satan is saved?

[sheila]

...and pray thusly...lead us NOT into temptation..but deliver us from the adversary[satan spirit of rebellion

  that misleads[liar and thief] from God's will]  Let no-one say he is tempted of God.........

    Father may allow us to be tried..but it is not His spirit that tempts.

[omantodd2000]

Jesus was tempted by satan (hebrew for adversary). So what is man tempted by, only one thing according to the bible, his own evil desires James 1:14
"and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed," Christ was tempted in every way that we are. Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin."

[sheila]

well..we have sin in our flesh...that can be tempted out[compel to action]  Jesus said........

   'the Prince of this world comes..and he has nothing in me"

[omantodd2000]

well..we have sin in our flesh...that can be tempted out[compel to action]  Jesus said........

   'the Prince of this world comes..and he has nothing in me"

In reading that I feel as though he is probably talking about sin being the ruler and in not having any hold on him or having nothing in him. That sin does not dwell in him and the grave does not have a hold on him. If someone believes in a literal satan, a physical being, I always like to ask them who is he and where did he come from?

[sheila]

the adversary is sin...and all it's fruits..an evil spirit of rebellion against God..it has no physical body

  of it's own..that's why it wanted God's throne..and flesh of mankind to dwell in.  We wrestle not

against flesh and blood..but powers and principalities in high places.

  satan/adversary/evil spirit/sin is an evil tool God made to provide the negative contrast in this exercize

  in good/evil for all the children of God.  and as we have bore the image of the corruptible one,

  so,too,we shall bear the image of the incorruptible one.

[reFORMer]

I understand the devil or Satan is the evil one; but, is he wicked?  Evil is not sin.  A pain is evil but not necessarily sinful or wrong.  Sin is sometimes something good, like fornication is pleasure (which would be right if there was a marriage license.)  While it seems any living spirits would be corrected in their development across the ages, I wonder if it is always right to say that if the devil gets "saved" he wouldn't be the devil anymore.  Luther said, "Even the devil is God's devil."  Maybe it's right for the devil to be as he is.  Could it be God needs such a servant whose specialty is evil?  I'm not entirely certain about this.

[micah7:9]

"Could it be God needs such a servant whose specialty is evil? " I would say purposed.

Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,

[Molly]

I understand the devil or Satan is the evil one; but, is he wicked.  Evil is not sin.  A pain is evil but not necessarily sinful or wrong.  Sin is sometimes something good, like fornication is pleasure (which would be right if there was a marriage license.)  While it seems any living spirits would be corrected in their development across the ages, I wonder if it is always right to say that if the devil gets "saved" he wouldn't be the devil anymore.  Luther said, "Even the devil is God's devil."  Maybe it's right for the devil to be as he is.  Could it be God needs such a servant whose specialty is evil?  I'm not entirely certain about this.

He is the god of this age.  Our God has allowed it.

We, who are born out of due time, born prematurely, born into the wrong age, born as the firstfruits, must vibrate [a new song] against him and his minions.


For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

--Eph 6

[dajomaco]

Evil requires fear.

Evil that has no fear to keep it comfortable must go out to the dry places

Love that has it's foundation in Faith.
Love is the most powerful essence in the universe,
Evil flees when the power of Love is present,
Jesus through the Holy Spirit has given this essence freely
we count it as pure joy to pray in faith and over come.

Love is blind ----    to fear

[Molly]

Evil doesn't so much require fear.  It requires good men to do nothing, out of fear.

Which is why he tells us--



Luke 9:24 ... whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.

[dajomaco]

Is praying doing nothing?

[Molly]

Praying is vibrating against--


evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

--Eph 6

[eaglesway]

"Could it be God needs such a servant whose specialty is evil? " I would say purposed.

Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,

Anything taken out of the context of the whole Logos can say anything. I like to factor the Lord Jesus' testimony and Paul's into the whole truth. It helps me understand the mind of God.

Get behind me Satan, for your interests are the interests of man, not God.

Where the KJV translates "I create evil" IMO It is speaking of the judgment of God upon the rebellious, by calamities such as plagues and invasions, etc.

This is borne out a few verses later.

Woe to him who strives with his Maker!--a worthless piece of broken pottery among other pieces equally worthless [and yet presuming to strive with his Maker]! Shall the clay say to him who fashions it, What do you think you are making? or, Your work has no handles?  (Isa 45:9 Amp)

whatever the adversary is, nowhere in the scripture is he described as a servant , altho in the end of course, God causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will.......even the evil works of His adversaries, among whom we all at one time walked.

[micah7:9]

"Where the KJV translates "I create evil" IMO It is speaking of the judgment of God upon the rebellious, by calamities such as plagues and invasions, etc. "
Gen. 2:9 "...... and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. " Same word evil as in Isa. 45

"whatever the adversary is, nowhere in the scripture is he described as a servant , altho in the end of course, God causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will.......even the evil works of His adversaries, among whom we all at one time walked."  " God causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will...."
------- the adversary would fall under obedience or to do, yes?


Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,

Is the "context" misplaced?  I for one will leave ALL responsibility of how the world began and continues in the hands of the Creator.

The Bible reads.. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
This is the "context" of what he said. Yes?

[eaglesway]

IMO, No it is not. In the particular chapter of Isaiah(45) you are quoting from, God is threatening Israel with chaos because of her backsliding.

The light is compared to its opposite darkness. Peace is compared to its opposite chaos.

Did James misunderstand when he said,

Blessed is the man who is patient under trial and stands up under temptation, for when he has stood the test and been approved, he will receive [the victor's] crown of life which God has promised to those who love Him.
Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one.
But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).
Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.
(Jas 1:12-15)

There are 569 occurrences of the word evil in the KJV. We could throw them back and forth at one another all day :o)

But IMO There is nothing in the scriptures that indicates that Satan was created as a servant of God- there is much that says the opposite of that. So are we to assume now that the scriptures oppose one another? I don't think so. I think we will understand it better by and by.

God created all things- we agree on that, we just disagree on how wickedness was conceived. I am not saying I am totally right and you are totally wrong either. It is about the "mystery of iniquity" that we speak. The answers are not so simple :o)

[micah7:9]

Ok let me get this straight, we are not allowed to use Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things... unless I am speaking of a backsliding Israel?
So, the verse does not REALLY mean that the Lord formed the light, and created darkness: makes peace and creates evil?
I believe Psa 119:160 The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!
So ALL of His Word is True, and He said He created evil, I believe Him.



I will retract the adversary as a servant and say it this way. The adversary was created by the Creator, to carrying out the Creators purposes. The adversary is powerless outside of the Creators purpose.
By saying this, I am not denying, the adversary's fierceness and power as the god of this world; the adversary is a formidable foe with one purpose, to reek havoc on believers and attempt to cause believers to deny Jesus Christ the Savior of the whole world.

"God created all things- we agree on that, we just disagree on how wickedness was conceived...."

all is created through Him and for Him, 17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."(CLV)

Perhaps you my friend you cannot accept that The Lord and Creator is the infinite Wisdom that is able to use evil, wickedness and love and forgiveness for His Good.
Job 26:13  By His Spirit the heavens He beautified, Formed hath His hand the fleeing serpent.

Peace and Love

[ded2daworld]

Micah,  :iagree: :Peace2:
You said in a nice way what I've said before in a kinda bad way.
Don't read the next line if you are easily offended below
what Micah said above concerning Satan. I apologise in advance for
any that continue to read and get offended
"Satan is God's bitch."

[micah7:9]

Micah,  :iagree: :Peace2:
You said in a nice way what I've said before in a kinda bad way.
Don't read the next line if you are easily offended below
what Micah said above concerning Satan. I apologise in advance for
any that continue to read and get offended
"Satan is God's bitch."

:dsunny:

[sheila]

I SEE TRUTH IN BOTH POV'S.......THE EVIL WAS BUILT IN TO THE TOKOGAE..DISOBEDIANCE..WAS

WHAT CAUSED IT TO ENTER[SEE COVENANT CURSES FOR DISOBEDIANCE...CHILDREN BECOME

  DEMON POSSESSED....EVERYTHING DISINTERGRATES INTO CHOAS.

  BUT..THE ADVERSARY WAS GOD'S RIVAL ALSO..IT FIRST SLANDERED HIS MOTIVES AND

INTENTIONS TO EVE[AS A RIVAL WOULD] AND THROUGH SEDUCTION ENTICED HER TO PARTAKE

  HE COVETED GOD'S POSITION FOREMOST.....

   THE EVIL TOOL..BOTH TEMPTOR AND ACCUSOR..SERVES GOD'S PURPOSE THAT HIS CHILDREN

DISCERN GOOD FROM EVIL.

  NOW..IN THE LAW IT IS SPELLED OUT THAT IF A MAN KNOW HE HAS A DANGEROUS BEAST..THAT

HE TAKE PRECAUTIONS TO PROTECT LIFE........GOD MAKING LEVIATHAN BEHEMOTH AND

DAMAGING SPIRITUAL BEASTS HAS ALSO SEEN TO IT THAT WE ARE PROTECTED FROM ETERNAL

HARM..BUT AT THE SAME TIME SUFFER TEMPORAL CONSEQUENCES FOR NOT DISCERNING THE

DIFFERENCES.  SOMETIMES HARD LESSONS ARE THE BEST ONES LEARNED.

  BASICALLY..LISTEN TO ME..I KNOW MORE THAN YOU..PAY ATTENTION AND HEED MY COMMANDS

FOR YOUR OWN GOOD[COZ IF YOU DON'T THE BUILT IN EVIL TOOL WILL SHOW YOU THE FRUITAGE

OF IT]

  IT'S KIND OFAN AVERSION TECHNIQUE...IT'S LIKE YOU TELL YOUR 5 YR OLD OVER AND OVER

STAY AWAY FROM THAT HOT PAN..BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS...TIL SHE GET'S BURNED..AND

LEARNS FROM PAINFUL EXPIERENCE.  OF COURSE COMPASSION AND HEALING ARE IN ORDER

BY THE PARENT WHEN THIS OCCURRS..MAYBE WITH AN ADMONISHMENT..LISTEN TO ME WHEN

I TELL YOU SOMETHING

[Lazarus Short]

"Satan is God's bitch."

God keeps Satan on a short leash as well.

[micah7:9]

"BUT..THE ADVERSARY WAS GOD'S RIVAL ALSO..IT FIRST SLANDERED HIS MOTIVES AND

INTENTIONS TO EVE[AS A RIVAL WOULD] AND THROUGH SEDUCTION ENTICED HER TO PARTAKE

  HE COVETED GOD'S POSITION FOREMOST....."

"...THE ADVERSARY WAS GOD'S RIVAL ...." this sounds much like the fabled beautiful cherub and lucifer stuff. The adversary is NO rival to God.
".....THROUGH SEDUCTION ENTICED HER TO PARTAKE...."  Read James 1:14 and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed,
Then read Gen. 3:6 And the woman seeth............the serpent, the devil was only there to open the woman's eyes to the beginning of her knowledge,
when she SAW.. pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable.... each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed.
"  HE COVETED GOD'S POSITION FOREMOST....."  this sounds much like the fabled beautiful cherub and lucifer stuff again. The adversary didn't covet anything.

I'm sorry and I mean no offence, but this backward psychological thinking of the logical carnal mind, that if there is a no trespassing sign, that means some one will trespass or " IT'S KIND OFAN AVERSION TECHNIQUE...IT'S LIKE YOU TELL YOUR 5 YR OLD OVER AND OVER

STAY AWAY FROM THAT HOT PAN..BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS...TIL SHE GET'S BURNED..AND

LEARNS FROM PAINFUL EXPIERENCE.  OF COURSE COMPASSION AND HEALING ARE IN ORDER

BY THE PARENT WHEN THIS OCCURRS..MAYBE WITH AN ADMONISHMENT..LISTEN TO ME WHEN

I TELL YOU SOMETHING" I once accepted that thinking, for years..... but God's creation did not malfunction in Genesis chapter 3 nor has God's creation malfunctioned to date, nor is the adversary getting the upper hand on anything. Once it was given me to understand that NOTHING is out of order, I let out a sigh, and felt the wing brush over me.

[sheila]

W HAT? SO YOUR SAYING EVE WAS NOT SEDUCED?  pR 1;10 16;29 ROMANS 16;18 2 THESS 2;3

   2 COR 11;3...AS...THE...SERPENT...SEDUCED...EVE...

   WHAT DO YPOU THINK THE CREATURE BEING SUBJECTED TO VANITY NOT OF IT'S OWN WILL

  BUT BE WHO SUBJECTED IT..SO THAT THE WHOLE CREATION SHALL BE SET FREE INTO

  THE GLORIOUS FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD,MEANS....WHAT IS THE EXERCIZE IN GOOD AND EVIL

  BUT THE LEARNING THROUGH EXPIERENCE?

   WHAT IS NOT SHOWING GOD IN CONTROL OF THE WHOLE SETUP..........?

  THE LORD GOD IS ONE GOD...THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME..THE LORD GOD

IS A JEALOUS GOD........ADVERSARIEL TOOL IS AN ADVERSARY..WHEN IT MISLEADS PEOPLE

INTO REBELLION AGAINST GOD.

  2 THESS 2;4 DON'T LET ANYONE DECEIVE[SEDUCE] YOU.....IN ANY WAY, FOR THAT DAY WILL

NOT COME UNTIL THE REBELLION OCCURS AND THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED

  THE MAN DOOMED TO DESTRUCTION........HE...WILL..OPPOSE...AND..WILL...EXALT HIMSELF

  OVER..EVERYTHING..THAT..IS..CALLED..GOD[COVETS THRONE OF GOD]OR IS WORSHIPPED

  SO...THAT..HE...SETS..HIMSELF...UP...IN...GOD'S...TEMPLE.......

   PROCLAIMING...HIMSELF....GOD......

   THE COMING OF THE LAWLESS ONE  WILL BE IN ACCORDANCE...WITH..THE..WORKS..OF SATAN

    DISPLAYED WITH COUNTERFEIT MIRACLES SIGNS AND WONDERS.....AND IN EVERY SORT


  OF....EVIL...THAT...DECEIVES[SEDUCES]......

  FOR THIS REASON GOD SENDS A POWERFUL DELUSION..............................

  SO...THAT....THEY...WILL...BELIEVE...THE....LIE..............

[micah7:9]

Am I saying...."W HAT? SO YOUR SAYING EVE WAS NOT SEDUCED?  pR 1;10 16;29 ROMANS 16;18 2 THESS 2;3

   2 COR 11;3...AS...THE...SERPENT...SEDUCED...EVE...

Nope, and you have given the verses why. Very good. :Peace2: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Ok let me get this straight, we are not allowed to use Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things... unless I am speaking of a backsliding Israel?
So, the verse does not REALLY mean that the Lord formed the light, and created darkness: makes peace and creates evil?
I believe Psa 119:160 The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!
So ALL of His Word is True, and He said He created evil, I believe Him.



I will retract the adversary as a servant and say it this way. The adversary was created by the Creator, to carrying out the Creators purposes. The adversary is powerless outside of the Creators purpose.
By saying this, I am not denying, the adversary's fierceness and power as the god of this world; the adversary is a formidable foe with one purpose, to reek havoc on believers and attempt to cause believers to deny Jesus Christ the Savior of the whole world.

"God created all things- we agree on that, we just disagree on how wickedness was conceived...."

all is created through Him and for Him, 17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."(CLV)

Perhaps you my friend you cannot accept that The Lord and Creator is the infinite Wisdom that is able to use evil, wickedness and love and forgiveness for His Good.
Job 26:13  By His Spirit the heavens He beautified, Formed hath His hand the fleeing serpent.

Peace and Love

Micah, I didnt say anyone is not allowed to use anything, I am simply sharing my perspective- you are perfectly at liberty to disagree with me, as I am perfectly at liberty to express my perspective. Chill man :o), Peace.

Nor have I said I do not see that God is able to use evil, for He causes all things to work according to the counsel of Hios will, even the freedom He gives to creatures like man and the adversary to be seduced by their own desires and gestate sin and conceive death.

[micah7:9]

Post 37   Quote from: micah7:9 on December 16, 2012, 04:51:40 PM
"Could it be God needs such a servant whose specialty is evil? " I would say purposed.

Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,

"Anything taken out of the context of the whole Logos can say anything. ....."

Where ia the post "out of context?"