satan is saved?

[micah7:9]

I wonder if anyone thinks that Satan was testing Jesus because he doubted that Jesus was the Son of God?

He tries to get Jesus to perform miracles [stone to bread], jump off a pinnacle and caught by angels, and worship him.

Jesus, who could have presumably done all of these things, refused.

But, what would have happened had Jesus agreed to any of them?

How would things have been different?

I believe things would have been different. Good question. As you Molly have said before, the devil is the god of this world, all the devil offered had been given to him. If Jesus would have agreed He would have bowed to that god.. and I, and you would not have the peace we rest in. Just my opinion.

[sheila]

Heaven forbid,if the Son of God,who come to do the will of the Father,should do the will of Satan.....who

is satan,that the son of God should do his will? no matter what guise[prove it]

  it is always a missing of the mark..to ever do the will of satan

[sheila]

hey Micah, when I was ready to post..your post was at the same time!! double wittness

[Molly]

Thanks!

So how would this relate to us?

Are we tempted by Satan to do his will just to 'prove it'--that we can?

That we are who we say we are?

Is there a type of temptation that would cause us to betray God for the enemy out of pride, or something else?

[micah7:9]

Thanks!

So how would this relate to us?

Are we tempted by Satan to do his will just to 'prove it'--that we can?

That we are who we say we are?

Is there a type of temptation that would cause us to betray God for the enemy out of pride, or something else?

Any type of temptation would do the trick.
For me, I am tried every single day in my walk and I have bandages on elbow and knees. I understand that whatever befalls me, whether it be my own choice or any trouble I face or good that I may do, is of my Father. It is His grace that works in me and it is His faith that keeps me giving the glory to Him for all things. The adversary desires for me to NOT have that knowledge.
Job 2:10  But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

[sheila]

well,Molly..to me,part of it is realizing any gift[spiritual or material] He should give us..is not to elevate

us over the brothers..but to be used to elevate/minister to our Brothers....It should always be used to build up

the whole body..not build up ourselves in their eyes[selfishness]. So that all needs are met...

  the gifts are like talents..we are to use them to increase our Father's holdings/Kingdom......His interests

  not our own selfish interests[God pleasers not men pleasers]

  and Micah is right about Job's words....indeed He has set up this exercize in good/evil for His children

eternal good...and we must face that..but He has promised  no weapon[evil] formed against you shall

suceed..

 

[lomarah]

Yes! Amen!

[eaglesway]

I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens", but as I have said many times, there is not enough written (imo) to make confident assertions about how he came to be what he is. If Jesus was not temtped then I think all of this begins to take on the bogus tone of a meaningless facade or "danse macabre".

Jesus, in the flesh, was "tempted in all ways as we are yet without sin"- He overcame in every instance of temptation, perhaps the greatest of those moments being in the Garden at Gethsamane. His victory, as a sacrifice Lamb- a spotless offering, is made all the more poigniant for us in that He was tempted as we are- overcame- and yet paid our penalty. This is why it is written that we have a high priest who can "sympathize with our weakness". He was was here. He tasted it in far more human fashion than religionists would have us believe.

At some point, we believe that the adversary will bow his knee and confess with his tongue that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father- because he has been won into the light. Therefore I consider it a reasonable possibility that as the the Father is using the church to teach His wisdom to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms, Jesus' reaction to these temptations was also a part of the Father's plan to redeem the adversary, for it must remain in his mind that Jesus overcame him by the wisdom of God.

[omantodd2000]

Oman said, "When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness . . .the king of darkness, as tradition percieves satan to be . . .the king of darkness has NOTHING that would ever tempt Jesus.  Yet Scripture says he indeed was tempted."

So you can either deny scripture says Jesus was tempted by satan or the alternative would be where it says satan has nothing that would tempt Jesus.
It's possible that satan has nothing to tempt Jesus because satan has nothing. period. nothing that Jesus didn't give him or allow him.

Being tempted to turn stones into bread is not an evil desire since food is a requirement for life. Doing it because satan suggested it however, is never a good idea - especially when the forty days is a time of testing and Jesus passed the test of putting the will of the father before his own.

IMO,Jesus had been baptized by John and given the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 3:16). How was the power to be used? To make life easy by using the power for selfish purposes (making stones into bread)? By "converting" Israel through dazzling displays of divine power (by casting himself down from the pinnacle of the temple)? By avoiding the agony and humiliation of crucifixion and death by taking the kingdoms of the world (his miracles would have assured this - cf. John 6:14, 15)? These are possible explanations for the specific temptations. All would be of Jesus's own desires. Christ knew the scripture and that God rules in the kingdoms of men and gives power to whomever he pleases. If it were anyone else offering him the kingdoms of men it would not be a temptation, satan would not have the power to give him those kingdom. This power rests only with God and God had already given that power to Christ, that is why it was a temptation to him. Instead of giving into it he was obedient unto death. So do you believe satan has the power to give kingdoms or does God?

[dajomaco]

wow, oman, you gotta go a long way to get to schizophrenic pigs committing suicide. I find that much harder to believe than disembodied spirits or demons.  :laugh:

It was the man that was schizophrenic not the pigs. I just realized that I am basically trying to explain to children why the boogie man does not exist.

Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through His death He might destroy the one holding the power of death—that is, the Devil —

[ded2daworld]

IMO satan has the power to do whatever God allows him to.
Just as with Job, Satan can do a lot, but only with permission.
Permission that fits in with God's plan.
"Where there is no temptation, there is no virtue" - Jeff Smith

[eaglesway]

IMO satan has the power to do whatever God allows him to.
Just as with Job, Satan can do a lot, but only with permission.
Permission that fits in with God's plan.
"Where there is no temptation, there is no virtue" - Jeff Smith

I agree with that

[micah7:9]

IMO satan has the power to do whatever God allows him to.
Just as with Job, Satan can do a lot, but only with permission.
Permission that fits in with God's plan.
"Where there is no temptation, there is no virtue" - Jeff Smith

The adversary/satan IS God's plan. There is no allowing by God, IT IS God who causes....ALL things to do, and that includes the adversary. IT'S ALL GOD or it's no GOD.

[micah7:9]

I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens", but as I have said many times, there is not enough written (imo) to make confident assertions about how he came to be what he is. If Jesus was not temtped then I think all of this begins to take on the bogus tone of a meaningless facade or "danse macabre".

Jesus, in the flesh, was "tempted in all ways as we are yet without sin"- He overcame in every instance of temptation, perhaps the greatest of those moments being in the Garden at Gethsamane. His victory, as a sacrifice Lamb- a spotless offering, is made all the more poigniant for us in that He was tempted as we are- overcame- and yet paid our penalty. This is why it is written that we have a high priest who can "sympathize with our weakness". He was was here. He tasted it in far more human fashion than religionists would have us believe.

At some point, we believe that the adversary will bow his knee and confess with his tongue that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father- because he has been won into the light. Therefore I consider it a reasonable possibility that as the the Father is using the church to teach His wisdom to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms, Jesus' reaction to these temptations was also a part of the Father's plan to redeem the adversary, for it must remain in his mind that Jesus overcame him by the wisdom of God.

When you say this, "I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens"

Just what do you mean?

[Molly]

IMO satan has the power to do whatever God allows him to.
Just as with Job, Satan can do a lot, but only with permission.
Permission that fits in with God's plan.
"Where there is no temptation, there is no virtue" - Jeff Smith

But, don't get too comfortable because in the last days Satan indwells a man.  He which has been holding Satan back, no longer holds him back.

And, then for 3.5 years, it's Annie bar the door because all Hell will break loose.

IMO, of course.


For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now restraineth will restrain, until he be taken out of the way.
--2 Thess 2:7

[micah7:9]

Better stated the adversary indwells man(humanity un-repentant).

[Molly]

well, I call him Satan so as to be as clear as possible.

But, when you look at all the evil in the world, it's hard to believe he is being held back [he is], and it's hard to imagine what things will look like when he's not.



But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short."

--Rev 12:12

[eaglesway]

I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens", but as I have said many times, there is not enough written (imo) to make confident assertions about how he came to be what he is. If Jesus was not temtped then I think all of this begins to take on the bogus tone of a meaningless facade or "danse macabre".

Jesus, in the flesh, was "tempted in all ways as we are yet without sin"- He overcame in every instance of temptation, perhaps the greatest of those moments being in the Garden at Gethsamane. His victory, as a sacrifice Lamb- a spotless offering, is made all the more poigniant for us in that He was tempted as we are- overcame- and yet paid our penalty. This is why it is written that we have a high priest who can "sympathize with our weakness". He was was here. He tasted it in far more human fashion than religionists would have us believe.

At some point, we believe that the adversary will bow his knee and confess with his tongue that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father- because he has been won into the light. Therefore I consider it a reasonable possibility that as the the Father is using the church to teach His wisdom to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms, Jesus' reaction to these temptations was also a part of the Father's plan to redeem the adversary, for it must remain in his mind that Jesus overcame him by the wisdom of God.

When you say this, "I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens"

Just what do you mean?

Luk 10:18  And He(Jesus) said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven".

Jesus saw Satan fall like lightning from out of the heavens. This is one reason why I believe the "you were the anointed cherub until iniquity was found in you" passage  refers to Satan.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
(Eze 28:13-17)

I am not pressing this as doctrine, it is prophetic and literally obscure- but it is what I believe is a "thru the glass darkly" insight into the origins and nature of Satan. He was Lifted Up.

The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke(taskmaster), he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming(satan and the beast and the false prophet chained): it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: :
(Isa 14:5-13)

I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

He took Jesus up to a high place and showed Him all the kingdoms of the earth and said this is all mine to give you. He thought the desire of his heart would win the Son of God to him. It did not. He had been ejected from his stewardship for seeing himself not as a part of a tapestry, but as the focus of the plan, the center of all. That was when iniquity was found in him and like lightning instantly he was no longer the anointed cherub that covers he became the prince of the power of the air, the father of lies, the author of confusion.

As you said earlier, Satan indwells unrepentant humanity. God gave stewardship to Adam. Adam gave it over to the enemy.

I also think those prophecies are a peek into the one who is to come in all deceiving miracles and power of Satan, the final and greatest anti-christ of them all, who sets himself in the holy place above God and every so-called God, doing abominations and speaking out blasphemy against God and the hosts of heaven, warring against and wearing out the saints- that gy that Molly was just talking about.

I believe that God saw all this beforehand, it was a part of the plan.

[micah7:9]

well, I call him Satan so as to be as clear as possible.

But, when you look at all the evil in the world, it's hard to believe he is being held back [he is], and it's hard to imagine what things will look like when he's not.



But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short."

--Rev 12:12

I don't know how to explain this but i will just say it the way i immediately i saw it, this post jumped
out as total confusion. The thought was just who is or has power? i don't mean to "stir up" it just happened when I read it. :sigh: :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens", but as I have said many times, there is not enough written (imo) to make confident assertions about how he came to be what he is. If Jesus was not temtped then I think all of this begins to take on the bogus tone of a meaningless facade or "danse macabre".

Jesus, in the flesh, was "tempted in all ways as we are yet without sin"- He overcame in every instance of temptation, perhaps the greatest of those moments being in the Garden at Gethsamane. His victory, as a sacrifice Lamb- a spotless offering, is made all the more poigniant for us in that He was tempted as we are- overcame- and yet paid our penalty. This is why it is written that we have a high priest who can "sympathize with our weakness". He was was here. He tasted it in far more human fashion than religionists would have us believe.

At some point, we believe that the adversary will bow his knee and confess with his tongue that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father- because he has been won into the light. Therefore I consider it a reasonable possibility that as the the Father is using the church to teach His wisdom to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms, Jesus' reaction to these temptations was also a part of the Father's plan to redeem the adversary, for it must remain in his mind that Jesus overcame him by the wisdom of God.

When you say this, "I believe Satan essentially tempted Jesus with the same things that had caused him to be "drawn away of his own lusts and enticed" and "fall like lightning out of the hevens"

Just what do you mean?

Luk 10:18  And He(Jesus) said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven".

Jesus saw Satan fall like lightning from out of the heavens. This is one reason why I believe the "you were the anointed cherub until iniquity was found in you" passage  refers to Satan.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
(Eze 28:13-17)

I am not pressing this as doctrine, it is prophetic and literally obscure- but it is what I believe is a "thru the glass darkly" insight into the origins and nature of Satan. He was Lifted Up.

The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke(taskmaster), he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming(satan and the beast and the false prophet chained): it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: :
(Isa 14:5-13)

I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

He took Jesus up to a high place and showed Him all the kingdoms of the earth and said this is all mine to give you. He thought the desire of his heart would win the Son of God to him. It did not. He had been ejected from his stewardship for seeing himself not as a part of a tapestry, but as the focus of the plan, the center of all. That was when iniquity was found in him and like lightning instantly he was no longer the anointed cherub that covers he became the prince of the power of the air, the father of lies, the author of confusion.

As you said earlier, Satan indwells unrepentant humanity. God gave stewardship to Adam. Adam gave it over to the enemy.

I also think those prophecies are a peek into the one who is to come in all deceiving miracles and power of Satan, the final and greatest anti-christ of them all, who sets himself in the holy place above God and every so-called God, doing abominations and speaking out blasphemy against God and the hosts of heaven, warring against and wearing out the saints- that gy that Molly was just talking about.

I believe that God saw all this beforehand, it was a part of the plan.

If you chose to believe what you believe, ill not "stir it up." God bless :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

oh Molly..that's exactly what I was shown day before yesterday[man of sin,man of lawlessness revealed

[sheila]

when He who restrains/holds back..is taken out of the way...every man's hand shall be against his brother..

  it is the revealing of the man of sin. demonic 'madness'[his time is short] asexhibited in the sandy hook

  travesty.

[lomarah]

well, I call him Satan so as to be as clear as possible.

But, when you look at all the evil in the world, it's hard to believe he is being held back [he is], and it's hard to imagine what things will look like when he's not.



But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short."

--Rev 12:12

I read this on Hall Worthington's site awhile back. It certainly won't be pretty but I say bring it on because the Lord's army will prevail and the end of all sin and evil and death is nigh! Praise God and Hallelujah!!

[Molly]

when He who restrains/holds back..is taken out of the way...every man's hand shall be against his brother..

  it is the revealing of the man of sin. demonic 'madness'[his time is short] asexhibited in the sandy hook

  travesty.

It does seem like it's starting to happen now, doesn't it?

Things we never would have imagined in the past are happening with more and more frequency.   Same is true, it seems, for natural disasters.  Who ever heard of a tidal wave hitting New Jersey?  Although the Long Island Express of 1938 was apparently pretty bad.

[Molly]

well, I call him Satan so as to be as clear as possible.

But, when you look at all the evil in the world, it's hard to believe he is being held back [he is], and it's hard to imagine what things will look like when he's not.



But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short."

--Rev 12:12

I don't know how to explain this but i will just say it the way i immediately i saw it, this post jumped
out as total confusion. The thought was just who is or has power? i don't mean to "stir up" it just happened when I read it. :sigh: :HeartThrob:

Even though evil exists, it is now being held back.

It's important to note that evil knows no boundaries.  It has no foundation.  It just keeps sinking lower and lower.  It's like goodness in freefall into the depths of the abyss.

What is holding evil back in this world?  I assume the Holy Spirit, as carried in the earthen vessels of God's people.  Why will the Holy Spirit be taken out of the way?  It could refer to the rapture.  Or it could be that, as Daniel says, the holy people are so broken and constrained by the Antichrist that they have to more power to intervene.

But, this is what will happen according to the prophets.