Another argument I often hear from Arminian ET'ers. "Oh, God is heartbroken every time someone leaves this world without Jesus. But He's doing everything he can to keep people out of the place of eternal torment. He had Jesus speak twice as much about Hell as about Heaven. He gave us anointed writings of Kenneth Hagin, Mary Baxter and Bill Wiese" etc. etc.
I disagree. If ET is true (I don't believe it is), God definitely isn't doing all He can. Here are 3 things I'd go about differently as an Arminian God.
1) I wouldn't have turned a blind eye when teh Adversary started Islam. Today there are over 1 billion Muslims worldwide. According to Fundamentalists/Evangelicans, there is very little hope for them. I would've sent one of my own angels to Muhammad to tell him not to listen the first one who told him to start a new religion.
2) I would have made Bible more clear and less open to all kinds of different interpretations. 2000 years after Jesus we're still fighting over what's correct doctrine and what's not.
3) I would, every now and then, intervene radio and TV broadcasts with a signal that overrides all other transmissions, and do this at the same time all over the world with messages like "Hello. This is your God speaking. Sorry for interrupting, but I'd like to warn you that the punishments of Hell are everlasting in nature. That is, you will be punished day and night not for thousand years, not for a ten thousand years, not for a million years but forever and ever. I love you, but if you die without Jesus, there's nothing I can ever do for you. Sure, I am omnipotent... but that's complicated. Please don't ask too many difficult questions. I do have the answers, but you wouldn't understand anyway. Enough chit chat... wouldn't you like to stop watching that soap opera now, and start praying for the lost people?"
If Arminianism is true, God really could do a lot more.
The only lost people are the people that think others are lost :winkgrin:
QuoteI would have made Bible more clear and less open to all kinds of different interpretations. 2000 years after Jesus we're still fighting over what's correct doctrine and what's not.
God made it a glass darkly; but man made it a brick wall. Because of adding pagan doctrines to the Bible, it needs a lot of patch work top explain things away. Of course everyone has his/her own patchwork so more patchwork is needed elsewhere.
So yes; there is complexity in the Bible. But most is manmade.
Quote from: WhiteWings
God made it a glass darkly; but man made it a brick wall.
Hi,
I believe God made it a glass darkly on purpose so that no human could find out the whole truth of things. If anyone did, do you know what big swollen heads they would have from knowing it all? :laughing7: Some of us think we know it all anyway, speaking of myself. :happygrin: Joking aside, I think God himself in person, wants to educate us when the time comes.
CHB
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 27, 2011, 04:59:52 PM
The only lost people are the people that think others are lost :winkgrin:
QuoteI would have made Bible more clear and less open to all kinds of different interpretations. 2000 years after Jesus we're still fighting over what's correct doctrine and what's not.
God made it a glass darkly; but man made it a brick wall. Because of adding pagan doctrines to the Bible, it needs a lot of patch work top explain things away. Of course everyone has his/her own patchwork so more patchwork is needed elsewhere.
So yes; there is complexity in the Bible. But most is manmade.
"
The only lost people are the people that think others are lost " I like that :thumbsup:
I used to and sometimes still do wonder why as a people we are so confused about what we believe. This glass darkly thing bothered me for a very long time. But, I wonder...is that spiritual dissonance the catalyst for spiritual growth? Is it a tilling of our soil to make us fertile for truth? Is our relationship deeper and more meanful because we have experienced the spiritual stunting of certain doctrines? In the Old Testament of my life, I knew law and judgment but knew little of true relationship with Christ. It was a mere shadow of what was to come in the Holy Spirit's revealing of truth. In the New Testament of my life, I am better able to appreciate my walk with Christ because I remember the old...the shadow. Upon that backdrop, I can not only help serve those in bondage from a place of understanding but also have gratitude for the current workings of the Holy Spirit in my life.
Quote from: CHB on May 27, 2011, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings
God made it a glass darkly; but man made it a brick wall.
Hi,
I believe God made it a glass darkly on purpose so that no human could find out the whole truth of things. If anyone did, do you know what big swollen heads they would have from knowing it all? :laughing7: Some of us think we know it all anyway, speaking of myself. :happygrin: Joking aside, I think God himself in person, wants to educate us when the time comes.
CHB
God does this so we learn humility when we realize later how wrong we were after we thought we knew it all! :thumbsup:
Regarding the OP, people who believe this effectively make God out to be the biggest loser and Satan the winner, though they might not think of it that way, that is what they are saying.
God can't do much to save people, but Satan lies, cheats, and deceives as much as he wants and eventually gets 99% of souls....
God is not trying at all to keep souls out of hell.
Souls die, expire, quit breathing they become dead. And when they are dead they are in hell( the place of the unseenn, away from His Face)
Psa 139:2 You Yourself know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought from afar;
Psa 139:3 My path and my pallet You have measured off, And for all my ways You have made provision."
Psa 139:4 For though there be no declaration on my tongue, Behold, O Yahweh, You know it all."
Psa 139:7 Whither could I go from Your spirit, And whither could I run away from Your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I should climb to the heavens, You are there, And should I make my berth in the unseen, behold, You are there."
My God is a loving and working God who will have all....all of His creation where He wants it in His time.
Amen to that!!!
CHB
Some good posts here
this is what Father is doing[Jesus said I only do what I behold the Father in heaven doing] raising the dead..opening the eyes of the blind,ears of the deaf
freely forgiving man his sins,giving the free gift of eternal life to all mankind bought with Jesus' blood,washing their feet,wiping away every tear,no more
death or mourning or pain...for the old order of things.......HAS PASSED AWAY