Is there a verse in the Bible that straightly denies 1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
If not, how is it that religion's theologians of varying denominations, decided to interpret and sell the idea of an eternal torment of fire for those not included in ALL men?
Further, Paul writes, Php 2:9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow--of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth--
Php 2:11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Are not the words ALL and EVERY synonymous?
And to back that up, 1Co 12:3 Wherefore I make known unto you, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit.
And NO MAN, certainly is included when defining ALL and EVERY.
I know I may be preaching to the choir, but it is amazing to me how the "christian" religion has found so many verses in the Bible that are interpreted with a negative, to the Good News that Jesus Is the Savior of the world(kosmos).
1Jn 2:2 and He is an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
God opens up the meaning of scripture to those He wills.
Popular versions of the Bible contain serious errors, perhaps the worst is the use of hell and its supposed meaning.
Many preachers/theologians hang their belief on Mat 25:46 and teach men (sheeple) so.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
( SO VERY WRONG)
It is frustrating to some of us (the choir) to have so few realize the truth revealed to us by God from scripture.
The whole problem here is that the Bible, the Gospel, the church, and most Christians, are double-minded. Let me explain. Most Bibles contain verses supporting ET, ED, and UR. Is that not so? Yes, less-than-accurate versions have been used to support each position, and I should know, having been brought up in an ET church, having been a member of an ED denomination, and finally having received the truth of UR. Same with the Gospel, as most folks recognize that Jesus is the Savior of the World, yet think He will relegate most to Hell. Good news? They never seem to perceive the disconnect do they? :punish: Aargh! How do you ever open up the strongholds (and they even preach about spiritual strongholds) in order to remove the KJV and its Hell doctrine off its pedestal?
I have done a study on the word PUNISHMENT and have posted it here somewhere :dontknow:
Basically, the Greek word used for punishment is also used as follows: Correction, pruning, loping:
Eternal means NEVER AGAIN. because there is no TIME in eternity, as Father is outside of time; all of the Universe cannot contain Him as He contains it. :HeartThrob:
So the correction will be most like be done in the twinkling of an eye; but I would not think long in any case as fire, consumes quickly as it is used in the following metaphor.
1Cr 3:11. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Paul clearly states that though this person, loses everything, this person will be saved as if by fire.
What fire?
Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.
With all of this being understood and laid to rest, one can find complete peace and solace in the Scripture you quoted Micah, as well as the following:
Romans 5:18-21 (Darby)
18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous. 20 But law came in, in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace has overabounded, 21 in order that, even as sin has reigned in the power of death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is not one in Adam that will not be made alive in Christ. It is a perfectly balanced statement which Jesus said was already set in motion. "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (drag in Greek) all mankind unto Myself. (John 12:32, NKJV)
Yes Father WILL have all saved! :dsunny:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 27, 2013, 05:34:06 PM
Is there a verse in the Bible that straightly denies 1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
If not, how is it that religion's theologians of varying denominations, decided to interpret and sell the idea of an eternal torment of fire for those not included in ALL men?
Further, Paul writes, Php 2:9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow--of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth--
Php 2:11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Are not the words ALL and EVERY synonymous?
And to back that up, 1Co 12:3 Wherefore I make known unto you, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit.
And NO MAN, certainly is included when defining ALL and EVERY.
I know I may be preaching to the choir, but it is amazing to me how the "christian" religion has found so many verses in the Bible that are interpreted with a negative, to the Good News that Jesus Is the Savior of the world(kosmos).
1Jn 2:2 and He is an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Jesus told the religionists of His day, "Is not this where you wander out of the way and go wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?" Mk 12:24
So it was then, so it is still today.
So there is no verse to deny I Tim. 2:4 would that be correct? :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 28, 2013, 02:58:37 PM
So there is no verse to deny I Tim. 2:4 would that be correct? :dsunny:
When taken in context, there is nothing that can deny 1 Tim 2:4
What is the "context?" LOVE :HeartThrob: . When Scripture is read with LOVE being replaced with ANGER, VENGEANCE, HATRED, etc then words lose their intended message. But when Scripture is read with the Following in mind, one finds the ENTIRE scripture supports UR.
1 Corinthians 13:4-8
New International Version (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Wonderful isn't it? :dsunny:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Philosophically and spiritually, yes, the context is love :o)
But in the case of those who "stand on the word of God" (not)
there is no verse that denies 1 Tim 2:4, or 1 Corinthians 15:22, or Colossians 1:19,20 or so many other verses, that in the context of the "word" conclusively reveal the salvation of all. :o0
:dsunny: :iagree: So basiclly the christian religion deny's the love of the Father. It(christians) fight tooth and nail to not allow those may or do read the Bible and find 1 Tim. 2:3-4 to make them as heretics.
As well with the other verses EW mentions, "there is no verse that denies 1 Tim 2:4, or 1 Corinthians 15:22, or Colossians 1:19,20 or so many other verses, that in the context of the "word" conclusively reveal the salvation of all."
It is the default denial of ignorance in some. It is the willful denial of religious ambition in others. I am glad Father will sort that out, but i the meantime I will bear witness freely that there is only one full gospel.......it is the revelation of Jesus the Savior of All.
Sure seems to me that Jesus said "Upon this rock i will build my ecclesia and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." Well, if most of humanity winds up "burning in hell" forever, I guess that makes Jesus a delusional dreamer or a liar.
:dsunny:
... :Chinscratch: I'm thinking that's what a strong hold is.. something so very strongly held.. there are things deeply held in the psyche of man(kind), the first being "surely.. you won't.. die?" which has turned death and dust to dust into but another form of life.. logical?
And to me, a biG key to the Bible and scriptures, is logic.. so how can death be life? how can love torture forever, or even for a time? not logical.. and how does all not mean all? ..not logical..
I think there's a group thing that goes on (in the pysche of mankind, kind of a pack mentality).. and with ET and ED, perhaps there's something within mankind that doesn't wAnt "all" to be saved/rescued/redeemed/reconciled.. so when the doctrine presented itself, it's like a magnet, and ends up with a deadly, death defying hold (puns intended)
And, as we know God chooses to enlighten some and others, not right now.. I'm sure He makes every choice He makes (such as some saved during this life, and some not) in order to bring about the very best of all possibilities, because He, of course, can only be perfect.. (Utter Perfection) so the 'end' result can only be the utterly best one possible.
There must be concrete very logical reason why some are chosen to be reconciled during this life, and some not yet reconciled.. a very good reason. Surely? :smile:
Quote from: marie glen on January 02, 2014, 08:37:56 PM
... :Chinscratch: I'm thinking that's what a strong hold is.. something so very strongly held.. there are things deeply held in the psyche of man(kind), the first being "surely.. you won't.. die?" which has turned death and dust to dust into but another form of life.. logical?
And to me, a biG key to the Bible and scriptures, is logic.. so how can death be life? how can love torture forever, or even for a time? not logical.. and how does all not mean all? ..not logical..
I think there's a group thing that goes on (in the pysche of mankind, kind of a pack mentality).. and with ET and ED, perhaps there's something within mankind that doesn't wAnt "all" to be saved/rescued/redeemed/reconciled.. so when the doctrine presented itself, it's like a magnet, and ends up with a deadly, death defying hold (puns intended)
And, as we know God chooses to enlighten some and others, not right now.. I'm sure He makes every choice He makes (such as some saved during this life, and some not) in order to bring about the very best of all possibilities, because He, of course, can only be perfect.. (Utter Perfection) so the 'end' result can only be the utterly best one possible.
There must be concrete very logical reason why some are chosen to be reconciled during this life, and some not yet reconciled.. a very good reason. Surely? :smile:
Good observations. I read a secular article recently that describes how the subconscious brain will actually cause you to sabotage your own desire for change. I think it has to do with certain primal instincts we have to keep things safe, to keep our environments safe. Change can mean disaster, and certainly when you have found one part of the jungle to be safe, moving to the other part of the jungle could mean more tigers and snakes to threaten you.
To me, that could be a plausible reason why a certain person might not emotionally desire for people to go to hell, but resist all reasonable evidence against it, placing them in a tough spot. A new understanding would mean no more fear of torture in the afterlife, but it would also mean (gasp!) CHANGE! Oh no, not that!
Oh yes, the ramifications of believing something that nobody else around you accepts can be too hard a medicine to swallow.
The weapons of our warfare are not natural, but spiritual....and Mighty Through God for the pulling down of every stronghold that exalts itself against the tru knowledge of God. :o)