Some things in Matthew I came across last night. =]

[Fang_Diachi]

Im fairly new to the concept of UR, and was reading Matthews last night, and found some things that appear to teach ET or just the fact that all men wont be saved overall. :thumbdown: I thought I would post them here for you people to help me out with. =] ---New International Version Bible used---

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.



Matthew  5:22
...But anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

This part of the verse gets me. I know hell is really a gravesite where people were burned, I learned this a while back. But I do not understand, is he then saying... "Will be in danger of the fire of the graveyard?" That sort of makes sense to me but I need some clarification. =]



Matthew 5:30
,,,It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Is this just saying that you will die? "For your whole body to go into the graveyard" I need some clarification. =]



Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you, Away from me you evildoers."



And theres one verse that is very popular, and does not deal with UR or ET, however I would like to know about it.

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

^^^ :eek: :omg:
How is the devil able to offer the world to Jesus? I do not understand this.

Thanks for all your help ahead of time. =]

[martincisneros]

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

^^^ :eek: :omg:
How is the devil able to offer the world to Jesus? I do not understand this.

Adam signed over the least to the devil in the Garden of Eden.  God frequently took the blame for the devil's activities in the Old Testament because those people were spiritually dead men and whenever there was the slightest revelation about Satan, the people would follow him by the droves.  So, God was very careful in what He said about him and left many, many things as "the Lord did it," the Lord "allowed it," etc. 

Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ though and He said that the thief cometh not but for to steal, to kill, and to destroy, while I am come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)  James 1 says that there's no variation in God's light, that only perfect and good gifts come from Him, that God's not the source of any man's temptation, etc.  1John echoes the same theme in chapter 1, verse 5 in saying that there's absolutely no darkness in Him at all. 

Jesus dethroned unseen principalities and powers and made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in His crucifixion, therefore the Jacob's ladder situation doesn't exist any more.  Hebrews 1:14 says that the angels are all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for the heirs of salvation.  They minister for us, not to us.  The struggles that Daniel had in the Old Testament should be nonexistent to the believer seated with Christ at the right hand of God because Daniel didn't have the Name whereby to be saved from that Satanic opposition to him getting the answers he needed.  But Jesus said that the all-knowing Holy Spirit is within us now, teaching us all things, and showing us absolutely everything to come. 

Absolutely all of the Old Testament limits are gone, and Jesus emptied the underworld according to St. Peter's writings.  Right now we're under the stewardship of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers according to Ephesians 4, but in 1John chapters 2 and 3 it says that when Christ returns to bring us to the New Earth that then we'll have no need that anyone should teach us because of the development in the anointing that we've had during this present eon. 

Satan owned it all until Jesus Christ overthrew him by becoming obedient to death.  The book of Hebrews says that the heavenly utensils of worship had to be cleansed by the Blood of Christ.  Adam's treason went all of the way to the throne of God, but didn't include the throne of God.  So, Jesus tasted death for all, except for God.

[Fang_Diachi]

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

^^^ :eek: :omg:
How is the devil able to offer the world to Jesus? I do not understand this.

Adam signed over the least to the devil in the Garden of Eden.  God frequently took the blame for the devil's activities in the Old Testament because those people were spiritually dead men and whenever there was the slightest revelation about Satan, the people would follow him by the droves.  So, God was very careful in what He said about him and left many, many things as "the Lord did it," the Lord "allowed it," etc. 

Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ though and He said that the thief cometh not but for to steal, to kill, and to destroy, while I am come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)  James 1 says that there's no variation in God's light, that only perfect and good gifts come from Him, that God's not the source of any man's temptation, etc.  1John echoes the same theme in chapter 1, verse 5 in saying that there's absolutely no darkness in Him at all. 

Jesus dethroned unseen principalities and powers and made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in His crucifixion, therefore the Jacob's ladder situation doesn't exist any more.  Hebrews 1:14 says that the angels are all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for the heirs of salvation.  They minister for us, not to us.  The struggles that Daniel had in the Old Testament should be nonexistent to the believer seated with Christ at the right hand of God because Daniel didn't have the Name whereby to be saved from that Satanic opposition to him getting the answers he needed.  But Jesus said that the all-knowing Holy Spirit is within us now, teaching us all things, and showing us absolutely everything to come. 

Absolutely all of the Old Testament limits are gone, and Jesus emptied the underworld according to St. Peter's writings.  Right now we're under the stewardship of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers according to Ephesians 4, but in 1John chapters 2 and 3 it says that when Christ returns to bring us to the New Earth that then we'll have no need that anyone should teach us because of the development in the anointing that we've had during this present eon. 

Satan owned it all until Jesus Christ overthrew him by becoming obedient to death.  The book of Hebrews says that the heavenly utensils of worship had to be cleansed by the Blood of Christ.  Adam's treason went all of the way to the throne of God, but didn't include the throne of God.  So, Jesus tasted death for all, except for God.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me. =]

[Paul Hazelwood]

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hi Fang,

Just a responce to this verse and any percieved tone in my letter here is not directed "at" you.

I think often times more is read into a verse than what is there.   One question I ask is if a person can prove that their righteousness has surpassed that of the pharasees.  And then if I get a list of "Evidence" I point out all the verses in the bible showing that to surpass the pharasees is to not sin in our heart as well.   We can murder and despise and hate in our heart in silence all with a glorious smile on our face and a hand shake too!!!!! 

Since we all fall short, then if that verse is truly telling us of a fate concerning eternal hell, then everyone is going.

Secondly in all seriousness some verses in scripture are just statments of fact of how it is. 

Why could it not simply be a reassurance of how wonderful the kingdom will be since everyone will surpass that righteousness when we arrive?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Fang, just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring your question, but UR has not been a major study for me, so I'm bowing out of this one in deference to the ones who are more seasoned in it, and there are several posters on here who are, so you're in good hands.

BTW, I know it's true, because He gave me a revelation on it, but it is just not something that He has led me to dig deep into. His love and blessings to you.....

[Fang_Diachi]

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hi Fang,

Just a responce to this verse and any percieved tone in my letter here is not directed "at" you.

I think often times more is read into a verse than what is there.   One question I ask is if a person can prove that their righteousness has surpassed that of the pharasees.  And then if I get a list of "Evidence" I point out all the verses in the bible showing that to surpass the pharasees is to not sin in our heart as well.   We can murder and despise and hate in our heart in silence all with a glorious smile on our face and a hand shake too!!!!! 

Since we all fall short, then if that verse is truly telling us of a fate concerning eternal hell, then everyone is going.

Secondly in all seriousness some verses in scripture are just statments of fact of how it is. 

Why could it not simply be a reassurance of how wonderful the kingdom will be since everyone will surpass that righteousness when we arrive?

I do not know how I can respond but to study further. I am like Cardinal in that I am new to UR, yet I feel in my heart that I have found something amazing so all I can go on is the Bible, and others testimonies for help explaining verses like these.

Paul, would you please let me see the list of verses that were sent to you, the "evidence" for me to see for myself. =]

[CHB]

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Fang,

I will tell you how I see the verses that mention some not entering the kingdom of heaven because of unrighteousness, or being idolaters, liars, whoremongers, and unbelieving.

No one will enter the kingdom of heaven while they are sinful, unrighteous, or unclean, but that doesn't mean they won't ever enter into it. God will cleanse those who are filthy, unrighteous, idolaters, liars, whoremongers, and unbelievers, then they will be able to enter into the kingdom.  God won't allow sin to enter into his kingdom but no fear, we will ALL be there, after we have been cleansed. That is what these verses are referring to   (1Cor. 3:13-15).

CHB

[sven]

Matthew 5:30

And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.

sheol, sometimes translated hell is the grave, gehenna was a waste dump outside jerusalem, the valley of hinnom

in my view, the kingdom of heaven is the messianic kingdom on earth, the unrightious will have indeed no part in it, they will be resurrected later, but i think one day, there might be no more kingdom at all

1. corinthians 15:22

for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,  then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power

[Mark Christopher]

Im fairly new to the concept of UR, and was reading Matthews last night, and found some things that appear to teach ET or just the fact that all men wont be saved overall. :thumbdown: I thought I would post them here for you people to help me out with. =] ---New International Version Bible used---

Matthew is a really tough Book in a lot of places.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

This might actually be more of a shot at the Pharisees , than just an admonishment to us.

Matthew  5:22
...But anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

This part of the verse gets me. I know hell is really a gravesite where people were burned, I learned this a while back. But I do not understand, is he then saying... "Will be in danger of the fire of the graveyard?" That sort of makes sense to me but I need some clarification. =]

The word for fool here is "Raca" which is an extremely contemptuous put down used in hatred.
Jesus is saying that this kind of hatred is equal to murder. The word for hell is "Geenna" the place in the valley of Hinnom, a constantly burning garbage dump where executed murders were probably dumped. But, I have heard the Pharisees used Geenna as a name for hell.
But still, that might just make it a back at you to them.

Matthew 5:30
,,,It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Is this just saying that you will die? "For your whole body to go into the graveyard" I need some clarification. =]

He's saying  Geenna slash garbage heap again, not grave. Young's Literal Translation
Helps separate all the "hells" better.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%20%205:22;&version=15;

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you, Away from me you evildoers."

And theres one verse that is very popular, and does not deal with UR or ET, however I would like to know about it.

This is usually attributed to false prophets, healers, televangelists who appear to do mighty things in the name of Jesus, but are really interested in personal fame and fortune. They don't actually have a relationship with Jesus. I like Eugene Peterson's interpretation of this in "The Message"
"Knowing the correct password—saying 'Master, Master,' for instance— isn't going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, 'Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.' And do you know what I am going to say? 'You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don't impress me one bit. You're out of here.'
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:21;&version=65;

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

^^^ :eek: :omg:
How is the devil able to offer the world to Jesus? I do not understand this.

First off Satan is an egomaniac. Can't add anything more than Martin already covered.

[ScarletWren]

hmmm,

I've heard of this theory that Adam signed over the lease to Satan, but I have my doubts.  For one reason, where does Jubilee fit into that scenario?  When the Israelites finally conquered Canaan, God parcelled out the land to them, but made it very clear that the land was His and that the original owners could only lease it out for a set number of years (49).  After that it returned to the original owner, or at least a surviving descendant.  If God could parcel it out, then how could it be in any way under Satan's control? 

Satan is said to be the prince of this world, yet he can't do anything that God does not give permission for.  I am more in tune with what A.P. Adams said about the first account of creation....that it is an overview of what God plans and that man really has never had dominion over the earth as of yet, but that the second account is the beginning of the actual historical account and if I remember correctly, there was never anything spoken of in the second account of man having dominion.  If that is true, then he could not give Satan any lease.  I had never actually looked point by point at each account, till I read that article.  For some reason it made sense to me.  If it doesn't to someone else, well, there is liberty.

I think the problem that many have in reading scriptures is that "the Kingdom of Heaven' has been presented as being the place where believers go after death as opposed to the place unbelievers go.  I believe that's incorrect.  It can and is among us today, as well as in the future age.  Those who enter it at its first appearance will be blessed and will get to reign in some capacity, those who were not chosen to inherit it in the first age, perhaps more, will have to wait until they are cleansed and perfected before they can enter in. But all will enter in in their appointed time.

Spiritual salvation is instantaneous, soul salvation is a much longer process and entails rewards, loss, etc.  It gets frustrating that we don't think alike in all aspects but iron sharpens iron and none of us have all the truth, as yet we see through a glass dimly and can only agree with what seems right to us.

But as for me, once I realized ET was a terrible myth, I could relax and let God deal with the other issues.  Not that I don't ponder over some and wrestle with others, but I'm still a lot calmer and happier.

Happy hunting to all.

After all, isn't the journey half the fun of the trip?

[reFORMer]

So many if they stood in Jesus' place would respond to the vision of the power and glory of the kingdoms of this world and being offered them in exchange for worshipping the one offering it with, "Yea Lord! speak for thy servant heareth!"

But when two appearing as Moses and Elijah in glory begin to discuss with us how it's God's will for us to go to the capitol city, be arrested by wicked men, and after a travesty of a trial will torture us to death, we'd respond, "I rebuke you Satan!"

[Cardinal]

I think the problem that many have in reading scriptures is that "the Kingdom of Heaven' has been presented as being the place where believers go after death as opposed to the place unbelievers go.  I believe that's incorrect.  It can and is among us today, as well as in the future age.  Those who enter it at its first appearance will be blessed and will get to reign in some capacity, those who were not chosen to inherit it in the first age, perhaps more, will have to wait until they are cleansed and perfected before they can enter in. But all will enter in in their appointed time.

Spiritual salvation is instantaneous, soul salvation is a much longer process and entails rewards, loss, etc. 

:cloud9: AMEN!

[peacemaker]

How is the devil able to offer the world to Jesus? I do not understand this.

Depends on the understanding of who, or what is Satan. However, this devil was merely a tempter.

"Buying real things with imaginary money is a bad idea; some numbers don't add up."

There are only two things which tempt a man; that which comes from within himself, or that from the heart of another. Jesus dealt with both of these in the flesh. Indeed, search the Scriptures.

peacemaker

[martincisneros]

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus usually acted out the Word of the Old Testament that was being taught in the Synogogue at the time.  When Jesus said this, they had very likely either that day or at least that week had a reading in the Synogogue from 1Samuel 24 and Jesus would have been calling the Pharisees "Saul" and those that would enter into the Kingdom "David."  Read or Reread 1Samuel 24 on this verse in Matthew 5:20.  It's amazing how many times I've noticed people around here say about this or that in the Gospels or Acts that "oh, that was only talking to the Jews," but then they don't tie it to the Old Testament reference that Jesus or the Apostles were alluding to. 

If something was exclusively addressed to the Jews, then it'll stand the test/research of coming up with the Old Testament references that would have been understood by that religious crowd that Jesus and the Apostles were addressing.  I don't know what the doctrine of the Pharisees was at that time regarding violence, but clearly Jesus was going there on saying "just don't be like they are and it's all cool."  Remember, Jesus was the New David and the Pharisees were behaving like Saul in trying to pursue Him to the death.  So, Jesus was constantly fleeing, hiding Himself from them when they would have taken Him by force, etc., 'cause His hour hadn't yet come.  All of those references in the Gospels are included to give the parallels to David.  They didn't care what it took to get it done.  They were going to protect what they considered their place with the Romans and with the community.  They were politically correct and they were trying to save their own koshur bacon at all costs.  In their eyes, it didn't matter what God wanted.  This is one of the very few places where I like the NIV 'cause I genuinely believe it's about the only translation that gets it right:

8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel...(2Timothy 2:8)

But Lord Jesus is still looking for members of the House of Saul that He might show them His Covenant Fidelity.  I'm not nearly as ready to write off the Church as a few people are around here, and as folks are at the BT forum 'cause Mephibosheths are still being brought to Christ Jesus through it.  Even in the worst case scenario imaginable with the mainstream Church and their ET paradigm -- even in the worst case scenario imaginable, David wouldn't touch Saul because he had been God's Anointed because David's righteousness exceeded Saul's according to 1Samuel 24.  Criticizing the mainstream Church is not having your righteousness exceed that of the Pharisees and it is a sin against the modern Mephibosheths and the New David that's at God's right hand.  Matthew 5:20 is a tough lesson for many.  For many that even come around here from time to time, it's like forcing their mouths open and pouring boiling coffee down their throat.  But Jesus said it, so...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup: That's very true Martin, and also He woos the Shulamite, He doesn't tell her how bad she is, so we are to love her and treat her with the same respect He does.

But there is balance, and if He shows why the system they are being held in is wrong, then we have to bring that forth too, else those that are being called outside the camp, may not understand why and be imprisoned by guilt or turn against God.

I have met many wounded who have left the church (s), and are eaten up with guilt and have fallen into the ways of the flesh again, because they think they are the "wrong" ones, so "what does it matter anymore?"

By the grace of God, may we all hear a word in season, to know how to minister what to whom, Amen? Blessings to you....

[Taffy]

Criticizing the mainstream Church is not having your righteousness exceed that of the Pharisees and it is a sin against the modern Mephibosheths and the New David that's at God's right hand.

Amen Bro, enjoyed the rest of the post too :icon_flower:

[ScarletWren]

I agree we should not set ourselves above those in the 'churches'.  I despise a lot of what they teach, but I love many of the brothers and sisters who attend.

[peacemaker]

Ditto Martin :goodpost:

peacemaker