Author Topic: The numbers of God  (Read 7972 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2011, 07:18:13 PM »
Revelation 1:5 calls Jesus "the ruler [prince] of the kings of the earth." The Greek word translated "ruler" (or prince) is Archon. This word appears 37 times in the Greek New Testament. In biblical numerology, the number 37 means "Christ as the Word made flesh." In ancient times they did not use our modern numbers, which we call Arabic numerals. The Greeks and Hebrews used the letters of their alphabet, just as the Romans used "Roman numerals." Since the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, every letter used in the original texts is also a number.

For instance, if you take the Greek name for Jesus, which is Iesous, and add up the number of his name, the letters total 888, which is also 37 x 24. The number 37 is Christ as the Word made flesh, and 24 is the number associated with priesthood. Hence, the mathematical and spiritual meaning of Iesous (Jesus) shows us that He is the Word made flesh and is also the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

It is also significant that the Greek word Christos (Christ) has a numeric value of 1480, which is 37 x 40.

In the Hebrew language, the numeric value for "the Messiah" is 37 x 25. The number 25 indicates full salvation, for it is 5 x 5, and five is the number of grace.

In the New Testament there are two passages that specifically mention the Messiah. John 4:25 says, "Messiah is coming, the one called Christ." The numeric value of this passage is 37 x 100. The number 100 is a number of fullness or completeness.

Again, in John 1:41 we find the phrase, "We have found the Messiah." Its numeric value is 37 x 42. The number 42 is a number associated with the coming of Christ (after a time of trial or tribulation). For instance, the Bible records 41 encampments in the wilderness under Moses. The 42nd stop was in the plains of Jericho under Joshua (Jesus), ending their wilderness journey. Hence, "we have found the Messiah" carries a numeric value of 37 x 42, for it indicates the completion of a search for Joshua, or Jesus.

Christ is called in 2 Corinthians 4:4, "the Image of God." This phrase in Greek [eichon theou] has a numeric value of 37 x 37. The full phrase, "Christ, who is the image of God," has a numeric value of 3885, which is 37 x 105.

The phrase, "this is My beloved Son" used in 2 Peter 1:17 has a numeric value of 37 x 111, or 37 x 37 x 3.

The phrase, "the Son of God" used in Galatians 2:20 has a numeric value of 37 x 66. The number 37 is the Word made flesh, and 66 is the number of man. The combination shows with mathematical precision that Jesus is the Son of God who came to earth in the likeness of man.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #126 on: May 29, 2011, 05:54:48 PM »
 :cloud9: :thumbsup: Which also proves the Word has a heavenly author......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #127 on: May 29, 2011, 06:31:09 PM »
Quote from: ww
Revelation 1:5 calls Jesus "the ruler [prince] of the kings of the earth." The Greek word translated "ruler" (or prince) is Archon. This word appears 37 times in the Greek New Testament. In biblical numerology, the number 37 means "Christ as the Word made flesh."

This is the first time I've noticed this phrase--Jesus Christ who is...the prince of the kings of the earth.   Are you thinking he received this title when he became the Word made flesh?  I'm thinking he is the prince of all those who call him Lord, that is, we are the kings of the earth and he is our prince [archon, ruler].

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #128 on: May 31, 2011, 04:25:43 PM »
Wings, 37 is featured on whatabeginning.com. 

In other number news

The number 67 appears 3 times in the bible.  All in Neh 7. 
7:18 the descendants of Adonikam, 667;
7:19 the descendants of Bigvai, 2,067;
7:72What the rest of the people gave amounted to 20,000 gold drachmas, 2,000 silver minas, and 67 priestly garments.

Adonikam= The Lord Arose
Bigvai      = In my body
67 priestly garments

Neh:
7:66 The entire group numbered 42,360, 7:67 not counting their 7,337 male and female servants. They also had 245 male and female singers. 7:68 They had 736 horses, 245 mules, 7:69 (7:68) 27  435 camels, and 6,720 donkeys. 7:70 Some of the family leaders 28  contributed to the work. The governor contributed to the treasury 1,000 gold drachmas, 29  50 bowls, and 530 priestly garments. 7:71 Some of the family leaders gave to the project treasury 20,000 gold drachmas and 2,200 silver minas. 7:72 What the rest of the people gave amounted to 20,000 gold drachmas, 2,000 silver minas, and 67 priestly garments.
7:73 The priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, some of the people, the temple servants, and all the rest of Israel lived in their cities.


I don't put much weight into verse numbers, since they are not original.  just a fun note there 7:67 relating to 7337

Also 22,000 (gold drachmas and silver minas)  is the number of levites, number of cattle given to Job at the end. number of cattle sacrificed at consecration of 1st temple.
22 is the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet, and number of books in the OT in its original ordering.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #129 on: May 31, 2011, 04:55:01 PM »
I don't put much weight into verse numbers, since they are not original.
True. But then nothing of NT is original because it was written Hebrew....  :mblush:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Miriam

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #130 on: May 31, 2011, 11:21:05 PM »
I don't put much weight into verse numbers, since they are not original.
True. But then nothing of NT is original because it was written Hebrew....  :mblush:
Er. Yes.

Forgive my utter ignorance, and I know it's not really the subject of this thread, but why is it people study Greek when it's my understanding that Jesus spoke Hebrew? Was the New Testament originally in that language? These probably sound really basic questions to most people here.  :mblush: Do feel free to just point me to a few threads and tell me to shut up.  :mblush:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #131 on: May 31, 2011, 11:37:06 PM »
People study Greek because there are no Hebrew NT manuscripts preserved. (to my best knowledge) Tiny summary. Church fathers wrote that they had at least a few books in Hebrew. If the Greek is translated 1 on 1 to Hebrew the verses become more fluent and meaningful.

Please continue here: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/the_new_testament_was_written_hebrew_not_greek_9072.0.html
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #132 on: June 01, 2011, 12:11:43 AM »
Yes, also, there's really debate (uncertainty) about the topic.  Some say it was one way, some the other.  Some say Jesus spoke mainly Aramaic, some say Aramaic and Greek, some say all 3 (including Hebrew).  There are "scholars" on all sides of the issue.  I guess for me, bottom line is 2 things;  the Greek are the oldest manuscripts (generally) we have (New Testament), and I've read some (what I consider) reliable information that says the common folk in Jesus' day spoke Koine Greek.  (The Christian Bible is translated from that).   :2c:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #133 on: June 01, 2011, 02:46:33 AM »
 :cloud9: Yes, there is a book extant of Matthew in Hebrew. Sorry I don't have time to find a link, but others have been mentioned in other ancient manuscripts as well.
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline jabcat

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #134 on: June 01, 2011, 03:05:27 AM »
Some of the opinions;

Several similar to this;   The New Testament was written in Hebrew, and must be understood from a Hebrew/Judaic mindset.  Not doing so is fruitless study and leads to error;

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/matstudy/mat3b.htm


Then these;


"Many scholars view the [Hebrew] text as a mediaeval translation from the Greek text of the Gospel of Matthew, as well as being the likely source of all later Hebrew versions of Matthew prior to the 20th century." 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbinical_translations_of_Matthew




The New Testament was not written in Hebrew, but Greek;  "refutation of the baseless claim made by Sacred Name Movement teachers of an original Hebrew New Testament."

http://www.sacrednamemovement.com/StudyHEight.htm




"I have been concerned about certain forces within the Hebrew Roots movement and where this is leading. While understanding the Hebrew foundation of Christianity is something all Christians should pursue, there is something sinister going on below the surface. There seems to be an attempt to draw Christians away from the simplicity of the Gospel back under the Old Covenant (Law) into Judaism. Eventually, I believe the result for those who are absorbed into this movement will be forsaking the only begotton Son of God for another "Yeshua" who was just a Jewish sage. The destination seems to be the same as the Jesus Seminar, it is just arrived at via another route. I realize that this is a tough statement. But, after interaction with several who have been involved in this movement for some time, I am convinced it is accurate.
One of the subtle attacks on the Christian Faith comes from the notion that the New Testament was not written in Greek, but in "Hebrew." This may seem benign at first, but it is not. It is an attack on the reliability of the text of your Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted by Greeks, as is charged by some, there is no longer a standard of truth. The Protestant cry of "Sola Scriptura" is meaningless unless we have a historically stable and reliable text. Once the New Testament itself is discredited, the rope tying your boat to the dock has been severed, and you are bound to be "carried about with every wind of doctrine." "We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away." [Heb. 2:1].

No ancient Hebrew manuscript of the New Testament has ever been found from the early centuries of Christianity. The oldest are Greek. The oldest papyrus fragment [a portion of the Gospel of John] dates back to the late second century. So the manuscript evidence alone weighs heavily against the concept of Hebrew "originals." The proponents of the Hebrew New Testament claim that internal evidence suggests the original language of the text was "Hebrew." Actually, the "Hebrew" of the Torah was not widely spoken at the time of Christ. It was the language of the Jewish scholars, but not widely spoken by common Jewish folk. It was like the "Latin" of the day. It had long since gone out of common use since the Babylonian captivity. In Israel of the first century, Aramaic [or "Chaldee"] was fairly common, which is similar to Hebrew. But, this was the language picked up during the Babylonian captivity, which found its way into Jewish life. [There are a few parts of the Old Testament written in Aramaic, parts of Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezra]. So, lets not begin with a false impression that true "Hebrew" of the Torah is even a possible candidate for the original documents of the New Testament. It is not."

http://www.pfrs.org/jewish/hr08.html
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #135 on: June 01, 2011, 08:24:27 AM »
Please continue here: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/the_new_testament_was_written_hebrew_not_greek_9072.0.html
:punish:  :talkangry: :spank:
Plz keep teh numbers thread clean. (I have a thought what Koine Greek really is)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #136 on: June 06, 2011, 08:53:50 PM »
YLTExodus 27
16 `And for the gate of the court a covering of twenty cubits , blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen, work of an embroiderer; their pillars four, their sockets four.

YLT1 Kings 6
16 And he buildeth the twenty cubits on the sides of the house with ribs of cedar, from the floor unto the walls; and he buildeth for it within, for the oracle, for the holy of holies.


עשׂרים + אמּה ==> Gementria value 666
 :mshock: ??
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #137 on: June 07, 2011, 02:51:14 PM »
 :cloud9:  Funny..... :happygrin:

The sides of Noah's ark are the same as the Hebrew word for ribs, Eve was formed from a rib, and it's the inner court realm in type, where the table of shewbread is. The rib is curved, a symbol of the soul (because of Eve), and like a boomerang, "she" is returning to His side as a covering (as the ribs cover the HEART, the heart is Christ).

This is why His side was pierced (veil rent), to prepare the way of return for the Bride. Jeremiah talks about a woman shall encompass (become a covering for) a man.

Satan speaks to and thru Eve (the soul). My  :2c:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #139 on: July 20, 2012, 09:05:37 PM »
Deuteronomy is Devarim in Hebrew.

Devarim  in Hebraic understanding means the "mouth" of  Torah; a summarizing all that has happened before in "the main body."

Another word for this book in Hebrew is Suf Debar last words.  It contains Moshe's last words, his farewell discourse and a song to Israel.
 
Agriculturally, Devarim/Deuteronomy means to point back to a food source, or head of the house.

Devarim is:  Dalet-bet-resh = Devar (word).  Dalet being the door, bet/resh is bar, the son. Debar, The Word is the door through which the Son comes.

Deuteronomy = Devarim = The Word is the door through which the Son comes.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #140 on: July 30, 2012, 06:14:58 PM »
Deuteronomy is Devarim in Hebrew.

Devarim  in Hebraic understanding means the "mouth" of  Torah; a summarizing all that has happened before in "the main body."

Another word for this book in Hebrew is Suf Debar last words.  It contains Moshe's last words, his farewell discourse and a song to Israel.
 
Agriculturally, Devarim/Deuteronomy means to point back to a food source, or head of the house.

Devarim is:  Dalet-bet-resh = Devar (word).  Dalet being the door, bet/resh is bar, the son. Debar, The Word is the door through which the Son comes.

Deuteronomy = Devarim = The Word is the door through which the Son comes.



 :thumbsup:  Beautiful.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2013, 04:58:45 PM »
:cloud9: I can see 50 as being the number of the church, ie. Pentecost, plus 1 being Him.  :dontknow:
In a way 50=8

The 49 days leading to Pentecost were:
- Regular 7 day weeks
- 7 Sabbaths

They sometimes were just called 7 days referring to 7 Sabbaths which are the most important days of the week. (just like some say the 70 weeks of Daniel are 70 Sabbath years)

8 is often viewed as a new beginning.
Basically Pentecost was too.

Obviously that means Pentecost was on Sunday and weeks were in sync with regular Sabbath. Counting back that pinpoints resurrection, wavesheaf etc.
The result of that is that some doctrines (like wednesday, thurday, friday crucifixion) are 'proven' wrong. So you won't have to look hard to find articles claiming otherwise :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2013, 08:25:58 PM »
Mighty (waves)
Son (heir)
Head, as in leader, number one, etc.
Reveal (look, breath)

Together it spells Menorah.
The separate letters spell something like: Mighty son first revealed.


Spells Jesus.

The letters have 7 flame like tops. 7 flames of the Menorah.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #144 on: October 31, 2013, 03:43:03 AM »

Let's take a peek a Genesis 1:1 (not what we read a several words is just one word in Hebrew)

In the beginning = 913
created = 203
God = 86
Aleph Tav = 401 ---> The mysterious untranslated 2 letters
heaven = 395
and = 407
earth = 296

String those digits together:  91320386401395407296
9^3 + 1^3 + 3^3 + 2^3 ........ 6^3 = 3826
3826 is a permutation of 2368 (Jesus Christ)

I got to this thread very late, but I am very interested in this sort of thing.  I looked at "The mysterious untranslated 2 letters," and gave it some thought.  It's not really mysterious at all!  Aleph is the first letter in the Hebrew Alephbet, and Tav is the last.  So, we could translate the verse as:  "In the beginning created God first and last [alpha & omega [Jesus]] heaven and earth." 

We could also translate and understand Genesis 1:1 in this way:

In the beginning [TIME]

God created [ENERGY]

the heavens [SPACE]

and the earth [MATTER].

There it is folks, in the first verse of a Book most think is unscientific, are all the concepts of modern physics:  space/time and matter/energy.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 03:57:20 AM by Lazarus Short »
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The numbers of God
« Reply #145 on: October 31, 2013, 09:27:15 AM »
Laz can we discuss Alev Tav in this thread? http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/the-fourth-word/msg122084/#msg122084


Quote
We could also translate and understand Genesis 1:1 in this way:
In the beginning [TIME]
God created [ENERGY]
the heavens [SPACE]
and the earth [MATTER].
I agree with that. I have it in my spreadsheet that shows groups of 4 that aligns colors, covenants, "things", "trinity", etc
I'm just not sure about the correct order of this set of 4.
Quote
There it is folks, in the first verse of a Book most think is unscientific, are all the concepts of modern physics:  space/time and matter/energy.
Maybe also the super supersymmetry? (but that's a set of 5)



If you like that sorta stuff you likely also like the definition of Pi  :winkgrin:
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/Pi_In_The_Bible.html#.UnH2UXDV78k
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...