2 Thessalonians 3

[Forest]

Hey all, Forest here!

I was watching a video on YouTube today where a woman was describing how she came to Christian Universalism and someone left a comment on her video that said just this:

2 Thessalonians 3 "For the faith is not for everyone."

Due to the context of her video, I'm not sure if this was stating that the Universalist faith is not for everyone or if they are asserting that not all will be saved because the faith is not for everyone. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one. Thank you!

[jabcat]

I could see it at least 2 ways;  she's an ET'er and doesn't everyone will be eventually be saved.

Or she's a UR person and realizes not everyone is yet saved/a believer.

My understanding of that passage is that Paul was encouraging the believers/ faithful, as even though there were people around that were not believers - actually, probably stronger than that - people that were actively against them even, they could trust God.  Because he said "not everyone is of the faith, but God will protect us..."

1 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has [is of the] faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.

[rosered]

  Dear Forrest,
  That person  whom made the comment  , Did not know the truth / Word /Bible , just enough to stumble , himself and others

  The  bible says everyone is given a measure of faith by God in Romans 12;3
  faith comes by hearing what the Spirit is saying  , and so comes the new birth by the Holy Spirit  in any of us , when we are careful how we hear .


  remember the man whose  faith was failing  him to have his son healed by Jesus and asked for the Lord to increase his faith , those are the good things to ask God for , not an easy  way out .

  Like Peter going to be sifted by Satan  , but Jesus  did not say  , I keep you from that  suffering Peter , NO  Jesus  knew it was going to benefit Peters  walk with God  to know the depths of evil /satan  , so He told Peter , I have prayed that your faith not fail you , when he was fixing to experience ''death ''  sifting   the good from the evil discerning spirits   within himself  and Peter went on to write  in the bible a good  and helpful  portion  for us to read today!  and helped  many .
  faith is a substance  and a hope of glory to God comes though it  .
 

In the English Standard Version of the Bible, Romans 12:3 says, "For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned." The New American Standard Bible, King James Version, and Holman Christian Standard Bible also contain "measure of faith," while "measure of faith" is presented as "the faith God has distributed to each of you" in the New International Version and "the faith God has given us" in the New Living Translation.

and James   awesome !   Yes , hearing is how faith is  established    in unbelievers  as  a deposit    from the Holy Spirits  seeds  of those good fruits and bearing many glorious things  of God in mans sown earth [body]   soul and spirit connection ..

sharing is caring ..     :HeartThrob:

[jugghead]

I agree with jabcat on this, early in my walk I came to understand that when it comes to salvation, there are only three possibilities:

NONE ... SOME ... ALL

If we believe in God, NONE is automatically eliminated as a possibility, but if we believe in God, there are only two possibilities left, that only SOME will be saved OR ALL will be saved.

That comment on the video doesn't state their belief, just a passage from Scripture, so it can apply to both SOME and ALL.

I myself believe it was a comment by an ETer because they kept their faith (what they believe) hidden, whereas if it was someone of UR, they would have stated what they believe and that because of what the apostle Paul tells us, that he is not ashamed of the good news and those not ashamed of it will speak what they believe despite the fact they know they may be persecuted for it.

Which now goes back to the SOME or ALL belief, for even those who believe that only SOME will be saved, speak of it with no fear that the will be persecuted for it.

What I see as the difference is, is their belief of the New Covenant of Grace leading to forgiveness or is it of the Old Covenant of Law leading to condemnation, this is what we need to discern.

Is it FORGIVENESS for ALL or FORGIVENESS for SOME AND CONDEMNATION for SOME

and I myself believe (as well as others here) it cannot be a mixture.

The law was given to discern sin not to use it to judge others as sinners and to judge others as sinners (I believe) is the plank in their eye ... for do not call what He has made clean as unclean. (We do not see them in the flesh, we see them in the Spirit as somebody lost with no guidance compared to somebody found with guidance)

for me, to reconcile the law to grace is to use the law to discern sin not to judge others, its an inward direction of the use of the law not an outward direction of it, and by that inward direction of the use of the law:

GRACE is manifested outward instead of CONDEMNATION being manifested outward

my  :2c:

[rosered]

AMEN Jugg , forgive and be forgiven !!!
as in adam all die , but there is hope still in Jesus Christ ,  that is , a new Life back from the dead ....

we are not our own  , dead in sin and alive in Christ  , God makes sure everyone is called according to His own purpose
  Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God , not just the bread alone ...

  :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[jugghead]

hey Rose, made some slight edits after your post, just wanted to let you know

[rosered]

hey Rose, made some slight edits after your post, just wanted to let you know

Amen Brother it is knowing what manner of  spirit  we  are  !!!!!!!!!!  luke 9


...54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do You want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?"


55But Jesus turned and rebuked them,Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.—56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them   some say this  black  wording was added  for clarity in some bibles others call it spurious  , but can see they were all still under the law of sin and death  till the Lord rose in power  :HeartThrob:

56and they went on to another village....

Wisdom  &  understanding  it  comes from   ABOVE   the FATHER  of Lights   James 1
  one to rule the night the other to rule the Day ...both have their part  in keeping GODS Word true .

  for me as I can tell it at this time by Gods grace  :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

I could see it at least 2 ways;  she's an ET'er and doesn't everyone will be eventually be saved.

Or she's a UR person and realizes not everyone is yet saved/a believer.

My understanding of that passage is that Paul was encouraging the believers/ faithful, as even though there were people around that were not believers - actually, probably stronger than that - people that were actively against them even, they could trust God.  Because he said "not everyone is of the faith, but God will protect us..."

1 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has [is of the] faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.

:thumbsup:

..It's confusing to me how so many remain so confused! Aren't they reading His Word? The NT is such a slim volume! If we read it every year, wouldn't the scales - eventually - fall from their eyes? I guess that's why some are finding UR/CU! :banana: I do LOVE biblically sound believers.. the most of all.. of course.. that's assuming I am accurate in what I think is biblically sound. :faint: :doh:

[jugghead]

For me, as long as its foundation is love, then it is biblically sound

[rosered]

For me, as long as its foundation is love, then it is biblically sound

  I agree !!!!!!!!!!   

If it was based on ,love God first and love everyone else in the same manner you desire to be treated with  respect  and   dignity ......  a spiritual inner  connection   with somthing  so much  greater than ourselves [human nature ]  and child like spirit . as a new born baby is so helpless  , we know that Satan seeks to devour them as soon as they are born in Rev 12

this is the basic law and foundational truth .  instead of fear and  torment in death if you fail the test and no one in the flesh will never measure up
Gods law is spiritual   romans 7 ;14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.

LOVE comes directly from the  HOLY SPIRIT[ bearing   holy gifts ] 

The many wars an killings and  divisions and many religious ideas   would have never  taken root , it was about power over the people  seeking strength   in dominating others   and not giving God his rightful place and power  as ALL  in our lives .

 
   the love the power over people  , and abusing this power  ,not  honoring  the power of GOD first

  the form of godliness always fools the innocent , gullible and  simple minded , trusting , this is how we seek the Lord in the church houses of Babylon , to learn   what is holy and true  and what is not .

17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

   the woman /true church , and apart  of  the body of Christ is  birthing  living ones ,   the evil one seeks to   steal ,  kill and destroy any good thing   and do it by  force  , that we know all to well by scriptures,   its wrath  not love  ,  what to be  leary of .
Be  wise as serpents but as harmless as doves .......

  harm seems to be the fruit of their doings   and when we harm   anyone in any way , it is not the Spirit of God working in us
but death  and its rider ..........  this to me is taking the plank out of our own eye in order to see   JESUS correctly .   
Or Jesus telling us to pluck out the offensive  eye or cut off the hand  or foot  , that   destroys   MUCH  good 
  The  eye of darkness and calling it light is deceiving   , the hand that betrays and the foot that is swift to shed innocent blood .
  just because you are not actually  and literally killing does not mean we are not hindering    the work of Christ   with our tongues     , that unruly little member  that cannot be tamed by any man , does much harm  because it is what is ruling the heart  and comes forth as  sin becoming utterly sinful and set for destruction.......

  the very core of reconciliation   is   FORGIVENESS   IN  LOVE    keep no record of wrong doing . harbouring wrath causes bitterness to defile everything good and holy and pure   working within us all . .
When you do not forgive  , the wrath of man [sinful nature ]  rules  and never works the righteousness of God  outwardly  and effecting  and affecting everyone .    the thoughts influence  and than the action  impacts  others lives  , the sin and error causing harm , great harm and staunching   the Spirit , do not quench the Spirit  moving and flowing .

To effect is to bring about or cause something to happen. for me it is , [ born again of the Spirit or adding spiritual growth ] in the gathering into ONE HOLY SPIRIT .
  or opposing  forces


For example, The dictatorial regime quickly effected changes to the constitution that restricted the freedom of the people. On the other hand, affected means made an impact on. It is the past tense of the verb form of affect, which means to impact.

   the impact  causes either more sin with more judgement  [gossipers are being fed slander and doing more harm and spreading lies  and Gods good name is blasphemed , as the least you have done unto one of these you have done unto me [  Jesus Christ ] causing much greater harm  and effect
hindering the work of the Holy Spirit  , love  and forgiveness  causes  spiritual growth and fellowship with one another .
and good to practice what we say  and do to become more spiritual and less and less of the human  nather that is so easily  influenced by satan's/adversary  power   to rule on the earth  . :2c:

[jugghead]

I was sent a PM, asking how I am doing? This was my reply before I even read what you wrote Rose, thought it fit in with what you said:

Doing pretty good, thank you very much for asking.

Just the other night before I went to sleep, I asked Him a question, it had to do with, not so much confusion on my part, but what comes next.

The question I asked was, what am I supposed to do?

The next morning, I woke up with these words;

Be who you believe yourself to be without persecuting those who believe differently.

the thing is, the second part of the answer can be viewed two ways, how they feel about me by what I believe and speak and also how I feel about another in what they believe and speak ...

of which I know it is both ways, that if they speak negatively about what I believe, it doesn't deter me from what I have been shown, but, what is believed and spoken by another could have an effect on what I believe, but only if what they believe and speak would add to my beliefs resulting in making me a better person.

He is always effecting/affecting us in making us better than we were the day before, He causes the growth and we never know through who it may come.

Yea, I know, a lot said for asking how I've been LOL 

Blessings

Just wanted to share

[rosered]

I was sent a PM, asking how I am doing? This was my reply before I even read what you wrote Rose, thought it fit in with what you said:

Doing pretty good, thank you very much for asking.

Just the other night before I went to sleep, I asked Him a question, it had to do with, not so much confusion on my part, but what comes next.

The question I asked was, what am I supposed to do?

The next morning, I woke up with these words;

Be who you believe yourself to be without persecuting those who believe differently.

the thing is, the second part of the answer can be viewed two ways, how they feel about me by what I believe and speak and also how I feel about another in what they believe and speak ...

of which I know it is both ways, that if they speak negatively about what I believe, it doesn't deter me from what I have been shown, but, what is believed and spoken by another could have an effect on what I believe, but only if what they believe and speak would add to my beliefs resulting in making me a better person.

He is always effecting/affecting us in making us better than we were the day before, He causes the growth and we never know through who it may come.

Yea, I know, a lot said for asking how I've been LOL 

Blessings

Just wanted to share

  Wow , I can see how you  would see a double witness  Jugg .
   The WORD  is getting out to many  by way of Holy Spirit witness  even in troubled times .

  The promise of the Holy Spirit teaching us  all   in unity   in fellowship with one another  and all things in common .[HIM  THE LORD GOD almighty ] 

More of Gods amazing grace , how sweet the sound !  :dsunny:

  I just wanted to  note after reading Pauls account of coming   in the  Spirit of  gentleness
  or with the rod /correction  as a father figure type and shadow .
  was what was  further  shown in that  message  , seen Paul grow  in truth and grace   from a   complete enemy of Jesus Christ to   a new born babe to a child and than young man in the faith to a father overseer
as the impact  with the encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ anointing him on the road to damascus.  there is tons of spiritual truth in  how  the  faith and hope and love works , I have always seen Paul as one whom expounded  on many of the Lords  teachings to us , helping us further along .


1 Corn 4 Paul Warns his Children

14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children.

15Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers;

for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

16Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17That is why I have sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus,a which is exactly what I teach everywhere in every church.

18Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you.

19But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only what these arrogant people are saying, but what power they have.

20For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.


21 Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and with a gentle spirit?

I do believe  we are learning  by the Holy Spirit  to be  purposed in the  faith and  hope and Love of God for His glory  even now . as the Holy Spirit  uses us to plant seeds   of Hope / Word   and waters further with the Word of life freely  and the Light within you is Christ  strength  and  anointing Spirit  and the  rod is   to shatter the false image  of the beast power over the people  by  becoming an overcomer of the world though Jesus  Spiritual encounter with us    of the 7 churches and  seven bowls  7 angels and 7 trumpets  and all in JESUS  hand of power over  all of it .  found in Rev 1, 2 and 3  of the victory race with our corrections/warnings  and rewards in Him within the power to have  happen to us  all  if God is willing .

   God bless always in HIM  to the fullest measure of GODS AMAZING TRUTH &GRACE

[marie glen]

I didn't have time to read much (in this thread) but it sounded interesting.. though i feel like I was  :laughing7: eavesdropping (is that the right word? never used to have problems with spelling or words! lol..) replying when I read so little.. tho maybe I've already read further up. :dontknow:

Lately I've been very much impressed with Paul's letters closest to his death.. for Timothy and Titus, etc. to fight to keep the Lord's gospel clear.. not to let the encroaching shadows of other belief enter in. This double tells me to always keep what I believe (the Word says) submitted to Him. I've noticed and you 'guys' likely have too, that as He teaches and guides us into all truth, He continues to to teach it.. He builds upon it. I have for a very long time felt that the world is in total confusion. I have no doubt you may agree :laughing7: This tells meI must always guard myself against the encroaching - against any encroaching shadow of the world's ideas.

The Lord, I think, has taught me that my interest should always be truth. Not to get stuck in my own ideas.. that wasn't what Paul wrote "contend eanestly for what I believe the Word says" but for what it actually says. It's a fine line isn't it? :laughing7:

We know - by the legend of 'hell' that error has indeed crept into the faith.. that error is likely, i have to think, built upon the foundation(?) of other error, and is like a tapestry of falsehood the world sees about our Father. So I have it in my head that if the tip of God's mighty sWord could separate those threads of error right out of the tapestry of error, it would fall apart.

:dontknow: I don't know why I think a tapestry weaved with ONLY dark, untrue threads, can only fall apart.. ? It's related to the other conviction that if God Himself were not Perfect, He too would fade away.. (Impossible of course! That He fade away.. lol.)

But, I'm babbling.. Perhaps a big benefit of a free flowing forum like Tentmaker's lets us express what we're learning.. because we're in a sense building.. some things gold or silver, won't burn nor fade away.. some things we build may be straw, or even wood and will burn and fade away.. The more gold here.. the more in the kingdom! That our works not be burned up..

I do believe the pure crystalline gospel will be presented to the world before man's empires/worldviews clash so badly. And this is where I want my allegiance to be.

I've also learned if an idea or belief I have has a thread of error in it, submitted to Him, He can pare that idea down. Prune that branch so it brings forth more good fresh fruit.. (How lovely that the water of the River of life is and will be so crystalline pure!)

I had a conversation once with a group of believers who were studying the colors of the rainbow (I used to be a little more new-agey, back in the day.. The Lord had to pare down my beliefs quite a lot!) But one thing stuck with me.. each person was believed to be one of the colors in personality. Mine was green. My favorite color, for all God's beautiful green creation.. emerald like, my birthstone.. haha.. and second is blue for the sky.. but green's main attribute is to be a "fixer". And I think it fits me to a t. For good or bad. So I try to doubly pray and submit when it comes to God's message.

I used to think the armor of God was supposed to defend moi.. Keep me spiritually and physically safe from all the adversary&co.'s threats, lest they attach to my psyche! And it does, no doubt! But I think what its truly or best purpose is, is to defend God's message - Truth.

I get very defensive about metaphor when it comes to His message. Of course there is an ocean's depth of wisdom, simile and metaphor concerning it.. but there's the strong trend to metaphor it completely.. like it's all ONLY metaphoe. And that I know is error. And when we read the message straight forward, as written, it becomes so simple and clear (imo).

So I can have a tendency to over react if I think I catch a scent of metaphor! If I have been too intent/obnoxious, ever, :doh: I do apologize! I can be quite zealous and determined.. (and always think I'm right, lol! Though I DO learn from others!) But metaphor always makes me want to add the literal. Not as a "versus" but as an "also". I don't know really which way I come across. :laugh:

Anyway.. I'm feeling a lot of love and affection for you guys and gals arund here! I hope you have a wonderful upcoming weekend. I'm headed off to a camping few days.. (We bought a travel trailer).. haha, less and less rustic over the years.. it was great survival learning tho! Some folks, if there's ever a failure of man's system and production, etc.. if grocery shelves empty, they wouldn't know what to do.. except likely become roaving bands.. um.. falling down a prophecy rabbit hole here.. not unusual.. "come out of her my ppl.. the church PART of? SOME of the church.. so you do not share in her plagues.. judgments, consequences and results.. the foaming cup mystery babble holds in her hands.. prophecy is like ripples in a pond.. and like the kingdom, widens until the circle is all.. (I think the hail John saw in the Rev vision, may be debris.. watching 911 footage suggested that to me..
:Peace2: gotta run..  :HeartThrob: :girlheart: :cloud9: I've NEVER had a church/believing 'family'.. no once for a brief time, I had a brother and a sister, they were married.. loved them.. they divorced.. have not seen them in years.. why he's not on the internet, preaching/teaching I'll never know!--Now thats metaphor and not literal at all! And maybe he is.. tho on FB as very inactive. :)  :Peace2: :girlheart: