Both of my parents have been asking about universal reconciliation, what I believe etc. They are certainly open and curious. But, for whatever reason Matthew 24 is a problem for him. I didn't want to discuss the details with him before I checked in here. I believe Matthew 24 is speaking about the judgment of 70 A.D. and everything within that chapter refers to that judgment.
Thoughts? Does this correlate with Revelations? I'm thinking not, because of the Great White Throne Judgment appears to be something else entirely.
Any help would be appreciated.
Also, while looking at these verses...if I'm reading this correctly...to take a preterist interpretation of these verses must you believe that Jesus has already come back? Also, what about some of the other prophecies that haven't been fulfilled yet?
and will cut him in two, 70 and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The cut him in two, which stage of hell does that take place in? Is that right after the rapists but before Hitler?
Sorry for the sarcasm, I know this is serious, and I'm praying that it goes well, and your parents awake to the good news of great joy for all people.
But whats the point of being cut in two if you're going to burn forever? The word there is dichotomy btw, kind of interesting. Maybe it has to do with separating the old man from the new?
Quote from: redhotmagma on August 11, 2011, 08:28:01 PM
and will cut him in two, 70 and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The cut him in two, which stage of hell does that take place in? Is that right after the rapists but before Hitler?
Sorry for the sarcasm, I know this is serious, and I'm praying that it goes well, and your parents awake to the good news of great joy for all people.
But whats the point of being cut in two if you're going to burn forever? The word there is dichotomy btw, kind of interesting. Maybe it has to do with separating the old man from the new?
It appears that this is symbolic language for God dealing harshly with wicked servants. I agree that it doesn't support ET but it doesn't answer my questions about Matthew 24.
sorry thats all I've got. What exactly is the problem of Matthew 24 for your dad?
Quote from: redhotmagma on August 11, 2011, 09:56:32 PM
sorry thats all I've got. What exactly is the problem of Matthew 24 for your dad?
I'm really not sure. For whatever reason he believes this chapter supports hell. But, when I was getting into it, I realized that I am not sure if Jesus is talking about 70 AD here or something else entirely. I wanted a discussion on that particular topic.
Hi Shawn,
(Matt. 24:3) the disciples ask Jesus when would these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world/age? Notice they ask when the end of the AGE would be? Personally I think Matt 24 was fulfilled in 70AD. I don't think all prophecy has been fulfilled though.
CHB
Let's have some fun!!!
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
There is so SOOOO much going on in this chapter . . .I would LOVE to set down with your parents and just take a couple hours walking them through it . . .but . . .here we is.
First off, keep in mind just how hard Jesus came down on the pharisees and religious leaders while he was "in" the temple. The terrible seven woes, the vipers, the serpents . . .their despise for him and his disdain for what they were doing with the law of life as they conformed people with the fear of death with it. The disciples were right there, hearing the passion of righteous judment come from his lips and they were still cringing at the fact that he just unloaded on the most prestigious of men. So . . .the idea that they were pointing out the wonderful works of men outside the temple isn't a coincidence. It's like you just got a serious chewing out from your Dad and then your mom steps in and tries to soften up the harshness of what your Dad just said. That's really what the disciples were doing. They were trying to show Jesus all the great efforts the religious leaders put into these great monuments of the religion. Jesus would have none of it because what the disciples were missing was, Jesus was everything these religious traditions symbolized. and the fact that he's here now in the flesh meant that there was no longer going to be a need for the symbolization. But because the religious were embracing the symbol instead of the substance, rather than being transformed into celebration, they were going to be disassembled in violence. It was their choice.
The first thing this chapter is showing is . . .Jesus is turning his back on the religious system. Literally, Jesus has left the building. This sets the stage for the rest of the entire chapter, it's not about the end of the earth, it's about the end of the age of the Old Covenant system. Everything from that point on is specifically about the destruction of not only the temple, but also of the entire religious establishment. We ain't in Kansas anymore!! The renting of the veil was going to be just the beginning of what was still to come to them.
Not one stone will be left on top of the other . . .I'm not even going to begin going into the spiritual implications of that because that's not what you asked for. What I will tell you is, it is most assuredly connected to Revelation. Don't let the great white throne judgment lead you away from everything else that is symbolically aligned with what they were going to literally experience. That's the one thing that still gits my griddle . . .all the years I've spent in church, not one time was there ever mentioned of the atrocities that took place in A.D. 70. People point their finger to what Hitler did with the Jews . . .millions of them, they say he tortured and murdered. Well, according to Josephus . . .if you haven't, I'd recomend you read up on the book of Martyrs . . .that's the name of it . . ."The Book of Martyrs". In it you'll find just how real and torturous those days were . . .the torturing of Christians wasn't by any means just a one time event, but A.D. 70 marks the year when the old religious system was removed.
Those buildings Jesus was pointing to that day were literally torn down brick by brick not because a bomb hit them, but because there was said to be gold lining in between them and the Roman's tore them down for the gold.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Now think about this for a minute. What the church wants you to believe is . . .Jesus just foretold of a great destruction literally to those buildings, the disciples were seriously concerned so they ask him "when" . . .the diagnose is fatal . . .it's no longer a matter of "if", but "when". They were beginning to realize the magnitude of why Jesus was here and just how deeply the effects of his life would reach. So Jesus, in all the ominous tension that had built up among them by then, chose to jump ahead to 2000 years later and begin talking about the end of the earth as "we" know it . ...
Really?
I think if you just slow this whole thing down . . .you say they're somewhat open to hearing you . . .first thing is, lay down the preconceived ideas of what others have "taught" them. God is about to personally show them something all together different.
Everything in Matthew 24, in Daniie's dream with the book he was told to seal up and . . .in Revelation as well . . .this was a huge deal. This was pertaining to the identity of an entire nation!! It was going to get ugly . . .it was on their minds for the next 40 years through all of their ministries . . .when John received the Revelation at the place of his killing (Patmos), it was a generation later and the time had come for what Jesus prepared them with in Matthew 24 to litterally unfold . . .
I would love to keep going through this chapter . . .but I'm out of time.
The bottom line is . . .this has EVERYTHING to do with the destruction of the old religious system. It has NOTHING to do with our generation or our earth being destroyed . . .it has nothing to do with US at all. It's not a revelation of the end of the earth as we know it . . .or of the destruction of men or of the salvation of saints. It's a revelation of Jesus Christ, the very one the entire old system was patterned after. So it's no wonder when Jesus did reveal his nature to John, that it was about the removal of the old system and the establishing of the celebrative new lineage.
Nathan this is blowing my mind right now. I have never read anything like it. Anytime you get more time...please continue.
But we haven't seen the end of the age yet.
"All right," Jesus replied. "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
--John 2:19
It is a double prophecy. It began in 33ad at the cross. But, the old system, Babylon, is still with us. It is making its last play for world dominance as we speak.
I know that it doesn't necessarily directly allude to Matthew 24:1-35, but there is a good document from Dr. Bob Wilson about Jesus' usage of 'Gehenna' here: http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1269, which can be downloaded from his first post.
I like Nathan's enthusiasm! :thumbsup:
I like Nathan's enthusiasm too, BUT...
Quote from: Nathan on August 12, 2011, 02:54:20 AM
when John received the Revelation at the place of his killing
How do you know John was killed on Patmos?
Quote from: Confident UR Christian on August 12, 2011, 04:02:55 AM
I know that it doesn't necessarily directly allude to Matthew 24:1-35, but there is a good document from Dr. Bob Wilson about Jesus' usage of 'Gehenna' here: http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1269, which can be downloaded from his first post.
I like Nathan's enthusiasm! :thumbsup:
Much good stuff to glean from that. Thanks for the link.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 04:23:35 AM
I like Nathan's enthusiasm too, BUT...
Quote from: Nathan on August 12, 2011, 02:54:20 AM
when John received the Revelation at the place of his killing
John died of old age in Ephesus (Turkey). I'm just guessing Nathan knows that and is speaking about something spiritual :winkgrin:
How do you know John was killed on Patmos?
I was going on an assumption that most people knew the definition of "Patmos". It literally means "place of my killing". Nothing is as it seems guys. That's why I try not to get too deep into debates on surface issues . . .the natural stories are merely gateways leading into spiritual truths. Several instances Scripture uses the phrast "things above the earth, on the earth and under the earth . . .I believe it's spiritual speaking to dimensional truths. The literal story laying on the surface of the earth, being the "above the earth" the moral value is "in" the story being "on" the earth and the spiritual truth beneath the story would then be that which is "under" the earth. Before John could even receive a revelation of Jesus, he first had to come to . . .the place of his killing .. as do we all.
Quote from: Molly on August 12, 2011, 03:41:55 AM
But we haven't seen the end of the age yet.
"All right," Jesus replied. "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
--John 2:19
It is a double prophecy. It began in 33ad at the cross. But, the old system, Babylon, is still with us. It is making its last play for world dominance as we speak.
Um . . .I kinda see it that way, kinda not . . .I've heard this terminology before, I used to use it but really, there's no place in Scripture that supports the idea of "double prophecies". The prophecies literally given were to unfold LITERALLY UPON THOSE TO WHOM THEY WERE SENT TO . . . In this case, Jesus was referring to his body as the temple . . .now . . .having said that I do think there are multiple DIMENSIONS to that declaration of being raised up in three days. And perhaps it's just the terminology that's our only difference here. I don't see prophecies repeating themselves naturally but I do see them having dimensional applications.
They "thought" he was talking literally about brick and mortar buildings . . .as I mentioned before, we now know that he was refering to his literal body of flesh as the temple being raised up in a literal three days. But I also see "we" to are temples as individuals, but also we are living stones assembled together to bond together creating one massive, living, breathing corporate temple. And in "that" sense, I see that in a prophetical three days . . .or . . a day is a thousand years . .principle, that two days have passed and "we" are alive at the dawning of that third day when the resurrection occurs and as such, the atmosphere . . .the invisible, spiritual atmosphere around us has changed from one of a religious, politically correct and "propper" church system that was seated in laboring minds to one that is being resurrected from that labor and being realigned and repositioned into an identity of REST in the FINISHED works.
Quote from: Nathan on August 12, 2011, 03:26:17 PM
I was going on an assumption that most people knew the definition of "Patmos". It literally means "place of my killing". Nothing is as it seems guys. That's why I try not to get too deep into debates on surface issues . . .the natural stories are merely gateways leading into spiritual truths. Several instances Scripture uses the phrast "things above the earth, on the earth and under the earth . . .I believe it's spiritual speaking to dimensional truths. The literal story laying on the surface of the earth, being the "above the earth" the moral value is "in" the story being "on" the earth and the spiritual truth beneath the story would then be that which is "under" the earth. Before John could even receive a revelation of Jesus, he first had to come to . . .the place of his killing .. as do we all.
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Yes, he was as dead in the very first chapter yet went on to finish the Revelation.
Stating that John physically died on Patmos is an assumption.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Yes, he was as dead in the very first chapter yet went on to finish the Revelation.
Stating the John physically died on Patmos is an assumption.
Where are you getting that? Re-read what Nathan wrote before you decide to nit pick posts.
(the quotes weren't showing up right shawn, so I edited to make it clearer - james)
No, I wasn't stating that John physically died on Patmos . .. I was saying John received the revelation from Jesus AT THE PLACE OF HIS KILLING. I'm pretty sure when he did die physically, it wasn't there, Patmos is a prison on an island . . .like Alkatraz . . .
Play time again . . .only got a few minutes though . . .
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
This was happening on a regular basis, there are even accounts in Scripture where men claimed to be sent by God, if I'm not mistaken, one of those times were either when Paul was in prison or Peter . . .I think it may have been Peter. They wanted to kill him but one religious leader who did see truth in what the disciples were preaching advised him . . .let him go, if he's a fake, it'll be just like . . .and he said some guy's name but I don't remember what it was. But the guy ended up getting himself killed. But he went on to say, if the things Peter is saying are true and you go and kill him, you don't want that kind of blood on your hands . .but there were people popping up all over the place claiming they were the Christ . . .that's actually one of the major factors in why the canon was formed in the first place. Too many guys were out there writing books and claiming their message was the Christ message when most of them were frauds.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Again, all of this was transpiring all around them leading up to AD 70 and when it actually did happen, it wasn't because an outside nation wanted over run Israel, it was because the religious "in" Israel turned on each other and the Roman's were originally trying to get control of the civil fighing.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
I know people always point to the weather in their back yards and use this Scripture as evidence of what's coming . . as in the end of the world, but there's just no way this is about the condition of the earth 2,000 years after the fact.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And here's a really good sign that this is NOT pertaining to our generation. Jesus is talking to THEM directly. If he were referring to generations to come, he would say "this is not for you, live in peace for the things I've described will come to pass at a later time . . .God told that to Daniel . . .but not here. Here he didn't say nations are going to hate "us" or nations are now hating Israel so that must mean now . . .he's talking TO THEM. Same as when the angels proclaimed at the ascension . . .Just as YOU saw him go, YOU will see him return . . .it's not about us . . its a message TO THEM.
Hi Nathan,
Enjoyed what you said here and I agree. A lot of other things in the Bible are just like this but most of religions of the world try to apply it to themselves. I do think that not all things have happened yet but most of it has.
CHB
I have 8 minutes . . .
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
If you think about this, Jesus came and established a completely different message than what they were raised in. Many embraced, many didn't. So you gotta know that once he was no longer physically there, those that didn't accept him had to have been closing in on those that did . . .I mean, even "during" Jesus time here, he had the biggest fan that ever lived in John the Baptist and even HE got to the point where he lost his focus and began questioning who Jesus was. If John the baptist did, then ya gotta know pretty much everyone else would have been getting a little shaky in their faith after a time as well. At that time, brothers were turning in their own Fathers and visa versa . .. and many were seeing their own family members getting yanked out of their homes and slaughtered in front of their houses with their families looking on. All in the name of religion.
And then the false prophets came in and started effectively leading even more people away. Ever read Galatians? Paul immediately goes into a rebuke against them for leaving law for life, only to return to law again because someone deceived them. This is another one that the church uses over and over again whenever they hear a message that contradicts their own. They immediately point their finger and use the false prophet/teacher card . . .as if the church NEVER adopted false teachings at IT'S CONCEPTION and now that truth is really being pronounced, they've been in the false side of things for so long, they don't even recognize the truth when it punches them right between the ears.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come
In the book of Acts, there is a passage that actually states the gospel had reached the ends of the earth . . . people today are still misinterpreting this and thinking it means that the end of this earth will come once men finally hit that one last lost tribe in Africa . . . Puh-leeze . .. I'd rant more on that buy my 8 minutes were up 2 minutes ago.
Nathan
Quote10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come
Why does this all sound so familiar? lol Could it be we have been in the last days, all three of them, since Jesus came to earth in the flesh? And, these things are just playing themselves out, one after another, for each generation until the end?
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath
in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1
Quote from: Nathan on August 12, 2011, 08:02:08 PM
. . . people today are still misinterpreting this and thinking it means that the end of this earth will come once men finally hit that one last lost tribe in Africa . . . Puh-leeze . ..
Apparently, that lost tribe was found 2000 years ago:
Romans 1:20;
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen,
being understood from what has been made,
so that men are without excuse
!
Quote from: shawn on August 12, 2011, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Yes, he was as dead in the very first chapter yet went on to finish the Revelation.
Stating the John physically died on Patmos is an assumption.
Where are you getting that? Re-read what Nathan wrote before you decide to nit pick posts.
(the quotes weren't showing up right shawn, so I edited to make it clearer - james)
I must agree with Beloved on the Patmos assumption thing. I could only find in Thayer Patmos means "my killing," not "place of my killing."
Otherwise I find Nathans post interesting :bigGrin:
Quote from: shawn on August 12, 2011, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Yes, he was as dead in the very first chapter yet went on to finish the Revelation.
Stating the John physically died on Patmos is an assumption.
Where are you getting that? Re-read what Nathan wrote before you decide to nit pick posts.
(the quotes weren't showing up right shawn, so I edited to make it clearer - james)
Nitpick is one word.
... just sayin'.
Whether it's "place of my" or just "my killing" it doesn't change the spiritual message liying beneath the natural story. Either way, before we can reign in Christ and "see" with eyes and "hear" with ears, a death in us must first occur.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Once again, this is not projecting 2,000 years into the future. If you just take a step back and look at the bigger picture here. The mentality with this and the church today is, what was spoken was really irrelevant to those people then, what it "really" was about, was how ugly it is in our day. I've been hearing sermons on today's ugliness for 30 years now. Sure would be nice to hear preachers get excited about celebrating the freedom of Christ today rather than use current status quo as a weapon to inflict shame, guilt and fear . . .and damned if ya don't kind of preachin. The message was never about eternal hell or even God being disgusted with what he created. The whole message was about reconciliation. What happened with A.D. 70 was a cleansing, not a vengance. It's all in the perspective though. The Egyptians experienced 10 plagues whereas Israel experienced 10 keys to freedom. Just depend on what side of the fence you're on.
But if you keep ALL of what's in this chapter in context, it's all pertaining to the religiousness of men . . .keep in mind, Jesus just rebuked the snot out of the relious leaders. He just left the building and now he's telling them what happens once his presence is removed from the structure . . .it implodes. And again, that's what happened in A.D. 70. Israel imploded on itself because it embraced something that was supposed to be temporary and the system was removed, never to recover and I'll go so far to say that regardless of how many people out there believe and are anticipating the day when the temple will be rebuilt and the sacrifices start up again . . . just like everything else, they are waiting for something that's not going to happen. The temple is NOT going to be rebuilt and the sacrifices are NOT going to return either. For them to come back would be a sacrilidge against everything Jesus did. he was the ULTIMATE sacrifice. God is the one that removed the system, if God removed it, I guarantee you, no man is going to be able to put it back.
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
And here is where the church goes totally off the track . . .the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place is not speaking of a literal brick and mortar building anymore than Jesus was talking about raising up a literal building in three days . . ."you" are the temple of the Holy Ghost and in all of us there is an abomination of desolation every time when we give the throne of our nature over to our minds to be governed and ruled by rather than our spirit. "that's" why there's an insertion here about letting the reader understand. he's telling you that things just went dimensional and natural minds can't follow where this just went.
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
When you keep all of this "in" the context, it all just fits together like a tapestry. It's all about the day when Israel as a nation comes crashing down. It's an ugly day . . .it took them 4000 years of history to make them the great nation and idenitified as God's chosen nation and this relgious system was the center piece of all of it . . .problem was . . .God is the true center piece and by removing him from the throne and replacing it with the religious system is . . .an abomination of desolation. So many people point to v 21 and claim things have been worse than what they experienced that day . . .but again, they just don't get it . . .this was about the ability to have God manifest his presence through their worship . .and that was removed from them that day because they rejected the substance and chose the symbolism. The lights just went out in Georgia.
so then the 'wicked servan/ offspring of viperst' that beat,killed the 'son' to seize the vineyard, lost his position of oversite in the temple of God
was 'thrown out" and assigned a position with hypocrites
same in our day with Babylon,because of the way she treated you....
Quote22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
When you keep all of this "in" the context, it all just fits together like a tapestry. It's all about the day when Israel as a nation comes crashing down. It's an ugly day . . .it took them 4000 ars of history to make them the great nation and idenitified as God's chosen nation and this relgious system was the center piece of all of it . . .problem was . . .God is the true center piece and by removing him from the throne and replacing it with the religious system is . . .an abomination of desolation.
I agree with you that what happened with the Levite priesthood and the Temple is definitely and supernaturally from God. No other way this could have happened. A religion that had hung on for thousands of years was suddenly 'obsolete and fading away.'
But, Israel was never a 'great nation.' They were a minor player in the Roman Empire in those days. Rome was the great nation of the time and Rome was not in jeopardy. And what about this strange statement:
ye22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
There was never a question in those days of no flesh being saved. The Roman Empire was still thriving after the fall of Jerusalem.
But, today...there is a real question. We are being rained upon by radiation from the skies which is entering our food supply by land and by sea. Three nuclear plants are in various stages of meltdown. And, more. Today one could see where this scripture might soon apply.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 09:44:29 PM
Quote from: shawn on August 12, 2011, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Yes, he was as dead in the very first chapter yet went on to finish the Revelation.
Stating the John physically died on Patmos is an assumption.
Where are you getting that? Re-read what Nathan wrote before you decide to nit pick posts.
(the quotes weren't showing up right shawn, so I edited to make it clearer - james)
Nitpick is one word.
... just sayin'.
Clever...certainly adds to the depth of conversation.
What?
You sore?
You struck first, didn'tcha Shawn?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 11:12:50 PM
What?
You sore?
You struck first, didn'tcha Shawn?
Sore? No. Struck first? See I believe that to be the issue with some posters. This shouldn't be about striking, nitpicking, arguing or anything that doesn't build up other believers. Much too often I see a believer just lay down some earth shattering truth only to have individuals come along and want to tear it down.
Terrific additions Nathan. This is specifically the kind of discussion I was looking for on this chapter. Our carnal minds are the abomination that causes desolation...game changer.
wow Shawn......'earth shattering truth" made me think of Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron :thumbsup:
Quote from: sheila on August 13, 2011, 12:13:32 AM
wow Shawn......'earth shattering truth" made me think of Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron :thumbsup:
:cloud9:
Quote from: shawn on August 12, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 12, 2011, 11:12:50 PM
What?
You sore?
You struck first, didn'tcha Shawn?
Sore? No. Struck first? See I believe that to be the issue with some posters. This shouldn't be about striking, nitpicking, arguing or anything that doesn't build up other believers. Much too often I see a believer just lay down some earth shattering truth only to have individuals come along and want to tear it down.
Struck first?
Yes!
You did by accusing me of nit-picking Nathans post.
He made an unfounded statement.
I replied, that's all that happened.
Romans 8:6;
For to be carnally minded is death;
but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Yes, the Scriptures are earth-shattering.
Quote from: shawn on August 12, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
See I believe that to be the issue with some posters.
Much too often I see a believer just lay down some earth shattering truth only to have individuals come along and want to tear it down.
Another strike at me, Shawn!
It was not my intention to "tear down" Nathan's post.
If one of the facts is questionable, there is no harm in bringing it to light.
If Shawn wishes to respond, after that can we get back on topic please?
Good posts, Nathan.
Quote from: jabcat on August 13, 2011, 12:57:26 AM
If Shawn wishes to respond, after that can we get back on topic please?
Good posts, Nathan.
No need to respond. I would rather read and respond to the subject at hand.
The crazy thing here is . .. I never said Patmos was the place that John died and that was the nitpick . . . it was understood that I said he did . . .so . . .the argument going on out there is based on a misunderstanding in the first place . . .ain't that just like how our minds always work?? There reallly is just a bit more I wanted to throw out to you guys while I still have the stage on this if you don't mind.
Wow . . .I thought I'd be able to cover the whole chapter . . .but jeeze . . .this is a long friggin' chapter!! But I digress . . .
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
There was A LOT of these warnings coming forth to the readers. There would be A LOT of fakes coming out of the woodwork and Jesus was trying to ingrain in them what truth sounded like so that when the fakes came, the hearer could discern the difference between the sound of truth and the noise of reasoning. Take a look around you at all the churches and ask yiourself this question . . .which are producing sound, which are producing noise? How can one tell the difference? Those who reverberate the sound of truth manifest with messages of freedom, love, liberation, easy yokes . . those with religious noise produce messages of warning, alarms, reservations, caution . . .those in bondage may be able to talk about freedom, but they can't produce it. The water in them is a stagnant pond as opposed to a flowing river.
What I'm trying to say is, church as we've known it has been duped. The fakes are the ones running the business of religious hatcheries rather than intimate birthing rooms. God is calling us back to the birhing room. We must be born again . . .again in order to "see" the kingdom of God. How many of us know people that are church chasers, running down the next revival, the best worship, the most popular teachers and preachers? Oh . . .God is moving over there, lets go to that church!! He's not in the desert, he's not in some secret club or society . . .the kingdom of heaven does not come by observation, it is IN YOU. You want to see the kingdom? Look "inward".
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
When God shows up . . .the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea . . .it's not here or there . . .when he shows up, it'll be everywhere, all at once. Now we get to the verse I love to play with.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
There are so many translations that will try to say the accurate rendition here is not eagles, but it's vultures . . .sorry . .. I disagree. In fact, I looked this up in strongs and it ticked me off. Because the definition went something like . .. "it appears to be saying eagles but we all know eagles don't eat dead flesh so this has to mean vultures instead . . . To switch it to a vulture just because it doesn't "make sense" is an atrocity!
First off, what is the reason for Jesus saying this? he's answering the "where" question. Where will this take place? Where the eagles gather together. Where what will take place? That's what this chapter has been dealing with from the beginning. The "what" is the removal of the old covenant system. Where will it happen? where eagles gather together? Are we still talking about the same thing here? What does eagles have to do with where this happens? The real question is . . .WHO are the eagles? Let Scripture intrepret Scripture . . .Isaiah 40 . . .those that wait upon the Lord, shall renew their strength, they shall mount up with wings as . . .eagles.
Who are the eagles? Those that wait upon the Lord. What's the connection? This whole time frame is pertaining to the removal of the old system to make way, oh boy . . .gonna make a jump here so hang on a sec . . .but in Revelation it talks about the Euphrates river drying up . . .Euphrate's means "fruitfulness" the river dries up in "preparation for the kings of the east." Church taught me to believe this is talking about China accumulating a million soldiers to march in on Jerusalem and make war . . .PUH-LEEEZE . . this is talking about the fruitfulness of carnal minds, of religious mindsets, they are going to dry up in preparation for the kings . . .Revelation also says "WE" are kings AND priests. That was actually against the law. You couldn't be a king "and" a priest. Anyeay, these just aren't any kings, these guys are kings of the "east". East speaks of resurrection . .the rising of the son. It's saying religion will dry up and give way to sons of God who have a message of resurrection life on their tongues rather than control and intimidation.
The eagles are the true believers . . .Jerusalem is where the church was born out of the side of Jesus, blood and water, then manifested later in the upper room . . .Jerusalem is where the eagles gathered together because "that's" where the carcass was . . .what was the carcass? Did Jesus not say we must eat his flesh and drink his blood? he is the carcass that draws the eagles together and that is "where" these things shall be.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Whenever you say "tribulation" to a religious person, their eyes roll back into their heads and they put on a face of fright and immediately revert to the destruction of the world as we know it. And everything that carries with it as well actually . . .lots of doom and gloom . . .But again, this is not literal in the sense that the stars are literally going to fall from the sky. But prophetically, Israel represents the sun, moon and stars by way of Joseph, the kid with a super colorful coat his Dad made him . .he had the dream where he saw the sun and moon bow down to him along with twelve stars . . .it was depicting his family, but it was also the infrastructure of Israel's heritage. When the old covenant was removed, Israel went dark. She lost her sense of identity.
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
There's so much in this chapter . . .but I'm almost out of time so this will be it for today . . . I hope you guys are having as much fun reading this as I am in sharing it . . .there's a charge being released here . . .anyway . . .I will say this is a HUGE verse, but it's not what we've been taught to think it means.
This verse is revealing the reason "why" these things shall be. There was lots of dark tension settling in over the first part . . .which happens a lot when you're describing hell for someone . .Jesus was explaining the hell they were about to encounter and at the lowest point, Israel's lights went out . . .'THEN' . . .that's a word implying a shift in the storyline.
This is going to happen where the eagles gather together . . .where the righteous who know the sound of my voice within them gather around "me" . ."and then" . . .a sign shall APPEAR unto them the tribes of my earth will mourn . . .tribes of who? Tribes of what? the earth . . .anything that is connected to earth is not godly, spiritual or heavenly . .it's carnal. Those with carnal minds will mourn for Israel being wiped out . . but . . .to the eagles . . .they will see the Son of man coming with the clouds of heaven . . .in other words . . .they're eyes are now opened and where natural people see death and destruction, the eagles see the son of man surrounded in witnesses (Hebrews 12:1) proclaiming his glory
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Hmmm . . .another "gathering". Still thnk this has to do with the end of the earth as we know it? The removal of the old covenant system HAD to happen because those in the old covenant could not see the true nature of Jesus. But those who transitioned from old to new were the ones in the clouds with him which is where eagles soar, in the jetstreams of truth, of life and of freedom.
Quote from: Nathan on August 13, 2011, 02:12:53 AM
The crazy thing here is . .. I never said Patmos was the place that John died and that was the nitpick . . .
Now wait a cotton-pickin' minute Brother Nathan.
Y'aint leaving me left holding the bag; read your quote below:
Quote from: Nathan on August 12, 2011, 02:54:20 AM
. . .when John received the Revelation at the place of his killing (Patmos),
That statement, as written, informs the reader that John died there.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 13, 2011, 02:23:35 AM
Quote from: Nathan on August 13, 2011, 02:12:53 AM
The crazy thing here is . .. I never said Patmos was the place that John died and that was the nitpick . . .
Now wait a cotton-pickin' minute Brother Nathan.
Y'aint leaving me left holding the bag; read your quote below:
Quote from: Nathan on August 12, 2011, 02:54:20 AM
. . .when John received the Revelation at the place of his killing (Patmos),
That statement, as written, informs the reader that John died there.
Not to keep it going but that is what was printed. Im figuring that Bro. Nathan was assuming and he may be correct. Peace
He clarified in this post http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/arguments_against_universal_salvation/matthew_24135_9897.msg126696.html#msg126696
that the assumption he was under, was that most knew the meaning of Patmos as being "the place of his killing".
I believe he was attaching symbolic and spiritual meaning.
His last post was on topic and good for edification.
I loved the understanding about the eagles....King of Babylon had to grow hair like eagles feathers..and be wetted with dew of heaven
Ezekiel 10;14 Each of the cherubim had four faces..one was an eagle :grin: synomonous with Michael...the Prince of your people...
should of known Rev 8;13 and 12;14 a third of the day was without light[8 hours sleeping/nite/all virgins slept] should of known
His body was not dead..but asleep!...the woman was given the two wings of a great eagle..so that she might fly to 'THE PLACE PREPARED FOR HER
Michael means 'who is like GOD"?
Friend I take exception. For me, without accepting that it is speaking of eagles and not vultures, what you say I dont think is sound. Should they be vultures, how then do we understand this part of the parable? Its only an atrocity if it is not vultures.
"There are so many translations that will try to say the accurate rendition here is not eagles, but it's vultures . . .sorry . .. I disagree. In fact, I looked this up in strongs and it ticked me off. Because the definition went something like . .. "it appears to be saying eagles but we all know eagles don't eat dead flesh so this has to mean vultures instead . . . To switch it to a vulture just because it doesn't "make sense" is an atrocity!
OT
BDB Definition:
1) eagle, vulture, griffon-vulture
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root meaning to lacerate
NT
Thayer Definition:
1) an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may to a vulture that resembles an eagle
2) an eagle as a standard (Roman Milita
read about two eagles and a vine the Lord planted Ezekiel 17;7 But there was another great eagle with powerful wings and full plumage...
the vine now sent out it's roots toward him....
Ezekiel 17;22 This what the Sovereign Lord says...I will take the shoot from the very top of a cedar and plant it on a high and lofty mountain
On the mountain heights of Israel I will plant it. All the trees of the feild will know that I the Lord bring down the tall tree,and make the low
tree grow tall.I dry up the green tree and make the dry tree flourish
Quote from: Nathan on August 13, 2011, 02:12:53 AMI never said Patmos was the place that John died and that was the nitpick . . .
Some info that may be relevant:
Patmos means "my killing"
The Roman historian Tertullian recorded the event of John's exection. John was cast in a pot of boiling oil, a common execution method at that time. But John didn't die. He just kept preaching in that pot.
After that failed execution the Romans exiled him to their prison island to work in the mines. That island was Patmos.
Working conditions were not the best as you can imagine. Most died on that island. John was released. (when a new emperor took office?)
I think that's INCREDIBLE information! Things I didn't know. Sounds like John was miraculously very much alive, "though he were dead"!
All that was no accident. God still had an as-yet-to-be-completed mission for him. That's a faith-builder. :angelharp:
Quote from: Nathan on August 13, 2011, 02:12:53 AM
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
There are so many translations that will try to say the accurate rendition here is not eagles, but it's vultures . . .sorry . .. I disagree. In fact, I looked this up in strongs and it ticked me off. Because the definition went something like . .. "it appears to be saying eagles but we all know eagles don't eat dead flesh so this has to mean vultures instead . . . To switch it to a vulture just because it doesn't "make sense" is an atrocity!
Secular warning. Eagle also refers to a Roman legion. Their banner. And in a way where they appear is death/carcasses.
Read THIS (http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/eagles.htm) on the eagles. Hoax or not? Dunno....
An other view about shepherds feeding on their flock (http://secrettemple.blogspot.com/2005/12/carcass-and-eagle.html)
Another view is that believers are eagles and believers are were the carcas is. At the cross of the dead Jesus.
Interesting conversations you guys are having on this . . .Micah, the reason it's important to see them as eagles and not vultures is because though the carnal part of us may have vulture characteristics, our spirit is what soars in the upper stratosphere of God . . .and these things I'm sharing are not to solidify facts, that's not my intention. But what I "am" trying to do is rather than just give a general comment about what I "think" Matthew 24, or any other passage for that matter, is saying, I'm sharing what I "see". Not just what I "know" and yes, there's a difference. Many times things emerge that I know God is revealing something with them but they may not immediately match up with were I am at that moment . . .but that doesn't mean a thing. God doesn't give us pieces of hi s glory to match up with where we already are, he gives us pieces of his nature that we've never been before, but when we "do" enter into those rooms, the pieces will then fall into place. And I think that might be part of Shawn's frustration in how others are in that if you dissect it before it takes root, it kind of removes the effectiveness of it leading into deeper truths.
Ya'll know about the passage about casting your pearls before the swine, right? Spiritually speaking, the pearl is something that God inserted in our nature, but it wasn't originally a pearl, but "like" a pearl, it first was an irritant, like a grain of sand in an oyster. But God did something unique with the oysters, he put in them a mechanism that responds to the irritant. The oyster releases chemicals that coat the grain of sand so that the tiny grain of sand doesn't infect the oyster. Then, another layer, then another layer and over time, the irritant becomes a part of the oyster not to mention it's no longer a threat to the oyster's existance. And "then" that tiny grain of sand, through the process of time, transforms from an irritant "becomes" a precious gem of great value. And that's what these things I'm sharing are to me, they are of great value because like God does in all of us, what I've been writing is not my conclusion after gathering as many facts through word denfinitions and commentaries of orthers, but what I'm writing now, is the result of a process that God has personally led me through.
The problem comes when after all the time and effort that was put into the making of the pearl, if it gets exposed to those who don't recognize it's value, they treat it like common dirt and instead of cherishing it, they trample on it. That's really the reason why I left the boards for a while a couple months ago .. . there is always a risk when you write things that are a part of you that's mixed in with things that are merely out there for the taking, or picking . .or splitting . . .dissecting . . what have you, that your precious gift God gave you gets mixed in with "information" and it is at great risk to be discredited and cast aside.
I think that may be why it's so important for us to live in the tree of life rather than knowledge. Because knowledge will always take something and want to "organize" it according to where each mindset is coming from so that it can "grasp" the whole of the subject. But pearls don't work the same way as accumulated facts. Pearls carry the identity of their hosts. You dissect the pearl, you affect it's host.
All I can say here is, and I "am" speaking for myself, but I know every one of us has shared a pearl where others didn't recognize it as such and it got roughed up. But all I can ask is, rather than keep your pearl to yourself so that swine don't trample it, I would rather ask that we take care not to "become" the swine to the pearls of another.
Peninah (her name means: pearl) was Hannah's (she is gracious) irritant, for the Bible says Peninah provoked her.
Peninah irritated Hannah so that she was in bitterness of soul. Bitterness of soul is a sharp and resentful irritation.
Often, God will allow a Peninah to enter into the life of a Hannah to produce spiritual nacre until the irritation is turned into something of great value.
WATCH THE PEARL GROW:
This sharp and resentful irritation pierces deep inside leaving no other choice but change.
What covers the irritation, though, is of utmost importance, for if is not Christ it yet another black pearl of the carnal mind.
And Nathan, that's why I said something. There are quite a few of us here who truly appreciate what you add to this community. I see truth in what you write. But, I have noticed a group of posters who have chosen to give you a hard time at every turn. There comes a time, when standing on the sideline is no longer the right thing to do. My hope is that we can all share without fear of being belittled or attacked. I'm hoping this community is about iron sharpening iron rather than airing personal grievances. There might be those who do not appreciate what you are writing, but I think many of us see great value in it. Please continue.
Amen, continue in truth.
Origin: Gaelic
Meaning: God is gracious
Shawn!
Your name is the Gaelic equivalent of Hannah.
Praise God.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 13, 2011, 06:03:00 PM
Amen, continue in truth.
Origin: Gaelic
Meaning: God is gracious
Shawn!
Your name is the Gaelic equivalent of Hannah.
Praise God.
I did not know that. Thanks for sharing.
lest we forget..that Eli presumed Hannah was drunk..in the house of the Lord....but she was pouring out her soul to the Lord.....
and Eli was informed there would not be an old man man is his family line,for God would cut short his strength...and God informed him
'I will raise up for myself a faithful preists who will do what is in my heart and mind,I will firmly establish his house and he will minister
before my annointed one always
Eli didn't understand what was going on with Hannah. He watched her speak but didn't hear the words.
He was complacent with the women that his sons had corrupted and how they acted in a certain way.
After she told him, then! he realized she had a DESIRE and he told her to go and for the Lord to grant her petition.
After she returned home she conceived and gave birth to Samuel, which means "Asked of God".
Never again after she gives birth does Peninah provoke her again, WHY? Because a change had come.
Old thing are passed away and behold all things have become new.
little bit of nepotism?
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 13, 2011, 08:03:12 AM
Another view is that believers are eagles and believers are were the carcas is. At the cross of the dead Jesus.
Another view is that believers are eagles and the carcass is SELF.
I do plan on continuing the Matthew 24 for thing . . .that "is" the title of the thread so I guess that should be the "main" attempt in discussion . . .however . . .this pearl thing has struck yet another chord. Beloved Servant is actually aiming in the direction I am heading as well. Since I left a bit ago, the pearl thing took another dimension in that God told Abraham that his decendants would be as numerous as the sands of the sea . . .the two most common . .actually, I'd have to say three. The three most common places to find sand are at the water's edge, be it sea or ocean. In rivers and streams, and in desserts.
For me, water is a separate dimension of life on earth. It's a strange place. We "can" go in it, but we can't breathe in it. There numberous types of creatures that are extremely agile in water, but not on land. Yet, as much as they depend on the waters for their sustenance, land is where they "reside". And there are aquatic animals that depend on our air for life, but they are restricted to the realm of the water. I use the term "restricted" loosely in that the ration of water to land is 3 to 1. But the point is, that which is aquatic can not, for the most part, "live" in both aquatic and on dry land at the same time. There is a mystic piece in Revelation where the Lord has one foot in the sea and another on the land as he makes a decree . . .for me, one symbolizes the spirit, the other symbolizes the flesh. And I believe one of the unexplainable things Jesus does with us is, he enables us to become one with both. And I think when all things come to an end, there will be a complete merging of land and sea, of spirit and flesh. But I've just wandered off from where I was heading . . .
The sand is both in the water and out, it's like the bridge between one realm and the other. But again, the makings of a pearl starts with an irritant . . .how often, I wonder are we irritants of God? Are we not all but grains of sand? But he covers us with his grace. Layer upon layer, upon layer . . .and over the process of time, we become transformed from irritants to precious gems. Isn't New Jerusalem establishes within gates of "pearl"?
I believe that's the call of all of us, that we become gates, but only those who are pearls can be gates . . .hmmm . . .that'll preach to! That's one of the things Jesus had against the religious leaders. He said they stood at the door of truth, they wouldn't go in, but they wouldn't let anyone else in either. Did you know man has figured out a way to make pearls of his own? I mean besides the really fake ones . . .they actually cultivate their own from oysters . . . they take God's order and manipulate it for their own causes. They take oysters, tie them on strings, insert a grain of sand in them and then just suspend them in the water they're indigenous to. And, they say you can tell the difference because the cultivated ones don't have the same quality of depth in the coloration of the natural ones . .and . . they're just a shade grayer. Don't quote me on that, but you get the idea of what I'm trying to say. Mixing natural reasoning with spiritual truth is the same thing as that.
But when we yield to the process of a true pearl, we are positioned as gates that lead into heavenly places. People enter into NEW Jerusalem experiences as they encounter us. But we all started out as an irritant at one time or another . . .perhaps even now we're manifesting the irritant more than the layers of grace that we're embedding in. But that's not for me to decide or judge, it's just something for all of us to apply to ourselves I guess.
Anway . . .got a couple minutes here so I'll see what we get from it. Where'd we leave off?
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I know I left off with this, but there's a couple other things I'd like to touch on. One . .notice "who" it is that's doing the gathering. We've been taught that "we" are the ones doing the harvesting and the gathering. But several places in Scripture, including this one, Jesus explicitly states it's not us, it's the messengers . . .are "we" not messengers ourselves? Yup . . .but . . .it's not about the one carrying the message. Without a message, we wouldn't have an identity at all because a messenger is one who carries the message. But the messenger isn't the one that receives the credit of the message, they're just carrying it. So . . .for me, it's not the messengers that do the gathering, it's the message that is doing the gathering.
When Jesus stated the fields are white and ready for harvest . . .he didn't say spread my gospel so more people can harvest, he said pray that God would send more workers, why? Think about it . . .if it was to be about the end of the earth as we know it . . .why did Jesus say the fields were already white, ready for the harvest "then"? Let's look at John 4 for a sec.
34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
35Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
First thing that jumps out at me here is the call to "lift up your eyes". It's another one of those little signals that he's going dimensional. That means there's more than one application here and because we "are" in Matthew 24 and Jesus "is" describing the events that are about to take place which again, were things that 'took' place 2000 years ago, then the fields of white, ready for harvest . . .is not about our day and age now. It's about "that" age then. in another place he says this about the fields.
Matthew 13
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
What world? Is he talking about earth? No. the word "world" there is actually depicting the "age". The field was Israel, the tares were those embracing the old covenant system. Again, the reapers are angels. What was it that brought about the slaughter of Israel? It was THE MESSAGE. The religious people were actually killing each other as a result of the message of Christ being spread abroad and it was contradictory to their traiditions.
Mattew 24:31 is the same exact thing as Matthew 18. The fields were white. All of the things Jesus had been planting was ready for harvest and Jerusalem was the threshing floor where the tares and the wheat, the Old Covenant and the New Covenant was being defined.
lesson being....if you can't 'hear' someones conversation with the Lord..to not be quick to judge them worthless or drunk :dontknow:
these things were recorded for examples for all of us to heed. Change is not only necessary for life..it is LIFE. We shall be changed...
I will lead them by a 'way' they have not known before :HeartThrob:
ther are two eagles...the roots seek out water from one or the other....the two eagles and the vine..the Lord planted.....
so we must discern the difference :thumbsup: for edification Ezekiel 17 set forth an allegory and a parable....do you not know what these things
mean? The king of Babylon went to Jerusalem and carried off her king and nobles,bringing them back with him to Babylon....and made a treaty with him
so that the KINGDOM WOULD BE BROUGHT LOW,UNABLE TO RISE AGAIN,Surviving only by keeping his treaty...
This is what the Sovereign Lord says; I MYSELF WILL TAKE A SHOOT FROM THE VERY TOP OF A CEDAR AND PLANT IT ON A HIGH AND LOFTY MOUNTAIN
BIRDS OF EVERY KIND WILL NEST IN IT,THEY WILL FIND SHELTER IN THE SHADE OF IT'S BRANCHES
Oh!
Nepotism between Eli and the women?
Proverbs 30;18
There are three things that are amazing for me,four that I do not understand;
THE WAY OF AN EAGLE IN THE SKY
THE WAY OF A SERPENT ON A ROCK
THE WAY OF A SHIP ON THE HIGH SEAS
AND THE WAY OF A MAN WITH A MAIDEN
I think Jesus Christ knew this way
Ah! I see what you mean:
She eats and wipes her mouth
and says, 'I've done nothing wrong.'
Quote from: Nathan
The eagles are the true believers . . .Jerusalem is where the church was born out of the side of Jesus, blood and water, then manifested later in the upper room . . .Jerusalem is where the eagles gathered together because "that's" where the carcass was . . .what was the carcass? Did Jesus not say we must eat his flesh and drink his blood? he is the carcass that draws the eagles together and that is "where" these things shall be.Quote
Nathan, I think these verses also contribute to what you said.
Ex. 19:4 says, "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles wings, and brought you to MYSELF".
(Isaiah 40:31) But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
(Psalms 103:5) Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is RENEWEW LIKE THE EAGLE'S
CHB
if she puts out her roots to the wrong eagle. Rome,Babylon.... but..I am the vine..ye must remain in me
.... she can be borne on eagle's wings to a place out of the serpents reach....and look!
a cedar on a HIGH AND LOFTY MOUNTAIN...the Kingdom of Heaven...... Rev 14;1.....v 5 no lie was found in their mouths,they ARE blameless
Thank you.
Lovin' your stuff shiela!!
I pray you don't believe I think what I'm sharing is all-conclusive. There are so many dimensions to truth that i would never state one is wrong against another. It all stems from what realm we're looking from and what dimension we're looking at. I love the conversations this is creating . . .much harmony singing with the melody here. Great choir happening!! Oh nuts . . .that reminds me . . .sigh . . .31 again . .
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet
Many put the emphasis on the trumpet . . .but I hope by now we understand this isn't about a literal trumpet blast. It's about the "sound" of a trumpet . . . my sheep will know the "sound" of my voice. Truth carries a sound to it. Religion carries noise. Walking in the spirit allows us to differentiate between the two. Trumpet blast . . .Jubilee means "long blast". Definitely a connection there, but the key hear is, how many people can hear the "sound" that announces the harvest has come.
Back to the party at hand . . .
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
There's another crack of thunder Shawn as to the timing of when these things were to take place. Matthew 24 is directly connected to Daniel because we saw Jesus reach back and explicitly make the connection. We also know what Daniel saw is what John saw because the language was the same and the intensity is the same and the message is the same. So that would then say Matthew 24 is also directly linked with Revelation. All of those things are connected to the removal of "symbolism" ABOUT Jesus, to make way for people to have a personal relationship with the "substance" of Jesus. FAITH is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for. . . This is a transition of relationship that went from proof to faith. Tares represent those of "unbelief", wheat is the product of faith. . .faith is merely another word for . .belief. That generation was not willing to make the transition. So . . .Jesus made it EXTREMELY clear as to WHAT generation this all was connected to . . .and . . .IT AIN'T US.
Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luke 11:51
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Luke 17:25
But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (paralell of Matt. 24)
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Matthew 12:42
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Matthew 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (that was spoken while Jesus was in the temple, just before he explains more details in chaper 24. It's all the same context.
Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
He didn't just say it once, he said it over and over. Yet end-times alarmists insist it all has to do with "this" generation, 2,000 years later. They even say that the 70 weeks of Daniel has a 2,000 year gap in it . . .all in the effort to keep their doom and gloom doctrine intact. But it's just not accurate.
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
This is another huge one . . .guys, if you can, listen to this with your spirit and not your head. I know we talked about pearls before the swine and all of that, but I am confident that this particular part goes beyond just being a pearl God placed in my spirit. This is a liberating truth . .one of those things that will set you free from a lot of other junk that keeps wanting to second guess the sound that God has been projecting in you. I'm not going to say that your damned if you don't see it, I'm not even asking you to see it . . .I'm asking you to receive it. You've read enough of my stuff to hopefully know by now my intentions are not to establish a spot on the boards where people will honor my presence and all of that gibberish. But my true intent is to loosen up some mental ties that keep others from taking flight. I'm not worried about your salvation, my focus is on your ability to fly in that salvation. All I ask on this one is to merely spread your wings for a second and let the wind of the spirit do the lifting of your being.
Okay . ..got that off my chest . . .
At no time in any of this does Jesus ever give the indication that he's going ahead in time 2,000 years. In fact EVERYTHING we've read so far, Jesus has been as plain as he could to tell them one, it was going to happen. Two, it was going to happen TO THEM. And three . . . he was the triggering mechanism that would put it all into motion, and . . .it was now in motion.
So when we see this verse PLEASE UNDERSTAND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A SECOND COMING, A RAPTURE, THE END OF THE WORLD . . .NONE OF IT. It had EVERYTHING to do with the exact day when the collapse of the old system would come. It was actually in THEIR hands. We now know that it came in A.D. 70. But at that time, because it was in their hands, the "when" wasn't exact. But Jesus had just told them that it was going to happen to THAT GENERATION. If he didn't know when it was going to take place . . .how could he tell them it was going to happen in their generation? Because THAT was the generation he came in the flesh in. He didn't know the day or hour because that was based on "their" actions. The DAY OF THE LORD was not about the destruction of the old system or the removal of a nation. The Day of the Lord was about the establlishment of the New Covenant . . .what "was/is" the New Covenant?
That everything man was required to do in order to gain atonement, was now, once and forever, being done for us.
Quote from: sheila on August 13, 2011, 08:25:02 PM
if she puts out her roots to the wrong eagle. Rome,Babylon.... but..I am the vine..ye must remain in me
.... she can be borne on eagle's wings to a place out of the serpents reach....and look!
a cedar on a HIGH AND LOFTY MOUNTAIN...the Kingdom of Heaven...... Rev 14;1.....v 5 no lie was found in their mouths,they ARE blameless
Revelation 15:2; ...They held harps given them by God
coarse not! How many times has HE had us butt heads with one another on some perspective of seeing something...opposing one another....thinking
each of us are 'right' only to have Him open up our narrow veiw[width/breadth/length/heigth of the Kingdom of His love]. Each of us with a perspective..
that HE WANT'S TO BRING INTO UNION WITH HIS MIND...to give us a broader more spacious veiw/land.
Yes,it was finished then..the atonement at- one-mind/thought and it was the LOVE OF GOD FOR MANKIND that accomplished it..through His Son
but now...the 'REVELATION' of it all to all...does concern us at this time...for this,too, is the time of revealing...and our lives are hidden in Christ
Beloved servant...a large black and white eagle? harpy eagle...we have that which is black and white..when combined is gray[ce/see] :happygrin:
Well, Sheila,
Now I have to join some of the other members having said to you on different threads that, at this point, I have no idea what you're talking about.
I have to agree with Beloved Servant Sheila . . .what are you responding to? "course not" . . .what? Course not that the day or the hour was "not" referring to when the temple would be demolished with the religious system? I'm lost to what you were responding to there.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be
I wrote a song a while back that we sing in church . . .not sure if I can remember the exact words here but . . .goes something like . ..
AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH
SO SHALL IT BE WHEN JESUS COMES
IT'S A GREAT CELEBRATION
WHERE MEN AND WOMEN BECOME AS ONE
IT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE ALL THINKING
IT'S NOT ABOUT DOOM AND GLOOM
THE DAY OF REST IS CALLING
LEADING TO HIS CHAMBER ROOM
LET HIM WASH AWAY MY DARKNESS
CARNAILITY IN ME WILL DIE
I CAN HEAR THE ANGELS SINGING
THE CELEBRATION OF THE GROOM AND BRIDE
LORD, I AM, IN YOU,
WALKING TWO BY TWO
LET THE CURSE NOW BE REVERSED
LET THE OLD NOW BE MADE NEW
THIS IS THE PROMISE OF THE LORD
ALL DEATH IS GONE, NEW LIFE RESTORED
SON AND WIFE WALKING HAND IN HAND
HIS KINGDOM HAS COME,
IT'S A WHOLE NEW LAND
People connect this verse with the end times because of what's coming up next. But for me, okay, the song took it to a spiritual level, but literally, to me all he was saying was that when it happens, it'll be like a thief in the nght, people won't even have time to make any preparations to get out before the slaughter begins because they're too busy trying to reproduce (marrying and giving in marriage) the very covenant that God was removing. But once the mind is set on a thing, it takes either the voice of God or an act of congress . . .and given how great our congress has been on making changes, I put my money on the voice of God for the power to turn a mindset around.
But this doesn't fit a rapture because God didn't remove the righteous while he destroyed the unrighteous. He "protected" the righteous in the ark . . .which represents Christ. It was the ark that weathered the flood, it is Christ who weathers our storms as well as we are to be "hidden" in him.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Can you feel the traditional teachings creeping in? Don't ya feel your mind trying to go back to the old stomping grounds of relying on what someone else ingrained in you rather than letting the Spirit reveal something new and living?
Okay, in the days of Noah, who had been taken and who was left? Was it the godly being taken? Cuz that's the whole theory behind the rapture . . .they just won't keep this in context. Nothing has changed. It's still pertaining to the collision between the two covenants. It isn't the godly leaving, it's the ungodly. What happened in A.D. 70 was not God removing those that embraced the new covenant, but it was God removing the old covenant itself and those that embraced it went with it. So . . .the two in the field, the one that was taken was the tare, the one that remained was the wheat.
The hour of the Lord is not about our age but that one.
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
This was never about the end of the world, it was again . . .I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but it was the end of the covenant and those that were of the New covenant, which by the way, there were very few . . .but only "they" had the ability to hear this and even then, given the way the disciples reasoned the things Jesus said, their minds were probably lost in his words as well. But their spirits were receiving the truths Jesus was relaying. And again Jesus repeats about being ready for what was coming. Still has nothing to do with an event 2000 years later.
:bigGrin:
what I'm saying is....you were right about your concern with there being an eagle to beware of...and Nathan is right about an eagle that we mount
up on wings like...and that often times...God wants us to not look at it as black and white[like he's wrong,I;m right,or vice versa] but to see and get a
broader picture of GRACE :thumbsup: the" coarse not "comment to you,Nathan..when you said you hoped I did not think what you were sharing was
all conclusive. My other comment to Beloved was in regard to the harps they held on the Mount...there are harpy eagles with black and white feathers!!
Revelation 15:2; ...They held harps given them by God <—— This ???
Quote from: sheila on August 13, 2011, 11:23:53 PM
God wants us to not look at it as black and white[like he's wrong,I;m right,or vice versa]
Are you speaking about the events of 70 A.D.?
no,no,no I am speaking about your concern with an eagle to beware about,and Nathan speaking about the eaglewings we mount up on...neither is right or wrong
black or white...but when the spirit puts them both togather properly..we have a more wider veiw of grace.....
as to the rest of Nathan's post...I had not commented on..... :HeartThrob:
Sheila, sister,
I'm still not following you.
My only mention of eagles was to WhiteWings:
Another view is that believers are eagles and the carcass is SELF.
Should be able to wrap this up today.
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
By now, most people who've interpreted this chapter have already left the original context which as a result, causes all of this to become "personal interpretation" which is what were "not" supposed to do with Scritpure, right? (1 Peter 1 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. ) This entire chapter has been prophetic one. But when you leave it "in" the context of the original topic Jesus was speaking about, you'll see this is still pertaining to those who are of the old covenant, and those who transitioned into the new. A "faithful" servant is not one who is consistant in always being around as in "they faithfully showed up for work . . ." But a faithful servant is one who is FULL of FAITH. Which means one who does not rely on what is seen. Faith being the substance of things UNSEEN. Old Covenant dealt with tangible. You literally took the animal and it literally was the sacrifice on behalf of your sin. It was all a visual symbol of redemption. NEW Covenant takes it into the invisible. Instead of depending on man's abilities to repeatedly make sacrifices for our sin, now, in faith we rely on the finished works of Christ that the sacrifice has been done once and for all.
Look at it this way. The Old covenant was all symbolism. each act, each artifact, each ritual was all a sign "pointing" to Christ. Okay? Have you ever seen anyone build their entire house out of signs? I mean literal signs? The kind of billboards that tell you how many miles you need to go to get to Vegas. How fast you can go, which direction you should go, whether you can pass or not, a hill is coming up, a curve, watch out for pedestrians . .on and on. Imagine someone taking all those signs and building a house out of it. In 'this" day and age, you'd probably get a reality show for doing it. But it would be a novelty act at best, nothing more. And, for a person looking for direction, when they come to "this" house, do you think it would help them? The house would have so many different signs saying so many different things that it would be nothing short of a house of confusion. The house of signs is not to be your destination, it's supposed to point toward your destination. But those who ebrace the sign never get to see the destination, which in our case, is Christ.
Those who embraced the Old Covenant were building their religious house with signs instead of substance. And the fact that Jesus "was" the substance, the fact that he showed up was an indication in and of itself that the signs were no longer useful or effective. It'd be like you're driving down the main drag in Vegas and you'd see a sign saying "Vegas, straight ahead . . ." Really? Someone somewhere felt that people wouldn't already know they were "in" Vegas? It was the same with the Old Covenant. The symbolism was all about Christ and so when he arrived, the signs were no longer necessary. Problem was, the relious rejected the fact that they'd arrived at their destination.
Back to my sign analogy . .. it'd be like you were following the signs so long that once you finally got to Vegas, and the sign said you were "in" Vegas, instead of getting out and abiding "in" Vegas, you were so addicted to the signs that you were in denial that you were where they said you were, so you continued driving around as though you hadn't arrived yet. The religious continued on with their religious activity even after Jesus died, was buried and resurrected, the veil was torn from top to bottom . .. they still continued on as though none of it happened.
Matthew 24 is about Jesus informing the disciples that it was time to take the signs down. The signs did what they were supposed to do, they led man to a place where Jesus was, and now that Jesus had arrived, a new message needed to be written on the signs. Instead of directions of where you needed to go and what you needed to do, these new signs were about what's already been done and where we're going has been taken care of . . .we aren't to worry about what tomorrow brings anymore . . .Just embrace the grace of where God has us today.
A FAITH-FULL servant is full of God's wisdom and God has given you authority over your HOUSEhold because you laid your signs down. "In my Father's HOUSE are many rooms . . .God's house does not consist of signs of something yet to come. God's house is build with living stones . . .us.
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Doing what? What the previous verse says we're to be doing . .. giving meat in due season. That would lead into Hebrews 5 and 6 as to what that meat is . . .another sermon for another time.
47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
With faith, comes authority and power . . not flesh over flesh, but spirit over flesh. We walk in faith, believing in things unseen, "his" strength gives us authority over his goods . . .the elements within the house of God . . .that's a lot of goods!!
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
There is a lot of this kind of warning about being alert. I think being watchful is the same as being faithful in that walking in the spirit is an elevated relationship, an ascended positioning in higher places. Not above people, but above the power and influence of carnality. It's that "thief in the night" message. Carnality is the thief that comes in to steel our authority and if we're walking in the spirit, that can't happen. But no place in this passage is it ever referring to eternal judgment. The reference to gnashing of teeth is not about hell as the church preaches about hell, the weeping and gnashing was still in the context of the rest of what was said about the on coming slaughter . . .it was all the result of walking in faithlessness . . .and the thief came. The day of the Lord was not about destruction of Israel, all though that is definitely one of the results.
But the Day of the Lord was about Jesus establishing the New Covenant system . . . He restored his house that became a den of thieves into a place of grace. And that's where we're called to be in our generation now . . .embrace the grace.
Lord I know I could never hold a candle to you
your grace and your mercy are so pure and true
I could never make in this world alone
I could never make in this world alone.
Even though it's darkness that my mind can only see
I feel your sweet, sweet spirit come and purify me
come and open up the windows of my soul
oh won't you open up the windows of my soul
When I, embrace your grace
it is sufficient for me
I stand here face to face
your truth has set me free
your truth has set me free.
Nuts . . .I can't remember the second verse to that. Sigh . . .
Beautiful, Nathan!
Thanks, I started writing that as a song a week ago this past Saturday . . .got through the first verse and I literally felt the door close on it. It was very strange. But I'd lost the melody, the rhythm, even struggled trying to remember the chord progression . . .so, I walked away from it. Then Wednesday night before our bible study, I sat down at the keyboard and it came back . . .so I picked up the scribbles of the first verse and the chorus came to me . . .that was it . .. Then three days later, I came back on Saturday night again and the last verse poured out . . .it's one of the few songs I'd written that came in stages . . .it was progressional.
I didn't think much of it at the time, but when I introduced it into our worship during church on Sunday, the Lord started adding other things as to "why" it was progressional. It's all about grace and . . .grace is progressional as well. It fell right into with the passage in Revelation 21 where there are 12 gates around the walls leading into the city of Jerusalem . . .I'm pretty sure that we had a discussion last week on pearls somewhere on a thread didn't we? I lose track of where I write what.
But pearls actually start out as irritants. A foreign material gets lodged within the oyster, generally a grain of sand, and the oyster automatically secretes a chemical that coats the object. It puts layer upon layer upon layer . . .a progression . . .and over the course of time, what was once an irritant, is now a gem of great value and luster. Real pearls are not like average gems in that they need to be protected from drying out. Lack of moisture causes them to darken and they lose their shine. The moisture represents the Holy Spirit and how we need to walk in spiritual hydration constantly . . .when we dry out, we lose our ability to shine truth into others as well as see truth in ourselves.
The purpose of these gates of one pearl is to usher others into the kingdom. The fact that there are twelve depicts they are established in God's "government". And God's goverment "is" love. The fact that there are three gates to each of the four sides of this wall is to signify the message that ushers people in is one of resurrection . . .New Jerusalem is the gathering of the spiritual Jews . . which we all are. The walls are not there to confine or divide, but to distinguish and define. "Gates" speak of authority, pearls speak of finished works of Christ in our lives. I did not make myself a pearl, that came through the progression of grace . . .just like the song did. Each time I sinned, another layer of grace was applied. That's why Paul was told, grace is sufficient, where sin abounds, grace abounds even more. Instead of us trying to remove our sin, perhaps it would be much more effective, and even easier for us if we'd embrace the grace instead.
I thought I was done with this Mattew 24 thing, but if you don't mind, there "is" one other thing that I'd like to share on these closing verses.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth
I believe the religious leaders of Jesus' day fit this part to a "T". They didn't beleive Jesus was "coming" and especially verse 49 manifested greatly in the fact that as I mentioned before, when the Roman soldiers first came in, they didn't come in to wipe out Jerusalem, they came in to try to subdue the civil wars that were breaking out between the religious sects of Jews. The religious were "smiting" their "fellow servants". As a result, they didn't see what was coming, they were cut assunder and were judged as hyporcrites and with all the torture and slaughter that followed . . .there was great weeping and nashing of teeth.
So . . .Shawn . . .your original question was about whether or not Matthew 24 was connected to Revelation and I am fully confident that it indeed was. I hope this was able to shed some light on the fact that if it's kept in it's context, with all preconceived noitions, teachings, and ideas set aside, it becomes obviously clear that these things were never intended for a generation 2000 years removed. it was for "them" THEN and it fell on them just as Jesus said it would. Not only was every stoned turned over, but no man has ever been able to rebuild it since . . .nor will they. Be careful how you present that last part . . .it can be quite confrontational. :)
Holy cow . . . I thought it might be useful to me later if I copied what I've written here over to a word document. Just on my own comments alone on this thread, at 12 font, it came to 22 pages!!! Good grief!!
just post the .doc .....
I want to go in and edit some of it so that it doesn't reflect some of the references to individuals or some of the outside comments . . .should take too much . . but that's a good idea as well . . .I've never tried posting a document on a forum, it's fairly easy isn't it? Maybe a drag and drop???
Not drag and drop but still easy.
Start a reply like you done 1000's of times before.
Under the field where you type your post you find a link: Attachments and other options
Click it and it will expand.
You will find "Attach" and a button (similar to) browse.
Click it and point to your file. Then continue with you post if needed. And press the usual post button.
Note the limitations.
Allowed file types: doc, gif, jpg, mpg, pdf, png, txt, zip
Restrictions: 10 per post, maximum total size 500KB, maximum individual size 512KB
I "did" dig up the rest of that song though . . .
EMBRACE THE GRACE
LORD I KNOW I COULD NEVER HOLD A CANDLE TO YOU
YOUR GRACE AND YOUR MERCY ARE SO PURE AND TRUE
I COULD NEVER MAKE IT IN THIS WORLD ALONE
I COULD NEVER MAKE IT IN THIS WORLD ALONE
IN SPITE OF ALL THE DARKNESS MY THAT MIND CAN ONLY SEE
I FEEL YOUR SWEET, SWEET SPIRIT COME AND PURIFY ME
COME AND OPEN UP THE WINDOWS OF MY SOUL
OH WON'T YOU OPEN UP THE WINDOWS OF MY SOUL
LORD I EMBRACE YOUR GRACE
IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME
I'M STANDING FACE TO FACE
YOUR TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE
YOUR TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE
YOUR LOVE HAS CARRIED ME AWAY TO YOUR ASCENDED PLACE
WHERE I CAN HEAR THE SOUND OF YOUR AMAZING GRACE
AND THEN YOU WASH AWAY THE GUILT AND SHAME FROM ME
AND THEN YOU WASH AWAY THE GUILT AND SHAME FROM ME
WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS THERE IS LIBERTY
OUR BONDAGES ARE BROKEN, WE ARE FINALLY FREE
NOW I CAN RUN AWAY, INTO YOUR OPEN ARMS
I'M GOING TO RUN AWAY, INTO YOUR OPEN ARMS
LORD I EMBRACE YOUR GRACE
IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME
I'M STANDING FACE TO FACE
YOUR TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE
YOUR TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE
Don't feel bad Nathan, I wrote a hit song a long time ago and can't remember all of the words to it. Of course I got cheated out of the whole thing. God knows best though.
CHB
I finally got to go through the rest of this...wonderful. This is one of my favorite threads. I need to go through this post and turn it into a word document as well. My wife is wanting to read it.
:beerburp: