Need help with this verse

[Colleen]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

[jabcat]

colleen, others will join in with more specific-to-your-point input.  I'd like to take a step with this though;  IMO, we aren't joined to Him by grace through the GIFT of faith, then required to somehow hang on through our own strength and works - to remain in Him.  As Paul said, "Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort?".  Also, Jesus said He'd never leave us or forsake us.

So starting right there, it seems to me there's "more to the story" than what your friend is presenting.  Like the assumption so often made that "the broad road that leads to destruction" automatically means "hell"/eternal torment.   :2c:

Quick note - those who don't believe in ET but instead believe in annihilation, might say this passage describes the absolute end of the wicked.

Now somebody else lay some spiritual scriptural knowledge on us!   :bigGrin:

[ded2daworld]

"If you do not remain in me..." implies that Jesus is referring to believers that are IN Christ and then go on their merry way forgetting the grace that was bestowed on them and regarding salvation(in this life) as not worth it. They will be in the lake of fire for cleansing after death but essentially, their lives on earth have been wasted and useless like broken branches that have died inside. Not remaining in Jesus, we die spiritually. Some only fall down but get back up. All the above is IMO.

[jabcat]

Another note for the discussion;  some translations have it as "abide" (be in) rather than remain (having been, but left).  May not make a difference regarding the main point of the discussion, but I thought it worth mentioning.  :2c:

[Ross]

An interesting scripture for such people;
1 Cor 3;13-15 " Of each the work will be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it because IT IS REVEALED IN THE FIRE, and the fire shall prove what kind of work is the work of each:
if of any one the work does remain that he built on it he shall receive a wage;
if of any one the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, AND HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, but as through fire."

[jabcat]

An interesting scripture for such people;
1 Cor 3;13-15 " Of each the work will be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it because IT IS REVEALED IN THE FIRE, and the fire shall prove what kind of work is the work of each:
if of any one the work does remain that he built on it he shall receive a wage;
if of any one the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, AND HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, but as through fire."

Very good!   :thumbsup:

[Tom]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

"Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."" (Matthew 15:24)

Church folks confuse the evangel of the Circumcision with the evangel of the Uncircumcision because church doctrine mixes them and actually seems to prefer the evangel of the Uncircumcision. That's why some church folks think the church has taken Israel's place, but God has simply paused in his dealings with Israel while the nations are being evangelized. The evangel for today is the distinct evangel given to Paul by the risen Christ who only came to minister to his own people, the Jews, before he was crucified. We are the body of Christ, the ecclesia of the nations, saved in grace through faith apart from Hebrew law. When church folks take the words of Christ out of context to try to prove torture forever in fire, they are quoting from text that does not apply to us. Christ never preached the common myth of "hell" anyway for anybody. That is only assumed because "Gehenna" has been intentionally mistranslated as "hell" by the church twelve times to deceive its followers into believing in torture forever in fire: Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6. "Gehenna" actually refers to the ravine of Hinnom, southwest of Jerusalem, used by the ancient apostate Jews to sacrifice their children in fire to Moloch, an Ammonite god, and later used to burn the corpses of criminals condemned to death as it will be in the coming eon. When Christ spoke of Gehenna, he was referring to Isaiah 66:23,24.

"And it will come to be, as often as the new moon comes in its monthly time, And as often as the sabbath comes in its sabbath cycle, All flesh shall come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and see the corpses of the mortals who transgressed against Me, For their worm shall not die, And their fire shall not be quenched, And they will become a repulsion to all flesh." (Isaiah 66:23,24)

""I am the Grapevine. You are the branches. He who is remaining in Me, and I in him, this one is bringing forth much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone should not be remaining in Me, he was cast out as a branch, and it withered. And they are gathering them, and into the fire are they casting them, and they are being burned."" (John 15:5,6)

"5 He now restates the truth as to the vine. Only those with Him are the branches. Israel as a nation has no part in Him.

6 The salvation proclaimed by our Lord and the twelve apostles was probational. There was always the danger of "drifting by" (Heb.2:1). They were His house if they retained the boldness and glorying of the expectation confirmed unto the consummation (Heb.3:6). They could withdraw from the living God (Heb.3:12). Many of those once enlightened fell aside (Heb.6:4-6). Such are those who did not remain in the vine, but withered and were destroyed. We, however, are not in the vine, but members of the body of Christ. And the members of a body cannot be lopped off like the branches of a vine. We are saved by grace, and do not depend on our own abiding, but on His power and love. We are vitally and organically a part of Christ Himself. He would be maimed by the excision of members of His body. How thankful we should be that we are not branches in that vine!" (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament pages 165,166)

[WhiteWings]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

"Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."" (Matthew 15:24)

Church folks confuse the evangel of the Circumcision with the evangel of the Uncircumcision because church doctrine mixes them and actually seems to prefer the evangel of the Uncircumcision. That's why some church folks think the church has taken Israel's place, but God has simply paused in his dealings with Israel while the nations are being evangelized. The evangel for today is the distinct evangel given to Paul by the risen Christ who only came to minister to his own people, the Jews, before he was crucified. We are the body of Christ, the ecclesia of the nations, saved in grace through faith apart from Hebrew law.

I wonder if that's true Tom.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Sounds like there are only 2 groups. In and out of Christ.

[JulieTang84]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

"Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."" (Matthew 15:24)

Church folks confuse the evangel of the Circumcision with the evangel of the Uncircumcision because church doctrine mixes them and actually seems to prefer the evangel of the Uncircumcision. That's why some church folks think the church has taken Israel's place, but God has simply paused in his dealings with Israel while the nations are being evangelized. The evangel for today is the distinct evangel given to Paul by the risen Christ who only came to minister to his own people, the Jews, before he was crucified. We are the body of Christ, the ecclesia of the nations, saved in grace through faith apart from Hebrew law.

I wonder if that's true Tom.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Sounds like there are only 2 groups. In and out of Christ.

The following is contraversial but Paul was a UR'er and it covers everyone.


1Cr 3:11. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

The last vs say it all. Though the builder may lose everything, he/she will saved as though passing through the flames.

Love Julie   :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

"Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."" (Matthew 15:24)

Church folks confuse the evangel of the Circumcision with the evangel of the Uncircumcision because church doctrine mixes them and actually seems to prefer the evangel of the Uncircumcision. That's why some church folks think the church has taken Israel's place, but God has simply paused in his dealings with Israel while the nations are being evangelized. The evangel for today is the distinct evangel given to Paul by the risen Christ who only came to minister to his own people, the Jews, before he was crucified. We are the body of Christ, the ecclesia of the nations, saved in grace through faith apart from Hebrew law.

I wonder if that's true Tom.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Sounds like there are only 2 groups. In and out of Christ.

"For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ, in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27,28)

"27 Baptism, as practiced in Paul's early ministry, was a symbol of unity with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. "As many as" shows that not all the Galatians had been baptized. Nevertheless the truth of unity with Christ held for all, for in Him all physical distinctions vanish. In service, or in the Lord, the slave was still a slave, the sexes were still recognized, but in Christ, by faith, all have the same high place of privilege. All are entitled to the promise and the righteousness which comes by faith in God." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 282)

I think Galatians 3:27,28 refers to the Jews in the body of Christ. Israel had rejected Christ and killed him, but there are some Jewish believers. The text says, "there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus" because we are all one in spirit, right? I think there are Jews who will be snatched away in the body of Christ to meet him in the air for a celestial destiny, but the future expectation of Israel has always been the earthly kingdom in Jerusalem ruled by Messiah, right? I think that's why Christ waited until after he was crucified and resurrected to appear to Saul on the road to Damascus outside Israel to commission him to the nations with the distinct evangel of grace apart from law. 

"8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Now God is conciliated to mankind through the death of his son, but there are many in mankind who are not yet conciliated to God.

"16 So that we, from now on, are acquainted with no one according to flesh. Yet even if we have known Christ according to flesh, nevertheless now we know Him so no longer.
17 So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new!
18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
20 For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We are beseeching for Christ's sake, "Be conciliated to God!"" (2 Corinthians 5:16-20)

"1 On this behalf I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you, the nations --
2 since you surely hear of the administration of the grace of God that is given to me for you,
3 for by revelation the secret is made known to me (according as I write before, in brief,
4 by which you who are reading are able to apprehend my understanding in the secret of the Christ,
5 which, in other generations, is not made known to the sons of humanity as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets): in spirit
6 the nations are to be joint enjoyers of an allotment, and a joint body, and joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus, through the evangel
7 of which I became the dispenser, in accord with the gratuity of the grace of God, which is granted to me in accord with His powerful operation.
8 To me, less than the least of all saints, was granted this grace: to bring the evangel of the untraceable riches of Christ to the nations,
9 and to enlighten all as to what is the administration of the secret, which has been concealed from the eons in God, Who creates all,
10 that now may be made known to the sovereignties and the authorities among the celestials, through the ecclesia, the multifarious wisdom of God,
11 in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord;
12 in Whom we have boldness and access with confidence, through His faith. --" (Ephesians 3:1-12)

So I agree with what you say, "Sounds like there are only 2 groups. In and out of Christ." But Israel won't be "in Christ" until what we read about in "The Unveiling of Jesus Christ," right?   

Paul's epistle to the Galatians warns about distorting the evangel by mixing the evangel of the Circumcision law with the evangel of the Uncircumcision grace, and that is exactly what the church does by telling you that you have to earn your salvation which is actually a free gift from God, not because we're worthy, but simply because God has chosen us for eonian life.

"6 I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel,
7 which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ.
8 But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!
9 As we have declared before and at present I am saying again, if anyone is bringing you an evangel beside that which you accepted, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:6-9)

Please notice my new disclaimer at the bottom of my messages so nobody else gets the mistaken impression I'm trying to claim authority. I'm just a student of the word of God like all of us here, but I happen to believe Paul's epistles are the evangel for today. When this administration of grace comes to a close, God will once again be dealing with his chosen people Israel and fulfill his promise of an earthly kingdom with their Messiah to them. That's when we get back into the scripture for the Hebrews in "The Unveiling Of Jesus Christ."

[jbertonbounds]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

Notice that Jesus said if you are unfaithful you will be like a branch that is discarded, and that such branches are thrown into the fire.  He didn't say that the unfaithful will be such branches; only "like" such branches.  The fire is figurative, IMO, because it is used in the same simile as the branches.  As you may recall from English class, a simile (to put it simply) is a comparison that says one thing is like another.  So the simile is as follows: the unfaithful are like discarded and burned branches.  Being a simile, it is, IMO, not to be taken literally.  I believe the burning of the discarded "branches" is a spiritual cleansing in the lake of (spiritual) fire.

As someone already quoted:
1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

[shawn]

An interesting scripture for such people;
1 Cor 3;13-15 " Of each the work will be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it because IT IS REVEALED IN THE FIRE, and the fire shall prove what kind of work is the work of each:
if of any one the work does remain that he built on it he shall receive a wage;
if of any one the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, AND HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, but as through fire."

This does indeed put the fire into context.  Based upon previous doctrine we analyze each verse.  We assume fire is eternal hell, not based upon the specific verse but based upon specific doctrine.  If we took that verse at face value, applying it literally without previous eternal hell doctrine, we would come to the conclusion of anhiliationism.  Branches are not burned forever, they burn up and are gone.  But, those of us who understand the Biblical indications of fire realize it has noting to do with eternal torture and everything to do with wheat/chaff purifying principles.  Away from God we are of little worth much like a dead branch who is thrown into a fire....or in Gehenna (the trash dump)...where there is depression and anxiety...weeping and gnashing of teeth.  But, thankfully every part of creation is of worth to God.  And if my starting point is God=agape love, and all of creation will be reconciled...then verses like these don't cause me to stumble.

[Tom]

"10 According to the grace of God which is being granted to me, as a wise foreman I lay a foundation, yet another is building on it. Yet let each one beware how he is building on it.
11 For other foundation can no one lay beside that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone is building on this foundation gold and silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw,
13 each one's work will become apparent, for the day will make it evident, for it is being revealed by fire. And the fire, it will be testing each one's work -- what kind it is.
14 If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages.
15 If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)

"10 Paul had laid the foundation in Corinth. Apollos and others were building on it. The gold and silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw, represent the character of the doctrines with which these teachers seek to edify the ecclesia. It is not a question of quantity but quality. Wood, hay and grass would easily make an imposing pile, but they will not stand the fire in the day when each one's work will be tested. They doubtless represent the human philosophies and base additions to the truth which today almost cover up the great verities of divine revelation. Gold stands for that which is divine, silver for redemption, precious stones for those gems of grace which adorn them, especially the secrets at which Paul has been hinting.

14 Let all who teach take this to heart: their work will be tested to see what kind it is. It is better to have a little after the fire than much before it.

15 The question here is not salvation, but service. It is not concerned with the conduct of the believer but with the doctrine of those who teach." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 251)

[watchman1706]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

Notice that Jesus said if you are unfaithful you will be like a branch that is discarded, and that such branches are thrown into the fire.  He didn't say that the unfaithful will be such branches; only "like" such branches.  The fire is figurative, IMO, because it is used in the same simile as the branches.  As you may recall from English class, a simile (to put it simply) is a comparison that says one thing is like another.  So the simile is as follows: the unfaithful are like discarded and burned branches.  Being a simile, it is, IMO, not to be taken literally.  I believe the burning of the discarded "branches" is a spiritual cleansing in the lake of (spiritual) fire.

As someone already quoted:
1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Very good point...'like'. Why do christians misread the words all the time?  :thumbsup: :banana: :iagree:

[eaglesway]

I am so thankful for 2 cor 3:12-15; and I am so grateful that ALL the scriptures must be weighed in relation to any given subject(not just the ones that seem to prove our point). There are to many verses that say ALL will be reconciled; ALL will be restored; ALL will be gathered into one in Christ. If they are disregarded, then we mght as well disregard them ALL :o)

[WhiteWings]

I think Galatians 3:27,28 refers to the Jews in the body of Christ.

I understand and agree with that view; but as usual I like to complicate things a bit :winkgrin:
The whole OT was given to the Jews. Jesus ministry was for Jews only (with a few exceptions). A large part of the NT was addressed to Jews.
Does that mean none of it is for Christian use?  I tend to think Jesus removed all boundaries. He died for all mankind which includes Jews. 

Israel had rejected Christ and killed him, but there are some Jewish believers.

True many Jews rejected Him; but many gentiles did the same.

Anyway, while I'm sure Jesus doesn't differentiate when people are in the body of Christ; I also think it's larger than that. The OT was a Jew only thing but from halfway the 1st century AD is being actively promoted to non Jews. With promotion of the Bible among the Gentiles the whole population of earth was becoming a potential "people of God".

Note: Obviously man and woman and all other mentioned groups still exist within the body of Christ. That, imo, points to the fact Israel is still set apart for a special purpose. Maybe even so while in Christ. It's just non of the groups are rejected because of what they are.


:dontknow:

[jbertonbounds]

An interesting scripture for such people;
1 Cor 3;13-15 " Of each the work will be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it because IT IS REVEALED IN THE FIRE, and the fire shall prove what kind of work is the work of each:
if of any one the work does remain that he built on it he shall receive a wage;
if of any one the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, AND HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, but as through fire."

This does indeed put the fire into context.  Based upon previous doctrine we analyze each verse.  We assume fire is eternal hell, not based upon the specific verse but based upon specific doctrine.  If we took that verse at face value, applying it literally without previous eternal hell doctrine, we would come to the conclusion of anhiliationism.  Branches are not burned forever, they burn up and are gone.  But, those of us who understand the Biblical indications of fire realize it has noting to do with eternal torture and everything to do with wheat/chaff purifying principles.  Away from God we are of little worth much like a dead branch who is thrown into a fire....or in Gehenna (the trash dump)...where there is depression and anxiety...weeping and gnashing of teeth.  But, thankfully every part of creation is of worth to God.  And if my starting point is God=agape love, and all of creation will be reconciled...then verses like these don't cause me to stumble.

:thumbsup:

[Colleen]

Thanks to you all for your responses. I'm very appreciative.

[jbertonbounds]

 :URWelcome:

[marie glen]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

Great thread! As concerning the 'end' or 'last days' I find myself thinking of it like this,

"He comes with angels and with fire".. 2 th 1:7,8

"immediately after the tribulation of those days.. sees Him coming on the clouds.. he will send out His angels to gather His elect from all directions.."

"He comes with angels and with fire" as the 1st resurrection occurs (goes up) the fire (comes down)

We must abide in Him to be part of the 1st resurrection/rapture/catching away..

But even before then, as others pointed out, Old Testament saints understood God's judgment upon nations to be fiery judgment, not an ever-lasting 'hell' - All seeming references, as we see, are easily answered :)
  :hiya: God bless!

[Tom]

I think Galatians 3:27,28 refers to the Jews in the body of Christ.

I understand and agree with that view; but as usual I like to complicate things a bit :winkgrin:
The whole OT was given to the Jews. Jesus ministry was for Jews only (with a few exceptions). A large part of the NT was addressed to Jews.
Does that mean none of it is for Christian use?  I tend to think Jesus removed all boundaries. He died for all mankind which includes Jews. 

Israel had rejected Christ and killed him, but there are some Jewish believers.

True many Jews rejected Him; but many gentiles did the same.

Anyway, while I'm sure Jesus doesn't differentiate when people are in the body of Christ; I also think it's larger than that. The OT was a Jew only thing but from halfway the 1st century AD is being actively promoted to non Jews. With promotion of the Bible among the Gentiles the whole population of earth was becoming a potential "people of God".

Note: Obviously man and woman and all other mentioned groups still exist within the body of Christ. That, imo, points to the fact Israel is still set apart for a special purpose. Maybe even so while in Christ. It's just non of the groups are rejected because of what they are.


:dontknow:

All scripture "is for Christian use," and I agree Christ "died for all mankind which includes Jews." 

"All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness, that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act." (2 Timothy 3:16)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/CorrectlyCutting.html

I agree that Israel is not rejected. They are God's chosen people for the future earthly kingdom ruled by Christ which will happen when he returns. I think God has simply paused in his dealing with Israel while the nations are being evangelized.

"the nations are to be joint enjoyers of an allotment, and a joint body, and joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus, through the evangel" (Ephesians 3:6)

[Seth]

I have a fb friend who regularly posts verses that point to not all being save because she knows I believe all will be saved. Tonight it was John 15: 5-6 I think 
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. What is your understanding, anyone?

The branches in Christ which produce no fruit represent his people, those who will be bound up hand and foot and thrown into the lake of fire. This "fire" represents the destruction which comes upon them by their own sin. Paul recommended that a man who was engaging in sexual immorality should be cast out of the church for "destruction of the flesh so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord." He also said that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

1 Thess 5:3
While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Destruction of the flesh by Satan means that they do the works of the Devil, and this destruction will bring them down to their knees as with the Prodigal Son. That is why Paul says "as labor pains on a pregnant woman." Labor pains are SEVERE, yet are part of producing new life. We see by this that the Day of the Lord does not cancel the work of the Cross, but upholds in in salvation for all

Here is a link to a paper I wrote called The Judgment of the World by the Cross, in which I explain in much more detail.

[sheila]

also,in Zechariah 3...then he showedme Joshua the High Preist standing before the

angelof the Lord,andSatan standing at hisright side to accuse him.  The Lord said tosatan..

  the Lord rebuke you!!!Satan!!!!The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!


       IS NOT THIS MAN A BURNING STICK SNATCHED FROM THE FIRE!!!

     ...andif wedosin[fallshort] we have Himas an advocate.........

    NOW JOSHUA WAS DRESSED IN FILTHY CLOTHES[sinful flesh] as he stood before the angel

    the angelsaidtothose who were standing before him, 'take off his filthy clothes"

...then he said toJoshua....'see..I have takenaway your sin,and I will put rich garments

on you....

  LISTEN O'HIGH PREIST'S.....JOSHUA AND YOUR SSOCIATES ARE SYMBOLIC OF THINGS

TO COME; I AM GOING TO BRING MY SERVANT THE BRANCH. SEE THE STONE I HAVE

SET IN FRONT OF JOSHUA! THERE ARE SEVEN EYES ON THAT ONE STONE,AND I WILL

ENGRAVE AND INSCRIPTION ON IT...AND I WILL REMOVE THE SIN OF THIS LAND IN ONE DAY

branches fortemple worship are necessary at the altar........the dead flesh isconsumed.insuch

instances onthe brazen altar..a restful odour untothe Lord...see burnt offering......


  Lev 1-9  itis a burnt offering..anoffering made by fire...an aroma pleasing tothe Lord.

  HOLOCAUST...wholey burnt

[Seth]

Yes, Joshua the high priest a shadow of our high Priest, snatched from the fire, born of the Spirit.

Luke 21
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

And the one who was snatched from the fire, judges by fire. 

Psalm 96:13
Let all creation rejoice before the LORD, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness.


:banana:

[sheila]

yes..and becauseof this fact..all menshall have haave aholythingborn ofthem........forunto

you a son has been born.....in the last days Ishall pour out my spirit on allflesh