Very controversial question to pose.

[firstborn888]

I mentioned in another thread that he did a four week sermon series against universalism when he found out I was exploring it and sharing it with others.

Unbelievable.

Oh no - the dreaded "Sunday morning after" syndrome. That's no fun, getting preached at in public.  :thumbdown: Did he make any eye contact w/you during the sermons?

[Andromeda_Organa]

The children that is. Meant I really doubt He would condemn the children.

You will get many different answers on that question. On this board it will simply be that those childeren will enter heaven.
But I also have read ET visions/opinions....
The most morbid one was along these lines:

Someone was having a look into the seperate torture chambers of hell. All diffrent and all with different pain levels.
In a certain room there was a baby in an oven.
The baby was there because it died before it was baptized.
Now you might ask youself isn't that very unfair? The baby didn't sin yet!
The answer was that God knew the baby would have become some monster like Hitler.
So God showed his grace in two fold:
a] He protected society from the crimes the grown up baby would do.
b] And the baby was only in an oven now instead of a very hot fire if it was allowed to live a whole life.

So 6 billion people. 6 billion answers.....

I thought these people believed babies went to Heaven- doesn't the Bible teach that?

[firstborn888]

In a certain room there was a baby in an oven.
The baby was there because it died before it was baptized.
Now you might ask youself isn't that very unfair? The baby didn't sin yet!
The answer was that God knew the baby would have become some monster like Hitler.

I thought these people believed babies went to Heaven- doesn't the Bible teach that?

I think this baby story is from an old Catholic children's book (!) since only those who 'believe and are baptized' are saved. So it was just driving home church doctrine about baptism.

Calvin is widely (and possibly FALSELY) quoted as saying "There are babies a span long in hell". This could just be oral tradition and Arminian propaganda as there is no solid proof he ever said that. Clearly all modern Calvinist institutions have distanced themselves from concepts like this as it would greatly hurt their cause

Babies in hell or heaven poses problems for ET believers though because if God cannot allow sin in heaven and the Calvinistic adherence to 'sin nature' doctrine is to be kept how can God let them in? Thus, to keep God looking reasonably fair -  pre-election gets extended to ALL who are mentally incapable of comprehending sin. However - some Calvinists I've met (very few) are fine with the concept of non-elect babies in torment. The rationale is that the sinful nature is all there in the baby - it just hasn't matured yet so, no big deal. I'll quote one from a conversation I had "If you start making exceptions for babies then you have to start making exceptions for the mentally ill, the old and incompetent, those who never heard - it just goes on and on and on" (!)

[DeeDee]

[I thought these people believed babies went to Heaven- doesn't the Bible teach that?/quote]

Most ET churches teach that all that are not baptized go to hell, so they would tell you that a newborn baby that dies will go to hell. Only problem with that is that it does not make any sense at all. Not in a persons head or heart, so don't worry I seriously doubt God would punish innocent babies.

[Andromeda_Organa]

In a certain room there was a baby in an oven.
The baby was there because it died before it was baptized.
Now you might ask youself isn't that very unfair? The baby didn't sin yet!
The answer was that God knew the baby would have become some monster like Hitler.

I thought these people believed babies went to Heaven- doesn't the Bible teach that?

I think this baby story is from an old Catholic children's book (!) since only those who 'believe and are baptized' are saved. So it was just driving home church doctrine about baptism.

Calvin is widely (and possibly FALSELY) quoted as saying "There are babies a span long in hell". This could just be oral tradition and Arminian propaganda as there is no solid proof he ever said that. Clearly all modern Calvinist institutions have distanced themselves from concepts like this as it would greatly hurt their cause

Babies in hell or heaven poses problems for ET believers though because if God cannot allow sin in heaven and the Calvinistic adherence to 'sin nature' doctrine is to be kept how can God let them in? Thus, to keep God looking reasonably fair -  pre-election gets extended to ALL who are mentally incapable of comprehending sin. However - some Calvinists I've met (very few) are fine with the concept of non-elect babies in torment. The rationale is that the sinful nature is all there in the baby - it just hasn't matured yet so, no big deal. I'll quote one from a conversation I had "If you start making exceptions for babies then you have to start making exceptions for the mentally ill, the old and incompetent, those who never heard - it just goes on and on and on" (!)

Ugh! I'm mentally ill myself, and that just disturbs me! Schizophrenics would not be capable of understanding the Gospel, so how could they be held accountable?

[firstborn888]

Ugh! I'm mentally ill myself, and that just disturbs me! Schizophrenics would not be capable of understanding the Gospel, so how could they be held accountable?

The whole 'chosen for eternal damnation from the beginning' is really the most repulsive and evil doctrine ever devised. At least with most pagan systems you get at least one chance to 'get it right :sigh:

[Andromeda_Organa]

Ugh! I'm mentally ill myself, and that just disturbs me! Schizophrenics would not be capable of understanding the Gospel, so how could they be held accountable?

The whole 'chosen for eternal damnation from the beginning' is really the most repulsive and evil doctrine ever devised. At least with most pagan systems you get at least one chance to 'get it right :sigh:

RIght, exactly. And reincarnation gives you multiple chances. Although in Islam, you never get the assurance you'll go to Heaven, no matter how devout you are.