Matthew 18 : 6

[fullarmor2]

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea".

   This sounds like Jesus is referring to some type of severe punishment in the next life and he says its worse than the millstone thing. 

[Beloved Servant]

 :sigh: I've been wrestling with this one all day:

Matthew 7:6 (King James Version)

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

[Beloved Servant]

                                                                                   And this one:

2 Timothy 3 (King James Version)


1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[Tim B]

                                                                                   And this one:

2 Timothy 3 (King James Version)


1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I would have to assume either A) never in this life or B) never is an exaggeration not to be taken literally. How many times have peopled said, "Aw man, you'll never get it!" but then they end up understanding later.

Another thing to understand is this: people only believe so far as God is willing to allow them to believe, that is, gives them faith. If they don't believe currently, it's simply because God hasn't allowed them to yet. And if it's God's will to save all men, he'll do it eventually!

[claypot]

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea".

   This sounds like Jesus is referring to some type of severe punishment in the next life and he says its worse than the millstone thing. 

Personification of our thoughts.

Keep your doubts about Jesus at bay. It's the little foxes that spoil the vine. It is not a good thing to let your doubts have their way, it is better to not exist than to doubt God.

No future punishment. It is in the 'now' as all of the Living Word is.

cp

[claypot]

:sigh: I've been wrestling with this one all day:

Matthew 7:6 (King James Version)

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Your pearls and that which is holy are the building blocks of your faith in God. If you give them (your faith thoughts) over to doubt and unbelief they will render you faithless and your life will fall apart......be ripped apart.

Keep your mind pure and your eye single or at least pray to God for these things.

cp

[Beloved Servant]

Thanks fellas,
but the first three posts were specifically referring to the situation unfolding on Tentmaker over the past few days.

[Tim B]

Thanks fellas,
but the first three posts were specifically referring to the situation unfolding on Tentmaker over the past few days.

There's a situation unfolding? lol I wonder if I missed it  :grin:

[jabcat]

I think the "situation" has been pretty much been resolved, so I'll post this to, uh,  uh-hmmm...address the "pearls before swine" issue:

"Danny Donkey died and went to heaven....."

  :mock:    http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/2009-05-31/

My bad... :mblush:

[martincisneros]

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea".

   This sounds like Jesus is referring to some type of severe punishment in the next life and he says its worse than the millstone thing. 

Why would His genuinely preferring that you were [frighteningly] murdered rather than that you would be allowed to offend one of His little ones which believe on Him equal afterlife torments?

I mean, He's basically preferring that you were a victim of the mob or of pirates before you'd offend one of these little ones that believe on Him.  Just saying, that if He could pick one and really had a Choice...

[reFORMer]

Remember too what "repentance" is.  When you are the kind of person that thinks and behaves in a certain way you are sowing those things in that field.  When you change your mind and think and behave in another different way you are sowing another kind of seed in another field.  When God's wrath is to those in the former field it won't include you because you have moved to another crop in another field.

Ezekiel 18:20-32 (AV)...
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi all, long time no see.

I have been lurking around and reading, and growing.   I had to regroup as to the reason I would visit here in the first place.

That being said I did want to comment on this thread because it is a trend we all can have trouble with when reading scripture.

The reason that verse 7 in 2 Timothy 3 is troublesome is because the word "never" stands out all on it's own. I often hate the word context as it is used so often to just dismiss a point of view, but nevertheless we do have to have a certain context in order to resolve some issues.   

First and foremost is the context of usage as opposed to just studying a words definition, that is the problem here.   We see the definition and think that it might contradict the glorious promise that God will save all mankind.

But there is no contradiction  and there is no trouble,  it is fact bearing, it is stating the fact that those it describes will never come to the knowledge of truth while in that state of mind.  The rest of the context is all the other scriptures that promise the reconciliation of all things,  it also includes these described.  Because of those promises I believe it is scripturally sound to come to the conclusion I have.


Because when they come to the knowledge of truth, they will no longer be described the same way.

[martincisneros]

:sigh: I've been wrestling with this one all day:

Matthew 7:6 (King James Version)

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (Matthew 15:27)

And His Hands and Feet were pierced for dogs:

16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (Psalm 22:16)

And the swine would have to be included by these verses:

18And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. (Hosea 2:18)

27Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:27-28)

So, basically, under the New Covenant, what's holy IS offered to dogs, and pearls ARE being offered to swine (how else do you think I got 'em?).  Jesus was speaking in Matthew 7 to Israel about the Mosaic Covenant rather than to Christians under a better Blood Covenant that's established upon Better Promises.