Hey all, Forest here!
I was watching a video on YouTube today where a woman was describing how she came to Christian Universalism and someone left a comment on her video that said just this:
2 Thessalonians 3 "For the faith is not for everyone."
Due to the context of her video, I'm not sure if this was stating that the Universalist faith is not for everyone or if they are asserting that not all will be saved because the faith is not for everyone. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one. Thank you!
I could see it at least 2 ways; she's an ET'er and doesn't everyone will be eventually be saved.
Or she's a UR person and realizes not everyone is yet saved/a believer.
My understanding of that passage is that Paul was encouraging the believers/ faithful, as even though there were people around that were not believers - actually, probably stronger than that - people that were actively against them even, they could trust God. Because he said "not everyone is of the faith, but God will protect us..."
1 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has [is of the] faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
Dear Forrest,
That person whom made the comment , Did not know the truth / Word /Bible , just enough to stumble , himself and others
The bible says everyone is given a measure of faith by God in Romans 12;3
faith comes by hearing what the Spirit is saying , and so comes the new birth by the Holy Spirit in any of us , when we are careful how we hear .
remember the man whose faith was failing him to have his son healed by Jesus and asked for the Lord to increase his faith , those are the good things to ask God for , not an easy way out .
Like Peter going to be sifted by Satan , but Jesus did not say , I keep you from that suffering Peter , NO Jesus knew it was going to benefit Peters walk with God to know the depths of evil /satan , so He told Peter , I have prayed that your faith not fail you , when he was fixing to experience ''death '' sifting the good from the evil discerning spirits within himself and Peter went on to write in the bible a good and helpful portion for us to read today! and helped many .
faith is a substance and a hope of glory to God comes though it .
In the English Standard Version of the Bible, Romans 12:3 says, "For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned." The New American Standard Bible, King James Version, and Holman Christian Standard Bible also contain "measure of faith," while "measure of faith" is presented as "the faith God has distributed to each of you" in the New International Version and "the faith God has given us" in the New Living Translation.
and James awesome ! Yes , hearing is how faith is established in unbelievers as a deposit from the Holy Spirits seeds of those good fruits and bearing many glorious things of God in mans sown earth [body] soul and spirit connection ..
sharing is caring .. :HeartThrob:
I agree with jabcat on this, early in my walk I came to understand that when it comes to salvation, there are only three possibilities:
NONE ... SOME ... ALL
If we believe in God, NONE is automatically eliminated as a possibility, but if we believe in God, there are only two possibilities left, that only SOME will be saved OR ALL will be saved.
That comment on the video doesn't state their belief, just a passage from Scripture, so it can apply to both SOME and ALL.
I myself believe it was a comment by an ETer because they kept their faith (what they believe) hidden, whereas if it was someone of UR, they would have stated what they believe and that because of what the apostle Paul tells us, that he is not ashamed of the good news and those not ashamed of it will speak what they believe despite the fact they know they may be persecuted for it.
Which now goes back to the SOME or ALL belief, for even those who believe that only SOME will be saved, speak of it with no fear that the will be persecuted for it.
What I see as the difference is, is their belief of the New Covenant of Grace leading to forgiveness or is it of the Old Covenant of Law leading to condemnation, this is what we need to discern.
Is it FORGIVENESS for ALL or FORGIVENESS for SOME AND CONDEMNATION for SOME
and I myself believe (as well as others here) it cannot be a mixture.
The law was given to discern sin not to use it to judge others as sinners and to judge others as sinners (I believe) is the plank in their eye ... for do not call what He has made clean as unclean. (We do not see them in the flesh, we see them in the Spirit as somebody lost with no guidance compared to somebody found with guidance)
for me, to reconcile the law to grace is to use the law to discern sin not to judge others, its an inward direction of the use of the law not an outward direction of it, and by that inward direction of the use of the law:
GRACE is manifested outward instead of CONDEMNATION being manifested outward
my :2c:
AMEN Jugg , forgive and be forgiven !!!
as in adam all die , but there is hope still in Jesus Christ , that is , a new Life back from the dead ....
we are not our own , dead in sin and alive in Christ , God makes sure everyone is called according to His own purpose
Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God , not just the bread alone ...
:dsunny: :HeartThrob:
hey Rose, made some slight edits after your post, just wanted to let you know
Quote from: jugghead on May 19, 2019, 03:17:05 PM
hey Rose, made some slight edits after your post, just wanted to let you know
Amen Brother it is knowing what manner of spirit we are !!!!!!!!!! luke 9
...54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do You want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?"
55But Jesus turned and rebuked them,
Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.—56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them some say this black wording was added for clarity in some bibles others call it spurious , but can see they were all still under the law of sin and death till the Lord rose in power :HeartThrob:
56and they went on to another village....
Wisdom & understanding it comes from ABOVE the FATHER of Lights James 1
one to rule the night the other to rule the Day ...both have their part in keeping GODS Word true .
for me as I can tell it at this time by Gods grace :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: jabcat on May 18, 2019, 04:17:14 AM
I could see it at least 2 ways; she's an ET'er and doesn't everyone will be eventually be saved.
Or she's a UR person and realizes not everyone is yet saved/a believer.
My understanding of that passage is that Paul was encouraging the believers/ faithful, as even though there were people around that were not believers - actually, probably stronger than that - people that were actively against them even, they could trust God. Because he said "not everyone is of the faith, but God will protect us..."
1 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has [is of the] faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
:thumbsup:
..It's confusing to me how so many remain so confused! Aren't they reading His Word? The NT is such a slim volume! If we read it every year, wouldn't the scales - eventually - fall from their eyes? I guess that's why some are finding UR/CU! :banana: I do LOVE biblically sound believers.. the most of all.. of course.. that's assuming I am accurate in what I think is biblically sound. :faint: :doh:
For me, as long as its foundation is love, then it is biblically sound
Quote from: jugghead on May 21, 2019, 02:22:32 AM
For me, as long as its foundation is love, then it is biblically sound
I agree !!!!!!!!!!
If it was based on ,love God first and love everyone else in the same manner you desire to be treated with respect and dignity ...... a spiritual inner connection with somthing so much greater than ourselves [human nature ] and child like spirit . as a new born baby is so helpless , we know that Satan seeks to devour them as soon as they are born in Rev 12
this is the basic law and foundational truth . instead of fear and torment in death if you fail the test and no one in the flesh will never measure up
Gods law is spiritual romans 7 ;14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
LOVE comes directly from the HOLY SPIRIT[ bearing holy gifts ]
The many wars an killings and divisions and many religious ideas would have never taken root , it was about power over the people seeking strength in dominating others and not giving God his rightful place and power as ALL in our lives .
the love the power over people , and abusing this power ,not honoring the power of GOD first
the form of godliness always fools the innocent , gullible and simple minded , trusting , this is how we seek the Lord in the church houses of Babylon , to learn what is holy and true and what is not .
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
the woman /true church , and apart of the body of Christ is birthing living ones , the evil one seeks to steal , kill and destroy any good thing and do it by force , that we know all to well by scriptures, its wrath not love , what to be leary of .
Be wise as serpents but as harmless as doves .......
harm seems to be the fruit of their doings and when we harm anyone in any way , it is not the Spirit of God working in us
but death and its rider .......... this to me is taking the plank out of our own eye in order to see JESUS correctly .
Or Jesus telling us to pluck out the offensive eye or cut off the hand or foot , that destroys MUCH good
The eye of darkness and calling it light is deceiving , the hand that betrays and the foot that is swift to shed innocent blood .
just because you are not actually and literally killing does not mean we are not hindering the work of Christ with our tongues , that unruly little member that cannot be tamed by any man , does much harm because it is what is ruling the heart and comes forth as sin becoming utterly sinful and set for destruction.......
the very core of reconciliation is FORGIVENESS IN LOVE keep no record of wrong doing . harbouring wrath causes bitterness to defile everything good and holy and pure working within us all . .
When you do not forgive , the wrath of man [sinful nature ] rules and never works the righteousness of God outwardly and effecting and affecting everyone . the thoughts influence and than the action impacts others lives , the sin and error causing harm , great harm and staunching the Spirit , do not quench the Spirit moving and flowing .
To effect is to bring about or cause something to happen. for me it is , [ born again of the Spirit or adding spiritual growth ] in the gathering into ONE HOLY SPIRIT .
or opposing forces
For example, The dictatorial regime quickly effected changes to the constitution that restricted the freedom of the people. On the other hand, affected means made an impact on. It is the past tense of the verb form of affect, which means to impact.
the impact causes either more sin with more judgement [gossipers are being fed slander and doing more harm and spreading lies and Gods good name is blasphemed , as the least you have done unto one of these you have done unto me [ Jesus Christ ] causing much greater harm and effect
hindering the work of the Holy Spirit , love and forgiveness causes spiritual growth and fellowship with one another .
and good to practice what we say and do to become more spiritual and less and less of the human nather that is so easily influenced by satan's/adversary power to rule on the earth . :2c:
I was sent a PM, asking how I am doing? This was my reply before I even read what you wrote Rose, thought it fit in with what you said:
Quote
Doing pretty good, thank you very much for asking.
Just the other night before I went to sleep, I asked Him a question, it had to do with, not so much confusion on my part, but what comes next.
The question I asked was, what am I supposed to do?
The next morning, I woke up with these words;
Be who you believe yourself to be without persecuting those who believe differently.
the thing is, the second part of the answer can be viewed two ways, how they feel about me by what I believe and speak and also how I feel about another in what they believe and speak ...
of which I know it is both ways, that if they speak negatively about what I believe, it doesn't deter me from what I have been shown, but, what is believed and spoken by another could have an effect on what I believe, but only if what they believe and speak would add to my beliefs resulting in making me a better person.
He is always effecting/affecting us in making us better than we were the day before, He causes the growth and we never know through who it may come.
Yea, I know, a lot said for asking how I've been LOL
Blessings
Just wanted to share
Quote from: jugghead on May 24, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
I was sent a PM, asking how I am doing? This was my reply before I even read what you wrote Rose, thought it fit in with what you said:
Quote
Doing pretty good, thank you very much for asking.
Just the other night before I went to sleep, I asked Him a question, it had to do with, not so much confusion on my part, but what comes next.
The question I asked was, what am I supposed to do?
The next morning, I woke up with these words;
Be who you believe yourself to be without persecuting those who believe differently.
the thing is, the second part of the answer can be viewed two ways, how they feel about me by what I believe and speak and also how I feel about another in what they believe and speak ...
of which I know it is both ways, that if they speak negatively about what I believe, it doesn't deter me from what I have been shown, but, what is believed and spoken by another could have an effect on what I believe, but only if what they believe and speak would add to my beliefs resulting in making me a better person.
He is always effecting/affecting us in making us better than we were the day before, He causes the growth and we never know through who it may come.
Yea, I know, a lot said for asking how I've been LOL
Blessings
Just wanted to share
Wow , I can see how you would see a double witness Jugg .
The WORD is getting out to many by way of Holy Spirit witness even in troubled times .
The promise of the Holy Spirit teaching us all in unity in fellowship with one another and all things in common .[HIM THE LORD GOD almighty ]
More of Gods amazing grace , how sweet the sound ! :dsunny:
I just wanted to note after reading Pauls account of coming in the Spirit of gentleness
or with the rod /correction as a father figure type and shadow .
was what was further shown in that message , seen Paul grow in truth and grace from a complete enemy of Jesus Christ to a new born babe to a child and than young man in the faith to a father overseer
as the impact with the encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ anointing him on the road to damascus. there is tons of spiritual truth in how the faith and hope and love works , I have always seen Paul as one whom expounded on many of the Lords teachings to us , helping us further along .
1 Corn 4 Paul Warns his Children
14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children.
15Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers;
for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17That is why I have sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus,a which is exactly what I teach everywhere in every church.
18Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you.
19But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only what these arrogant people are saying, but what power they have.
20For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk
but of power.
21 Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and with a gentle spirit?
I do believe we are learning by the Holy Spirit to be purposed in the faith and hope and Love of God for His glory even now . as the Holy Spirit uses us to plant seeds of Hope / Word and waters further with the Word of life freely and the Light within you is Christ strength and anointing Spirit and the rod is to shatter the false image of the beast power over the people by becoming an overcomer of the world though Jesus Spiritual encounter with us of the 7 churches and seven bowls 7 angels and 7 trumpets and all in JESUS hand of power over all of it . found in Rev 1, 2 and 3 of the victory race with our corrections/warnings and rewards in Him within the power to have happen to us all if God is willing .
God bless always in HIM to the fullest measure of GODS AMAZING TRUTH &GRACE
I didn't have time to read much (in this thread) but it sounded interesting.. though i feel like I was :laughing7: eavesdropping (is that the right word? never used to have problems with spelling or words! lol..) replying when I read so little.. tho maybe I've already read further up. :dontknow:
Lately I've been very much impressed with Paul's letters closest to his death.. for Timothy and Titus, etc. to fight to keep the Lord's gospel clear.. not to let the encroaching shadows of other belief enter in. This double tells me to always keep what I believe (the Word says) submitted to Him. I've noticed and you 'guys' likely have too, that as He teaches and guides us into all truth, He continues to to teach it.. He builds upon it. I have for a very long time felt that the world is in total confusion. I have no doubt you may agree :laughing7: This tells meI must always guard myself against the encroaching - against any encroaching shadow of the world's ideas.
The Lord, I think, has taught me that my interest should always be truth. Not to get stuck in my own ideas.. that wasn't what Paul wrote "contend eanestly for what I believe the Word says" but for what it actually says. It's a fine line isn't it? :laughing7:
We know - by the legend of 'hell' that error has indeed crept into the faith.. that error is likely, i have to think, built upon the foundation(?) of other error, and is like a tapestry of falsehood the world sees about our Father. So I have it in my head that if the tip of God's mighty sWord could separate those threads of error right out of the tapestry of error, it would fall apart.
:dontknow: I don't know why I think a tapestry weaved with ONLY dark, untrue threads, can only fall apart.. ? It's related to the other conviction that if God Himself were not Perfect, He too would fade away.. (Impossible of course! That He fade away.. lol.)
But, I'm babbling.. Perhaps a big benefit of a free flowing forum like Tentmaker's lets us express what we're learning.. because we're in a sense building.. some things gold or silver, won't burn nor fade away.. some things we build may be straw, or even wood and will burn and fade away.. The more gold here.. the more in the kingdom! That our works not be burned up..
I do believe the pure crystalline gospel will be presented to the world before man's empires/worldviews clash so badly. And this is where I want my allegiance to be.
I've also learned if an idea or belief I have has a thread of error in it, submitted to Him, He can pare that idea down. Prune that branch so it brings forth more good fresh fruit.. (How lovely that the water of the River of life is and will be so crystalline pure!)
I had a conversation once with a group of believers who were studying the colors of the rainbow (I used to be a little more new-agey, back in the day.. The Lord had to pare down my beliefs quite a lot!) But one thing stuck with me.. each person was believed to be one of the colors in personality. Mine was green. My favorite color, for all God's beautiful green creation.. emerald like, my birthstone.. haha.. and second is blue for the sky.. but green's main attribute is to be a "fixer". And I think it fits me to a t. For good or bad. So I try to doubly pray and submit when it comes to God's message.
I used to think the armor of God was supposed to defend moi.. Keep me spiritually and physically safe from all the adversary&co.'s threats, lest they attach to my psyche! And it does, no doubt! But I think what its truly or best purpose is, is to defend God's message - Truth.
I get very defensive about metaphor when it comes to His message. Of course there is an ocean's depth of wisdom, simile and metaphor concerning it.. but there's the strong trend to metaphor it completely.. like it's all ONLY metaphoe. And that I know is error. And when we read the message straight forward, as written, it becomes so simple and clear (imo).
So I can have a tendency to over react if I think I catch a scent of metaphor! If I have been too intent/obnoxious, ever, :doh: I do apologize! I can be quite zealous and determined.. (and always think I'm right, lol! Though I DO learn from others!) But metaphor always makes me want to add the literal. Not as a "versus" but as an "also". I don't know really which way I come across. :laugh:
Anyway.. I'm feeling a lot of love and affection for you guys and gals arund here! I hope you have a wonderful upcoming weekend. I'm headed off to a camping few days.. (We bought a travel trailer).. haha, less and less rustic over the years.. it was great survival learning tho! Some folks, if there's ever a failure of man's system and production, etc.. if grocery shelves empty, they wouldn't know what to do.. except likely become roaving bands.. um.. falling down a prophecy rabbit hole here.. not unusual.. "come out of her my ppl.. the church PART of? SOME of the church.. so you do not share in her plagues.. judgments, consequences and results.. the foaming cup mystery babble holds in her hands.. prophecy is like ripples in a pond.. and like the kingdom, widens until the circle is all.. (I think the hail John saw in the Rev vision, may be debris.. watching 911 footage suggested that to me..
:Peace2: gotta run.. :HeartThrob: :girlheart: :cloud9: I've NEVER had a church/believing 'family'.. no once for a brief time, I had a brother and a sister, they were married.. loved them.. they divorced.. have not seen them in years.. why he's not on the internet, preaching/teaching I'll never know!--Now thats metaphor and not literal at all! And maybe he is.. tho on FB as very inactive. :) :Peace2: :girlheart: