YLTMatthew 7
13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Few find the path to heaven; many end in hell.
(thanks WW for contribution)
micah said;
This again begins at Matt. 5 and Jesus was speaking only to His disciples, not the multitude. And we must understand that all the words that Jesus spoke were parables. The Lord is so Good.
A parable; but of what? Many will say the meaning of the parable is ED or ET.
The fall of Jerusalem in 70AD and how the many statements and prophecies of Jesus and other New Testament writers relate to it is a lost teaching in this day and age. It is the cause of much doctrinal error and eschatological [end time doctrine] errors. The history of the fall of Jerusalem proves beyond doubt that those that rejected Christ, those that took the "wide gate" of conformity to the status quo, suffered horribly.
This same subject is discussed in Matt. 7:13, 14. "Enter in at the strait gate! Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction. There will be many that go that way. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads to life. Only a few will find it."
The language teaches that only a few walked in the narrow way marked out by Christ during that time. The many chose the broader way of wrong. If we relate these passages to the after life, we cannot escape the conclusion that heaven will only contain a few souls and the overwhelming majority will be perpetually burned. This conclusion would negate countless scriptures and make the devil more successful than Jesus the Christ. These passages have no reference to the future world whatsoever. They speak of the few who, in our Savior's day, went right while the overwhelming majority went wrong. While at first this may sound like I am putting a spin on this scripture - wait until you get the whole picture!
Students of scripture - learn this well! The Greek word for destruction used here and many other verses is a state that one can be saved from.
It important to understand that the word for 'destruction' [Greek 'apoleia'] in Matthew means destruction, waste or ruin. Believers in eternal burnings READ INTO words like this the meaning of hell fire and brimstone. Here are some other uses of the word:
Mat 26:7-8 and Mark 14:14, "a woman approached Him with an alabaster jar of very expensive fragrant oil. She poured it on His head as He was reclining at the table. When the disciples saw it, they were indignant. "Why this waste [destruction]?" they asked."
Acts 8:18-24, "Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money saying, "Give this authority to me as well so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish [be destroyed] with you because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have no part or portion in this matter for your heart is not right before God. Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity. But Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me yourselves so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."
As the example in Acts 8 makes clear, repentance is possible from a state of 'destruction.' Several other uses of this word show that a person can be delivered from, or repent of, a state of 'destruction'.
Acts 25:16, "To whom I answered, It is not the manner of the Romans to deliver any man to die [destruction], before the accused confronts the accusers face to face and be allowed to answer for himself concerning the alleged crime."
Clearly Acts 25 makes clear again that one can be in a state of 'destruction' and yet be delivered from it since a trial could result in a man's freedom. The language in Luke has a more special application to the Jews than that in Matthew. The verse in Matthew could be applied to every age since Christ. It is as true now as at the time Jesus spoke. The path of godliness is followed by a comparative few. The way of evil is broad and much traveled. People can be on the path to destruction and repent. Clearly, the word 'destruction' here doesn't mean eternal burnings.
Quote from: jabcat on November 28, 2010, 09:31:04 PM
YLTMatthew 7
13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Few find the path to heaven; many end in hell.
(thanks WW for contribution)
"Wide is the gate" (imperfection/sin) "leading to destruction" (non-life) and all are upon it. Until faith in Jesus. No one enters the narrow gate (life/reconciliation to God) except through faith in Jesus.
- No one hears the notorious words "those not believing will go to the second
death" (Revelation 20:15) until [1] they have experienced being resurrected (in the second resurrection, Revelation 20:12 as opposed to the first resurrection of 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and [2] they have experienced, witnessed and lived through a long day of the judgment of all things, all human history, etc, Revelation 20:12. Who, after all that, isn't going to believe?
Psalm 22:27 "All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD. And all families of the nations will worship before you."
Quote"Wide is the gate" (imperfection/sin) "leading to destruction" (non-life) and all are upon it. Until faith in Jesus. No one enters the narrow gate (life/reconciliation to God) except through faith in Jesus.
:thumbsup: narrow means straight - from the ROOT to STAND\set \ESTABLISH
Mat 25:33 And he shall
set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
HE is The GATE[of the Temple-]
And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him. :icon_flower:
How many do you now who truly have "zoe" life. Overcoming life. "Joy unspeakable and full of glory?" Peace that passes understanding. Not many. It is because Few are able to "enter through the narrow gate.....walk in the strait way". It is the "single eye". It is narrow because it is "only in Christ". As such it is the "eye of the needle". How many do you kno who are walking in "destruction", "chastisement", i.e. the fruit of their own works (we reap as we sow), sowing to the flesh, reaping "death/corruption"? Are they going to eternal hell? Let's hope not since so many of them are believers, babes in Christ, carnal, having seen Jesus but still living as if they had not. Is it grace? or is it law? It is the grace of God that teaches us to flee immorality, as Paul said. How does it teach us? By allowing us to reap the result of our carnality when we refuse the "easy yoke" and cling to the "wide path". "For the trial of your faith is more precious than gold tried in the fire". Unto whom was Jesus speaking in the parables. Unbelieving sinners? The evil ones of the world? Of course not, He spoke parables to those who believe so that seeing they might no see. So that they could reach the end of their natural understanding and become blind. Mysteries hidden from the foundation of the world. Mysteries hidden from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes. "Because you say you see your sin remains"! Make straight paths for your feet :o) Prepare ye the way of the Lord! Who is more blind than my servant!
The Eagle Soars!
:bigGrin:
:bigGrin:
:bigGrin: :bigGrin:
I've missed the majestic sight of the eagle.
:HeartThrob:
wow this is a great thread .. thanks Much to think about !!!
always seeing evil trying to destroy the Good
evil putting Jesus to the Cross but to the evils demise this Victory starts the process
we can have peace that the Lord saves us and put the guilt of sin away for good !! if you keep your eye"single eye". on Jesus , go and sin no more less a worse thing comes upon you
we learn well , just what good and evil is by exercising this choosing good and hating evil daily in our lives :icon_flower:
Amen
Quote from: eaglesway on June 03, 2011, 02:13:07 AM
How many do you now who truly have "zoe" life. Overcoming life. "Joy unspeakable and full of glory?" Peace that passes understanding. Not many. It is because Few are able to "enter through the narrow gate.....walk in the strait way". It is the "single eye". It is narrow because it is "only in Christ". As such it is the "eye of the needle". How many do you kno who are walking in "destruction", "chastisement", i.e. the fruit of their own works (we reap as we sow), sowing to the flesh, reaping "death/corruption"? Are they going to eternal hell? Let's hope not since so many of them are believers, babes in Christ, carnal, having seen Jesus but still living as if they had not. Is it grace? or is it law? It is the grace of God that teaches us to flee immorality, as Paul said. How does it teach us? By allowing us to reap the result of our carnality when we refuse the "easy yoke" and cling to the "wide path". "For the trial of your faith is more precious than gold tried in the fire". Unto whom was Jesus speaking in the parables. Unbelieving sinners? The evil ones of the world? Of course not, He spoke parables to those who believe so that seeing they might no see. So that they could reach the end of their natural understanding and become blind. Mysteries hidden from the foundation of the world. Mysteries hidden from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes. "Because you say you see your sin remains"! Make straight paths for your feet :o) Prepare ye the way of the Lord! Who is more blind than my servant!
Amen! Great word!
Thanks Lo :o)
Lukes account of the narrow way! Verse 29 says it all!
23 Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, 24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'
28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
The way is not so narrow any more!!!
The Gentiles will be first, and the Jews will be last!
Quote from: God Chaser on October 09, 2013, 08:25:28 AM
The way is not so narrow any more!!!
Why? My guess is that your answer is similar too: "Because of what Jesus did for us".
If so
QuoteThe Gentiles will be first, and the Jews will be last!
Why the Jews will be last? Surely Jesus was no respecter of persons. It must be a change in the Jewish heart and/or way of life. I can understand that. But after all Gentiles? Jews may have some wrong understandings but are much closer to the truth than for example gentile muslims....
:dontknow:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 09, 2013, 08:49:04 AM
Quote from: God Chaser on October 09, 2013, 08:25:28 AM
The way is not so narrow any more!!!
Why? My guess is that your answer is similar too: "Because of what Jesus did for us".
If so
QuoteThe Gentiles will be first, and the Jews will be last!
Why the Jews will be last? Surely Jesus was no respecter of persons. It must be a change in the Jewish heart and/or way of life. I can understand that. But after all Gentiles? Jews may have some wrong understandings but are much closer to the truth than for example gentile muslims....
:dontknow:
My first response... oh no, its my hero White Wing, Im not worthy! :notworthy: HeHe!
:Oops: I apologize for my miscommunication. I am in complete agreement that the parables are about the Jews who accepted Christ being able to flee the coming destruction in 70 AD, while those who chose the status quo suffered horribly.
What I am suggesting is that verse 29 "People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God" indicates that many worldwide will be saved, and leaves no doubt to me that these parables are not about a few Believers being saved, while the vast majority of mankind being hell bound!
Also Sorry, Gentiles is a bad choice of words! What I was also suggesting is that "people coming from E,W, N, S to take their places at the feast" are All the Believers coming from EVERYWHERE, taking the place of the Jews. And that Believers will now be first, and the Jews who were first will now be last, for rejecting Christ!
It never occurred to me to think about other unbelievers such as Atheists, Hindu's and Muslims, only for the same reason that the "narrow way" is not about mankind's salvation. It seems to me IMHO, that this feast is a reference to transitioning from old to new covenants!
:dontknow:
:laugh:
Somehow I think this verse is important. I just have no clue why....
"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'
Why doesn't He know where they came from? Why even mention it? The only thing that seems to matter is being no evil doer because people from all over earth are allowed at the table.
Quote29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God
So it seems to me it doesn't really matter where they came from but it's some sort of expression.
QuoteAlso Sorry, Gentiles is a bad choice of words! What I was also suggesting is that "people coming from E,W, N, S to take their places at the feast" are All the Believers coming from EVERYWHERE, taking the place of the Jews. And that Believers will now be first, and the Jews who were first will now be last, for rejecting Christ!
That's another odd thing I don't understand. Yes, Jews rejected Jesus and still do. But they love God and they love the promised land. Their muslim neighbors totally reject the God and prefer to nuke the Holy Land. Will they really go before the Jews?
You wrote "believers will now be first".
While true I think it's even more correct to say or add "only believers will enter".
Unconverted muslims will never enter. For the Jews to be last it means 100% of the rest of the world will become Christian before they do. If not either they are not last or not all will enter the Kingdom.
For the whole world to be converted something extremly powerful must happen. Sure we can say all sort of bad things about Jews but imo they most certainly aren't stupid and they do watch/search for the Messiah. If the whole world picks up the signs why not the Jews?
So 7x :dontknow: from me.
Brainstorming here.
The wedding banquet was always at the father's house. So it's safe to assume the mentioned feast is (symbollically) in Jerusalem
All (land of the) tribes was situated round Jerusalem/Temple. They are from the east, west, north and south. (Ignoring the tribes are 'lost')
Only the Levites had no land. So I'm wondering "all people" aren't the other tribes and the last one are the Levite/priest tribe?
:Chinscratch:
I thinkthe parableof the God Samaritanbears wittness to that WW.....preists levites
because they passed by the 'goodness' ofGod..that the Samaritan's didnot....also
I have heard the Samaritans were Israel that had been carriedoff..before..andreturned
of coarse I am of the mind that all that pertains untoIsrael has increased in scope.......
[the increaseof Hisgovernment] to include the whole world.........Allmen of All nations
Quote from: sheila on October 10, 2013, 05:02:42 PM
I have heard the Samaritans were Israel that had been carried off..before..andreturned
That's true. They got a lot of pagan stuff mixed into their Jewish belief. They were considered half-Jew at best.
yep...Jesus/God was/is their true husband........they be mny gods andmany lrds......
5 axis rulers when the ark of the covenant wentinto philstine country......
you have had 5...andthe man you have nowis not your husband
John 8;48....you Samaritans worship what ye know not
John4;39.
.....we have had many lords over us....I will remove the nameofthe baals/lords from
their lips...you willno longer call me Lord..but husband[the truehusband]
ONE TRUE GOD/HUSBND OF ISRAEL
Quote from: jabcat on November 28, 2010, 09:31:04 PM
YLTMatthew 7
13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Few find the path to heaven; many end in hell.
(thanks WW for contribution)
I believe that we can understand much of what Jesus said through the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Jesus didn't say that that small is the gate leading to heaven. He said "leading to life." The prodigal son went through the wide gate and was destroyed. When he repented, he returned to his father and his father said that his son was once LOST (apollumi - destroyed) and is found, and was once DEAD and is alive.
Sin is a wide gate because it's easy. If it was hard to sin, nobody would do it, and they would all be crowding the narrower gate. As it is, sin is a destructive force in our lives, when we abide fully in it, and it will lead to destruction for all who persist in it.
excellent!
I had a dream about this once, when I was about 12 or 13, and I didn't know that all would be saved.
I dreamed that there was a narrow path with a obstacle course and people were enjoying the course. Their clothes were very plain and blue course denim. The course seemed difficult but they were all enjoying it, seeming very happy and it seemed to lead upward.
The other path was very short and very wide and led slightly down into a cave. There was red light all around and inside the cave there was a big party going on. Everyone was dressed very nicely, tuxedos and gowns, and I got a sense of gaudiness and revelry. I did not get a sense of cooperation as in the other path, but just sense of static. Not going anywhere, pleasure without any real pleasure (if that makes sense). A party, but nobody seemed to be having fun.
It took me along time, actually until recently, to realize that this was not a dream about heaven and hell. The imagery had nothing to do with what one might associate with the traditional view of heaven as a luxury resort with gold streets and hell as a place of torture and screaming.
It was a dream about life and death, the son who left his father, vs the son who returned to his father.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :banana: :dsunny:
LOL
BTW, here is a scripture, going along with the Prodigal Son example that might help people understand more of what Jesus is talking about.
Job 31:9-12
If mine heart have been deceived by a woman, or if I have laid wait at my neighbour's door; Then let my wife grind unto another, and let others bow down upon her. For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges.
For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.
The "rooting out all mine increase" IS the destruction. Choose life that you not have such destruction.
Curse=kalal=to be diminished/despised/of little account/lightly esteemed/bring to contempt. -> God views you as you view Him
If we view him as evil, he will see us as evil. Only one of the two are correct in their judgment. For the carnal mind is emnity against God, fit for destruction.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 30, 2013, 07:29:32 PM
Curse=kalal=to be diminished/despised/of little account/lightly esteemed/bring to contempt. -> God views you as you view Him
So we mere humans change the viewpoint of Almighty God?
...as yejudge,soshall ye be judged...... :dontknow:..tothe pure yous how yourself pure
but tothe crooked you show yourselfshrewd.. Psalms 18;26
Quote from: shawn on October 31, 2013, 02:43:24 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 30, 2013, 07:29:32 PM
Curse=kalal=to be diminished/despised/of little account/lightly esteemed/bring to contempt. -> God views you as you view Him
So we mere humans change the viewpoint of Almighty God?
Yes.
As Sheila wrote be judged as you judge.
In the OT we quite often see God reacting on what people did.
When the Jews acted good, God was friendly. When the Jews kept obeying God stopped being friendly and put them into exile.
Of course those changes aren't just random but follow a set of rules (law/God's personality) determined even before creation.
Quote from: jabcat on November 28, 2010, 09:31:04 PM
YLTMatthew 7
13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Few find the path to heaven; many end in hell.
(thanks WW for contribution)
It means that those who concentrate on it and look for it will find the way to life. Suppose it depends whether your definition of 'life' is 'eternal life' or 'life of the right quality'.
The gates are the gates that lead to pasture. And 'eating' of the pastures (or of anything) in bible langauge is synonymous with taking in something of thought, some form of wisdom.
So those who enter the narrow gate eat of the right pastures, while those who go through the broad gate, eat the same as the same of them, who also go through the broad gate.
There's another reference to this in the Gospel of Thomas I think it is, when Jesus says that anybody who tries to jump the gate or climb the fence, (enter in my any other way than the right way) is surely a 'theif' and a 'robber'. It means that 'getting there by any means necessary' shouldn't be the motive. That's a selfish way to think. Rather, 'if I'm going to do it, I'm going to enter, I'm going to enter the way that it's supposed to be done' is the good way to think about it.
From the greek, I saw the verse like this;
'Come in through the 'closely defined' way, for broad is the gate that leads to ruin, and many are those who are entering through that way'.
Ie. lots of people are going the wrong path. Don't go the same path as them. Go through the closely defined path. Tread the path less trodden.
The point, for me, isn't so much about what happens after death, but about how to actually, actively 'walk' in the here and now.
Hello jabcat:
QuoteYLTMatthew 7
13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Few find the path to heaven; many end in hell.
Can that be said for all of us because we have all sinned and come short of the Glory of God? Is that not why we need a Savior? Is Jesus saving the man that is dead in trespasses and sins and is buried with Christ in his death or is Jesus saving the new man that comes out of death when Jesus awakens him to spiritual consciousness? It is the new man that rises with Jesus, the Christ, in his resurrection.
I contend that the old man never finds the strait gate because he is dead with Christ in his death. It is the new man in Christ, that comes through the strait gate when he rises with Christ when God awakens him from the dead. it is the new man with a heart of flesh that will hear and respond to Jesus :grin: call and hearken and obey the good news through the faith of God working through him which is from the Spirit of God who is outworking what Jesus has accomplished by atoning for the sins of the whole world in God's appointed times.
Col 1:14 in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
Col 1:18 And himself is the head of the body--the assembly--who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things --himself--first,
Col 1:19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself--having made peace through the blood of his cross--through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.
God bless you,
SeventhDay
It is notable that the two ends of the paths are "destruction/ruin/apoleian" and "life/zoen"
Few are living "in the life" of Christ, most are living in the "ruins" of the carnal/natura/flesh man
imo Jesus is talking about living in the spiritual reality of righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Spirit(the kingdom) versus walking in the flesh.
this post,where it referred to many men living in the ruins..reminded me of the demon possessed man the lived among the tombs
[ruins and carnality/corrupted flesh for sure] when the Lord asked the demon it's name ..it answered 'legion for we are many"
and so, I take heart in the POWER AND LOVE OF GOD IN CHRIST..to cast out the 'many' that have led man to such
desolation/destruction and death tombs..and the bringing of man into his right mind..through the redemption of Christ.