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[LoveDefeatsEvil]

Perhaps God is choosing to show UR to certain people, but for those that can't fathom how this is true, these "secrets" will be a surprise gift for them when we all see the Lord in person.

Just what I feel within my spirit.  :trampoline:

[Molly]

YOU BECOME LIKE THE GOD YOU SERVE!!!  Under the statute known as de heretico comburendo they burned Christians at the stake in England from the beginning of the 1400's for 200 years and England was the latecomer, it was even longer in the rest of Europe.  The Roman Catholics of the Inquisition said to them that they only, "Consign to temporal flames that you may be saved from eternal flames."  To know the Ave Maria, the "Our Father," or "The 10 Commandments" in English was sufficient proof of heresy.  To possess parts of the Bible in English was to be a heretic.  This did sometimes mean execution.  At the stake, they would put the English Bible portions under the chin of the "heretic" and light them aflame.  These are well documented in various records that survive, some published and cited in books I recently read by Clara H. Stuart dealing with the life of John Wycliffe and after, to about the middle of the 1500's.

Death could be the result of even association with such people as believed that after consecration the bread and wine remained, or that each predestined man is a priest and able to administer the sacraments without episcopal ordination, or that priests who live evilly hold the keys of hell rather than of heaven and that no Christian is obliged to take count of the censures of such men.  Those holding these ideas were deemed worthy of death and those that showed kindness to them could be executed.  These are just sample mentions of the crimes for which the Roman Church authorities tortured and killed people.

I also could get into the original 8 volumes of Foxe's Book of Martyrs, The Acts and Monuments, 6,000 pages witten in 1563 on CD's included with other wonderful material (available at www.avpublications.com ) under the title In Awe of Thy Word.  Too much to go into here.  Just one example:  the merchant who could not read.  He had framed on his wall an illuminated 10 commandments he was proud of.  Too bad it was with the protestant numbering rather than the Roman.  He and his family was executed.

It's amazing to me, and a testament to God, that any good people have survived in this world, and the Bible itself, given the unholy tenacity of the musterion anomia--'the promotion of sin by lawful authorities', plotted in secret by its initiates. 

[Molly]

A:  Quite the opposite. Since we don't think μάλιστα implies any universalism, but rather is specifically REFUTING universalism (since Jesus is called the savior of those who believe[!] and not just of all humanity), we're attempting to remove the taking sides that takes place if one renders μάλιστα as "especially" in 1 Timothy 4:10. Also, Paul's use of μάλιστα is taking sides! He's saying that Jesus is the savior of a specific subset of "all humanity" (πάντων ἀνθρώπων), that is, he's the savior of "believers" (πιστῶν).

So they used "that is" because "specially/especially" leaves a possible interpretation for UR. That isn't taking sides?
Anyway I would like to read some article about the Greek word.
Or an explanation that shows that even with "that is" the UR meaning still stands.

Oh I get it, Jesus is the Saviour of all human beings, that is, those who believe.

The rest are not human.

[jabcat]

Perhaps God is choosing to show UR to certain people, but for those that can't fathom how this is true, these "secrets" will be a surprise gift for them when we all see the Lord in person.

Just what I feel within my spirit.  :trampoline:

I like that  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

An interesting thing to do is to go to Biblegateway and look at the verse.  Out of 20 English translations, by far the translation is "especially", and a time or two "mostly" or "most of all". 

Rereading an old thread that sadly died.
I think it's not completly consistant to compare things this way to back up your/our claims. Because we don't do the same with 'for ever' translations either. An article (by Gary?) about hell leaving the Bible sorta claims new insights in translation cause that word translated differently. Newer=better. But for ISV we suddenly claim older=better because that fits our agenda.

[WhiteWings]

can I read the bible mentioned in this topic, online?

Very late reply Sven, but it is also avaible as an e-Sword module.
I don't know how to look up the version number of a Bible in e-Sword but the file stamp show 2001.
If you want the modules (isv.bbl and isv.map) and you can find 'em I can upload them somewhere for you.