Only the believers will be saved

[Andrew]

This post by LS in response to Shawn makes me fear that ET might be true because he felt a conviction that appears as only "the believers will be saved" and he has no doubt that Isreal are the believers.



Re: Lost coin and wide road
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2010, 06:19:25 PM »

Quote
Quote from: shawn on August 12, 2010, 10:47:48 AM
"I do understand your point.  But, in the following passage it appears to me that Israel and the Gentiles are being spoken of seperately here.

ROMANS 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 for this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (NKJV)

The highlighted verse supports that the verse is speaking of two seperate peoples.  And the verse goes on to say after speaking of both Gentiles and Israel that God will have mercy on all.  If Israel represents the body of believers the verses do not make sense to me."

Posted by LS

"Honestly, I think this entire chapter of Romans is telling us that neither jew nor gentiles are "above" or "beneath" the other - they are all now on equal footing. Look at the passages earlier in the chapter about cutting off and grafting in.  I think the passage you quoted is simply saying that the jews are no long "specially protected" as they once were, but are now part of the world, which is subject to "the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient." (Ephesians 2:2)  That passage is what comes to my mind when reading about the disobedient.

I don't know - the realization that "Israel" is believers is a conviction that the LORD gave to me and on that I have no doubt. But I'm less firm on some of the rest of this - I see UR believers using this passage to support their position, but fundamentalists who believe in the rapture also use it for an almost opposite purpose.  I find myself reading them with a bit of a spirit of opposition to either of those views, though I'm honestly trying to simply be open and see what Truth is in them, and let the Holy Spirit use it to shape what I believe.

I keep coming back to this: Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." and it seems to me that all of chapter 11, including the verses you quoted, are supporting that statement."

[jabcat]

LS believed in annihilation, so would be emphasizing ideas that she thought reinforced/made that case.  So as to not falsely accuse LS specifically, I'll just say that a common tactic of ET/annihilationists might also be to minimize or "explain away" verses that talk about Jesus saving all (ultimate reconciliation).

I think LS's logic is backwards.  I don't see the verse saying "Israel is just like everyone else now", but rather, the gentiles were also being given grace and being brought in.  One verse (I don't remember where) shows the Jews being amazed that Gentiles were also being filled with the Holy Spirit, and Paul basically said, yeah, they're in on this now too.

[jabcat]

Also, I believe only the believers will be saved;  but that all will believe.

"every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord..."

[Patinak]

Also, I believe only the believers will be saved;  but that all will believe.

"every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord..."

:iagree:

[WhiteWings]

Andrew,
Salvation is much bigger than you seem to think. Everyone that died before Jesus didn't believe in Him. So are David, Solomon, Job, Isaiah, etc doomed?
And what exactly are we being saved from? Hell? Death? Not being part of the Kingdom? Correction?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+12%3A44-50&version=ESV
Jesus came to save the world. That includes the parts where He never went.
He's Lord of the world. That's just Israel?


Hebrews 9: 27 And inasmuch as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, judgment,
---> The classic verse to prove there is no chance for salvation after death.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
---> Maybe they make fake confessions to escape hell?
---> That can only be true if the Holy Spirit inspires lies and fake confessions....

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed, and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, except by Holy Spirit.
---> That's very clear; all who kneel do so because the Holy Spirit dwells within them. So the kneeling is a genuine confession...
---> Note that this is also the case before death.
---> But maybe it's to late anyway?

Romans 10:9 that if thou will confess with thy mouth, Lord Jesus, and will believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou will be saved.
---> Short recap: Everyone will make a true confession and at that point they will be saved. Obviously mrs muslim and mr. satanist never confesed in this life. Yet they are part of "everyone".
---> Ergo there is a chance after death. Ergo salvation after death is a Holy Spirit enforced fact for those groups.

---> Finally all the above are unconditional statements. But if there is still doubt....
Isaiah 45: 23 By myself I have sworn, the word has gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue will confess to God.
https://tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?pretty;board=bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved;topic=hebrews-927-after-death-comes-judgement.msg122137#msg122137


Maybe this puts your mind at ease: http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html

[Eduard]

I\m with WhiteWings on this.  :thumbsup:  :iagree:

[marie glen]

I\m with WhiteWings on this.  :thumbsup:  :iagree:

Me too!

And also -

Also, I believe only the believers will be saved;  but that all will believe.

"every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord..."

Amen! :banana:

[chester-blowfold]

And in all interpretations of scripture, it has to be remembered that hell is mistranslated.

[marie glen]

And in all interpretations of scripture, it has to be remembered that hell is mistranslated.

   AMEN!! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

[FineLinen]

Also, I believe only the believers will be saved;  but that all will believe.

"every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord..."

Dear Jab: I behold God as the Saviour of all mankind, the radical all. But, & it is a large but indeed, God is the Saviour of the especially/ malista of His love & grace. These are those who believe/trust in Him in the present They are the elect, the first-fruits of the coming harvest, the malista of His sovereign Will.

Our Father cares for His creation.

Every common sparrow is important to Him because nothing is common to Him. Everything has a purpose in His wonderful Plan. The Master does glorious miracles that at the close has leftover remnants. Surely instead of having the remnants gathered up that nothing be lost, He could simply produce additional miracles with abundance?

That is NOT the Master Isous who has grasped us to Himself. He is the God of at-one-ment. He is the God of restoration!

Every bird, every broken & fallen child of Adam restored.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[darryl]

Also, I believe only the believers will be saved;  but that all will believe.

"every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord..."

yes....ALL WILL believe, ultimately.