Now, most of the time you can shrug Beloved57's (over at City-Data) posts off. But this point was interesting. Obviously though, it doesn't prove "aionion" must mean "eternal," but what do you think it means in this case?
2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (New International Version)
16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal (aionios).
2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (Young's Literal Translation)
16wherefore, we faint not, but if also our outward man doth decay, yet the inward is renewed day by day;
17for the momentary light matter of our tribulation, more and more exceedingly an age-during weight of glory doth work out for us --
18we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen [are] temporary, but the things not seen [are] age-during (aionios).
It seems to be suggesting something eternal rather than temporary.
PS: I accidently posted this in Word Studies which is why I'm posting it in over here.
I posted this in reply to Beloved57, because it seems to be what came to me whilst I thought about it:
QuoteActually, all this would really say is this: things we can see only last temporarily within this age, but the unseen things last throughout the entire age. Which is true. God definitely lasts for an age. But he also lasts eternally.
Another note: Paul may have been talking about the age-lasting glory/life that would be the result of their persevering through their temporal and seeable troubles. You can't see glory and life, but it definitely lasts for an age, that is, beyond your temporal ordeals. As opposed to being able to see your current situation/troubles/physical problems, which are only temporary.
Thank God if it's an accurate interpretation. :)
Matthew 13:21
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time (Gr. proskairos). When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. (New International Version)
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. (King James Version)
Mark 4:17
But they have no roots. So they last only a short time (Gr. proskairos). They quickly fall away from the faith when trouble or suffering comes because of the message. (NIRV)
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. (King James Version)
Hebrews 11:25
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season (Gr. proskairos);... (King James Version)
He chose to be ill-treated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. (New International Version)
In all these occurrences proskairos rather seems to mean a short time, a season or a while. An online dictionary, it seems to be the Liddell Scott; gives the following meaning for proskairos proskairoV for a season, temporary
"season" is defined in an English dictionary: A period of time not very long; a while; a time.
Before I turn to 2 Corinthians 4:18, remember Mr. Darby wrote, "But this does not alter the meaning of the word: aiõnios is properly the opposite to proskairos."
But what is the opposite of a period of time not very long? Of course eternity would be the opposite of such a period, but also one or several long ages, or even a single century would be the full contrast to a short season, while the contrast of eternity is time and not a season.
The verse of interest is:
2 Corinthians 4:18
μὴ σκοπούντων ἡμῶν τὰ βλεπόμενα ἀλλὰ τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα τὰ γὰρ βλεπόμενα πρόσκαιρα, τὰ δὲ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια.
mê skopountõn êmõn ta blepomena alla ta mê blepomena ta gar blepomena proskaira, ta de mê blepomena aiõnia.
For tho thingis that ben seyn, ben but durynge for a schort tyme; but tho thingis that ben not seyn, ben euerlastynge. (Wycliffe)
So we don't spend all our time looking at what we can see. Instead, we look at what we can't see. What can be seen lasts only a short time. But what can't be seen will last forever. (NIRV)
As I said proskairos is not time itself, this would be chronos, but rather a (shorter) period as already shown, you can contrast strict opposites or things that are related to each other, you can contrast a lake with a desert and you can contrast a lake with an ocean; one might suppose here is contrasted time with timeless eternity in a Platonic sense, but you can also contrast something which lasts only a short present period with something that is yet future and will last for ages, as I already said.
If Paul would have contrasted time with eternity I think he would have written,
For the things which are seen are 'chronikos' (temporary, in the sense of pertaining to time); but the things which are not seen are eternal (pertaining to eternity)."
But Paul did not use cronikoV [chronikos] the adjective of cronoV [chronos], time, which I think he would have done, if he had intended to contrast time with eternity here, but he used proskairoV [proskairos], which is not related to time (chronos) itself, but rather means a season as shown. I think this verse proofs in no way that aiõnios should be understood as infinite, because it does simply not say so. It might be the perfect definition of Hebrew olam which means something like hidden time as far as I know:
...for the things which are seen are for a [short present] season (Gr. proskairos),
but the things [yet future] which are not seen [yet; and with an unavowed end]
are lasting for (an) [long future] age(s) (Gr. aiõnios)...
that was my interpretation of it
btw. in Philemon 15.16 aiõnios is contrasted with an hour õra
an hour and infinity are hardly proper contrasts, but a short and a long finite duration would be
For perhaps for this he was separated for an hour (õra), that you might receive him eternally (aiõnios); no longer as a slave, but beyond a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, and how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.
Green's literal
do you think aiõnios refers here to lifetime only? I would tend to say so.
Hey Sven, thanks for the reply! :bigGrin:
Quotebtw. in Philemon 15.16 aiõnios is contrasted with an hour õra
an hour and infinity are hardly proper contrasts, but a short and a long finite duration would be
For perhaps for this he was separated for an hour (õra), that you might receive him eternally (aiõnios); no longer as a slave, but beyond a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, and how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.
Green's literal
do you think aiõnios refers here to lifetime only? I would tend to say so.
I could see aionios, in such a case, to just mean life time. Especially when you consider that a brother won't be with you forever, but only as long as you or he lives.
Hi Tim,
I specifically wrote about that too: http://mercifultruth.com/eternity-detailedstudy.htm
Quote from: Seth on July 13, 2009, 11:48:43 PM
Hi Tim,
I specifically wrote about that too: http://mercifultruth.com/eternity-detailedstudy.htm
Nice article Seth, thanks! :happy3:
Quote from: Tim B on July 13, 2009, 08:38:25 AM
Now, most of the time you can shrug Beloved57's (over at City-Data) posts off. But this point was interesting. Obviously though, it doesn't prove "aionion" must mean "eternal," but what do you think it means in this case?
2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (New International Version)
16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal (aionios).
2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (Young's Literal Translation)
16wherefore, we faint not, but if also our outward man doth decay, yet the inward is renewed day by day;
17for the momentary light matter of our tribulation, more and more exceedingly an age-during weight of glory doth work out for us --
18we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen [are] temporary, but the things not seen [are] age-during (aionios).
It seems to be suggesting something eternal rather than temporary.
PS: I accidently posted this in Word Studies which is why I'm posting it in over here.
Hi Tim. Aionios just means a age-enduring. It does NOT specifiy an END point but rather a CONTINUING POINT. The END point is CONCEALED from us. Some people say that aionios is temporary and I say that is not true. Others say that aionios is FOREVERMORE or ETERNAL, and I say that is NOT true either. The word has no reference to an end point. It only tells you of a duration that continues from the context of the duration in which is is specified.
So to say that we will receive AIONIOS life, means that we will receive Life that CONTINUES BEYOND the existing age. So for something to be aionios it
may indeed exhibit qualities that are different than those things which only exist in the present aion (age) but I don't believe AIONIOS specifically addresses that. I only believe that it exhibits a duration (end point not specified) that CONTINUES from the perspective of the current duration (in the context in which it is used).
Paul