I've heard many ET believers use the verse that talks about God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways as a way to "explain" ET. Since no human would think of allowing a creature to suffer with no end. This is found in Isaiah 55:8,Isaiah 55:7 says He will abundantly pardon. Wow I find it very sad, but fascinating. ..God is much more loving and forgiving than any of us, not much more hateful and cold hearted. How can they get this so backward? It must be spirtual blindness, they cant see. Im not trying to put them down..I dont think they can help it. Im just trying to point it out how blinded we humans can be. :Pray:
I think people can be indoctrinated to believe anything. That's why people believe that stuff. I used to be one of them, but I found out the truth. Some of them have never heard the truth, and some don't believe it if they hear it because what you've been told your whole life is hard to give up. It kind of makes you feel foolish to think you've been believing a lie all your life, but I think most of us here have gone through that. I had to get a lot of information from a lot of sources backed up by an accurate translation of scripture before I finally believed it. If somebody is told a lie enough, they begin to believe it even if it doesn't make sense. That's sad but true. Governments and religions know this and use it to their advantage. I don't take either of those sources seriously. I think scripture is truth as crazy as that seems to some people. I mean, if you think about it, scripture does tell a pretty wild story, but what's the alternative? Do ya really think everything came from nothing, and your ancestors were monkeys? We were taught to believe evolution is fact in school even though it's just one guy's hypothesis that can't be tested in a lab and hasn't been proved, but the atheists are in control of the scientific establishment. So that lie is considered to be truth, and anybody who tries to produce evidence of God is shunned as a fool just as anybody who shows evidence that God is the savior of all mankind is seen as crazy by church folks because that's what they've been programmed to believe. Sometimes we have to exercise independent judgment and courage in life and decide to follow truth wherever it leads us even though we may be persecuted for that. It's worth it in the long run because the truth will set you free. There is true peace in knowing that your loved ones will not be tortured in fire forever. That makes you not really care about all the nonsense thrown at you from the hellfire folks. You just feel sorry for them, but I think we are supposed to try to help them understand the full scope of the evangel. That's all universal reconciliation really is, the evangel of God about all of creation not just an exclusive private club of deceived folks who believe their god is going to torture most of mankind in fire forever. I think the spirit of truth and the spirit of love are one and the same that we are supposed to let flow through us to our brothers and sisters who are still trapped by the deception as well as all the souls in the world who may not even know about Jesus Christ.
:cloud9: Exactly. Evolution is a perfect example of: everything points to the contrary, but lets not let the facts interfere with our opinion. :doh: :winkgrin:
I always joke with evolutionists with this thought. Since evolution happens SOOO slowly, then somewhere, somehow, someone in recorded history, must have caught something changing states; say like a lizard in the embarrassing :pointlaugh: last minute state of turning into a chicken at some point. You know, while it's trying to explain to the llizard missus why it's suddenly wearing a feather tutu and boa. :eeew: :winkgrin:
:Chinscratch: Of course, if there were no OTHER lizards changing into chickens at that locale at that same moment in time, then whoops, chickens just went extinct.
Oh well, better luck next century. :clock:
Sorry. Felt like a little levity this morning. Carry on. :URWelcome:
Quote from: Caffus on May 19, 2015, 04:42:32 PM
I've heard many ET believers use the verse that talks about God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways as a way to "explain" ET. Since no human would think of allowing a creature to suffer with no end. This is found in Isaiah 55:8,Isaiah 55:7 says He will abundantly pardon. Wow I find it very sad, but fascinating. ..God is much more loving and forgiving than any of us, not much more hateful and cold hearted. How can they get this so backward? It must be spirtual blindness, they cant see. Im not trying to put them down..I dont think they can help it. Im just trying to point it out how blinded we humans can be. :Pray:
His Ways are much Higher Caff
If you look at the pattern in the OLD testament , the law was not given at first , death reigned ...
Now think about what that really means , total darkness about God
Now God Gave the Law though Moses to expose sin by a shadow and light of the moon and cycles
Now we have Jesus the Light of the world and the grace and what do we see but the extremes
Every one sleeps in the dark
some slept by the light of the moon and some stars/messengers and prophets shined in the darkness
now all will be awakened by the Light of Christ
LOVE covers the multitude of sin /error , but like Paul said , we should not error in the Light
but yet we see HOW THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS TREATED , the gift of Love and great grace
What more can God do for mankind that he has not already done ?
Yes, I agree with them, God's thoughts are higher than ours. We cannot uderstand the greateness of the power of the sacrifice of Christ. We cannot see the inevitability of His love in transforming all. Our minds are too small- until He renews our minds :o0
But His ways are higher than our ways.
He doesnt use fire like we do, to destroy good things. He only uses it to transform darkness into light.
I'm into the "levity," sis, because I think the whole idea of evolution is a riot. They have no explanation for the Cambrian explosion when all these complex life forms suddenly appeared. That was Darwin's doubt for good reason. And Darwin didn't have modern microscopes to know that living cells are complex machinery created and controlled by information that is similar to computer programming but more complex. DNA only comes from DNA, but the best explanation that atheist evolutionists can come with about that is it must have come from space aliens without any explanation of where their DNA came from. Darwinism is just the religion of atheists that doesn't make sense. They claim it is scientific and believers are unscientific, but the more science discovers the more it shows there's an intelligent mind operating the universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fiJupfbSpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-1nXb5uH8Q
I think it's ridiculous to assume there's no intelligence involved in the creation and operation of the universe, but that's what we're taught to believe is fact in our schools. I think it's wise to forget about all the nonsense you were taught in school and church. Real science knows there was a beginning that had to have had a cause, and the universe is fine tuned for life on earth. That indicates some higher intelligence which the atheists prefer to think is space aliens rather than what believers call God. Everything is controlled by information in code, and code is only know to come from an intelligent mind. Where did the information that caused life to come into being and continue to exist come from?
I think we can truly say, by their own admission, the atheist evolutionist argument involves no intelligence.
I found a couple of vidclips that I was thinking about of the atheist poster boy talking about DNA and how it must have come from space aliens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF1UzhPA5N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-w26yhZ6M
I just saw this.
http://i.imgur.com/IXzxaAb.jpg
Yes, some people can be taught to believe almost anything. And some are blinded bu the teaching they were raised with, whatever it may be. And I know, it can be shocking and very humiliating to find out you've been believing a lie. I don't know about anyone else here, but I know I was blind, before He opened my eyes to the Truth. I was in pain and confused about the Bible and how it could all be true..with the ET doctrine in there. Gods not the author of confusion.
When He showed me the truth I was in awe and humbled by the vastness of His unfailing love and mercy. I feel so much more trust and love for God now and more love for others as well. The Bible , I trust it is true now and it makes so much more sense without ET doctrine in it. :cloud9:
:cloud9: @ Tom. I know, the carnal mind truly is insane by God's standards of truth, isn't it? No wonder it says let every man be a liar. My :2c: Blessings....
Isaiah 55:8 is the verse often used out of context in defense of ET doctrine. I've fallen for it myself having heard the verse Gods ways are not our ways...and so although we can't comprehend how ET can be just , we aren't God so we just have to accept it. But if we read the whole chapter Isaiah 55..it is clear, it's speaking of Gods unimaginable compassion. I was just shocked when I read the chapter I even did a search to see if there was another veres in the Bible ET believers might have been referring to, but no...this is it. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Caffus on May 20, 2015, 05:34:11 PM
Isaiah 55:8 is the verse often used out of context in defense of ET doctrine. I've fallen for it myself having heard the verse Gods ways are not our ways...and so although we can't comprehend how ET can be just , we aren't God so we just have to accept it. But if we read the whole chapter Isaiah 55..it is clear, it's speaking of Gods unimaginable compassion. I was just shocked when I read the chapter I even did a search to see if there was another veres in the Bible ET believers might have been referring to, but no...this is it. :HeartThrob:
Yes Caffus , I love that part too !! His mercy endures , but his wrath is only for a moment Psalms 30 the Key of DAVID is mercy
I will Extol You, O Lord
...4Sing praise to the LORD, you His godly ones, And give thanks to His holy name.
5For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for a lifetime;
Weeping may last for the night, But a shout of joy comes in the morning.
6Now as for me, I said in my prosperity, "I will never be moved."...
When the bible first opened for me it was in Isaiah 4 and 5 !! It breathed life into my dry bones and flash of light of wow. this is new and alive , they call it a quickening of How the Life giving Spirit of Christ seed is made alive in you , I believe by starting to open the seals of the BOOK
http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2227&t=KJV
Yes...I just love to praise Him now. Love listening to worship music :dsunny:
Quote from: Caffus on May 19, 2015, 04:42:32 PM
I've heard many ET believers use the verse that talks about God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways as a way to "explain" ET. ...
Ok... I haven't explained in any detail how I arrived at the paraphrases, but here goes. This is how I read the second layer of scripture to evaluate if it has anything to do with UR or not.
Quote1 ¶ Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
You who are without the word, come to the word. if you have not the Son of Man, break him and eat his body (meditate upon it). Buy heavenly and earthly grace without silver because no one is asking. This riddle uses three different meanings for buy.
Simply come.
Quote2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
Why do you spend money for that which is not the body of Christ? and your labor for that which is not fish (the word of God)? Listen to me and think on the Kingdom of Heaven (the good things coming Heb 10:1) and let your soul delight in the incarnate Son of God.
Quote3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
Hear my voice (though you don't understand) and come to me; and your soul shall live. and I will make an everlasting covenant with you , even the sure mercies of my beloived.
From this we discern that the sheep hear his voice, and come to him. But who hears the voice of God? The trumpet call? Don't all men hear the final revelation of God?
Quote4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people
.
Christ was given to reveal the Father to the people, and make him a leader and commander. (He guides us in the flesh and spirit... he is Lord).
Quote5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
He shall call a people who is not the bride, and people who are not the bride shall be quicken in life in thee because of the Lord your God, and for Christ; for Christ has glorified you.
This is suggestive that there is a bride and those who are called who are not the bride. I don't understand it yet.
Quote6 ¶ Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Seek him ToDay.
Quote7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Prepare the way of the Lord by repentance, and return to the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him and abundantly pardon.
How does one 'return' to the Lord? It is implied that he was once with the Lord. When was this? Paul has correctly deduced from this an/or other such passages, that he was once alive without the law, and then the law came and he died.
Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Who returns to the Lord?
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
This does not distinguish between good and bad spirits of men. The spirit of man SHALL return to the Lord.
Quote8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For my purposes and works are not your purposes and works. He has made us gods of the earth, giving us what we want and allowing us to wallow in the pain and suffering we cause. (Ro 1:18ff) Our way is not the Lord's way.
Quote9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the New Teaching of Peace is more exalted than the teachings of the world, so are my works and purposes more exalted.
Quote10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
For as the earthly and heavenly grace come down from heaven and are not retracted, but teaches the world and and is fruitful and multiplying, it gives children to Christ, and grace (the body of Christ) to the one who meditates upon it.
Quote11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Quote12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
You shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace (from the New Jerusalem, the new teaching of peace): the place you meet God will break forth in singing, and all the men of the harvest field will hang (put to death) their own works.
QuoteIsa 55:13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign [that] shall not be cut off.
Out of the cross shall come up the Son of God distinguished by his fruitfulness, and instead of the cares of the world shall come up the hearing of the Word completed in the spirit. And it shall become the reputation of the Lord that the fruit of the cross will remain.
Yeah, I know it sounds crazy. But I have replaced words with metaphor and replaced words with correlated ideas from other scripture. If you don't see the connections, I am happy to answer it.
Does Isa 55 teach eternal damnation? No. It has several hints of UR.
Thank you..I know it does and pray for those who take Isaiah 55:8 out of context to excuse ET :HeartThrob:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreTheBrideAndBodyIdentical0.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreWeTheBrideOfTheLamb.html
JOHN10 :dsunny:
JESUS HAS COME THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE AN ABUNDANT LIFE IN HIM NOW !!!
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep....
JESUS IS the mercy and grace of God in the love manifested to us
We walk by faith in the Spirit of truth and Life in what He has done for us :HeartThrob: