Is The Grave Not Sheol?

[Lorenzo]

I think I'll write a rebuttal for this.

[sheila]

true death/2nd death Lof..is only expierenced by the demons..it is the place prepared for them....man expierences only the death

of his flesh..and his spirit is redeemed because of Jesus work..and returns unto the Father[barn/wheat]

  demons are made of the dust of heaven...and their flesh[which is all they are] shall be totally consumed...along with the evil contrast

spirit inside it.  not so for man...man's spirit is redeemed and garmented in immortality[the best robe]  Praise God for what He has done!

for the work of His hands! we are fearfully and wonderfully made!

  it is harvest time..and He shall have the angels to gather and bind the tares...and you shall find out why your belly is bitter..and

why every man has his hands on his stomach. you will see the wicked one that He has delivered you from.

our flesh[dead in sin] is our grave..even sheol the sides of the pit..but we are not alone in them..for there are 'graven images"

or tares[sin/evil spirits] in here with us....He will take back the hedge[He that now restrains] and reveal these sons of perdition

unto you.   do not be dismayed..and take heart..for even if your bed is made in sheol..HE IS WITH YOU!

[sheila]

Abrahams great horror that fell upon him..the smoking furnace.[.and the locust armies] and a torch will pass between the pieces

....and the two wittnesses shall lay dead as in the street of the great city called Sodom and Egypt........[3 days of darkness plague]...

   these locust armies will come upon a peaceful/secure unsuspecting people..a land recovered from warfare..dwelling without wall

  or hedge[restrainer taken out of the way]

  the prince of this world WILL let HIS PEOPLE GO!!!!!! and all the animals also...............Please,please read and remember this!!!

   

[eaglesway]

true death/2nd death Lof..is only expierenced by the demons..it is the place prepared for them....man expierences only the death

of his flesh..and his spirit is redeemed because of Jesus work..and returns unto the Father[barn/wheat]

  demons are made of the dust of heaven...and their flesh[which is all they are] shall be totally consumed...along with the evil contrast

spirit inside it.  not so for man...man's spirit is redeemed and garmented in immortality[the best robe]  Praise God for what He has done!

for the work of His hands! we are fearfully and wonderfully made!

  it is harvest time..and He shall have the angels to gather and bind the tares...and you shall find out why your belly is bitter..and

why every man has his hands on his stomach. you will see the wicked one that He has delivered you from.

our flesh[dead in sin] is our grave..even sheol the sides of the pit..but we are not alone in them..for there are 'graven images"

or tares[sin/evil spirits] in here with us....He will take back the hedge[He that now restrains] and reveal these sons of perdition

unto you.   do not be dismayed..and take heart..for even if your bed is made in sheol..HE IS WITH YOU!

Altho the fire was prepared for the devil and His angels, Jesus clearly says that some people will go into it in matthew 25

also in rev 14;10, any who receive the mark of the beast or the number of His name(whatever that represents, doesnt matter) will be corrected with fire and brimstone(pyr kai theio) before the holy messengers and before the Lamb.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20;15

The passage in Rev 20 refers to the same thing as the passage in Romans 2...

their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, even as there is now by those who resist Him, until they have "paid the last penny" and yielded to Him.

Wasnt the prodigal son thrown, in a sense, into the "lake of fire"? we always focus on His return- but it was in the lake of fire that he came to His senses.

[marie glen]

true death/2nd death Lof..is only expierenced by the demons..it is the place prepared for them....man expierences only the death

of his flesh..and his spirit is redeemed because of Jesus work..and returns unto the Father[barn/wheat]

  demons are made of the dust of heaven...and their flesh[which is all they are] shall be totally consumed...along with the evil contrast

spirit inside it.  not so for man...man's spirit is redeemed and garmented in immortality[the best robe]  Praise God for what He has done!

for the work of His hands! we are fearfully and wonderfully made!

  it is harvest time..and He shall have the angels to gather and bind the tares...and you shall find out why your belly is bitter..and

why every man has his hands on his stomach. you will see the wicked one that He has delivered you from.

our flesh[dead in sin] is our grave..even sheol the sides of the pit..but we are not alone in them..for there are 'graven images"

or tares[sin/evil spirits] in here with us....He will take back the hedge[He that now restrains] and reveal these sons of perdition

unto you.   do not be dismayed..and take heart..for even if your bed is made in sheol..HE IS WITH YOU!

Altho the fire was prepared for the devil and His angels, Jesus clearly says that some people will go into it in matthew 25

also in rev 14;10, any who receive the mark of the beast or the number of His name(whatever that represents, doesnt matter) will be corrected with fire and brimstone(pyr kai theio) before the holy messengers and before the Lamb.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20;15

The passage in Rev 20 refers to the same thing as the passage in Romans 2...

their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, even as there is now by those who resist Him, until they have "paid the last penny" and yielded to Him.

Wasnt the prodigal son thrown, in a sense, into the "lake of fire"? we always focus on His return- but it was in the lake of fire that he came to His senses.

"will be corrected with fire and brimstone(pyr kai theio) before the holy messengers and before the Lamb." ...I get the impression this is at His return...? the separation of the goats and sheep.. sheep gathered into His barn and others gathered into bundles to be burned, which i think of as at armageddon..

Revelation 14:9-11 - (YLT)
9 And a third messenger did follow them, saying in a great voice, `If any one the beast doth bow before, and his image, and doth receive a mark upon his forehead, or upon his hand,
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

[marie glen]

the lof at the end of chapter 20, being one thousand+ years later..? rev 20:7a;12-14;15 - "7 Now when the thousand years have expired... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

[eaglesway]

Seems to me- If the wheat and the tares was armegeddon, it would be as if all the tares from all the generations since Jesus would have got a free pass :o)

Anyone who was not on that battlefield(har mediddo) would not be included.

I think that parable has a much broader application. I don't think the battlefield of Armegeddon is the place where the tares can be separated out from amongst the wheat without trampling and damaging them- indeed I think the opposite is true. War kills, burns and maims indiscriminately.

Its a parable, so I understand that it can be interpreted in different ways, but i think Jesus explained it, and the explanation is (to me) broader than just the one conflagration at the end of this age- within the age. To me it refers to the end of the age - in the age that all are ushered into by death, which is the harvest.

"Put in your sickle for the vines are ripe for harvest"

The harvest has always been reprsentative of the death of multitudes or the general mass of humankind. From this we get the Grim Reaper, and other images related to the inevitable fate of all mankind.

Also Jesus as the first-fruits from among the dead and us as "begotten by the Word of God as a kind of first-fruits of his creatures".

"Multitudes multitudes in the valley of decision."

To me this mortal life is the "valley of decision" and the "valley of the shadow of death".

"It is given to men once to die and then comes the judgement"- the Tribunal is before the eyes of the One who sees all, dividing asunder soul and spirit.

"Hide us from the face of the Lamb and the One on the throne"

men will call for the "rocks to fall on them and hide them, when the "heavens roll back like a scroll"

To me these are all metaphors for a universal epiphany that will occur outside the veil of time.  :2c:

[eaglesway]

the lof at the end of chapter 20, being one thousand+ years later..? rev 20:7a;12-14;15 - "7 Now when the thousand years have expired... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

There are only a few words there describing the process of the Great White Throne and its aftermath. I think it is primarily symbolic of an actual spiritual transition of all things- such as 2 Peter 3

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Peters words there could easily describe the Lake of Fire also.

1 Corinthians 15 describes it also(in terms of the process of it), as does Romans 2 and Daniel 7

9"I kept looking
            Until thrones were set up,
            And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
            His vesture was like white snow
            And the hair of His head like pure wool.
            His throne was ablaze with flames,
            Its wheels were a burning fire.

      10"A river of fire was flowing
            And coming out from before Him;
            Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
            And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
            The court sat,
            And the books were opened.

11"Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12"As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.


13"I kept looking in the night visions,
            And behold, with the clouds of heaven
            One like a Son of Man was coming,
            And He came up to the Ancient of Days
            And was presented before Him.

      14"And to Him was given dominion,
            Glory and a kingdom,
            That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
            Might serve Him.
            His dominion is an everlasting dominion
            Which will not pass away;
            And His kingdom is one
            Which will not be destroyed.

Daniel and other prophets often employ a "back and forth" method of expression, flashing from images of the age to come and the second advent, then back to images that relate to the end of this age and events leading up to it.

The thousand years (I believe) will include judgments also because as Daniel prophecies ..." the thrones were set and the ancient of days took his seat"

But when these aionian periods are prophesied it is not in such a detailed way that we can draw absolute conclusions(imo)

They are seen through a glass darkly.