"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
I can't see a discussion on this text. Doesn't it imply that most people will be destroyed?
I will give a quick reply to the textual factors of this verse.
This verse is from the Concordant literal version, and not that it is the end all of translations, but I do believe many other translations are biased to an eternal separation from Christ so they do not translate the full rich text of the greek.
So from the CLV
Mt 7:13 Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it.
First we must determine what are we to be entering.
Mt 6:33 Yet seek first the kingdom and its righteousness, and these all shall be added to you.
Secondly, from the perspective of Gods will to save all mankind (1 timothy 2:4), I see that there are two ways to be entering in the kingdom and it's righteousness.
Mt 7:13 Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it.
From the way this is worded more accuratly, we see that some will enter the kingdom through the narrow gate, some will enter the kingdom through the wide gate.
Paul,
Am I right I summarize your post as:
The wide gate leads to a place where the evil is destroyed out of the sinner and a clean (wo)man leaves that place.
QuoteEnter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it
The was I see it is: narrow gate = righteousness -that is the best path to take but it is the hardest to follow. The road to destruction is wide because it is easy to sin etc.
Destruction = personal destruction.
In other words; lead a good life and try and live clean and righteously, although this will be difficult. Beware of self destruction for this is an easy path to fall on.
Or something in those lines. Thats the way I see it.
Quote from: DeeDee on November 20, 2008, 06:19:08 PM
QuoteEnter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it
The was I see it is: narrow gate = righteousness -that is the best path to take but it is the hardest to follow. The road to destruction is wide because it is easy to sin etc.
Destruction = personal destruction.
In other words; lead a good life and try and live clean and righteously, although this will be difficult. Beware of self destruction for this is an easy path to fall on.
Or something in those lines. Thats the way I see it.
That is what it says! There is no hidden message in there, take the high road of selflessness and righteousness or take the low road of selfishness and sin. One has access to the Holy of Holies in the Inner Court, while the other leads to the Outer Court.
Are those in the outer court 'cleaned' to enter the inner court?
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
Are those in the outer court 'cleaned' to enter the inner court?
Since they are the royal priesthood they had to be.
Quote from: SOtW on November 20, 2008, 08:28:49 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
Are those in the outer court 'cleaned' to enter the inner court?
Since they are the royal priesthood they had to be.
I think you misunderstood me Craig.
Will 100% of mankind at some point in time be in the inner court?
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2008, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: SOtW on November 20, 2008, 08:28:49 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
Are those in the outer court 'cleaned' to enter the inner court?
Since they are the royal priesthood they had to be.
I think you misunderstood me Craig.
Will 100% of mankind at some point in time be in the inner court?
No.
Revelation 20:4-5I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years
(the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended), this is the first resurrection.
I kind of see this along the same lines as many are called but few are chosen . . .To say that only the righteous can enter for me is to leave it up to everyone because if Abraham can be called righteous before he was circumcized then why would I then put stipulations on the rest of the world?
Are you sinless? (back to that question again). Because I'm assuming we are all still not perfect . . .which means we all still have sin in some form or anther in us . . .and if you're measuring righteousness by how you walk . . .then none of us are worthy.
But . . .
If this call to many and choosing to a few isn't about your works, but your willingness, that could change everything. Are you willing to enter into a room your mind has no control over? Are you willing to walk by faith and not by sight? Are you willing to let go of the traditions of men? the flesh and blood that led you here, are you willing to step out and enter into this place where it comes by way of revelation of the Father rather than the teachings of men?
The wide road for me is much like the hardened path of the 4 types of soil. Everyone has been down this road . .. they can't all be wrong in their beliefs . . . for me, that's who is on the wide road and that's also the many that are called. The few that are chosen are also the few who find the gate . . .it's all about letting go of my own understanding and being transformed into the spiritual understanding.
Quote from: SOtW on November 20, 2008, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2008, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: SOtW on November 20, 2008, 08:28:49 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
Are those in the outer court 'cleaned' to enter the inner court?
Since they are the royal priesthood they had to be.
I think you misunderstood me Craig.
Will 100% of mankind at some point in time be in the inner court?
No.
Revelation 20:4-5
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years (the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended), this is the first resurrection.
Ok, that's clear.
But after the 1000 years?
Is being/staying dead the outer court?
Instead of trying to predict an unpredictable timetable from this literally . . .suppose it's spiritual . . .
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
That's the text . . .now . . .I'll add the parenthesis and see if it helps. . .
4And I saw thrones, (God's throne is in the praises of his people) and they sat (postion of rest, connected to what's coming up) upon them, (praise is the gateway to the realm of rest) and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded (your mind, lose your mind) for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, (carnal nature) neither his image, (imaginations within the carnal mind) neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, (again, the mark is identification of the mind, but we have the mind of "Christ") or in their hands;(works/labor based thinking) and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 1000=10x10x10 . .it's all connected to the tabernacle. It's the dimensions of the Holy of holies . .the realm of rest.
5But the rest of the dead (those who did not accept Christ by faith) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
But they "do" live again "after" the finished works of Rest. If we don't receive Christ in our faith now, we will remain dead to the kingdom within us. When this day of Christ is fulfilled . .. not a literal thousand years, but a "realm" a living "reality" of rest to our spirit . .. when it comes into completion "then" those that rejected will still come back to life. It's just that because of their rejection toward the kingdom now is what keeps them from being resurrected (raptured . .caught up in Truth) now.
It's tough to claim that Jesus spoke in parables . . with purpose, on purpose, an example of his nature. And Revelation is a book of symbols . .and then turn around and try to literalize it all over again.
Quote from: NathanAre you sinless? (back to that question again). Because I'm assuming we are all still not perfect . . .which means we all still have sin in some form or anther in us . . .and if you're measuring righteousness by how you walk . . .then none of us are worthy.
This is another misguided irrelevancy which is a divergent fallacy.
Being a sinner, is not the issue. Understand this and get over it.
What matters is there is a sin that leads to death, and sin that do not lead to death. This is not about measuring righteousness by how you walk, if you continue to live for yourself and after the sinful nature, you will die and you will not inherit the Kingdom of God (that is, reign with Him). If you continue to live for Him who died for you and rose again, you will not die and you will inherit the Kingdom of God (that is, reign with Him).
Romans 8:12-14Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but
if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Galations 5:16-25So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
QuoteInstead of trying to predict an unpredictable timetable from this literally . . .suppose it's spiritual . . .
Who is taking it literally and from an unpredictable timetable?
Perhaps you don't understand what you are reading. You are not addressing to some charismatic, evangelical, etc. who believes in both the rapture and a literal city falling from the sky to set itself on earth. Your familiarity with the old system seems to have you assume that is what someone who is set free from that system is talking about. Everything I am speaking is spiritual.
Galations 5:16-25
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
You are preaching my entire point . . . if I live by the spirit and not by my natural reasoning . . . I will not gratify the desires of the nature of my old man. That's my whole point. If we walk in the spirit, why is there so much emphasis on the sins of the flesh?
Quote from: SOtW on November 20, 2008, 10:49:55 PM
QuoteInstead of trying to predict an unpredictable timetable from this literally . . .suppose it's spiritual . . .
Who is taking it literally and from an unpredictable timetable?
Perhaps you don't understand what you are reading. You are not addressing to some charismatic, evangelical, etc. who believes in both the rapture and a literal city falling from the sky to set itself on earth. Your familiarity with the old system seems to have you assume that is what someone who is set free from that system is talking about. Everything I am speaking is spiritual.
The reason I say it's been looked at naturally and not spiritually is because the "1000" years is being explained as a literal measure of time . . .it's not about a measure of time . .it's Christ . .the Sabbath . . .Rest . . .completion, fulfillment of the over all plan . . .
Same with all the other numbers used in Scriptures . .they mean something completely different than the literal stories they come with.
Quote from: Nathan on November 20, 2008, 10:58:03 PM
Quote from: SOtW on November 20, 2008, 10:49:55 PM
QuoteInstead of trying to predict an unpredictable timetable from this literally . . .suppose it's spiritual . . .
Who is taking it literally and from an unpredictable timetable?
Perhaps you don't understand what you are reading. You are not addressing to some charismatic, evangelical, etc. who believes in both the rapture and a literal city falling from the sky to set itself on earth. Your familiarity with the old system seems to have you assume that is what someone who is set free from that system is talking about. Everything I am speaking is spiritual.
The reason I say it's been looked at naturally and not spiritually is because the "1000" years is being explained as a literal measure of time . . .it's not about a measure of time . .it's Christ . .the Sabbath . . .Rest . . .completion, fulfillment of the over all plan . . .
Same with all the other numbers used in Scriptures . .they mean something completely different than the literal stories they come with.
I understand, but why do I have to always set the record straight, I am not sharing what some (yourself included) think I am. Do not let your fear of what was past taught you, cloud your judgment of what another is talking about. That is the natural reasoning you warn against. I speak in absolute terms, I do not speak vaguely.
It should be always assumed that I only speak from the heart of love, because I have nothing to gain here personally, financially, or even socially by sharing that which some do not want to hear at times. There is no personal satisfaction I have from any disagreement or argument, because I find almost all disagreements and arguments are found in a misrepresentation of what I believe, not what I believe.
So when I talk about the Inner Courts and the Outer Courts of the Kingdom of God, the priesthood of God, etc. I am not talking about some mythical imaginary Kingdom of God which has literal stone walls and precious gems inset to it. I talking about something that is present and has been here for quite a long time, the Kingdom has been here since the resurrection of Christ 2000 years ago.
If we are indeed of the Kingdom of God, which NOW, then why do we have people in this forum and claim to know the truth fight against the good that we should be doing?
What happens to an Ambassador who does not represent the Kingdom he represents? He rejected and finds his home in the land he was sent into. We are the Salt of the Earth, but what happens with salt has lost it's saltiness? It is good for nothing. Scripture says, you shall know a person by their deeds, whether or not they are of the Kingdom of God, or still in this world. Is this fear? Is this condemnation? Is this guilt? No. This is reality, you live by the sinful nature, you are a child of the devil and your end is destruction; you live by the Spirit, you put to death the sinful nature and are a child of God.
I do not intend for conflict, but conflict is enviable when I see someone who claims to be from the Kingdom of God, but rejects the truth that they have no excuse to continue to sin.
Ephesians 5:8-12For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
I do not intend for conflict, but conflict is enviable when I see someone who claims to be from the Kingdom of God, but rejects the truth that they have no excuse to continue to sin.
Here's another reference to this same question I posed on another thread. I have yet to see a post of anyone that says either there is nothing wrong with living in sin, or you can sin and God doesn't care or sin is condoned by God . . .
I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask you if you are jumping to conclusions that are not actually being stated? Are you insinuating this is something that I myself have stated? Even through your bouts with Willie, I haven't seen anything that would lead one to the place where it's been said that Christ is a free pass to living in sin.
What I "have" said was, sin shouldn't really be our focus . . . measuring the right and wrong in others is not what I believe Christ was calling the body to do. . .those types of things I did say .. but I've never said, nor have I read where anyone is actually saying sin all you want and God will look the other way.
I'm just curious about this because it continues to pop up throughout the conversations.
Quote from: Nathan on November 21, 2008, 08:01:21 PM
I do not intend for conflict, but conflict is enviable when I see someone who claims to be from the Kingdom of God, but rejects the truth that they have no excuse to continue to sin.
Here's another reference to this same question I posed on another thread. I have yet to see a post of anyone that says either there is nothing wrong with living in sin, or you can sin and God doesn't care or sin is condoned by God . . .
I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask you if you are jumping to conclusions that are not actually being stated? Are you insinuating this is something that I myself have stated? Even through your bouts with Willie, I haven't seen anything that would lead one to the place where it's been said that Christ is a free pass to living in sin.
What I "have" said was, sin shouldn't really be our focus . . . measuring the right and wrong in others is not what I believe Christ was calling the body to do. . .those types of things I did say .. but I've never said, nor have I read where anyone is actually saying sin all you want and God will look the other way.
I'm just curious about this because it continues to pop up throughout the conversations.
If you or anyone else believes you have no responsibility or accountability concerning sin, then you are saying that you can sin all you want and God will look the other way. So you cannot have it both ways, either you are responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks straight at you; or you are not responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks the other way because you have no responsibility or accountability anyways. Think about what you say before you reply.
Quote from: SOtW
If you or anyone else believes you have no responsibility or accountability concerning sin, then you are saying that you can sin all you want and God will look the other way. So you cannot have it both ways, either you are responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks straight at you; or you are not responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks the other way because you have no responsibility or accountability anyways. Think about what you say before you reply
If this is true we are all in a heap of trouble. When the Father looks at me He doesn't see my sin,...thank goodness...He sees the work of His Son Jesus Christ. Give Christ the credit that is due Him.
CHB
Quote from: Givehimglory on November 20, 2008, 04:48:21 PM
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
I can't see a discussion on this text. Doesn't it imply that most people will be destroyed?
OH yes, all Flesh( heart and Mind=soul) is destroyed, as the the Flesh Profits NOTHING.
We Take the THE narrow GATE, Dying to SELF, OR the Ultimate RD to the Destruction of it., the result will end the same, Irrespective. :icon_flower:
Quote from: CHB on November 22, 2008, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: SOtW
If you or anyone else believes you have no responsibility or accountability concerning sin, then you are saying that you can sin all you want and God will look the other way. So you cannot have it both ways, either you are responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks straight at you; or you are not responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks the other way because you have no responsibility or accountability anyways. Think about what you say before you reply
If this is true we are all in a heap of trouble. When the Father looks at me He doesn't see my sin,...thank goodness...He sees the work of His Son Jesus Christ. Give Christ the credit that is due Him.
CHB
He reconciled you without taking your sins into account. That means you are reconciled despite your sin. That does not mean He won't discipline you if you continue walking by your sinful nature. God will not take into account your sin, regarding salvation or reconciliation, but He will keep you accountable your deeds whether good or bad. For every good done as well as wrong done, He will repay accordingly, without partiality.
Read this again.
Matthew 16:27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will
then repay every man according to his deeds. John 5:28-30"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—
those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to crisis. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
2 Corinthians 5:9-10We make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Ephesians 6:8Knowing that
whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.
Colossians 3:25For
he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
So you can live in your imaginary world, where you do no wrong and are not responsible for anything you have done; but that won't stop the God for holding you accountable because you are not repentant. This is not a fear, this is reality. He holds you accountable for the good you have done, and he holds you accountable for the wrong you have done.
1 John 1:8-10If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
We have all sinned, but those who confess their sins, admit they are wrong and have done wrong, will they find their sins forgiven and life waits. For those who do not believe they have sinned, do not hold themselves accountable for their action of sin, they will find crisis and corrective punishment awaits them. Crisis and punishment which all could have been avoided had their pride not come in the way and denied them the inheritance of the Kingdom of God.
The same end result makes this more relevant. We either get to the end with reward, or we get to the end suffering loss. The choice is ours, not God's who is rewarded and who suffers loss.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Despite what anyone tells you, there are some in this world who will never experience loss, nor be saved as though escaping through the flames. You either die to self in this journey avoiding Second Death, the Lake of Fire; or, you can live to self in this journey and be thrown in to the Lake of Fire, suffering Second Death.
2 Corinthians 5:15And he died for all,
so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.The onus is now on you, the recipient of such knowledge, be reconciled to God (which means giving up on yourself). Or do not be reconciled to God and suffer the destruction that comes always after pride.
2 Corinthians 5:20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf:
Be reconciled to God.
So I guess this is your verison of working out "your own" salvation then??
willieH: :sigh:
More reporting of "beliefs" which have NOT been made by anyone:
Quote from: SOtW on November 22, 2008, 07:25:43 PM
If you or anyone else believes you have no responsibility or accountability concerning sin, then you are saying that you can sin all you want and God will look the other way.
No one has noted that "you can sin all you want and GOD will "look the other way"... these are
YOUR WORDS... and (to my knowledge) have not been stated by anyone else here, but YOU... :pitiful:
On the contrary, we must promote others to... Seek GOD in your heart with ALL your heart, and die to self... and then you shall find that the
ACCOUNT given by you of your life shall be CLOTHED in the SON, before the FATHER...
You bark and whine about others MISREPRESENTING your beliefs... and then do it yourself...
The SCRIPTURE notes ACCOUNTABILITY... and that EVERYONE shall give ACCOUNT (
LOGOS #G3056 - strongs = WORD) of himself before GOD... (
Rom 14:12) NO "responsibility" is mentioned...
We shall give account, a WORD of truth, before GOD of our lives... and IN that "
account" shall be found, things, deeds, moments, thoughts, etc which shall be found either in SHAME of NAKEDNESS, ...or CLOTHED in the Garment of
CHRIST (
Rev 3:18)
If we are held RESPONSIBLE for SINFUL oriented deeds, thoughts, etc... then PAYMENT is due for them...
Your proposal of PAYMENT (required for atonement) that INDIVIDUAL men SUPPOSEDLY must endure in order to bring about the ATONEMENT for ones UNGODLY LIFE, to "CENTER" the respective given "ACCOUNTS"... is thereby NOT MADE by
CHRIST... which is the foundational fallacy in your arguement.
GOD placed the TREE of Knowledge (G & E)... and placed each of us in varied environments which "placement" has subjected SOME to more extreme gravitation to SINFUL and UNGODLY scenarios, than it has others... WHICH again was HIS CHOICE to be so...
Just for example... the "son" (placed by GOD) in the house of
Billy Graham has been subjected to an environment which exposes GOD as the most important thing in life, and was taught accordingly, both by example and teaching... whereas
Another child (placed by GOD) raised in the house of a drug addicted prostitute in a slum... which was raised by a drug addicted prostitute in a slum, begats a DIFFERENT set of MORALS, teachings, examples, and opportunities... none of which support GOD as important, nor even necessarily existent...
GOD brought forth these lives in BOTH scenarios of HIS CHOOSING... Which type of scenario is more condusive to SPIRITUAL victory? Does it display IMPARTIALITY?
Well, to the CARNAL observer it does not... for the one is amongst PLENTY, and GOOD, and VICTORIOUS example... while the other is amongst POVERTY, and EVIL and IMMORAL example... HOWEVER:
GOOD as a "KNOWLEDGE" is found to be KNOWN, by the LIVING EXAMPLES of BOTH... the one ON TOP, ...KNOWS he is ON TOP, because he sees (in and BY the living display/example) -- the one on the BOTTOM... and the one on the BOTTOM, ...KNOWS he is on the BOTTOM, because he sees (in and BY the living display/example) -- the one ON TOP...
So in His CHOOSING of these... GOD makes Himself RESPONSIBLE to bring BOTH back to CENTER... of HIS DOING... not theirs...
We must therefore TEACH others that BY, ...DOING GOOD, NOT just speaking about it, ...we then shall help others to do the same as well... and thereby give those immersed in EVIL, an
example to FOLLOW... (
Gal 5:22 / Eph 5:9)
Quote from: SOtW on November 22, 2008, 07:25:43 PMSo you cannot have it both ways, either you are responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks straight at you; or you are not responsible and accountable for your actions, both good and bad and God looks the other way because you have no responsibility or accountability anyways. Think about what you say before you reply.
ALL must consider their actions... especially those of faith... for if your actions are found to be flagrantly and flippantly disobedient (in disbelief, or mockery)... you shall suffer the SHAME for them in the EXPOSURE of your
ACCOUNT (word of TRUTH of your life)... (
Rev 3:18)
RESPONSIBILITY is
YOUR insisted premise, ...and is NOT one of the WORD, nor has it been named (to my knowledge) a parameter by others here...
ACCOUNTABILITY ...
IS... a premise of the WORD... and HAS been named a parameter by others here...
GOD will JUDGE ALL men, ...btw, ...he doesn't need YOUR HELP... :dontknow:
I will conclude this address (and subsequent ones) of you with this:
I LOVE you in the Lord, bro... even though we find disagreement on an almost continuous basis... :HeartThrob: ..so...
:dsunny: Heed your own advice: "Think about what you say before you reply"... :wink1:
peacE...
willieH :icon_king:
Quote from: SOtW
Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.
Craig, who was Jesus talking about here? The Jew's. Notice, it says "according to their
works". We don't have works of our own, they are Christ works.
Quote from: SOtW
John 5:28-30
"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to crisis. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
Same here. Jesus is speaking to the Jew's
Quote from: SOtW
2 Corinthians 5:9-10
We make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
And what will we receive? Life ever after
Quote from: SOtW
Ephesians 6:8
Knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.
Colossians 3:25
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
Don't you think this is talking about the consequences in this life?
Quote from: SOtW
So you can live in your imaginary world, where you do no wrong and are not responsible for anything you have done; but that won't stop the God for holding you accountable because you are not repentant. This is not a fear, this is reality. He holds you accountable for the good you have done, and he holds you accountable for the wrong you have done.
I never said I did no wrong. What did we need Jesus for if we are still going to be punished for our sins?
Quote from: SOtW
1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
We have all sinned, but those who confess their sins, admit they are wrong and have done wrong, will they find their sins forgiven and life waits. For those who do not believe they have sinned, do not hold themselves accountable for their action of sin, they will find crisis and corrective punishment awaits them. Crisis and punishment which all could have been avoided had their pride not come in the way and denied them the inheritance of the Kingdom of God.
The same end result makes this more relevant. We either get to the end with reward, or we get to the end suffering loss. The choice is ours, not God's who is rewarded and who suffers loss.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Despite what anyone tells you, there are some in this world who will never experience loss, nor be saved as though escaping through the flames. You either die to self in this journey avoiding Second Death, the Lake of Fire; or, you can live to self in this journey and be thrown in to the Lake of Fire, suffering Second Death.
2 Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
The onus is now on you, the recipient of such knowledge, be reconciled to God (which means giving up on yourself). Or do not be reconciled to God and suffer the destruction that comes always after pride.
2 Corinthians 5:20
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
Craig, I never deny that I am a sinful person but because of Jesus I am free. I am buried with him, I am
dead. How can a dead person sin? You quote the New Covenant writings to prove your point, works were still active in the New Covenant. Personally I am not in a Covenant, I am sitting on the right hand of God in Christ. Where are you? Craig, I don't mean to sound like a smart alec, or anything, when I ask "where are you??
CHB
Quote from: SOtW on November 22, 2008, 10:34:22 PM
He reconciled you without taking your sins into account. That means you are reconciled despite your sin. That does not mean He won't discipline you if you continue walking by your sinful nature. God will not take into account your sin, regarding salvation or reconciliation, but He will keep you accountable your deeds whether good or bad. For every good done as well as wrong done, He will repay accordingly, without partiality.
This is
FEAR or TERROR being taught, and is all about WORKS, not LOVE...
LOVE shall not only teach
FORGIVENESS, ...but IMPLORE it (see verse quoted in the end of this post)... Forgiveness means just what it says... THAT the one FORGIVEN is NOT DUE any additional REPRIMAND from the "FORGIVER"...
If I FORGIVE you :Peck: for stepping on my sore toe... and then PUNCH you in the mouth to "GET EVEN" :hammerhead: ("disciplinary REPAYMENT" as you propose = hurt
you for hurting
me)...
My so called, "FORGIVENESS" is in fact, HOLLOW :idea2: ...and certainly MUCH LESS by ACTION, than it
proposed to you in WORD... :director: :mwink:
As I see it, ...your current understanding of "FORGIVENESS" is quite short of the meaning of the true meaning OF the word, and the meaning IN the WORD...
Our SAVIOR,
JESUS CHRIST said in His final moments to
YHVH: "Father,
FORGIVE them, for they KNOW
NOT, what they
DO..." (
Luke 24:34)
FORGIVE, ...and it's practice will GROW a tree of LOVE, within you... :love1:
LOVE you in
JESUS, bro! :HeartThrob:
peacE...
willieH :icon_king:
FORGIVE, ...and it's practice will GROW a tree of LOVE, within you
:bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance:
:icon_flower:
wow true!! , good words willie!!
I love the Lords ways .............
good to see you posting Bro G !!! :HeartThrob: