I don't remember who it was earlier this week that shared their impression of how they see the soul by using the colored glass plates analogy. I tried going back in some of the conversations and looking for it, but I can't find who it was. But I want to thank you, whoever you are . .. that little insight has touched me deeply and it's led to something even deeper in me.
Our discussion surrounding whether or not Saul actually had a witch bring Samuel back from the dead, on the surface, may have seemed to have been a dead end in that I personally, never did come to see it to be anything other than what Scripture was stating, but that discussion led me to a realization that my belief in what a soul is, was not through a personal experience of my own understanding .. . in other words, God didn't "reveal" to me inwardly that my soul is my mind, will and emotions. That belief was one that had been ingrained in me from my up-bringing. It was a trojan-horse doctrine in me.
When I first realized that was the case, I immediately loosened my grip on the idea and felt it drift off of me. For some time, I was there with no understanding at all because "that" had been my understanding, but once I let it go, it felt like I was standing in an empty room . . .there was nothing in there that illuminated anything to me about what my soul actually was.
Then someone put out that glass plate analogy and sparks began to fly. It's a great introductory . .it's a threshold into the room of the soul in the Father's house that Jesus spoke about going ahead and preparing a place for us. Up until the beginning of this week, there was no place for me in this room because it never occurred to me that my understanding was an ingrained one and not one that was spiritually birthed.
So as I started rolling the glass plates over and just hovered over the face of the deep with them. . .I began seeing a connection between that analogy and this one . . .
I saw an empty room . .white walls, but bare and no furniture . ..just me and nothing. This went on for a time and then the bright illumination of light appeared . . .even though now there are two things in the room . . .me and this light . . . a third thing was actually manifesting. Know what it was? Before light . . .just me . .. with light, me and this other thing . . .before . .nothing . ..after . . .it's back again.
can you see it yet? Know what it is?? It's your shadow. it's in the exact image as you are. It follows your every move. If you have other objects now in the room, it doesn't matter, it still follows the contours of "you" as the light shines on you. It always "appears" larger than you. At it's smallest point, it's "actual size". It's always on the opposite side of you as the light. It's always "beneath" your feet. It's belly is always "upon the ground". It's always at "dust" level. The brighter the light becomes, the more defined it gets. It's at it's greatest proportion at sunset (Rest) and sunrise (resurrection).
But for it to be present, 'you" must be in direct light. If you walk in or under clouds, it disappears. This is the nature of the soul of man. To me anyway . . .now, in this light, what Scriptures come to you in reference to shadows?
Yea, though I walk through the SHADOW of death . . .is not the mind of man always "at enmity" against God? Soulishness is in the shadows of men. Interesting thing about my soul though . . .it's a shadow like Peter Pan's . . .remember that little kiddy story? It all started with him trying to catch his shadow. Men who walk according to their minds have lost their shadows . . .they walk under clouds . . there is no direct illumination/revelation from the Father. They are still in "disorder". When Jesus told Peter "Get thee behind me, Satan" he was realigning Peter's soulish nature . . .he was putting his shadow back beneath his feet.
2 Corinthians 10 "Take captive your thoughts" . . .putting your soul back in to it's proper alignment. Just as Eve is in the same form as Adam, she represents the soul of Man as Adam represents the spriit of man . . .so the shadow is in the same form as man as it also represents the soul of man. When the lights go out . . .the shadow no longer manifests. It's the evidence that light is shining upon the body.
My soul is the evidence that my spirit is dwelling in this body. It's the manifestation of the "oneness" in my body and spirit. When this spirit leaves this body, my soul no longer manifests . . .which really brings to a greater life the importance of us receiving our "glorified" bodies that Paul speaks of.
Ever wonder why "that" was important? If I'm already in heaven as a spirit, why do I need a body? Because "I' am three-dimensional in the same likeness as my Father. He is God in the Father/Son/Spirit and I am his Son in body/soul/spirit. When The Spirit of God manifests in the body of Jesus, the authority of Father God manifests.
This also brings to life of Peter's shadow healing the sick . . .it goes on and on.
Quote from: Nathan on July 02, 2010, 02:12:41 AM
I don't remember who it was earlier this week that shared their impression of how they see the soul by using the colored glass plates analogy. I tried going back in some of the conversations and looking for it, but I can't find who it was. But I want to thank you, whoever you are . .. that little insight has touched me deeply and it's led to something even deeper in me.
Our discussion surrounding whether or not Saul actually had a witch bring Samuel back from the dead, on the surface, may have seemed to have been a dead end in that I personally, never did come to see it to be anything other than what Scripture was stating, but that discussion led me to a realization that my belief in what a soul is, was not through a personal experience of my own understanding .. . in other words, God didn't "reveal" to me inwardly that my soul is my mind, will and emotions. That belief was one that had been ingrained in me from my up-bringing. It was a trojan-horse doctrine in me.
When I first realized that was the case, I immediately loosened my grip on the idea and felt it drift off of me. For some time, I was there with no understanding at all because "that" had been my understanding, but once I let it go, it felt like I was standing in an empty room . . .there was nothing in there that illuminated anything to me about what my soul actually was.
Then someone put out that glass plate analogy and sparks began to fly. It's a great introductory . .it's a threshold into the room of the soul in the Father's house that Jesus spoke about going ahead and preparing a place for us. Up until the beginning of this week, there was no place for me in this room because it never occurred to me that my understanding was an ingrained one and not one that was spiritually birthed.
So as I started rolling the glass plates over and just hovered over the face of the deep with them. . .I began seeing a connection between that analogy and this one . . .
I saw an empty room . .white walls, but bare and no furniture . ..just me and nothing. This went on for a time and then the bright illumination of light appeared . . .even though now there are two things in the room . . .me and this light . . . a third thing was actually manifesting. Know what it was? Before light . . .just me . .. with light, me and this other thing . . .before . .nothing . ..after . . .it's back again.
can you see it yet? Know what it is?? It's your shadow. it's in the exact image as you are. It follows your every move. If you have other objects now in the room, it doesn't matter, it still follows the contours of "you" as the light shines on you. It always "appears" larger than you. At it's smallest point, it's "actual size". It's always on the opposite side of you as the light. It's always "beneath" your feet. It's belly is always "upon the ground". It's always at "dust" level. The brighter the light becomes, the more defined it gets. It's at it's greatest proportion at sunset (Rest) and sunrise (resurrection).
But for it to be present, 'you" must be in direct light. If you walk in or under clouds, it disappears. This is the nature of the soul of man. To me anyway . . .now, in this light, what Scriptures come to you in reference to shadows?
Interesting story, I enjoyed reading about your revelation. It's good that you humbled yourself and admit that you had a 'trojan horse doctrine' lol, just shows that discussing on a forum like this does open people to certain truths, because sometimes we think that discussion can be a waste of time, but then I have to ask myself whether I am discussing in order to try and make people believe what I believe to be true or discussing what God says is true. But sometimes truth can take a long time and sometimes many years for certain people to receive and the ET doctrine is one such doctrine - so readers don't despair if ET believers don't respond quickly :Sparkletooth:
Nathan your post was a blessing. Thank you. Praise the Lord!
It is true that we all speak of "soul" as if there is a separate enitiy inside of our body that is called "the soul." Not true.
Without the spirit there is NO SOUL. Without the body there is NO SOUL.
Take a blue piece of transparent plastic or cellophane. Place it half way over a same size piece of yellow cellophane. You will have blue on one side, yellow, on the other side, and GREEN in the middle.
The blue is the body,the yellow is the spirit, and the GREEN IS THE SOUL. Notice that there is NO SOUL without the blue body and the yellow spirit.
Separate the blue and yellow cellophane and the GREEN soul
disappears. This is exactly how the human soul must be combined with a body and spirit, or IT DOES NOT EVEN EXIST.
They are very closely related and appear to overlap, but
there are distinctions between soul and spirit. Understood?
Good. (L.Ray Smith)
:cloud9: I enjoyed parts of this post Nate, but I just can't agree with all of it.....can I disagree if I'm not disagreeable? :girlheart:
Gen.4:10 And he said , What hast thou done ? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Notice that the blood crieth from the GROUND, and the earth OPENED HER MOUTH to receive it. The word there for "mouth", aside from the obvious, means, an opening, orifice of a well or RIVER, and not coincidentally, a WEIGHT equal to 1/3 of a shekel.
It took FIVE shekels to redeem the firstborn sons. They were silver (silver speaks of redemption) and this speaks of a 5 fingered hand of God to bring about redemption, working in unity IN HIM, AS HIM.
Since we are spirit, soul, and a body that came from the earth, that 1/3 of a shekel weight here, is the body whose soul/blood cries out after being "swallowed" (DESCENDING) by the "earth". Remember what I said in the other thread about "whose god is their BELLIES?"
The word for blood there has another word that comes from it, that being ADAM. Remember He called THEIR name Adam. So what part of Abel was crying out from the ground?
Also, the word there in Genesis for "receive" means, to marry, take a wife (SOUL), to be captured, snatch.
The root word that the word mouth comes from, means "to scatter them into corners, to shatter them, and is only used one place, which is this scripture in Deut. 32 I have quoted below.
Deut. 32: 26 I said , I would scatter them into corners , I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
The corners He scattered us to, are as the 4 parts of our soul, the solution for which is to be tied down to the 4 corners of the altar. This is the same as 4 corners of the earth where He said He would call them in from.
Those parts of us are called, from us moving and having our being expressed thru them, to moving and having our being expressed and centered in Christ, as we when we were one with Him in the foundation, as a man is one with his wife.
Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held : 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as *they were, should be fulfilled.
Notice also, that these "dead" SOULS, cried out from under the altar.....Blessings....
Notice that the blood crieth from the GROUND, and the earth OPENED HER MOUTH to receive it. The word there for "mouth", aside from the obvious, means, an opening, orifice of a well or RIVER, and not coincidentally, a WEIGHT equal to 1/3 of a shekel.
What?
"Mouth" Gen. 4:11 H6310
פּה
peh
peh
From H6284; the mouth (as the means of blowing), whether literally or figuratively (particularly speech); specifically edge, portion or side; adverbially (with preposition) according to: - accord (-ing as, -ing to), after, appointment, assent, collar, command (-ment), X eat, edge, end, entry, + file, hole, X in, mind, mouth, part, portion, X (should) say (-ing), sentence, skirt, sound, speech, X spoken, talk, tenor, X to, + two-edged, wish, word.
What?
"Receive" Gen. 4:11 H3947
לקח
lâqach
law-kakh'
A primitive root; to take (in the widest variety of applications): - accept, bring, buy, carry away, drawn, fetch, get, infold, X many, mingle, place, receive (-ing), reserve, seize, send for, take (away, -ing, up), use, win.
I am sorry but I dont see what you say. Most of the time I understand, but I must be lacking in some way. Peace and Love Through Jesus
:cloud9: Hi Micah....KJV Strongs
Mouth = 06310
peh
mouth
mouth (of man)
mouth (as organ of speech)
mouth (of animals)
mouth, opening, orifice (of a well, river, etc)
extremity, end pim
a weight equal to one third of a shekel
The root word of that word =
Pa'ah - 06284
to cleave in pieces, break into pieces, shatter
to cleave in pieces, dash to pieces
scatter into corners
Receive =
Laqach - 03947
to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away
The only piece of this I can speak to Card, is the souls beneath the altar . . .there's one piece to that you've left out . . . their not just dead souls, they are "martyred" souls.
For me, not being a literalist, but a dimensionalist for those who are labelists . . .I see these martyred souls actually, this place is where my old man goes when "I" willingly kill it . . .thus the martyrdom. All they want in vengeance . . .that's still the nature of soulishness. And they are one, clothed in white linen . . .which for me means they're purified, two, instructed not to wait, but to "rest" a little longer . . something the old man could never do when it was alive in me . . .
As to the blood crying out from the ground . . .there's no indication that the blood is the soul . . .life is in the blood and for me, life is spirit, not soul.
Bottom line for me here though is this . . .the one thing about having a personal relationship with the Father is that . . .if you have one, I let you have it. If I intervene with your personal relationship, then how can it continue to be personal to you if I interfere. That's the beauty about being in the body of Christ, we all see things a bit differently even though we are a part of the same body.
Being the same, seeing things exactly the same . . . it drowns out the "peculiar" part of who we are. You may very well be right. What I'm seeing may not be dead on yet . . .This thing I see doesn't mean I've arrived, it means I'm seeing things more clearly than before. I'm growing "into" it and will hopefully continue to grow.
It's just that right now, what I've shared is what I'm seeing "today". there's always room for it to continue to shift and rearrange in me. As it does, I can continue to share that out as well and we all hopefully can benefit from it.
:cloud9: I understand that Nate, but I'm "where" I'm at too and this is what I see that I'M sharing.....so that HE can water it and give the increase in due season. It's not that I'm trying to be contentious; I personally don't care what anyone believes apart from my desire that has lined up with His in wanting to see HIS purpose done in the earth(s), as it's not my Seed, not my "gardens", not even my "water", technically. :winkgrin:
This is where it's tough to discern the motive of the heart, I know. The net doesn't make it any easier, either. That said, please don't take offense if I continue to share, ok?
I know they were martyred, or put simply they willingly laid down their lives on the altar. The whole purpose of it all is for Him to create "virgin souls", those ARE the white "robes" (the soul is the "robe" for the Spirit) and the, "both individual and collective brides", He "returns" for.
Let me explain. The foundation of the eclesia (which is His body which is SPIRIT) is built upon the foundation of the apostle and prophet, right? I've shared part of this before, but one of them(Elijah/wine/prophet) is represented as one cherubim on the ark of the covenant, and the other one is the other cherubim (Moses/bread/apostle) on the ark. It takes both for true communion, ie. true fellowship with God on the level THEY had in the garden.
So the apostle and prophet also each have a soul, and He joins the two spiritually after cleansing the souls of each. Joined, it is as ONE WOMAN (soul), and is the woman of Jeremiah, the daughter of ZION. This is why He sent the disciples out in TWO'S.
Zion is the highest mountain, Christ IS the mount of God, a daughter is something produced from ZION/Christ. The saviors that stand upon Mt. Zion are both male and female after the flesh literally, and spiritually as well, ie. spirit and soul in union.
Jeremiah 22:23 KJVA
O inhabitant of Lebanon, that makest thy nest in the cedars, how gracious shalt thou be when pangs come upon thee, the pain as of a woman in travail !
Jeremiah 30:6 KJVA
Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child ? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail , and all faces are turned into paleness?
Jeremiah 31:22 KJVA
How long wilt thou go about , O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
This "woman" is the redeemed soul of each of the two in the foundation, joined as one flesh (celestial/spiritually) and HE/the risen Christ, is the man in their midst.
"She" is the robe of Melchisedek, without beginning or end, without NATURAL father and mother, the RESTORED bride, restored back to when "she" was one with Him as a wife is one with her husband, before the FOUNDATION of the world ie. before being lowered into the bondage of vanity/corruption.
What's more, the city that COMES DOWN (the souls are CAUGHT UP, meeting Him in the air, both male and female after the flesh, yes?), New Jerusalem, has walls of stones doesn't it? It's the EPHOD of this "robe", which has ALL TWELVE STONES on it, that "she" receives after "she" is caught up.
This is why no man can take this honor (High Priest) unto Himself, because it comes DOWN and no man BUT CHRIST (either singular or many membered part of His body) has ascended, but He that first DESCENDED.
He is "building" the pattern again, see it??? The two stones in the robe (go back and read what He gave me about stones again in the lake of fire post) are the twins of Song of Solomon (read ALL of Song of Solomon).
Urim & thummim = Lights and Perfections
Faith produces righteousness which produces Lights.
Love produces judgment which produces perfections.
This is why I keep talking about the soul. Blessings....
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
:cloud9: AMEN, that is the CLOUD we are to meet Him in, and the place of authority, the God of heaven AND earth, spirit and soul, possessor of heaven AND earth, Elyon. Blessings...
Elyon. Blessings... :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Amen......and a PS. for the previous post. The word there translated COMPASS is also used in Judges where God told them to surround Jericho 7 times. Jericho means, MOON = soul, the woman is the lesser glory, just as the moon is the lesser glory. Jericho was the first city they conquered upon entrance to the promised land.
The walls/spots/wrinkles that have separated us from Him are brought down so that the redeemed soul/robe of Melchisedek, as mentioned above is cleansed to receive the new "walls" ie. the walls of New Jerusalem, the EPHOD.
God sent JOSHUA (Yahshua) and Rahab, the HARLOT, was saved out that city. Rahab means broad or wide (the path of destruction), but it can also mean to increase, and she did increase as she married/joined herself to Salmon, an ancestor of David and Christ and was commended for her faith in the book of James.
Salmon means, "GARMENT, RAIMENT, OUTER COVERING, MANTLE", he was the father of BOAZ, father in law of Ruth. When He was on the mount His RAIMENT was white as snow. Kinda goes along with our sins are as scarlet, but He will make them white as snow, doesn't it?
Matthew 28:3 KJV
His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
And He DESCENDS with a SHOUT (the walls fell with blast of the trumpets) of the voice of the archangel, Father, we give You praise. Come, Lord, come. Blessings...
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
17 And I perceived another messenger, standing in the sun. And he cries with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which are flying in mid-heaven, "Hither! Be gathered for the great dinner of God,
Quote from: Cardinal on July 02, 2010, 06:52:03 AM
:cloud9: I enjoyed parts of this post Nate, but I just can't agree with all of it.....can I disagree if I'm not disagreeable? :girlheart:
Gen.4:10 And he said , What hast thou done ? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Notice that the blood crieth from the GROUND, and the earth OPENED HER MOUTH to receive it. The word there for "mouth", aside from the obvious, means, an opening, orifice of a well or RIVER, and not coincidentally, a WEIGHT equal to 1/3 of a shekel.
It took FIVE shekels to redeem the firstborn sons. They were silver (silver speaks of redemption) and this speaks of a 5 fingered hand of God to bring about redemption, working in unity IN HIM, AS HIM.
Since we are spirit, soul, and a body that came from the earth, that 1/3 of a shekel weight here, is the body whose soul/blood cries out after being "swallowed" (DESCENDING) by the "earth". Remember what I said in the other thread about "whose god is their BELLIES?"
The word for blood there has another word that comes from it, that being ADAM. Remember He called THEIR name Adam. So what part of Abel was crying out from the ground?
Also, the word there in Genesis for "receive" means, to marry, take a wife (SOUL), to be captured, snatch.
The root word that the word mouth comes from, means "to scatter them into corners, to shatter them, and is only used one place, which is this scripture in Deut. 32 I have quoted below.
Deut. 32: 26 I said , I would scatter them into corners , I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
The corners He scattered us to, are as the 4 parts of our soul, the solution for which is to be tied down to the 4 corners of the altar. This is the same as 4 corners of the earth where He said He would call them in from.
Those parts of us are called, from us moving and having our being expressed thru them, to moving and having our being expressed and centered in Christ, as we when we were one with Him in the foundation, as a man is one with his wife.
Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held : 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as *they were, should be fulfilled.
Notice also, that these "dead" SOULS, cried out from under the altar.....Blessings....
I am at a loss to understanding any of this, should I be sorry for my ignorance? I pray for the understanding of this soul teaching.
:cloud9: Micah, go back and read what we've talked about on this. In the word, when you read anything that appears to pertain to the bride, church, woman, "read" it in your mind as the "soul" of man. There are layers of understanding in the Word.
Begin in Genesis, where He said male and female made He them. They were BOTH made male/spirit and female/soul. Blessings....
I have went back and read and Im afraid I dont see. Im to read in my mind?
"Begin in Genesis, where He said male and female made He them. They were BOTH made male/spirit and female/soul. Blessings...." (Cardinal)
What you are saying is when the Lord God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul, both male and female got a soul? So there were two living souls in Gen. 2:7?
I realize that spirit is masculine and soul is feminine and body is neutral; and if what you say is so, then that rib that was taken out, could not be the soul, for the female already had a soul correct?
:cloud9: He made a woman out of the rib. He gave her a soul and a spirit too. Do not both woman and men have souls and spirits? But you have brought up an interesting point to meditate on......thanks.....will get back to this if I get more revelation. Blessings...
There is ONE Spirit.
Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
Again I must contend that a soul IS a living creature. I believe we need to look further into this "rib" H6763
from H6760 A primitive root; probably to curve;
If we look at this word primarily as "curved" and figuratively (of a door, that is, leaf);
architecturally a timber (especially floor or ceiling) or plank (single or collectively, that is, a flooring): - beem, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).
I believe that this "rib" that formed the woman is a curve (turning), a door(leaf) it became a entrance to knowledge, a chamber, a flooring(foundation) that was the needed help-meet for man/adam to move through God's purpose (Gen 2:17 to Gen 3:6.) I believe this rib/woman was the "awakened mind" of man/adam. I also find it revealing that it is, one body(Eph.4:4) and (Gen 2:24) and they shall be one flesh Let me also ad that this woman or wife, save for several verses in Strongs, is H802 a woman; [adulter]ess, each, every, female, X many, + none, one, + together, wife, woman. Note see H2181
For we are told to repent G3340 to think differently. 2Co 11:3 and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Christ;
Isnt it the mind that the devil/old serpent/nâchash(the whisperer, hisser, enchanter) uses to instigate? Should man/adam have a desire to step to the side of evil/bad in will begin in the mind...this is woman H802
Peace and Love Through Jesus
What we're seeing in some of this is "in me" there is an Adam (spirit) and an Eve (soul) My Eve desires after my Adam, but my Adam is to rule over her . .this is the original aligment God established "in" man.
But when Adam not only ate of the tree of knowledge, but he received it from his Eve, that through chaos into the perfect order of God. Which caused man to no longer walk with God in the cool (breath/spirit) of the day. When I allow my mind to feed my spirit, I can not see the kingdom of spiritual truths because my mind is at emnity with God and doesn't have the capability to operate in the spirit realm. It can observe in it, but the operation part is to come out of my spirit man, not my soulish man.
My mind does become a harlot in that it will bed down with any and every belief that I may encounter. Which is why I'm to take captive my thoughts. I'm not to allow my mind to go down those dark alleys in pursuit of self-gratification from the doctrines of men.
My mind is also a bottomless pit in that there's no rest there. My mind is the adversary against God (definition of satan is adversary). Rather than go into a state of submission voluntarily, my mind becomes defensive, it assumes the role to protect when spiritual truth is not to be protected or defended through carnal means. That's what the story of Peter cutting off the servant of the high priests ear is eluding to as well. Peter felt it was his role to defend Jesus and all it accomplished was to deafen anyone within his reach.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
Nathan quote, "My mind does become a harlot in that it will bed down with any and every belief that I may encounter. Which is why I'm to take captive my thoughts. I'm not to allow my mind to go down those dark alleys in pursuit of self-gratification from the doctrines of men.
My mind is also a bottomless pit in that there's no rest there. My mind is the adversary against God (definition of satan is adversary). Rather than go into a state of submission voluntarily, my mind becomes defensive, it assumes the role to protect when spiritual truth is not to be protected or defended through carnal means. That's what the story of Peter cutting off the servant of the high priests ear is eluding to as well. Peter felt it was his role to defend Jesus and all it accomplished was to deafen anyone within his reach."
You my friend see, that it is the mind that is the culprit of the thoughts that cause the living creature (soul) to walk in the darkness of the knowledge of good and bad. And you said it well. Glory!
Care to go a little deeper? There are two major levels to my awareness. One is my consciousness, the other is my subconsciousness. I'm finding that not only does my consciousness have many similarities . . .too many to be a coincidence . ..with the nature and attributes of my soul; but also in the same light, my subconsciousness has just as many if not more similarities with the nature and attributes to my spirit.
In my subconsiousness, everything seems to be flowing from this mysterious part of my being. My body takes it's orders for life from there . . . I breathe without making a "conscious" effort, my heart pumps, my eyes blink, my ears hear, my eyes see . . .it goes on and on. Yet my actual consciousness not only has no control over how many beats my heart can beat, how many breaths I must have to stay alive, not only is my consiousness not aware of these very necessities for me to even exist. My consciousness doesn't have the first clue as to how to "govern" these things going on in me.
My consciousness seems to be mostly involved with and focused on my five senses. Yet my "subconsciousness" is actually the core source of power in order for life to be existing in me at all. I used to believe my spirit in me was in the lower portions . . .you know, that invisible place somewhere beneath your lungs and heart? But now I see not only my shadow of my soul manifesting the true order and alignment of God in me, but also my spirit's domain is not somewhere under my heart of flesh . .it's really my subconsciousness.
If I can get my consciousness to retract it's constant noise, I can actually hear the sound of the spirit on the other side of my head . . .it's not some eerie invisible being on the outside that I call spirit . . .it's this unexplainable part of me that's on the other side of my conscious awareness state. Is this yet another distraction from the gospel of Christ?
For me, it's another step to putting my old man down and allowing my spirit man to manifest. What again is faith? Believing in what you can't "see". Accepting what you don't "understand". Truth goes beyond the awareness of the minds of men. It's in our subconsciousness. What we simply need to do here now is, restrict our consciousness from drowning out our subconsciousness.
You know? How many times have you driven somewhere and as you drive, your mind totally goes somewhere else? And when you get to where you're going, you may even wonder how you ended up there because you were so absorbed in something else? Your "consciousness" was dwelling heavily on one thing while your "subconcsiousness" got you to your destination without killing you or anyone else around you.
It's in that subconscious state that your spirit manifests. It sustains life . . .on many different levels, but the more I consciously allow it, the more natural it becomes to me. Walking in the spirit is a choice. If it wasn't, Scripture wouldn't direct us to do it. Meditation is a form of exercising walking in the spirit. I believe this is why so many in the general population are drawn to doing it, it "relaxes" your mind. It soothes the soul. But when you meditate on spiritual things . . .Godly things, not just paranormal activity, but when you exercise on the things of God in your meditation, it "empowers" you to be free from the bondage of your carnal self.
Just something to ponder.
Great post and welcome back.
I was on vacation for two weeks . .thanks for the welcome!!
Nathan, Welcome back as well.
I have these two verses that the Bible is very plain on what a soul is. They are what the Bible teachs that man is not 3 parts...body- soul- spirit. ( I ministered that 3 parts of man for over 30 years.)
AndI have not been a believer of the trinity teaching since I left the Lutherans to join the Marines in ' 63. I am poor in math and I could never get 3 out of 1. That said, the body-soul-spirit teaching is a trinity doctrine, and not biblical. That, the Lord showed me just about a year ago.
Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.1Co 15:45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,
I have yet to find in the Bible that man was given a soul or has a soul. Each time one reads soul in a verse in can be easily replaced with, "breath, life, living, being"
Peace and Love Through Jesus.
micah,
We just went through this last week.
Are we made in His Image and likeness?
Does God have a Soul?
Then — so do we.
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 28, 2010, 06:14:26 AM
Nathan, Welcome back as well.
I have these two verses that the Bible is very plain on what a soul is. They are what the Bible teachs that man is not 3 parts...body- soul- spirit. ( I ministered that 3 parts of man for over 30 years.)
AndI have not been a believer of the trinity teaching since I left the Lutherans to join the Marines in ' 63. I am poor in math and I could never get 3 out of 1. That said, the body-soul-spirit teaching is a trinity doctrine, and not biblical. That, the Lord showed me just about a year ago.
Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.1Co 15:45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,
I have yet to find in the Bible that man was given a soul or has a soul. Each time one reads soul in a verse in can be easily replaced with, "breath, life, living, being"
Peace and Love Through Jesus.
I agree but I don't see connection to the trinity teaching, there are also 2 different types of trinity teachings.
When they say body soul and spirit, you could argue that man is a 4 part being body, soul, spirit, head
even 5 part being body, soul, spirit, head, heart. By saying soul they already address spirit and the body, there's no need to go there. So it should be man is a 3 part being, water, blood and spirit or man is a 2 part being body and spirit. I've heard the idea of male and female created he them, but it doesn't explain what female/eve/soul actually is and to me simply explains a principle or shadow of things to come but not an actual reality that we have souls. :2c:
:cloud9: She's the "womb-man".....a helpmeet, used to birth things of spirit out of spirit and into natural. Depending on what spirit, she will reproduce either darkness or light, or until the finishing work is done, a combination of the two. She "births" by giving visibility to the unseen.
Going back to what I've shared about the body (outer court) only doing what it sees it's head (inner court priesthood) do, as I said, the heart of the priesthood must submit to cleansing NOW, because our soul is "birthing" that which we see in the outer court realm, ie. when they see you hate your brother IN YOUR HEART (soul), they go out and kill theirs.
The soul (of the priesthood as well) is reproducing the seed that is planted in it, and if we don't want to partake of the judgment of her sins, it's time to birth the Son. These are spiritual principles, and you're only going to "see" them by quickening of the Spirit. Blessings...
The body is our garment. The soul is our collective "mind-will-emotions-etc", our spirit is "Us", you might say.
Gen 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
Gen 34:3 And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel
His body did not cleave yet, neither did his spirit "himself", his mind, and emotions where enamoured by her, to use a life-experience illustration, when you fall into a crush for someone, your emotions do indeed cleave to the person, your will becomes focused on the person, and your mind becomes filled with thoughts about the person, effectively your soul cleaves. But your spirit, "You" do not cleave to the person, because you have yet to be One Flesh, let alone one Being.
Gen 34:8 And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.
If they are not one Being, and are not one flesh (having not been married despite the rape of Dinah), then why the longing? Separation of mind, will, emotions causes longing, where as oneness would eliminate it.
If they are one Being, and are one flesh because they had lain with each other, then there must be an element of separation that is not present in the flesh, or in the Being (spirits) of the two cloven members. The soul must therefore exist as a separate factor, since it is the longing portion of the man, the continuously longing portion as seen by "long-Eth".
1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Distinct, and assertive notation of "Spirit -and- Soul -and- Body" as separate entities in the one whole individual.
As for the trinity, the Godhead speaks of that. The trinity is a synonymous (though limited in the ability to describe) term used to describe God's nature as the Godhead. If I may ask out of curiousity...if God is not Triune, what is Christ, what is the Holy Spirit?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Mark 5:6-7 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Revelation 22:8-9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Judges 6:34 But the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 28, 2010, 06:22:33 AM
micah,
We just went through this last week.
Are we made in His Image and likeness?
Does God have a Soul?
Then — so do we.
We may have gone through it last week but nothing was shown that man has a soul. Just what do you mean "image and likeness?" What or who is God? Is he not SPIRIT? Soul is NOT spirit. Does God have a soul? Does He? If man has a soul, when did he get it? If the Bible does not teach that man was given a soul or that man has a soul, then why do we say man has a soul? And is there 1 or 2 scriptures for what you say?
Words like emotion, appetite, speak of how a living soul reacts to being alive. I believe man is made up of the dust of the ground and His Spirit. At least thats how I read Gen. 2:7 was anything added after that?
:cloud9: Some very good points, Lefein..... :thumbsup: Blessings....
Spirit is BEING and soul is EXPRESSION.
Lefein
Reg
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Posts: 9
Lefien
Re: Soul food?
« Reply #30 on: Today at 12:29:38 AM » Quote
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The body is our garment. The soul is our collective "mind-will-emotions-etc", our spirit is "Us", you might say.
Can you give me scripture for your thoughts?
This is the 2nd time in the Bible the word soul is used and can be easily be read
Gen 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and I will live because of thee.
1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit breath/life and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You assume a trinity from mens doctrines not the Word of God.
Mal 3:6 For I am Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed.
Deu 6:4 `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 28, 2010, 02:24:43 PM
Spirit is BEING and soul is EXPRESSION.
Again, when did the meaning of what a soul is change from Gen.2:7? I understand what you say, and I can see how the meaning, of what you say evolved, I understand the teaching. I also believe that it is in error. I will concede when Ive been shown in the Word of God that man was given a soul, that man has a soul, that a soul is something other than a living/breathing creature "nephesh"a breathing creature
Expression is what emits from a breathing creature.
1 Samuel 18:1
And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
"was knit"
H7194
קשׁר
qâshar
kaw-shar'
A primitive root; to tie, physically (gird, confine, compact) or mentally (in love, league): - bind (up), (make a) conspire (-acy, -ator), join together, knit, stronger, work [treason].
I believe this a prototype of what will be happening with us. Our souls will be knit together with the soul of Jesus. This is the 144,000 virgins who follow the lamb wherever he goes. Their souls have been knit together with the soul of Christ who gave his soul for us.
45For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life [soul, nephesh] a ransom for many.
--Mark 10
...when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
--Isa 53:10
Here micah,
You like Preston's writings:
www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Echoes/echoes29.htm
Quote from: Molly on July 28, 2010, 02:57:50 PM
1 Samuel 18:1
And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
Replace soul with "life."
"was knit"
H7194
קשׁר
qâshar
kaw-shar'
A primitive root; to tie, physically (gird, confine, compact) or mentally (in love, league): - bind (up), (make a) conspire (-acy, -ator), join together, knit, stronger, work [treason].
I believe this a prototype of what will be happening with us. Our souls will be knit together with the soul of Jesus. This is the 144,000 virgins who follow the lamb wherever he goes. Their souls have been knit together with the soul of Christ who gave his soul for us.
"Our Life will be knit together with the LIFE of Jesus"
45For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life [soul, nephesh] HIS BREATH, HIS LIFE a ransom for many.
--Mark 10
...when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
--Isa 53:10
Pro 4:7 The first thing is wisdom--get wisdom, And with all thy getting get understanding.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 28, 2010, 03:06:02 PM
Here micah,
You like Preston's writings:
www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Echoes/echoes29.htm
I have read and studied Br. Eby for many years, and I have read again the Echos of the Garden. I read it last year hoping to find out more about what was revealed to me. But no.
"Having said all this, let us now apply this beautiful truth spiritually and internally, to Christ the Bridegroom in our spirit,
and to us the bride in our soul. Spiritually, this means that as long as we walk in imperfection and duplicity
THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN HEADSHIP OVER THE SOUL. The soul is commanded to be under obedience and is to be subjected under the authority of the spirit." Eby
Here Bro. Eby tells it well, but how does he get to what he wrote previously? He explains very clearly that soul is a living creature. How did he make a soul something other than what he showed it was here?
"When the spiritual man was lowered into the form of the earth man, the scripture explains that "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Gen 2:7). From the Greek the statement reads, "The first man Adam was made a zoe psuche (living soul)" (I Cor. 15:45). The wonderful simplification of this statement is missed by nearly all who read it or comment upon it. There are two primary words that are translated "life" in our English Bibles – zoe and psuche. Turn your concordance and you will find the Greek word zoe translated life as many or more times than you will find psuche so translated. And zoe is the word that is always translated "eternal" or "eonian" life. The reason for this, as distinguished from psuche (not, animal life) is that zoe is always used to denote spiritual, or everlasting life. Zoe is the life of God. "In Him was Zoe; and the Zoe was the light of men" (Jn. 1:4). "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Zoe; and man became a living soul" (John 5:26). Pusche is natural soul life. This life, Zoe, is the life Jesus promised to give to man when He said, "I give unto them eternal life (Zoe), and they shall never perish." Psuche on the other hand, is the life Jesus said we must lay down or lose in order to gain Zoe life. "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." (Mat. 16:24-25). In the Hebrew text the statement reads, "... and behold, man became a nephesh chaya." The Hebrew word nephesh means "spirit," while chaya, which is derived from the root chai meaning "life," is the generic term for "animal" or "creature." Only man embodies both earthly and divine characteristics which are combined together in such a unique and majestic manner." End Quote
I know and believe Gen.1:27 is prophetic and spiritual, and how he explains the process is good, but as much as I respect Bro. Eby he has shown nothing of what is taught today, in fact he CONFIRMS that soul is a living breathing creature and not a seperate enity of its self.
I have only found this teaching of soul being, the woman, a seperate part of man, that it is the soul that must be won over, in the teachings of men. I followed it, but that does not change what Gen.2:7 and I Cor. 15:45 teaches.
OK, that's great, and that's how it is to you. I can respect that.
What I don't understand is why it is such a thorn in your side.
Are you looking for an audience, approval, confirmation or just venting?
I think they call it a "rant" on the internet. lol.
You seem angry and unpeaceful.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 28, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
OK, that's great, and that's how it is to you. I can respect that.
What I don't understand is why it is such a thorn in your side.
Are you looking for an audience, approval, confirmation or just venting?
I think they call it a "rant" on the internet. lol.
You seem angry and unpeaceful.
Perhaps frustrated. But since it by majority rule that man has a soul, I am going to leave it lie.
I have found out that old habits are hard to break.
Peace and Love Through Jesus
I to have changed from the idea of the trinity as well in that I don't beleive there is a separation between God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. I belive God "is" the compilation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each of those manifest in their own separate ways, but they are all the same God.
I also see that the tabernacle of Moses is a replica, it's a natural illustration of a spiritual reality in that there are three main compartments "within" the tabernacle as a whole. I do see how that outer court resembles the body in that it is illuminated with "natural" light, not to mention both the altar of sacrifice and laver are elementary levels of relationship leading to the intimacy with the Father.
The inner court is illuminated by "cultivated" light. It was up to the priests (man) to maintain the fire, bread, wine it was all based on labor, works and physical activity, much like the soul is directly connected to our five senses.
And the holy of holies resembles the core of God's nature. It's illuminated by spiritual light. It's where his presense dwells. It resembles the living quarters of the spirit. It's the Sabbath realm of Life.
So as there are three major charateristics to the makeup of God, we are his offspring and made of his image on several levels, then I still see man as a spirit living in a body, which manifests a soul through which our personality operates. It has the capability to live in the flesh while walking in the spirit because it's a result of spirit living in flesh.
Words "can" lead you "to" truth, but only the spirit can usher us in it. So while I do give importance to what I read, it's the sound that I now pursue for what to see and what to hear. What I read will change according to what I've already seen. When the Word written in our hearts says something that transforms our thinking, then as we read Scripture, we read "through" what the spirit already revealed to our hearts, which then makes old words manifest new understanding.
That is beautiful, Nathan.
:cloud9: Amen Nathan, good word......and for what it's worth, Micah, I didn't learn about the soul from men, prior to Him speaking to me about 5 times one day "male and female made He THEM", which came with the understanding, I thought the soul and spirit were the same thing until that day when He "hounded" me to press in on that. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on July 28, 2010, 05:39:58 PM
:cloud9: Amen Nathan, good word......and for what it's worth, Micah, I didn't learn about the soul from men, prior to Him speaking to me about 5 times one day "male and female made He THEM", which came with the understanding, I thought the soul and spirit were the same thing until that day when He "hounded" me to press in on that. Blessings....
I have no problem with male and female created He them, never have. I never thought the soul and spirit were the same that is not what the Bible teaches. Why would anyone think that soul and spirit are the same?
I've seen often times in Scripture where it says "soul" but the definition seems to indicate spirit so I guess I could see people blending the two. I myself assumed when death occurs that my soul and spirit would continue on, that only my body would die, but it never really meshed and I didn't know any other way to see it . . .now of course I see it differently but there really isn't a lot of understanding out there when it comes to defining what the soul is. That's mainly why I found this topic to be as interesting as it's been. I've learned a lot just in this short time it's been discussed lated on the forum.
The only reason I can see why soul and spirit can be blended in is because we have over looked what from the very beginning the Word of God tells us what a soul is, and man built on what we imagined the soul to be.
Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life,(that would be His Spirit same as 1:2)
and the man(formed from the dust of the ground)
becometh a living creature.(soul)
We can see beyond any doubt that the dust of the ground is the body of man
The breath of life is the Spirit of God
And that Spirit brings the formed dust(the body) to life(a living soul.)
At least that is how I have begun to understand it. I dont have any intent of causing
discord, that is certainly not my desire.
Well now I "am" confused because it appears that what you just said is exactly how I see it as well. My soul came to be, it began manifesting when my spirit entered into my flesh. It's the operative nature of me in both the invisible and in the visible. It can observe spiritual matters and it can operate natural responses. It also unfortunately can be tempted by the natural as well. But because of the relationship with the Father, who is spirit, my soul continues to remain in contact with my spirit and can hear the longing and calling for realgnment when I get my "self" in the way of my spirit.
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 28, 2010, 07:31:55 PMGen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life,(that would be His Spirit same as 1:2)
1:2 ruwach
2:7 neshamah
Quote from: Nathan on July 28, 2010, 07:43:49 PM
Well now I "am" confused because it appears that what you just said is exactly how I see it as well. My soul came to be, it began manifesting when my spirit entered into my flesh. It's the operative nature of me in both the invisible and in the visible. It can observe spiritual matters and it can operate natural responses. It also unfortunately can be tempted by the natural as well. But because of the relationship with the Father, who is spirit, my soul continues to remain in contact with my spirit and can hear the longing and calling for realgnment when I get my "self" in the way of my spirit.
I never said anything about a soul coming to be, the soul didnt begin manifesting, the soul is the living creature. If by "it" you mean "I" then I can agree. " The "soul (man) that sinneth it shall die." Ezk. 18:4 and 20
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2010, 07:48:31 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 28, 2010, 07:31:55 PMGen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life,(that would be His Spirit same as 1:2)
1:2 ruwach
2:7 neshamah
Thank you! that even makes it better. But I must ask, is it not the same? If not then is Eph. 4:4 stating it in error?
QuoteCan you give me scripture for your thoughts?
This is the 2nd time in the Bible the word soul is used and can be easily be read
Gen 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and I will live because of thee.
"I will live, because you told them you are my sister, and not my wife, for which they might murder me because they want to take you as their own"
That is the general idea I gather from it atleast.
Quote1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit breath/life and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yet, the bible states: Spirit and Soul and Body, not Breath and Body
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole
pneuma (spirit, this is the breath) and
psuche (soul, psuche from which we get the word psyche for mind; which is the will-emotions, expressions of such, and etc) and
soma (body) be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
QuoteYou assume a trinity from mens doctrines not the Word of God.
Not so, I believe in a triune manifestation of the one God; effectively The Trinity,
because of scripture. The scriptures I put up before, and from the count of them, they are many. I have reason to be secure and certain.
QuoteMal 3:6 For I am Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed.
Deu 6:4 `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God, and the word became flesh.
Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. In the beginning was the word: The word was
with God
In the beginning was the word: The word
was God
The word became flesh: Jesus
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of
my Father which is in heaven.Jesus often talked about his Father as a "separate-sort" of entity that he was yet one with. Separate though only in terms of manifestation of the One God.
The Trinity is this: God as a triune of three co-existing manifestations of The One God as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, or synonymously known as The Godhead: It is Biblically supported, and I will testify that it is not by the doctrine's of Tradition that I cater to this theology, but by a system of two/three witnesses.
The Scriptures, Reason, Witness to Conscience.
The scriptures I've gone through. Reason; God is One, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, God the Father is God, they are not three gods, so they have to be manifestations of One that co-exist. Illustrations include: Water = Ice, liquid, vapour. Or better yet Space-Time-Matter = One Universe.
The witness to Conscience is the effect of both Scripture and Reason impressing my being to acceptance of Truth.
But Micah, if I can try to gain some understanding...What
is your view exactly?
Im sorry I cant. As long as one holds the theological idea that the soul is a seperate entity, I cant.
As for the trinity I find none of your verses establishing that.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
Joh 1:2 this one was in the beginning with God;
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.'
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?
Why wouldnt John have said SOMETHING about God being more than ONE?
Deu 6:4 `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
I, thank the Lord, I know and understand that He Is ONE.
Because the Trinity does not imply that there is more than one God.
On a side note however: The soul is as separate an entity from our Spirit as in the same way that our brain is not our atria. Yet the body is certainly one individual.
I thank the Lord, that I know that Christ, The Holy Spirit, and The Father are One, yet co-exist, giving me assurance of his majesty.
Man is water blood and spirit
John's epistle
So the blood is body
Water is female/soul
Spirit/ breath of God
Does it make sense that water could be soul?
Scientists have concluded that water stores information and thinks, so maybe the soul thinks, the spirit energizes and the blood gives life to the body.
This is something im just throwing out there and see what comes back, hopefully not a pack of dogs :laughing7:
Quote from: thinktank on July 28, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
Man is water blood and spirit
John's epistle
So the blood is body
Water is female/soul
Spirit/ breath of God
Does it make sense that water could be soul?
Scientists have concluded that water stores information and thinks, so maybe the soul thinks, the spirit energizes and the blood gives life to the body.
This is something im just throwing out there and see what comes back, hopefully not a pack of dogs :laughing7:
Water can certainly store certain types of information by it's state and mineral content. But, I'm lost to figure out what you mean by water can think. Can you explain?
Quote...hopefully not a pack of dogs
woof!
rivers of living water=the immortal soul?
John 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."belly"G2836
κοιλία
koiliakoy-lee'-ah
From κοιλος koilos ("hollow");
a cavity, that is, (specifically) the abdomen; by implication
the matrix; figuratively [/b]the heart[/b]: - belly,
womb.1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.--Rev22
1 John 5:8
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
Water by sheer thought as to the culture of the East where Israel is set, would be connected to Life. The river, the rains, etc. Wells in the desert. :)
woof!
Love it Molly!
Quote from: shawn on July 29, 2010, 12:09:42 AM
Quote from: thinktank on July 28, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
Man is water blood and spirit
John's epistle
So the blood is body
Water is female/soul
Spirit/ breath of God
Does it make sense that water could be soul?
Scientists have concluded that water stores information and thinks, so maybe the soul thinks, the spirit energizes and the blood gives life to the body.
This is something im just throwing out there and see what comes back, hopefully not a pack of dogs :laughing7:
Water can certainly store certain types of information by it's state and mineral content. But, I'm lost to figure out what you mean by water can think. Can you explain?
I'm not sure but it just came to me and I thought I'd share.
1 John 5:8
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
Cardinal is convinced that male and female created he them, means that the female part is the soul part. So if I take the breath, the dust and the soul, then man becomes a living soul.
So if, breath is spirit, body is blood, then water might be soul. So im trying to figure out what exactly is soul and perhaps if I assign it to water here in 1 john 5:8 then it might give some clues.
I might have it the wrong way round though. Water/soul might be the energizer or life and that spirit is the one that thinks. There is a scripture in Romans I think or Corinthians, where it says who knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man who is in him. So maybe soul/water is the energy or life that sustains man. :2c:
:cloud9: In my study of some Hebrew words today, I found that the Hebrew word for womb/belly, also figuratively means, Sheol.........since the soul is not submissive to the Spirit by it's very nature, this is not surprising. No way are they one and the same, until He makes them ONE. Blessings....
PS...Er.....WOOF! :winkgrin:
THAT'S IT !
Thanks, Card.
woof
Quote from: thinktank on July 29, 2010, 02:12:27 AM
So if, breath is spirit, body is blood, then water might be soul. So im trying to figure out what exactly is soul and perhaps if I assign it to water here in 1 john 5:8 then it might give some clues.
I might have it the wrong way round though. Water/soul might be the energizer or life and that spirit is the one that thinks. There is a scripture in Romans I think or Corinthians, where it says who knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man who is in him. So maybe soul/water is the energy or life that sustains man. :2c:
KJVRev. 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
KJVRev. 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
KJVRev. 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Quote from: thinktank on July 29, 2010, 02:12:27 AM
Quote from: shawn on July 29, 2010, 12:09:42 AM
Quote from: thinktank on July 28, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
Man is water blood and spirit
John's epistle
So the blood is body
Water is female/soul
Spirit/ breath of God
Does it make sense that water could be soul?
Scientists have concluded that water stores information and thinks, so maybe the soul thinks, the spirit energizes and the blood gives life to the body.
This is something im just throwing out there and see what comes back, hopefully not a pack of dogs :laughing7:
Water can certainly store certain types of information by it's state and mineral content. But, I'm lost to figure out what you mean by water can think. Can you explain?
I'm not sure but it just came to me and I thought I'd share.
1 John 5:8
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
Cardinal is convinced that male and female created he them, means that the female part is the soul part. So if I take the breath, the dust and the soul, then man becomes a living soul.
So if, breath is spirit, body is blood, then water might be soul. So im trying to figure out what exactly is soul and perhaps if I assign it to water here in 1 john 5:8 then it might give some clues.
I might have it the wrong way round though. Water/soul might be the energizer or life and that spirit is the one that thinks. There is a scripture in Romans I think or Corinthians, where it says who knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man who is in him. So maybe soul/water is the energy or life that sustains man. :2c:
See, this is where things get exciting more me. You're thinking from within now. You're mind doesn't fully comprehend what it's seeing, but as you share it, your mind digests it and it births into something wonderful. Yes, what makes up "man" but spirit, water, and blood? Scripture states that life is in the blood. My body is almost all water, and my spirit is obviously spirit, but life is in the blood. When my spirit first was ushered into my body, blood manifested. The existance of blood is the evidence of life. It's the evidence that there's a spirit dwelling in this body. That's why it says they're in agreement. You can't "be" a "being" unless all three of these elements are manfesting in you. Remove one, and the other two stop manifesting.
It's the same with "God". Remove the Son from the equasion and God no longer manifests. How do we remove the Son? There was a religious movement a while back that was all about "Jesus Only". that would be one way.
Peter gave us another example on the mount of transfiguration by wanting to build an altar to the three elements separately. But when we pursue Christ, it's as Jesus said . . .love your neighbor and love God. All other laws hang from these two foundational truths. Love and Love. Both are built on relationship. Not knowledge about God and not denominations defending God. True relationship with the Father births revelation of the nature of the Son.