Matthew 13 -- Wheat & Tares

[alihaymeg]

It sounds like the same result is atained no matter how you translate this parable. Either we must change from tare to wheat, or we must change our works from tares to wheat. The point is still that the bad will be burned away leaving the good. 1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Peace and Love

[70sevens]

70sevens,

You say that you are either a wheat or a tare.
You say tares can't know that they are tares because they have no eyes.
Then you say of the tares "When he realize himself as real tare, then he will have eyes to see Jesus Christ to follow."

This is a paradox. How can you realize you are a tare if you haven't eyes? This scenario seems complicated that you have drawn.

Thank you for reading my post.

As for the paradox, that's why I differentiate 'real tare' from 'tare'.
For instance, the Pharisees are blind spiritually.
So they cannot follow Jesus, the Son of God, even though they believe in God.
Nevertheless, they think that they are not blind at all.
They are tares, not knowing they are. Do you agree?

However, there are tares who realize themselves as real tares.
Like the publican below:   

[Lk 18:13]
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

The publican here realized himself as real tare, so he now can listen to Jesus.
He reached the time of harvest, and eventually he will be born again by Jesus as wheat.

Pharisees and publican came to this world all as same tares.
But Pharisees did not realize themselves as tares, but publican did.

Jesus said to Pharisees :

[Jn 9:40-41]
40/ And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words,
and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41/ Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin:
but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If Pharisees realized themselves as real tares (if you were blind),
then they could follow Jesus to be born again sinless (you should have no sin).
But they insisted  they were no tares, so they couldnot follow Jesus and had to remain as tares.

The persons, including Pharisees, in the Bible do not mean those historical persons.
They are we.
Our faith start with tares (Pharisees), and when harvest time comes in our life,
we will be meeting Jesus and then enter into the Kingdom of God.

[Taffy]

70sevens,

You say that you are either a wheat or a tare.
You say tares can't know that they are tares because they have no eyes.
Then you say of the tares "When he realize himself as real tare, then he will have eyes to see Jesus Christ to follow."

This is a paradox. How can you realize you are a tare if you haven't eyes? This scenario seems complicated that you have drawn.

Thank you for reading my post.

As for the paradox, that's why I differentiate 'real tare' from 'tare'.
For instance, the Pharisees are blind spiritually.
So they cannot follow Jesus, the Son of God, even though they believe in God.
Nevertheless, they think that they are not blind at all.
They are tares, not knowing they are. Do you agree?

However, there are tares who realize themselves as real tares.
Like the publican below:   

[Lk 18:13]
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

The publican here realized himself as real tare, so he now can listen to Jesus.
He reached the time of harvest, and eventually he will be born again by Jesus as wheat.

Pharisees and publican came to this world all as same tares.
But Pharisees did not realize themselves as tares, but publican did.

Jesus said to Pharisees :

[Jn 9:40-41]
40/ And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words,
and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41/ Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin:
but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If Pharisees realized themselves as real tares (if you were blind),
then they could follow Jesus to be born again sinless (you should have no sin).
But they insisted  they were no tares, so they couldnot follow Jesus and had to remain as tares.

The persons, including Pharisees, in the Bible do not mean those historical persons.
They are we.
Our faith start with tares (Pharisees), and when harvest time comes in our life,
we will be meeting Jesus and then enter into the Kingdom of God.

MM. faith starting with the Tares...From Faith to Faith?....From Form to Reality ..From Death T Life .from Soul to Zoe Life, Darkness to Light, Bondage to Freedom,Blindnss to sight  The list continues for Mine,  :icon_flower:...well at least for now

[Sarah]

They are tares, not knowing they are. Do you agree?

Yes.

I fully understand the concept that "if the light in you is darkness, how great is that darkness"...referring to the religious who see no need for change. This is the worst state of blindness.

You seem to make the argument that all people are tares. Is this what you are saying when you say that publicans and Pharisees are tares? Or do you see the wheat as the 12, or the Jewish disciples?

[The persons, including Pharisees, in the Bible do not mean those historical persons.
They are we.
Our faith start with tares (Pharisees), and when harvest time comes in our life,
we will be meeting Jesus and then enter into the Kingdom of God.
/quote]

I'm not sure how your analogy of changing from a tare to a wheat fits in with the parable. In the parable it appears that the tares are destroyed. But I do agree with the above statement in a different context (except for the part of Pharisees not being historical people).

[70sevens]

1. All are tares

All human being are born to this world as tares, including Pharisees, publicans and us.

[Ro 3:10-12]
10/ As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11/ There is none that understandeth,
there is none that seeketh after God. 12/ They are all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

All mankind are born sinners.
Don't misunderstand this statement as that we killed someone and/or stole something,
but we are sinners as we are.

I am not making a new argument, but it's a basics of Christianity.

[Ro 5:19]
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

At the time of parable spoken,
tares and wheat are as follows :
tares = servants of the householder = 12 disciples (and all mankind out there)

wheat = reapers = angels (= 12 disciples afterwards)*

*12 disciples will be born again as wheat at the cross and/or at Pentecost.
See what the apostles did after Pentecost.
They were preaching the gospel, which is harvesting wheat from tares as reapers/angels.

2. Adam's life should be Destroyed

Born-again means that one's old life is destroyed and new life begins.

Paul said :
[Ro 6:6]
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Here old man (tare) is crucified and body of sin (old man) is destroyed.
This is what is happening at the time of harvest in the parable.

3. Pharisees

Do not be misunderstood.
I am not saying non-existence of Pharisees historically.
But the Scriptures are referring to the spiritual meaning of such.

For instance,
[Gal 4:24-26]
24/ Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai,
which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25/ For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26/ But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Here Paul do not translate Agar and Sara historically, but spiritually as the law and grace directly.
Same is true Pharisees.
Pharisees are the persons who have faith under the law, having self-righteousness.
If we are under the law having self-righteousness then we are Pharisees.
What else are we going to be?

We tend to think that we are not as bad as Pharisees, but we sometimes do the works of tares.
Sorry, if we are so, we are tares.
Because in wheat there will be no tare element at all.

It is quite natural that wheat contains no tare nature whatsoever.
That's why John said as follows :

[1Jn 3:9]
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: There is macrocosm and microcosm, ie. world view and personal view, to every scripture in there. So one is not wrong, just a different perspective depending on whether or not you are looking at the big picture, or looking a little closer to "home". Blessings...

[Taffy]

:cloud9: There is macrocosm and microcosm, ie. world view and personal view, to every scripture in there. So one is not wrong, just a different perspective depending on whether or not you are looking at the big picture, or looking a little closer to "home". Blessings...

Kinda Like that adage too :icon_flower: :cloud9:

[rosered]

         well said Card! my sentiments  exactly .. just dont know them ''macro , micro ''words  though  lol
  I love it too Taff  :HeartThrob:

[70sevens]

1. Personal view and World view are same in case....

Example,
Peter said:
"I ate and got full".  This is personal view.
The Scriptures says :
All men who eat will get full. This is world view.
To Peter, his personal view is the world view. No difference.

In fact, no one can express world view, but personal view.
Nevertheless, when  he experienced it, his personal view would be world view.
If we think deeply, all the scriptures, which we may think world view, are,
in fact, personal view of each authors.


2.  Personal view and World view will be different in case...

However, suppose, one who did not eat,
but he read the Scriptures and knew that "All men who eat will get full."
And he preaches the world view to others.

This case, his personal view does not match the world view.
What he is preaching is a lie and hypocrisy.
Eventually he will die, not because of lie and hypocrisy, but because of hunger.
Such misguided concept of world view will massacre the spirits of many.

We should have personal view through experience,
which would be world view at the same time.

Have we eaten really?

[Taffy]

Could be wrong 007,..Wheres Moneypenny :icon_flower:

Roger Moore really isnt James Bond, Sean Connery Is :laughing7: or is it Timothy Dalton :icon_king:

Maybe,......   :dontknow:      Could it be That the comment was from ONES personal perspective, In how they view what they SEE...

I kinda got from what was said...An OUTWARD Man View, Then the INNER man perspective. :icon_flower:

[Mark Christopher]

/quote]
Ahhhh .,  . . a fresh breeze just went through . . . . can ya feel it??? :goodpost:

Amen!

[Nathan]

1. Personal view and World view are same in case....

Example,
Peter said:
"I ate and got full".  This is personal view.
The Scriptures says :
All men who eat will get full. This is world view.
To Peter, his personal view is the world view. No difference.

In fact, no one can express world view, but personal view.
Nevertheless, when  he experienced it, his personal view would be world view.
If we think deeply, all the scriptures, which we may think world view, are,
in fact, personal view of each authors.


2.  Personal view and World view will be different in case...

However, suppose, one who did not eat,
but he read the Scriptures and knew that "All men who eat will get full."
And he preaches the world view to others.

This case, his personal view does not match the world view.
What he is preaching is a lie and hypocrisy.
Eventually he will die, not because of lie and hypocrisy, but because of hunger.
Such misguided concept of world view will massacre the spirits of many.

We should have personal view through experience,
which would be world view at the same time.

Have we eaten really?

World view says . . .when ya drink a glass of water . .it'll quench your thirst . .but you'll get thirsty again eventually.

Personal view .  . . God uses natural (world view) things to reveal spiritual (inner/ personal) truth.  The water is an example of how Christ and the Spirit of life will quench your every desire . .but in the internal view . . .it's not natural water that I'm desiring . . .it's the spiritual water.

Natural will never comprehend spiritual as it doesn't have the capacity.  It's like trying to play a baseball game using football rules.  It just won't fit.  So for me . . . they're not "supposed" to match up.  If they do . .something is spiritually wrong.  I don't want to glean off the mind of another man because it's already clear, the mind of man can't comprehend the mind of God.  I want to become as an eagle . . .and glean off the carcass, the body of Christ . . .which is . . .each of us when we're spiritually discerning and sharing what it is we're seeing so that all will benefit from our experience that we then may all grow and mature into the deeper things of the Spirit and leave the natural things to the spiritually dead.

[gregoryfl]

Is it perhaps that we are talking about two different parables as if they are expressing the same idea?

The parable of the wheat and the tares expresses a different idea totally than does the teaching of the wheat and chaff.

Chaff is the outer husk of the wheat which needs to be separated, it is no good for use. That to me everyone has and will be burned up in the fire of Christ's consuming presence in this life.

Tares, on the other hand, are a false wheat, totally separate from real wheat, and are those who look and act like believers but are not. Believers are not tares. Those tares will be burned up, also in the presence of the Lord, but in that burning they themselves will come to know Him.

I admit that I have not read through every single post here on this topic but it just appeared to me that these twos ideas were being spoken of as synonymous. If that's not the case, then just ignore what I just wrote.  :laughing7:

Ron

[Zeek]

Is it perhaps that we are talking about two different parables as if they are expressing the same idea?

The parable of the wheat and the tares expresses a different idea totally than does the teaching of the wheat and chaff.

Chaff is the outer husk of the wheat which needs to be separated, it is no good for use. That to me everyone has and will be burned up in the fire of Christ's consuming presence in this life.

Tares, on the other hand, are a false wheat, totally separate from real wheat, and are those who look and act like believers but are not. Believers are not tares. Those tares will be burned up, also in the presence of the Lord, but in that burning they themselves will come to know Him.

I admit that I have not read through every single post here on this topic but it just appeared to me that these twos ideas were being spoken of as synonymous. If that's not the case, then just ignore what I just wrote.  :laughing7:

Ron

I think you have a good point Ron. I see it as two separate parables.

[70sevens]

While talking about wheat and tares,
I guess, folks here are having a fundamental oversight
that tares do not know themseves being tares.

Therefore, if we think we are real belivers, i.e., wheat,
then how can we know that?
What if we are tares?

Nobody goes to hell, knowing he is going there.
Whoever goes to hell, is going there without knowing it.

[Molly]

What makes you think the tares don't know they are tares? 

[WhiteWings]

I think many tares know of themselfs they are tares.

But many that think they are wheat are actually tares.
I don't know the verse but is like this: Go away I have never known you.

[Chris]

Pnuema may be about later to give a More technical explaination

:laughing7: you explained it just fine bro, but I will give more on the BREATH OF LIFE.

Breath of life

Genesis 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Many believe that this is speaking of how natural man was created.
They believe that God took dust from the ground, breathed His spirit into the dust and that this union of dust and spirit is the make up of man who is then called a living soul.

But is that what God said?

Let's look closely at this scripture.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

It says plainly here that God formed MAN of the dust of the ground before He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and before MAN became a living soul.

Now we know that man is made up of spirit, soul and body. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This man of dust already had a spirit, soul and body, for is not man made up of spirit, soul and body?

And if this man of dust spoken of here did not already have a spirit, soul and body can it be rightly called man?

Cannot we understand by this that man was already created? And that God is doing something other then creating a natural man here?

God is not creating a natural man here as in the creation of the first man Adam, but He is shaping man to be in His image and likeness here.

We read in Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The word created here comes from the Hebrew word bara and formed from Genesis 2:7 is the Hebrew word yatsar.

So why does the scriptures use two different words if they are both dealing with the creation of man?

Because the man being formed in Genesis 2:7 finds his fulfillment in Gen.1:26-27 in being created in the image and likeness of God.

Yatsar comes with the weight of something being squeezed into shape as a potter molding the clay.

Genesis 2:7 is telling us the process of how we are being formed into the image and likeness of God, it is not telling us how natural man was created, but it is telling us how the spiritual man is being created.

Genesis 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now we have always read this scripture (me included) as to how MAN was originally created. And I believe we have been understanding it all wrong.
This is not speaking about how man was originally created, but rather it is speaking of how God is making the MAN he originally created into His image and likeness.

Now when God formed MAN He formed MAN from the dust of the ground.
Now this MAN God formed from the dust of the ground already had a spirit, soul, and body. He is the flesh man or the old man or the man of sin, a living creature/beast man that lives unto itself, this is that MAN we are/were before God breathes the breath of life unto MAN.

Now Gods breath is the brimstone (Is.30:33) spoken of in the second death and here it is called the BREATH OF LIFE. Now why would that which is seen as part of the make up of the second death be called the breath of life?

To understand why a part of the second death is called the breath of life let's look at the meaning of the word BREATH.

It comes from the Hebrew word n\eshamah which is rooted in the Hebrew word nasham which means to destroy but also carries the weight of a woman in travail.

When God breathed the BREATH OF LIFE unto MAN it was for the destruction of the MAN that he was by birthing in the MAN of dust Jesus Christ.

It is because of this MAN became a living soul.

Now living soul and living creature come from the same Hebrew word nephesh.

The MAN of dust was a living creature/nephesh, living its own life until the BREATH OF LIFE was breathed upon him. Once the BREATH OF LIFE which is the birth/manifestation of Jesus Christ in the MAN of dust, MAN became a living soul/nephesh or a new creature in Christ.

Not finished reading the thread yet, but just has to say AMEN to this post!! AMEN!!!

I remember well the day I suddenly realized that a soul (nephesh) is:

"a breathing creature". :declare:

But it is not until God sends forth HIS SPIRIT that men are "created" in His image and after His likeness.

Psa 104:30  Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Psa 102:18  This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.

[Chris]

Hi 70s :icon_flower:
weve talked before , other forums too., Also, Hi Kim,  thanks fo rgetting back and sharing some,  for mine,70s pretty much summed it up in what I was going to reply. :icon_flower:



Indeed, The flesh is our Heart and Mind, the seat of our emotions,the enmity,TO be CANAL(FLESH) MINDED IS death, NOT our natural Body, which can confuse when reading scrips when paul states "you are spirit NOT Flesh."

This is the Tares ( balck but look like wheat) which are Burnt Up and Destroyed ,been saying this for ages, Christ Often Uses the Pharisees of the Day to Emphasize His POINT,...so it can be seen TWO fold, as a Type of Folk, those under LAW, which is equal also to the Flesh.


These are all the Same, the same meassage ALL through scripture, repititon is a Great way To learn, and us parents never thought it "first" he ha.

Flesh v Spirit
Law v Grace and Truth
Bondage v Freedom
Old C v New C
Esau v Jacob
Cain v Abel\Seth( appointed )
Child\slave \babe v Son or Heir
Old Jerusalem v New Jerusalem
Woman V Mother( ever Notice Christ never calls His Natural Mother, But Woman
Form v Reality
False Gold v GOLD which has been Tried by fire=Truth
Goliath v David
Corruptable v incorruption
Wisdom Beneath v Wisdom above.
5 Virgins no oil v 5 virgin with oil.
The sea below V the sea above ,known as the Heavens.
Josephs Folk v Joseph.
Old israel v New Israel.
Circumcision v circumcison of the Haert,
Old Man V  New Man
Darkness v light
Night v Day
Crooked  v Straight
Blind v Sight
Lame v Walk
Tof G&E V Tof L

etc
and the list goes On..
:icon_flower:

I like the way you divide things.  :thumbsup:

(that list looks a little bit familiar.... I see it's growing....  :grin:)

[CHB]

The MAN of dust was a living creature/nephesh, living its own life until the BREATH OF LIFE was breathed upon him. Once the BREATH OF LIFE which is the birth/manifestation of Jesus Christ in the MAN of dust, MAN became a living soul/nephesh or a new creature in Christ.

Pneuma,

Don't know if you still come around or read on here but I just wanted to tell you that was an awesome post.  :thumbsup: I learned something I never thought of before.  :bgdance:

CHB

[70sevens]

1. Molly

The sinners do not know they are sinners.
They think they are the righteous all the way, not knowing they are not.

[Jn 16:2]
They shall put you out of the synagogues:
yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

[Lk 23:34]
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

What makes you think the tares don't know they are tares? 

Now, you tell me
what makes you think that you are wheat or tare whatever?


2. WhiteWings

The scriptures state the truth and true nature of the things always.
So, your statements below are self-contrdictory.

"
I think many tares know of themselfs they are tares.
But many that think they are wheat are actually tares.
"

If tares know themselves, they know.
If tares do not know themselves, they do not know.
Do not mix up two together.
Choose one!

Black is black.
White is white.

Black is white???
It's a chaotic statement.

Please review what you are saying.

I think many tares know of themselfs they are tares.

But many that think they are wheat are actually tares.
I don't know the verse but is like this: Go away I have never known you.

[WhiteWings]

1. Molly

The sinners do not know they are sinners.
They think they are the righteous all the way, not knowing they are not.

I'm a sinner and I know that.
The more I understand from the Bible the more I know I'm on the wrong side of the line.

What makes you think the tares don't know they are tares? 

Now, you tell me
what makes you think that you are wheat or tare whatever?

Suppose I know the Bible and I've done some killing and stealing.
For me it would be clear I'm a tare.

2. WhiteWings

The scriptures state the truth and true nature of the things always.
So, your statements below are self-contrdictory.
"

Not how I look at it.

"
I think many tares know of themselfs they are tares.
But many that think they are wheat are actually tares.


If tares know themselves, they know.
If tares do not know themselves, they do not know.
Do not mix up two together.
Choose one!

2 situations. 2 choices.
I'll explain.
Some people know they are tares. Again the example of the person that kills and steals.
Some people think they live their lives in a good way. (weat) But when judged they are classified as tares.
(go away I never knew you)

Black is black.
White is white.

Black is white???
It's a chaotic statement.

Nope it's just chaotic reading...

[Nathan]

WW, just a question for you . . .
You've admitted in past posts that you're atheist and here you state that you know you're on the wrong side of the fence so to speak when concerning your salvation status . . . my question is, when you see yourself as a sinner, are you saying this is how the Bible portrays you?  Or are you saying that you realize that you are?

If the latter be the case, aren't you interested in changing that status? 

I know it's easy to misread things, but for me, you're coming across as "I know I'm a sinner and I'm OK with that. . ."

And I think I do see where your coming from with the black and white analogy.  If people are tares, those that are tares . .and see themselves as tares . . .either don't care so they don't change . .or they see how successful the religious people are at loving them . . .(cynically so) and they know they don't want that either, so they still don't change. 

Usually, when one realizes they have come up short, they make the decision to find the means to make up the difference.  There are many different scenerios really.  Some rebel against the plumb line, some just don't care, and yet others care, but don't want to make the effort . .and lastly, there are those who are truly desiring to change through the conviction of the Spirit in their hearts.

"If" people are the tares . .then there would have to be some way to transform the tares into wheat . .otherwise . . .we can't consider ourselves URists.  So even though I've commented about people being tares, that was for the benefit of the previous conversation.  But there is no indication in any of the tare/wheat parables where the tares are transformed into wheat . .they are simply separated from the wheat and destroyed . . .which leads me back to my original thought on the matter that wheat and tares is the godly and ungodly natures within us.

[Molly]

In these last days, doesn't every man have a conscience?

Thus, even the sociopath knows the difference between right and wrong; he just doesn't care.

I've seen children as young as 2 and 3 who know the difference between right and wrong.

So, something would have to happen to them after that to cause them to want to choose wrong.

And, there are people who are hard at work destroying children for this purpose.

But, when a man does what is wrong--his conscience pipes up and eats at him, burning him in God's fire.

[WhiteWings]

WW, just a question for you . . .
You've admitted in past posts that you're atheist and here you state that you know you're on the wrong side of the fence so to speak when concerning your salvation status . . . my question is, when you see yourself as a sinner, are you saying this is how the Bible portrays you?  Or are you saying that you realize that you are?

I don't feel myself a sinner. But according to the Bible I am. I simply don't see harm in some things that the Bible sees as sin. Including some of the deadly sins.

If the latter be the case, aren't you interested in changing that status? 

Questions getting harder. Answer: Yes, but my drive is low.

I know it's easy to misread things, but for me, you're coming across as "I know I'm a sinner and I'm OK with that. . ."

Almost right. More like: "I know I'm a sinner and I'm not really worried with that. . ."
To be honest somehow I don't really know the answers to the above 2 questions. Weird but true.

And I think I do see where your coming from with the black and white analogy.  If people are tares, those that are tares . .and see themselves as tares . . .either don't care so they don't change . .or they see how successful the religious people are at loving them . . .(cynically so) and they know they don't want that either, so they still don't change. 

More grey. But yes I often tend to look at things black or white.
Basicly I'm like: I always pay back.
If someone does something negative to me I enjoy giving it back in tenfold.
But if people help me I won't forget either and pay back whatever I can.
Then the main question for me is: Am I part of evolution or should I thank God?
I know your answer. But I'm not at that point. I'm looking. I'm serious on this board. I'm not here to secretly laugh at Bible people.
If I had real evidence God gave me life. (a rather good one I might add) then it would be easier to "payback"
Yep, I know that's works etc etc. But you know; nothing comes free.
Biblically seen nonsense. But not in my daily life.

Usually, when one realizes they have come up short, they make the decision to find the means to make up the difference.  There are many different scenerios really.  Some rebel against the plumb line, some just don't care, and yet others care, but don't want to make the effort . .and lastly, there are those who are truly desiring to change through the conviction of the Spirit in their hearts.

I'm somewhere in the blue part.

"If" people are the tares . .then there would have to be some way to transform the tares into wheat . .otherwise . . .we can't consider ourselves URists.

If it comes from within it hasn't started yet. Same if it's an outside force.

So even though I've commented about people being tares, that was for the benefit of the previous conversation.  But there is no indication in any of the tare/wheat parables where the tares are transformed into wheat . .they are simply separated from the wheat and destroyed . . .which leads me back to my original thought on the matter that wheat and tares is the godly and ungodly natures within us.

That almost sounds like all are equal. I don't wanna sit in the seat of God but history to me shows some people lean very close to 100% tare.

End of confession.
Signed,
WhiteWings  :laughing7: