30 Therefore, each according to his ways I judge you, O house of Israel? An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, Turn ye back, yea, turn yourselves back, From all your transgressions, And iniquity is not to you for a stumbling-block,
31 Cast from off you all your transgressions, By which ye have transgressed, And make to you a new heart, and a new spirit, And why do ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And turn ye back and live!
...Suggests that our free will really is respected by God- That if we choose to do wrong, we will 'die' and it will be our own faults. How can we reconcile this with ideas that God's will will overrule ours? I truly do want to believe in Christian Universalism, but I keep coming to stumbling blocks like these in my own study of the Bible. What do you guys think?
MAN MUST LIVE...by every word that comes from GOD.
Ezekiel 36;26,27And'I" WILL PUTMY SPIRITIN YOU AND MOVE YOU TO FOLLOW MY DECREES
AND 'I" WILL GIVE YOU A NEW HEART[canwe sayanewcreature/creation]
EZEKIEL 37;14I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT IN YOU AND YOU WILL LIVE,AND I WILL SETTLE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND
'THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I THE LORD HAVE SPOKEN,
"
AND I HAVE DONE IT, declares the LORD.
haven't seen a man yet put a new spirit in himself or a new heart.BUT...I have seen those who ask God for Holy spirit receive it.
Isaaih 46;1Bel bows down,Nebo stoops low; their idols are borne by beasts o f burden
THE IMAGES THATARE CARRIED ABOUT ARE BURDENSOME...A BURDEN FOR THE WEARY
THEY STOOP AND BOW DOWN TOGATHER; UNABLE TO RESCUE THE BURDEN,
THEY THEMSELVES GO OFF INTO CAPTIVITY
NO FLESH SHALLBOAST....AND GOD ALONE WILL BE EXALTED IN THAT DAY
v3-4LISTEN TOME,ALL YOU WHO REMAINOF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
YOU WHOM I HAVE UPHELD SINCE YOU WERE CONCEIVED.AND HAVE CARRIED SINCE YOUR BIRTH
EVEN TO YOUR OLD AGE AND GRAY HAIRSI AM HIM,I AM HE WHO WILL SUSTAIN YOU
I HAVE MADE YOU AND I WILL CARRY YOU;
I WILL SUSTAIN YOU AND I WILL RESCUE YOU
clue...idols are works of mens hands that they carry as a false image of God and bow down to ....
THE TRUE GOD MAKES ,SUSTAINS AND CARRIES HIS PEOPLE
Quote from: sheila on July 11, 2019, 11:59:33 PM
MAN MUST LIVE...by every word that comes from GOD.
Ezekiel 36;26,27And'I" WILL PUTMY SPIRITIN YOU AND MOVE YOU TO FOLLOW MY DECREES
AND 'I" WILL GIVE YOU A NEW HEART[canwe sayanewcreature/creation]
EZEKIEL 37;14I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT IN YOU AND YOU WILL LIVE,AND I WILL SETTLE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND
'THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I THE LORD HAVE SPOKEN,
"
AND I HAVE DONE IT, declares the LORD.
haven't seen a man yet put a new spirit in himself or a new heart.BUT...I have seen those who ask God for Holy spirit receive it.
Isaaih 46;1Bel bows down,Nebo stoops low; their idols are borne by beasts o f burden
THE IMAGES THATARE CARRIED ABOUT ARE BURDENSOME...A BURDEN FOR THE WEARY
THEY STOOP AND BOW DOWN TOGATHER; UNABLE TO RESCUE THE BURDEN,
THEY THEMSELVES GO OFF INTO CAPTIVITY
NO FLESH SHALLBOAST....AND GOD ALONE WILL BE EXALTED IN THAT DAY
v3-4LISTEN TOME,ALL YOU WHO REMAINOF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
YOU WHOM I HAVE UPHELD SINCE YOU WERE CONCEIVED.AND HAVE CARRIED SINCE YOUR BIRTH
EVEN TO YOUR OLD AGE AND GRAY HAIRSI AM HIM,I AM HE WHO WILL SUSTAIN YOU
I HAVE MADE YOU AND I WILL CARRY YOU;
I WILL SUSTAIN YOU AND I WILL RESCUE YOU
clue...idols are works of mens hands that they carry as a false image of God and bow down to ....
THE TRUE GOD MAKES ,SUSTAINS AND CARRIES HIS PEOPLE
I'm sorry, I don't see how this is relevant to what I asked?
Quote from: staranthology on July 11, 2019, 09:28:14 PM
30 Therefore, each according to his ways I judge you, O house of Israel? An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, Turn ye back, yea, turn yourselves back, From all your transgressions, And iniquity is not to you for a stumbling-block,
31 Cast from off you all your transgressions, By which ye have transgressed, And make to you a new heart, and a new spirit, And why do ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And turn ye back and live!
...Suggests that our free will really is respected by God- That if we choose to do wrong, we will 'die' and it will be our own faults. How can we reconcile this with ideas that God's will will overrule ours? I truly do want to believe in Christian Universalism, but I keep coming to stumbling blocks like these in my own study of the Bible. What do you guys think?
At the risk of repeating myself :laugh: I'd say OT consequences were often/mostly temporal/earthly..of the age.
I also believe we indeed are required to make choices and we do have a will. It's just that what God wills wins out in the end. I believe He can create and/or allow circumstances that will eventually break/reshape our will, so that we will eventually bow and confess Jesus as Lord - gladly. Once we truly and more fully realize who He is. And that all will eventually find themselves gladly trusting in Jesus as Savior.
GOD HAS MADE A CHOICE!!!!He bound up all men in disobedience..in order to have mercy on all.
Why do you keep choosing death over the free gift of eternal life? I have seen his ways,but I will heal him IT is our own iniquity that
stumbles us..............and God's equity that frees us
FOR THE CREATURE WAS SUBJECTED TO VANITY,NOT OF IT'S OWN WILL.BUT BY HE WHO SUBJECTED IT.........
IN ORDER THAT THE WHOLE CREATION BE SET FREE INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE SONS OF GOD
GOD subjected it....God will free it.GOD IS EQUITABLE.
Isaaih 57;18
Isaaih 47;6I was angry with my people and polluted my inheritance....I gave them into your hand...andyou showed them no mercy
Isaaih 57;16I will not accuse forever,nor will I always be angry,for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me. The breath
of man that I have created. I was enraged by his sinful greed,I punished him and hid my face in anger..YET HE KEPT ON IN HIS
WILLFUL WAYS. I HAVE SEEN HIS WAYS.....BUT I WILL HEAL HIM. :2c:
Quote..Suggests that our free will really is respected by God- That if we choose to do wrong, we will 'die' and it will be our own faults. How can we reconcile this with ideas that God's will will overrule ours? I truly do want to believe in Christian Universalism, but I keep coming to stumbling blocks like these in my own study of the Bible. What do you guys think?
for me , I think it is a battle of our own carnal reasoning against the Spirit of life
It is normal to fear the unknown and to doubt .
we begin as babes in Christ , it is the devils desire to devour you as soon as you are born again of Spirit [Rev12] JESUS CHRIST IS OUR PRIME EXAMPLE but could not !!!!! and so it the work of God IS made known and revealed to us whom believe also and no not deny the power of GOD .
9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan,
who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
. 16 But
the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
Do you see the earth is where the trouble is coming from ? by swallowing up the flood of lies and sin is present in all of us , even Paul explained this in romans 7 as the sin /evil in himself still present and yet he knew with the mind of Christ , the Light of the knowledge of God he would prevail though Jesus Christ whom strengthens him , same for us , when you read Romans 8 we see the victory in our Lord Jesus Christ as the victor and no longer grieving Jesus , but has gained that which was lost , namely Paul whom as a pharisee thought he was doing God a service by killing the new born babes in Christ , because JESUS said to Paul / Saul , the new name given from the old name , was made new in JESUS as small or little as greater than Saul whom was asked or inquired name meaning
names have meanings , to me it is the hidden manna , or messengers food to eat and be strengthened from to become a better spiritual believer . and less carnal in nature , because the carnal nature is a true enemy against the Spirit of truth and life . the carnal mind is a death sentence and know nothing of GOD as the ought ..
We do harden our hearts against the truth and grieve the HOLY SPIRIT , not willingly
but all are subjected to the vanity of this life .
Romans 8 Future Glory
...19The
creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20
For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope
21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
the Children of God are the children of the Day and the Light and obey the gospel of JESUS CHRIST and belong to him
they are no longer rebellious against the truth but are as joined already and reconciling the LORD JESUS CHRIST with the world , it is the greater works the LORD speaks of in righteousness and Paul declares in 2 Cor 5
...18
All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them.
And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ
: Be reconciled to God.... the simplicity in Christ is amazing when you begin to see JESUS IN THE TRUE LIGHT OF THE WORLD .
God bless you and keep you bro .
QuoteJesus , but has gained that which was lost , namely Paul whom as a pharisee thought he was doing God a service by killing the new born babes in Christ , because JESUS said to Paul / Saul , the new name given from the old name , was made new in JESUS as small or little as greater than Saul whom was asked or inquired name meaning
Saul was not given a new name of 'Paul' from Jesus... Jesus refers to him as "Saul, Saul". He is only referred to as Paul after he sets off on his missionary journeys away from Jerusalem, at the request of Luke- Saul was Paul's Hebrew name, and Paul is his Greek name. He's referred to as Paul after he journeys away from Jerusalem likely to be more appealing to the Gentiles. All things to all men.
Quote2 Cor 5
...18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them.
And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God....
...Implies that we are not automatically reconciled to God.
the simplicity in Christ is amazing when you begin to see JESUS IN THE TRUE LIGHT OF THE WORLD .
God bless you and keep you bro .
[/quote]
Quote from: staranthology on July 12, 2019, 08:13:28 PM
QuoteJesus , but has gained that which was lost , namely Paul whom as a pharisee thought he was doing God a service by killing the new born babes in Christ , because JESUS said to Paul / Saul , the new name given from the old name , was made new in JESUS as small or little as greater than Saul whom was asked or inquired name meaning
Saul was not given a new name of 'Paul' from Jesus... Jesus refers to him as "Saul, Saul". He is only referred to as Paul after he sets off on his missionary journeys away from Jerusalem, at the request of Luke- Saul was Paul's Hebrew name, and Paul is his Greek name. He's referred to as Paul after he journeys away from Jerusalem likely to be more appealing to the Gentiles. All things to all men.
Quote2 Cor 5
...18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them.
And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God....
...Implies that we are not automatically reconciled to God.
the simplicity in Christ is amazing when you begin to see JESUS IN THE TRUE LIGHT OF THE WORLD .
God bless you and keep you bro .
[/quote]
THE NAME PAUL GIVEN FORMERLY SAUL THANKS !!! you are right about that , but it is prophecy in my opinion,,, a new heart and new name ....
Later, in a vision to Ananias of Damascus, "the Lord" referred to him as "Saul, of Tarsus". When Ananias came to restore his sight, he called him "Brother Saul". In Acts 13:9, Saul is called "Paul" for the first time on the island of Cyprus—much later than the time of his conversion.
Quote.Implies that we are not automatically reconciled to God.
again right about that
but consider this please if you would .
before the law , I see this as anyone of us in Adam all die , we are all Adam before in Christ right ? [ examples are in scripture ]
romans 5 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to
all men, because all sinned. 13For sin was in the world before the Law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come....
just somthing to consider please ...
in Christ all shall be made alive 1 Cor 15 The Order of Resurrection
...21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him....
Quote from: staranthology on July 11, 2019, 09:28:14 PM
30 Therefore, each according to his ways I judge you, O house of Israel? An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, Turn ye back, yea, turn yourselves back, From all your transgressions, And iniquity is not to you for a stumbling-block,
31 Cast from off you all your transgressions, By which ye have transgressed, And make to you a new heart, and a new spirit, And why do ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And turn ye back and live!
...Suggests that our free will really is respected by God- That if we choose to do wrong, we will 'die' and it will be our own faults. How can we reconcile this with ideas that God's will will overrule ours? I truly do want to believe in Christian Universalism, but I keep coming to stumbling blocks like these in my own study of the Bible. What do you guys think?
But we all do die.. And then... there is resurrection.. testified to or revealed by the resurrection of Jesus. The key, to me is to keep reading, especially our special "loaf' the New Testament.. rather a thin volume, but as we know, wow, so packed!
This is a great list, if no one has posted it - https://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/77-ultimate-reconciliation-scriptures/msg215115/#msg215115 - 77 Universal Reconciliation verses
Yet the very real potential of course, is if someone were to never (ever) repent, etc. oR, if none of us did :faint: they/we would actually perish. But Jesus said He will draw ALL to Himself - Jn.12:32. [And the word is "perish" not "go to hell and live forever". :gsmile: ]
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." 33 He said this to indicate the kind of death He was going to die....And as we know He did die "lifted up" upon a crucifixion cross (or stake as some say).. He didn't say "some" but all.. See there's all the techings/doctrines, which train us to think a certain way.. and then by that 'enchantment" or whatever.. we can read verses like that.. read straight forward verses saying something, but group interpretation and, or personal opinion makes us believe the opposite of what God's Word - Logos - "reason expressed via words" actually says, and then folks contradict God's reasoning and words, and think they are serving Truth.. It's really kind of weird! Lol. The fruit of hell? And a semi powerful 'god' preached? Atheism.
But! From Ephesians 1 -
9 And He has made known to us - the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, 10 as a plan, for the fullness of time, to bring ALL things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. And more very good verses - https://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/77-ultimate-reconciliation-scriptures/msg215115/#msg215115 - 77 Universal Reconciliation verses
It's a struggle working our way out and into the refreshing Truth, but as we know, so well worth it! God bless! :girlheart:
Quote from: staranthology on July 12, 2019, 08:13:28 PM
...Implies that we are not automatically reconciled to God.
Amen.. all are "drawn" and will thus repent.. believe, be salted with fire (whether now, or "Day Of Atonement") and "the seed" Jesus will be brought to maturity in all.. By the work of God's Spirit. --- Philippians 1:6 -
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..Quote from: jabcat on July 12, 2019, 05:00:39 AM
At the risk of repeating myself :laugh: I'd say OT consequences were often/mostly temporal/earthly..of the age.
I also believe we indeed are required to make choices and we do have a will. It's just that what God wills wins out in the end. I believe He can create and/or allow circumstances that will eventually break/reshape our will, so that we will eventually bow and confess Jesus as Lord - gladly. Once we truly and more fully realize who He is. And that all will eventually find themselves gladly trusting in Jesus as Savior.
:iagree: :iagree: