A Look On Wrath

[Tim B]

I looked up the word "wrath" on biblegateway.com (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=wrath&version1=31&searchtype=all) and from what I can gather in the New Testament it seems like wrath only has to do with the HERE and NOW on the Earth. I don't see anything about God punishing people with his wrath after they die. Certainly, Jesus talks about the age-lasting fire (made for the Adversary and his messengers) which consists of age-lasting chastisement, and he speaks of the Lake of Fire, but these don't seem to consist of the wrath that Paul often talks of in the New Testament. The Lake of Fire and the age-lasting fire seem like chastisement (as were Jesus' own words on the purpose of the age-lasting fire), but not so much wrath.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that the wrath of God is aimed at sin (as per Romans 1:18, which might mean that wrath is ONLY AIMED AT SIN, but I'm not sure), and people WHILE only while they're on Earth.

However, I suppose, it doesn't really matter if God's wrath is completely made evident on this Earth or not, because God seems to suggest to purify with it:

Zephaniah 3:8-9 (Amplified Bible)

8Therefore [earnestly] wait for Me, says the Lord, [waiting] for the day when I rise up to the attack [as a witness, accuser, or judge, and a testimony]. For My decision and determination and right it is to gather the nations together, to assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them My indignation [[aka wrath]], even all [the heat of] My fierce anger; for [in that day] all the earth shall be consumed with the fire of My zeal and jealousy.

    9For then [changing their impure language] I will give to the people a clear and pure speech from pure lips, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one unanimous consent and one united shoulder [bearing the yoke of the Lord].

I don't know exactly. But talking to Lee100 on the other part of the forum made me think about God's wrath and it's purpose.

I'm still inclined to think, probably due to my former belief in Hell, that wrath = bad.
I'd like to get out of this nature of thinking, but I still tend to worry about such things as God's wrath.

What are some of your thoughts on God's wrath?

[Paul Hazelwood]

One of the misapplications of the attributes of God is separating love from any of them.  There are many attributes of God, but Love is not one of them.   Love is what God IS.

So even Gods wrath,  the word hate when talking about God,  must be seen through Love.

The bible does not have the phrase "God is wrath" or "God is hate"  so this saying we have, Gods ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts is not about us not being able to comprehend, it is seeing things in a manner that is not like men.


Gods wrath is what sent Jesus Christ.  God hated Esau , yes he did, he hated him Gods way so that he would not remain that way forever.

[WhiteWings]

The bible does not have the phrase "God is wrath" or "God is hate" 

Just from memory isn't there a verse like: For our God is a jealous God. A vengeful God.
?
Of course not claiming His vengance has no end.

[Paul Hazelwood]

The bible does not have the phrase "God is wrath" or "God is hate" 

Just from memory isn't there a verse like: For our God is a jealous God. A vengeful God.
?
Of course not claiming His vengance has no end.

In my opinion that is not the same as a declaration of what God IS   It is not saying,  God is Jealousy  or God is vengeance. Perhaps I am wrong about that,  none of that can be separated from Love.

So it still has to be seen through Love.   

[WhiteWings]

Clear Paul.

Is your view similar too?
- God is love.
- All/most other things are add-ons and of lower priority.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Clear Paul.

Is your view similar too?
- God is love.
- All/most other things are add-ons and of lower priority.

Similar yes, because I believe there is a passage that even implies at least that we can be in error of  knowledge but Love is the priority over being right.

I know I indeed fail in the attempt,  but I know the goal.

[WhiteWings]

But that's a little different.
You and I have limited skills. But not so for God. So the "in error" part can't be the explanation of Gods love.

The story as a whole always seems to lead somehow to love as an endresult. :thumbsup:

[Paul Hazelwood]

But that's a little different.
You and I have limited skills. But not so for God. So the "in error" part can't be the explanation of Gods love.

The story as a whole always seems to lead somehow to love as an endresult. :thumbsup:

Certainly I believe that to be true.   

[gregoryfl]

Christ, by means of sinful flesh, condemned sin in it, which is to say, he judged it as worthy of being rendered powerless and inoperative. Jesus himself did not pass judgment on sin, but let his life lived without sin in sinful flesh to the point of death judge and thus condemn sin. When Father expressed his wrath, it was not on the Son specifically, as if he was so peeved that he needed to be appeased. That is the thought of pagan religious groups. No, the Father was judging sin in the flesh of Jesus, his wrath was being expressed on it.

It is similar to say, cancer. Not that I advocate any form of medical treatment for it, but for the sake of illustration let's just say that the doctor administers chemotherapy. From our perspective, it appears as though the chemo is being administered to the person, but that isn't quite correct. It is not specifically aimed at the person, but aimed instead at the cancer that he is treating. The whole reason that is done is based on judgment, namely, that judgment which says that cancer does not belong in that body and needs to be eradicated. Even though from our perspective the judgment is being meted out on the person, in fact, it is not. It is on the cancer.

His wrath was the cure for the disease (if you will) of sin. Therefore, while judgment appeared to be meted out on Jesus, it was actually being meted out on sin and all it represents.

I believe that the way the body physically deals with things provides a spiritual example of the reality of how God dealt with sin in the person of Jesus. This is something I just thought of so it may not come out right, but here goes:

What does the body do when a foreign thing invades it? We all know that the body sends the white blood cells to attack it, but there is something else that occurs, and that is a fever. Yes, the body raises its temperature in order to kill what doesn't belong there.

I believe that God's wrath can be likened to that fever. I used to have this picture of a very angry God venting all of his wrath on Jesus on the cross until he got it all out and relaxed. I no longer see it that way.

God's wrath was being expressed within Jesus, in the same way a fever is expressed, killing sin in his body by it. This, to me, helps me to see how it is that, as the scripture says Jesus "condemned sin in the flesh."

So yes, I believe God's wrath is a loving remedy being applied for man against everything not of Him, that what is of Him is revealed as pure.

Ron

[Tim B]

Thanks for all your input guys!

It's also interesting to note that Jesus only ever talked about being punished until one has paid back all that one owes (which assumes it CAN be paid back) or being given many or lesser stripes. And, when he speaks of the FIRE prepared for the ADVERSARY and HIS MESSENGERS, he speaks of chastisement (meaning, corrective punishment). This to me, seems to suggest, that no matter what God's wrath is, even if it were to physically kill the person, MUST be remedial for the one being received. Also, the second death, aka the Lake of Fire? I think this must be speaking of man's second death. First man died in Adam, and then God has them die to themselves INTO Christ unto quickening in the Spirit and Life. How else will DEATH be annulled and swallowed up in victory?

God spoke of a time that EVERY KNEE WOULD BOW, and EVERY tongue would swear ALLEGIANCE. (As is in my signature.) God won't have people swear allegiance to him. Allegiance means to take sides with:

al⋅le⋅giance  [uh-lee-juhns]
–noun
1.   the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.
2.   loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like.

God isn't going to reject those who take His side, especially if that's what He desires, and ultimately WILLS. (Who WILLS ALL men to be saved, and come to the truth. For Christ died as a ransom for ALL.) :bigGrin:

I think God forgives us through His son's sacrifice, in that He made a way that our sin would be stripped clean from us through Christ's power and through His work in us. He cured our sicknesses. Including the sickness of sin.

It's interesting to note: EVEN if we were to pay for our sins, as in, be punished for ALL that we've done wrong, it wouldn't make our sin problem go away. Deep healing is needed for that! Thanks be to Jesus Christ!  He IS the cure! :bgdance: