Hi Everyone,
I've been wondering why does the bible often call people things? In our day to call a person a thing would be degrading and insulting. Yet, this is done in every translation I've read. It is often very clear by the context that "things" are meant to be people. Yet, it doesn't always pertain to people. Sometimes it does mean things. Sometimes you can't really tell by the context if it is speaking about things or people. I believe when Jesus said , "With God all things are possible "He was speaking about people being saved. I wish that I could prove that...however I know somethings are not meant for us to do. Also, where it says. The Father did not spare His Son but gave Him up for us, will He not also give us ALL THINGS. I know many of you are very well studied in Hebrew and Greek and know much about Scripture and the bible, so I thought this would be the best place to learn more about this.
Quote from: Caffus on June 04, 2016, 05:03:46 PM
Hi Everyone,
I've been wondering why does the bible often call people things? In our day to call a person a thing would be degrading and insulting. Yet, this is done in every translation I've read. It is often very clear by the context that "things" are meant to be people. Yet, it doesn't always pertain to people. Sometimes it does mean things. Sometimes you can't really tell by the context if it is speaking about things or people. I believe when Jesus said , "With God all things are possible "He was speaking about people being saved. I wish that I could prove that...however I know somethings are not meant for us to do. Also, where it says. The Father did not spare His Son but gave Him up for us, will He not also give us ALL THINGS. I know many of you are very well studied in Hebrew and Greek and know much about Scripture and the bible, so I thought this would be the best place to learn more about this.
I LOVE it that you have also noted that sign , same as I once searched out ...
all things , as peoples being called ''trees of knowledge of good and evil or trees of life .
seas , sheep , goats , lambs , flowers etc ...
Even the Holy thing / child / one is called the son of God .... Luke 1
King James Bible
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The angel replied to her:" The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore,
the holy One to be born will be called the Son of God.
International Standard Version
The angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come over you, and the power of the Most High will surround you. Therefore,
the child will be holy and will be called the Son of God.
NET Bible
The angel replied, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore
the child to be born will be holy; he will be called the Son of God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Angel answered and said to her, "The Spirit of Holiness shall come and the power of The Highest shall rest upon you,
therefore he who shall be begotten in you shall be holy and he shall be called the Son of God."
Jesus Christ being the first BORN of many brethren proves to us all , just HOW it happens and is done , a mystery revealed ..
Romans 8 God Works In All Things!!!
28And we know that God
works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30And those He predestined He also called, those He called He also justified, those He justified He also glorified.... :dsunny:
Quote from: Caffus on June 04, 2016, 05:03:46 PM
Hi Everyone,
I've been wondering why does the bible often call people things? In our day to call a person a thing would be degrading and insulting. Yet, this is done in every translation I've read. It is often very clear by the context that "things" are meant to be people. Yet, it doesn't always pertain to people. Sometimes it does mean things. Sometimes you can't really tell by the context if it is speaking about things or people. I believe when Jesus said , "With God all things are possible "He was speaking about people being saved. I wish that I could prove that...however I know somethings are not meant for us to do. Also, where it says. The Father did not spare His Son but gave Him up for us, will He not also give us ALL THINGS. I know many of you are very well studied in Hebrew and Greek and know much about Scripture and the bible, so I thought this would be the best place to learn more about this.
:Chinscratch: ya got me to thinking.. and curious..
Matthew 19:26
New International Version
Jesus looked at them and said, "
With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
"all things" - G3956 (if you don't mind, I'll just paste
the whole page, pun intended? :laughing7: )
- http://studybible.info/strongs/G3956 (http://studybible.info/strongs/G3956)
LSJ Gloss:
πᾶς
all, the whole ....( :Chinscratch: I think you're onto something Caffus)
Dodson:
πᾶς
all, the whole, every kind of.
Strong's:
πᾶς
all, any,
every, the whole
Derivation: including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word;
KJV Usage: all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Thayer:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
All
Every, Everyone (man), Everything
Whole (made), Wholly, Wholesome
πᾱς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole
===================================
Romans 8:32
New International Version
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
G3956 - same as above - http://studybible.info/strongs/G3956 (http://studybible.info/strongs/G3956)
:Peace2: Amen!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Amen Rosie!! We are so very, very blessed! Each and every one of us.. (and one day.. the whole.. every one of us humans).. :thumbsup: :cloud9: :girlheart: ...because He is SO good!!
Many times when you read "all things", "all", every man" everyone", etc it is "pas" or one of its forms.
This an excerpt from an article on my website.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all(pas) creation. For by Him all things(pas) were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things(pas) have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things(pas), and in Him all things(pas) hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything(pas). For it was the Father's good pleasure for all(pas) the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things(pas) to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things(ta) on earth or things in heaven. Colossians 1:15-20 NASB
things is is "ta". but whever you see "all things" or "everyman" is its simply "pas." You would think yuou would see "ta" there, but you don't. In all the verses we know as UR proof texts is is only "pas". In other words the only proper TRANSLATION is simply and only "all" or "every". Anything else is not a translation, it is an interpretation, even a paraphrase..
The word pas is an all inclusive word. The only way to modify pas is to couple it with a sub-category like, "all the figs in the basket" . This is a particular subset of figs and it is defined by all(pas) as in "every single one and all together" of the figs in the basket. If you were to say "all figs", eliminating the descriptive subset, in a statement such as "all figs have seeds" or "all figs grow on trees" the word pas means every single fig and all figs in existence, inclusively and without exception. Paul uses this kind of terminology in Romans 11:36, Ephesians1:9-11 and many other places, but in Colossians chapter one he really gets comprehensive in explaining what the "all" includes and how it is "gathered into one in Christ". Paul clearly states that the all includes:
All things He created in heaven and earth. (repeating the Romans 11:36 injunction that all things are created "through Him and for Him.") We know from John 1:1-10 and Hebrews 1:1-3 that nothing came into being that was not made by Him and that God created "all things "through Jesus Christ".
All things that He is before. We know from John chapter 1 that He was in the beginning with God. Since He created all things He must therefore be before everything that was ever made.
All things that "hold together in Him". We know from Hebrews chapter 1 that "all things hold together by the power of His word".
All things over which He has the "first place"(preeminence). We know from Ephesians 4:10 that, "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." Here "might fill" is one word, "pleroo" the verb form of "pleroma" from Ephesians Chapter one- it means "make replete" or "complete" or "satisfy".
For so it pleased(eudokia- the same word from Ephesians 1:9) the Father to make "all fulness" or, "pas pleroma", dwell in Him........and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
(Col 1:20)
Paul is emphatic and thorough here . No reasonable mind can evade the conclusion that whatever Paul means by reconciliation- it will be completed in "all things" though the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. As it is written in 1 John2:1,2
What is tragicly funny is, the translators have interpreted their opinions into the scriptures wherever "pas" is used in the scriptures related to restoration and reconciliation, adding "things" because it suits a concept that fits their theology. Using "every" where it suits there interpretation and everyman" in another, as if the little word "pas" could possibly have all those different meanings. I think it a more devastating error than either the mistranslation of aion(forever) or sheol(hell).
Thank you, so much all of your responses are very helpful. Yes, Rose our Lord showed this to both of us. :friendstu:
I pinned the Strongs bible page too. EW, it hurts my heart to see all the ways man has mangled the scriptures and how so many believe the lies as if they are God Himself speaking so they will not allow themselves to question anything they read in their bible...even though many times they cant understand it. When we try to reason with them about it we are often rejected as if we are of the devil. Yet, I know our Lord has a purpose for it all and His love is long suffering so we suffer with Him, but at the same time we our comforted knowing that in His time and way..He makes ALL beautiful. :dsunny:
Thanks to you all... Caffus , Marie and John ... :dsunny:
Amen!! ,, all is perfectly beautiful in Gods own time and Wisdom .. :HeartThrob:
I do believe you are right that many are still in the mindset that it is up to them to some how save themselves and others that old time religion that
the law of Moses could not do , the law and prophets to me, point to sin and expose it for each and everyone of us , and to use the law lawfully it is to prove to us we are sinners and need Gods saving grace and to depend fully and completely on God in every way to save us and save all ....
I gave up trying to save myself and others long ago , just failure after failure .... when JESUS COME TO TELL US ALL , if you broke one law you broke them all ..
That I saw as impossible for man to do , but with God ''ALL THINGS '' are possible ,,, AMEN MARIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :iagree:
Love God first and love everyone as you do your own selves , considering the LORD and how He should be treated with great reverence and first priority in all things pertaining to your natural and spiritual life , considering one another and treat them all as you would love to be treated , the royal LAW of Love and liberty though Jesus Christ ..
Quote from: Caffus on June 05, 2016, 05:41:40 PM
Thank you, so much all of your responses are very helpful. Yes, Rose our Lord showed this to both of us. :friendstu:
I pinned the Strongs bible page too. EW, it hurts my heart to see all the ways man has mangled the scriptures and how so many believe the lies as if they are God Himself speaking so they will not allow themselves to question anything they read in their bible...even though many times they cant understand it. When we try to reason with them about it we are often rejected as if we are of the devil. Yet, I know our Lord has a purpose for it all and His love is long suffering so we suffer with Him, but at the same time we our comforted knowing that in His time and way..He makes ALL beautiful. :dsunny:
:thumbsup:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 05, 2016, 02:58:34 AM
Many times when you read "all things", "all", every man" everyone", etc it is "pas" or one of its forms.
This an excerpt from an article on my website.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all(pas) creation. For by Him all things(pas) were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things(pas) have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things(pas), and in Him all things(pas) hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything(pas). For it was the Father's good pleasure for all(pas) the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things(pas) to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things(ta) on earth or things in heaven. Colossians 1:15-20 NASB
things is is "ta". but whever you see "all things" or "everyman" is its simply "pas." You would think yuou would see "ta" there, but you don't. In all the verses we know as UR proof texts is is only "pas". In other words the only proper TRANSLATION is simply and only "all" or "every". Anything else is not a translation, it is an interpretation, even a paraphrase..
The word pas is an all inclusive word. The only way to modify pas is to couple it with a sub-category like, "all the figs in the basket" . This is a particular subset of figs and it is defined by all(pas) as in "every single one and all together" of the figs in the basket. If you were to say "all figs", eliminating the descriptive subset, in a statement such as "all figs have seeds" or "all figs grow on trees" the word pas means every single fig and all figs in existence, inclusively and without exception. Paul uses this kind of terminology in Romans 11:36, Ephesians1:9-11 and many other places, but in Colossians chapter one he really gets comprehensive in explaining what the "all" includes and how it is "gathered into one in Christ". Paul clearly states that the all includes:
All things He created in heaven and earth. (repeating the Romans 11:36 injunction that all things are created "through Him and for Him.") We know from John 1:1-10 and Hebrews 1:1-3 that nothing came into being that was not made by Him and that God created "all things "through Jesus Christ".
All things that He is before. We know from John chapter 1 that He was in the beginning with God. Since He created all things He must therefore be before everything that was ever made.
All things that "hold together in Him". We know from Hebrews chapter 1 that "all things hold together by the power of His word".
All things over which He has the "first place"(preeminence). We know from Ephesians 4:10 that, "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." Here "might fill" is one word, "pleroo" the verb form of "pleroma" from Ephesians Chapter one- it means "make replete" or "complete" or "satisfy".
For so it pleased(eudokia- the same word from Ephesians 1:9) the Father to make "all fulness" or, "pas pleroma", dwell in Him........and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
(Col 1:20)
Paul is emphatic and thorough here . No reasonable mind can evade the conclusion that whatever Paul means by reconciliation- it will be completed in "all things" though the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. As it is written in 1 John2:1,2
What is tragicly funny is, the translators have interpreted their opinions into the scriptures wherever "pas" is used in the scriptures related to restoration and reconciliation, adding "things" because it suits a concept that fits their theology. Using "every" where it suits there interpretation and everyman" in another, as if the little word "pas" could possibly have all those different meanings. I think it a more devastating error than either the mistranslation of aion(forever) or sheol(hell).
..awesome 'study'.. thank you!! :banana: :banana:
In Colossians 1:15-20, "pas" is used seven times! The translators put "pas"/"all" in a basket like the basket of figs! :faint:
Amen Rose! About the law.. that is so absolutely true!
And amen, especially to this -
Quote from: rosered on June 05, 2016, 06:04:23 PM
Love God first and love everyone as you do your own selves , considering the LORD and how He should be treated with great reverence and first priority in all things pertaining to your natural and spiritual life , considering one another and treat them all as you would love to be treated , the royal LAW of Love and liberty though Jesus Christ ..
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: "His way is perfect, converting the soul" and the heart.. and mindset.. "God is love" and is a fountain of life which, loving, ever expands into more love.. "His way is perfect" :banana:
Quote from: marie glen on June 07, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Amen Rose! About the law.. that is so absolutely true!
And amen, especially to this -
Quote from: rosered on June 05, 2016, 06:04:23 PM
Love God first and love everyone as you do your own selves , considering the LORD and how He should be treated with great reverence and first priority in all things pertaining to your natural and spiritual life , considering one another and treat them all as you would love to be treated , the royal LAW of Love and liberty though Jesus Christ ..
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: "His way is perfect, converting the soul" and the heart.. and mindset.. "God is love" and is a fountain of life which, loving, ever expands into more love.. "His way is perfect" :banana:
Amen Marie , Can hardly wait till When the perfect has come FULLY :banana: and GOD is all in all :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
1COR 13
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy,
they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledg
e, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
Quote from: marie glen on June 07, 2016, 05:40:22 PM
In Colossians 1:15-20, "pas" is used seven times! The translators put "pas"/"all" in a basket like the basket of figs! :faint:
Yes, exactly.... even tho Paul goes very much out of his way to explain in Col 1:15-20 that all things includes everything that was created by Him, the translators and theologians refuse to acknowledge the straight up fact that "all means all"
When God says he will be "all in all"(1 Cor 15) and that "all will be gathered into one in Christ"(Eph 1) and "for from Him and through Him and to Him are all"(Rom 11) and "that as in Adam all died so also in Christ will all be made alive"(1 Cor 125) and when Jesus says "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all unto me"(John 12:32)....
They do not mean some, a few, all but those who are burning forever, all but those who are annihilated or ANY OTHER SUBSET OF ALL.
HE CLEARLY MEANS ALL. HE WILL BE ALL IN ALL.
Its just gonna take a few ages to get there, thats all :icon_jokercolor: