Unique Proof For The Doctrine Of Universalism

[micah7:9]

I believe that! Besides are not most of the seminaries started on the "belief" they had? Like these TV preachers when they become so rich they have to start a bible college(for mo money) and all you will be taught is "their truths" their, "this how it it." MO.

[lomarah]

Never heard that before but I don't doubt it. It's a good thing I had had such an overwhelming experience of Him at my conversion or I may have given up altogether. Bible university had me so overwhelmed and disillusioned, I was to the point where I was sure there was no way of ever knowing the truth. Literally every professor had different opinions and perspectives on everything... the more I sought their opinions the worse off I was. (And to top it off I was a psychology major... LOL!!) Ahhhhh the irony and hilarity of it all lol...

[ded2daworld]

I once had a psychology professor tell the class that he could sum up all of human psychology with 3 words repeated:

            "Look at ME!!  Look at ME!!"

[lomarah]

 :laugh:  :LH:
Ahahahahaha so true isn't it??

[Lazarus Short]

Ded, that reminds me of the old saw I was told in college - the Philosophy professor who, for a final exam, walked to the blackboard and wrote ONE question:

WHY?


The one student who got an "A" on the exam wrote:

BECAUSE!

[ded2daworld]

Yep - philosophy - IMO he/she got an A because the aim of philosophy is to NOT answer any questions - just discuss them endlessly. :laugh:

[Lazarus Short]

Yep - philosophy - IMO he/she got an A because the aim of philosophy is to NOT answer any questions - just discuss them endlessly. :laugh:

Endless discussion...or to set up for war and mass murder - see my sig.  :eek:

[ded2daworld]

Spealing of Alexander the great
Did you ever hear of Ivan the great?
How about Ivan the terrible.
Ironic that Ivan the great and Ivan the terible were the same guy.

The only major conquerer that was a real sweetheart? Attilla the hon :laugh:

[battle axe]

Can anyone help with this from CARM Website>

The truth is, they are right. It can be translated into a temporal sense as it is in Rom. 16:25: "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages (aionios1) past." But the reason it is translated that way is because of context, and that is extremely important. Context determines meaning, as you will see later.

With the claim that "aionion" can be translated into something temporal and that its root means "age," the universalist then says that any reference to "eternal fire," "eternal torment," or "eternal punishment" is not really eternal. Instead of "eternal torment," it is "aionion torment." Instead of "eternal punishment," it is "aionion punishment." That way, to the universalist, there is no eternal hell, no eternal punishment, and no eternal damnation. Everyone will be saved.

This approach by the Universalists can be confusing to someone who doesn't understand Greek, and that is part of the reason that Universalism has followers. It is true that the root "aion" means age. But just because a root means age does not mean that every word derived from that root means a limited duration of time. For example, consider this verse that is speaking about God:



who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen, (1 Tim. 6:16)

The context is obviously dealing with God's eternal nature. The word in Greek for "immortality" is "athanatos." The Greek word for death is "thanatos." The "a" in front of the word is the negator -- without, non, etc. It means that God is deathless; hence, immortal. This is an eternal quality of God. Likewise, the verse states that God has eternal dominion. The word for "eternal" is "aionios" which is derived from the Greek root "aion" which means age. But, God is not immortal for only an "age," nor is His dominion temporal. The word "eternal" is absolutely the best way to translate the Greek "aionion" because God is immortal and eternal. Therefore, it would be wrong to translate the verse by stating that God has "aionion" dominion. Rather, He has eternal dominion.

                                                                            "into the age of the ages"
Translated as "forever and ever"; "forevermore"     




It seems that by the translations forever is forever not just an age ? Gulp! sorry back to that again  :laughing7:

[ded2daworld]

But God's dominion is eternal because God alone is eternal.
Eternal also means unchanging which means God alone qualifies.
Eternal and immortal are different.
Therefore, absolutely nothing else is eternal, not death or hell - which are cast into the lake of fire.
The "Lake of fire" is only eternal if this is a word picture of God himself since "our God is a consuming fire"

I guess in that sense - everyone will be "in" eternal fire when God is all in all.

[misszoolander]

God is the beginning and the end - Eternal.

Who else or what else can make this claim?

[misszoolander]

BA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLK5l77SvK0
Watch this if you want to know more

[battle axe]

Thx again ;)

I think God is the lake of fire because according to Ezekiel (I cannot find the scripture yet) its talks of the fire in hell coming from his throne, so that fire is part of God in hell or is God, NO wander they confess then lol!  Makes more sence,  Its not like Jesus is waiting beside them tapping his fingers saying c'mon c'mon confess confess, it would come from anyone alone just from been there.   One thing is for sure it must be a set period, but still I cant be fully convinced they get out until i see that forever is not forever, but so far I see the eternal & everlasting as forever. 

Sadly talkin of the unrepentant it says one kind go to life everlasting & the other eternal fire. The word perish gets me too, perish must mean be consumed until cleansed?  If the lake of fire is forever how do we relate that to all been saved just a thought ?  Lake of fire goes along with the word tormented doesnt it?

Daniel 7:9 NIV

"As I looked, "thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze.   WOW!  Did u get that a throne with wheels? hehe Im just trying get my head around that one  :trampoline:

[battle axe]

BA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLK5l77SvK0
Watch this if you want to know more

JUst to say thx alot misszoolander  :thumbsup: I really really enjoyed that & saved it to my favourites now, I can also share that inm my simple church group online

If any of you are on facebook infact I would loooove to add you to my group, well the LOrd's.  As here is for discussion simple church is for sharing & encouraging, often there is great quotes from many sources not only the scriptures, some music video's, notes from heaven, sometimes poetic.  If so please PM here  & share me your usernames.

Love in Christ  :thumbsup:

[kukikreem]

 Eternal (aionian) is simply the adjective used to describe the length of something.  For example, if I say, you are tall.  That means you are as tall as however tall you are.  If I say, that building is tall, it doesn't mean you're as tall as the building, even tho I used THE SAME WORDS to describe both of you.  When you talk about eternity, you have to look at the subject.  When you say God is eternal, He is, because He's GOD.  When you say punishment is eternal, it's obviously not, because nothing is immortal or truly eternal except God.  Eternal or aion, is simply the adjective used to describe the length of something. 

[WhiteWings]

It depends on what tall means. Does it mean 'certain length' or 'unlimited length'. That's what the discussion usually focusses on. :2c:

[rosered]

Eternal (aionian) is simply the adjective used to describe the length of something.  For example, if I say, you are tall.  That means you are as tall as however tall you are.  If I say, that building is tall, it doesn't mean you're as tall as the building, even tho I used THE SAME WORDS to describe both of you.  When you talk about eternity, you have to look at the subject.  When you say God is eternal, He is, because He's GOD.  When you say punishment is eternal, it's obviously not, because nothing is immortal or truly eternal except God.  Eternal or aion, is simply the adjective used to describe the length of something.

  I love the simple way you explained this !   good job !
  and  agree 
I was thinking last week  how hard it is to communicate   with this English language !

   I was just  thinking how we need more chickens and  corrected myself  saying we need more hens  ! not roosters  but they are all  chickens     , being more specific   .Just      like WW  says to the  Word  being described      , it   sure   seems to help 

  Thanks for your post  , I got alot out of it

[marie glen]

I can't remember the actual study but the gist of it was that the longer people attended Bible college or theological seminary, the LESS likely they were to believe God existed and that the Bible could be trusted for spiritual information. :dontknow:

    :LH: :faint:  wow.. the twilight zone..

[strainerofcamels]

I was filled with the Spirit at 18, had an insatiable desire for the word... went to bible school for Bible degree... lived literally like a dream relationship with God for 2 years then He said quit school.... I was like But I am just about to get to all the Bible classes... the whole reason I am here. I foolishly told Him No (I don't recommend that at all lol) and 20 years later I am FINALLY fully coming out of this loooooong detour! I do now recognize of course that in His sovereignty and wisdom He did and is working it all for good but wow, truly I am a living testimony that if you want a hot mess of religious confusion then opt for the religious training of men over God....!

[guest5685]

I was filled with the Spirit at 18, had an insatiable desire for the word... went to bible school for Bible degree... lived literally like a dream relationship with God for 2 years then He said quit school.... I was like But I am just about to get to all the Bible classes... the whole reason I am here. I foolishly told Him No (I don't recommend that at all lol) and 20 years later I am FINALLY fully coming out of this loooooong detour! I do now recognize of course that in His sovereignty and wisdom He did and is working it all for good but wow, truly I am a living testimony that if you want a hot mess of religious confusion then opt for the religious training of men over God....! :dsunny: :banana: :iagree: :dsunny:

[Ross]

" If you want a hot mess of religious confusion then opt for the religious training of men over God...."

Pretty good summary.
Paul said in Galations 1;11-17 " I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me IS NOT OF HUMAN ORIGIN.
For I did NOT RECEIVE IT FROM MAN, nor was I taught it;
instead I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how intensely I used to persecute the church of God and was trying to destroy it. And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many my own age in the entire nation being extremely zealous for the traditions of my ancestors.
But when God,
Who had set me apart from my mothers womb and called me by His grace,
was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the gentiles,
I DID NOT CONSULT WITH FLESH AND BLOOD,
nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me,
but I went way into Arabia and returned again to Damascus."

Great summary by Paul of the power of the  gospel.

[rosered]

  Beautiful revealing of Christ  working in your heart!! :HeartThrob: God is good and  patient and kind towards us all   

  We sure  need more of Him     :dsunny:  the Light at the end of the tunnel    [vision ]

[darryl]

I can't remember the actual study but the gist of it was that the longer people attended Bible college or theological seminary, the LESS likely they were to believe God existed and that the Bible could be trusted for spiritual information. :dontknow:

i attended bible college and thats about right

[darryl]

But, a word of caution. The Universalist may say that Rev. 19.3 is not eternal because it is the description of smoke from the City of Babylon. But, the judgment that is cast upon her is only the beginning of the eternal punishment of the wicked, indicated in the statement that the smoke from her goes up forever and ever.

The phrase is always speaking of eternal duration.

wrong...Babylon is described as a CITY with streets etc not a group of people...the CITY OF BABYLON cannot literally burn forever so the phrase does not mean eternal in Rev 19 vs 3

[marie glen]

But, a word of caution. The Universalist may say that Rev. 19.3 is not eternal because it is the description of smoke from the City of Babylon. But, the judgment that is cast upon her is only the beginning of the eternal punishment of the wicked, indicated in the statement that the smoke from her goes up forever and ever.

The phrase is always speaking of eternal duration.

wrong...Babylon is described as a CITY with streets etc not a group of people...the CITY OF BABYLON cannot literally burn forever so the phrase does not mean eternal in Rev 19 vs 3

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

?Aion? / eon

And considering all pertaining scripture, the smoke of Babylon?s burning will rise up age to age / forever, in the memories of all.. Surely?! The end result of straying/imperfection which is not only entropy, a slow gehenna crucibLe that removes the chaff from the kernel of wheat, but is also an abyss of potential.

And there?s this! Not easy to see in 95 CE or thereabouts, but the three mentions of lake of fire are at huge fiery events, first one at armageddon. Isaiah 24:20, Rev.10:4 (But also Ps.91,46,23, Rev.7:15-17).
      And Mt.13:30 the wheat and (still) tares is Rev.16:14-15-16/armageddon battle, and the door (to serving called reigning) of Mt.25:1-13, the ten bridesmaids parable. (During the Sabbath millennium and the following GWT judgement/full discernment day/aion, all chaff off completed on the quote, 8th day, quote, the last great day (Lev.23:36, Jn.7:37)

1st outline of God?s plan/administration of the ages: the week plus one: from the highly accelerated big bang into the universe as is, but like a clock not running.. and theN, set in motion; and a 2nd outline, the Spring, then Fall holy days of Lev.23, as the Lord?s first and second advents. His long second advent as a full scope version of his so brief first one, but with helpers serving called reigning.. crowns of Life, not metal.