Tentmaker Forum

Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation => Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved => Topic started by: marie glen on February 08, 2018, 07:13:00 PM

Title: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: marie glen on February 08, 2018, 07:13:00 PM
Acts 3:23 -
And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.

?

Most verses like this, I believe, are easily explained by knowing that difference between aion, etc, and 'forever'.. And some of course, is in the Greek in other ways.

But this one, I'm wondering if it might not be that it is truly the very real potential. In the 'end' if there's a soul (psyche) "who will not hear that Prophet" they shall indeed "be utterly destroyed from among the people".

But! ....All will come to believe and "hear".. Once one is free to take into account all pertaining scriptures and the overall BiG picture, this seems to be the logical meaning. My :2c:
    :Peace2:
Title: Re: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: WhiteWings on February 08, 2018, 08:11:13 PM
Luke 15:8
Check out the Greek word for 'lose'.


More destruction:
http://tentmaker.org/forum/welcome-central/sceptic-about-ur/msg167763/#msg167763


Title: Re: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: sheila on February 08, 2018, 08:53:50 PM
HiMarie...I read it as Moses words to the law covenant people.....and  their coming Messiah.Cut off from the peoples/as a nation... :2c:



Title: Re: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: JamesH on February 18, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
The Greek word for utterly destroyed is ἐξολοθρεύω which only occurs once in the NT(and a few times in the LXX)and that's in this verse. It either means utterly destroyed,completely cut off or rooted out. We know that universalism is true and annihilation is false so we have to look at context.

We can eliminate utterly destroyed as a definition. So completely cut off and rooted out seem to fit better. Now we look at ψυχή which means soul,life,person,etc. We can translate it like this:

'And it will be that every soul/life/person that does not heed that prophet shall be cut off/rooted out from among the people.' Also this a quotation from Deut 18:15,18-19

The question is who is "that prophet". That prophet is Moses mentioned in Acts 3:22. Here is one commentary about the passage:

Albert Barnes-To be destroyed from among the people means, however, to be excommunicated, or to be deprived of the privileges of a people.

Here is some passages from the OT in the LXX related to ἐξολοθρεύω:

Genesis 17:14- "But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."

LXX-καί ἀπερίτμητος ἄρσην ὅς οὐ περιτέμνω ὁ σάρξ ὁ ἀκροβυστία αὐτός ὁ ἡμέρα ὁ ὄγδοος ἐκὀλεθρεύω ὁ ψυχή ἐκεῖνος ἐκ ὁ γένος αὐτός ὅτι ὁ διαθήκη ἐγώ διασκεδάζω

Leviticus 23:29-"If there is any person who will not humble himself on this same day, he shall be cut off from his people.

LXX-πᾶς ψυχή ὅστις μή ταπεινόω ἐν αὐτός ὁ ἡμέρα οὗτος ἐκὀλεθρεύω ἐκ ὁ λαός αὐτός
Title: Re: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: MHz on February 19, 2018, 04:23:34 PM
I find you can also determine what a word means you looking at the other passages that are about the same subject.

Since all prophets except the two witnesses are from the 12 Tribes I'll leave the Church out of this post.

At the end of the Gospel the 12 Tribes had believers in Jesus and those who did not believe He was the Messiah. The members that reject the NT would not get the same protection as the 144,000 because that number is how this prophecy is fulfilled. Prayers would mean you believe in the NT teachings as that is where the words to the prayer you have to say is found. Same one Daniel used and he was protected from physical harm more than once.

De:4:26-31:
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day,
that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it;
ye shall not prolong your days upon it,
but shall utterly be destroyed.
And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations,
and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,

whither the LORD shall lead you.
And there ye shall serve gods,
the work of men's hands, wood and stone,
which neither see,
nor hear,
nor eat,
nor smell.
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;)
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget thee.

Eze:39:23:
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity:
because they trespassed against me,
therefore hid I my face from them,
and gave them into the hand of their enemies:
so fell they all by the sword.

Eze:39:24:
According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them,
and hid my face from them.

Re:20:4:
And I saw thrones,
and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,
or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Title: Re: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: darryl on February 28, 2018, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: marie glen on February 08, 2018, 07:13:00 PM
Acts 3:23 -
And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.

?

Most verses like this, I believe, are easily explained by knowing that difference between aion, etc, and 'forever'.. And some of course, is in the Greek in other ways.

But this one, I'm wondering if it might not be that it is truly the very real potential. In the 'end' if there's a soul (psyche) "who will not hear that Prophet" they shall indeed "be utterly destroyed from among the people".

But! ....All will come to believe and "hear".. Once one is free to take into account all pertaining scriptures and the overall BiG picture, this seems to be the logical meaning. My :2c:
    :Peace2:

:banana: :dsunny: :thumbsup: :iagree:
Title: Re: Acts 2:23 -
Post by: eaglesway on February 28, 2018, 07:26:55 AM
James, I agree with and appreciate your synopsis. I think it could easily be compared with John 15:6

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.