The difference between condemnation, damnation, judgment and discernment

[eaglesway]

Krino, katakrino, apoleia, heurethsetai, krisis

Matthew 12:42

"The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment(krisis-court, tribunal), and will condemn(katakrino-judge against, sentence) it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here."

krino means to judge objectively, to discern, to weigh out-good and bad. It is the process of evaluating against a set of standards, or reasons, and can be negative or positive, as in

"He was judged to have done well" or "He was judged to have done poorly".

krisis means a tribunal, or court. This is the place or process of rendering a verdict, good or ill, again- based upon a set of standards, or reasons, as in

in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Rom 2:15,16

The KJV Greek lexicon gives the following definition- which is a good one even though the translators didnt abide by it.

Definition
a separating, sundering, separation
a trial, contest
selection
judgment
opinion or decision given concerning anything
  esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong
sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment
the college of judges (a tribunal of seven men in the several cities of Palestine; as distinguished from the Sanhedrin, which had its seat at Jerusalem)
right, justice


Their are four primary parts to this tribunal, court, judgment, selection- and to some extent it is always ongoing

1)the witness of the heart(conscience),
2) the defense of the adjudged actions/attitudes,
3)the accusation against the adjudged actions and attitudes
4)the standard by which said actions are judged(Christ crucified)

krino is the process before krisis, katakrino is the determination after krisis in which the work discerned as evil/not good/futile is estimated in measure for correction and sentenced

In the spiritual realm, in the kingdom of God, under Christ's Lordship, every sentence is ended when the knee bows and the tongue confesses Jesus Christ as Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil 2:5-11)

"For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."(1 John 1:9)

"If you confess with your mouth Jesus Christ as Lord and believe with your heart that God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved(healed, made whole) for everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Rom 10)

Jesus gave a parable about the krino and katakrino in this parable

Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.  "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent. Mt 5:25,26

When your conscience perceives that you are guilty, it is a separate thing from your will to do or not to do a thing. It is also separate from your willingness to be upfront about your unwillingness to admit to it and make it right.

In the kingdom of God, the standard by which all krisis/judgments are made is "Christ crucified", because no greater love has a man than this.

Did we do it for love? The eyes of Jesus will penetrate the veils of our own construction and the quickened sword of His word will draw the truth out into visibility.

Once this process has been completed then a verdict is rendered, according to our response to the exposure.

"Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy." Prov 28:13

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man accomplishes much." James 5:16

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

So in Mt 5:25 we see that humbling oneself and coming clean about faults and sins is the pathway to avoiding further correction. In all of these other verses we also see that humility and honesty- transparency- opens the door to forgiveness, healing and restoration.

1How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
            Whose sin is covered!
      2How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
            And in whose spirit there is no deceit!

      3When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away
            Through my groaning all day long.

      4For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
            My vitality was drained away as with the fever heat of summer.

Selah.
      5I acknowledged my sin to You,
            And my iniquity I did not hide;
            I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD";
            And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Psalm 32

As we can see in this Pslam, the "last penny" that releases one from jail is the humble confession of sin. i have missed the mark. I am responsible for it. My actions or attitudes, measured by the standard of Christ crucified fall short. i bow my knee before you, and confess your Lordship unto the glory of God.

this is the goal of all judgement in the kingdom.

All "apoleia"(perdition,ruination, lostness) is to acheive this goal- "A broken and a contrite heart you will in no way cast out"

All kolassis(correction, punishment) is to acheive this goal, and is the result of OUR OWN actions and attitudes, which will change through the process.

All timoria(vexation, torment) is the result of OUR OWN actions and attitudes and is for the purpose of humbling us unto a point where we will allow God to forgive us, cleanse us and renew us in the "righteousness of the love" of Jesus Christ.

All heurethsetai (exposure) is for the exposure of hidden impediments to our relationship with God and one another.

Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved(lysethetai), being on fire, and the elements(stoicheon) will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

When someone repents the death angel passes over. Applying the blood of a lamb upon the doorpost with hyssop, is a metaphor for the "heart sprinkled clean from an evil conscience" through repentance and faith towards God- opening a "new and living way" through the "rent veil of His flesh"- Christ crucified.

Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.(psalm 51)

this is the same as 1 John 1:9

"For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

and the result is redemption,  reconciliation and restoration

Make me hear joy and gladness,
That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

But in the King James Bible, and in a lesser but significant extent in several other contemporary English translations, all of these words are inconsistently translated and applied, especially in any verses that can be made to appear as confirming torment in actual fire or endless punishment.

When we hear the word "damnation" we likely think of eternal hell with it and we are meant to because that is what the translators believed. But the word which "damnation" originates from is the same word our modern "indemnify" comes from

Dictionary.com gives this definition(as does Webster)

Theology. condemnation to eternal punishment as a consequence of sin.

But the etymology of the word is....

Classical Latin damnum means "damage, cost, expense; penalty, fine", ultimately from a root *dap-. The verb "damnare" in Roman law acquired a legal meaning of "to pronounce judgement upon".

In these original meanings there was no imperative towards death or forever and the damnation could refer to a fine or recompense to the plaintiff or a wide range of penalties short of death.

A good example of this is found in matthew 12:40

In His teaching He was saying: "Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in long robes, and like respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, who devour widows' houses, and for appearance's sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation."NASB

For "krima"(noun form of krino) in Mt 12:40 the NASB uses "condemnation". The KJV uses "damnation" and the NIV uses "judgment".

Greater judgment. Well, how is it greater is everyone suffers it forever? Hotter fire? More "forever"s?

Jesus commands those who did not give to the needy to "Depart from me into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels" in Mt 7:23.

Now you almost have to go to a Dantean vison of a fiery hell with 9 levels of torment! Who will suffer the greatest damnation! What level of hell forever is worse than another level of hell forever! What God conceived of such a thing!

In Matthew 25 Jesus speaks of "aionian kolassis" and "aionian pyr" and He clearly states that it will not be pleasant.

This makes sense because as Hebrews 12:11 says, "No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it."

or 1 Peter 4;12

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation....

or 1 Cor 3;12-15

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

or 2 Peter 3:11

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

In all of these verses, salvation and restoration comes from the judgment. Old worlds pass away so that new worlds can come forth. Old foundations crumble so that new foundations can rise up out of the earth.

In the beginning the earth was without form and void and the Spirit hovered over the face of the deep.

And so it is until God speaks, "Let there be light!" and then there is SEPARATION. Progressive clarity. Emerging life. Creation.

Behold I make all things new! Write that down because it is faithful and true!

[rosered]

 
I love the way you explained this process John , and do  confess   before the Lord the   error   when   my own conscience "pricks it " by the law written in our hearts https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7
  and  I do believe this is what Paul was doing in Romans  7  when he said it is no longer I that sins , but the sin dwelling in me  , He was separating himself  from     sin and Asking the Lord Jesus Christ to deliver him out of this body of death    into the  spiritual   law and Life in Christ   

I could be  wrong  here     ,  ps  I saw the sin Paul was   aware of was covetousness      in Romans 7

   Romans  8  also defines  even better   the healing  and restoring

[eaglesway]

I agree totally rosered.

"Therfore there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who walk according to the Spirit."

In essence, in Romans 7 thru 8:1 Paul is saying that those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk according to(following after) the Spirit- still sin.

James says this(We all stumble in many ways), John also(if anyone sins we have a propitiation for our sins....if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins)

In romans 7 Paul is explaining that that dead man who was crucified with Christ at repentence- and was buried in baptism, is "reckoned dead". We are therefore "reckoned alive".

The actual life of Jesus in us is "mortifying" the dead man, or flesh- and the Spirit of Christ is "quickening" and "enlivening" the new man created in the image of Christ.

"If any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new creation."

But occasionally the dead man slips through....hence, "who shall deliver me from the body of this death"

Thank God for Jesus Christ by whom I am crucified unto the world and the world is crucified unto me.

Since I agree with this from my heart, and in my spirit, and also with the Holy Spirit that (whatever this thing I am struggling with) is sin, it is "sin within me taking advantage of the flesh". I am the new creation. I long to be set free from the body of this death.

What is really cool about this is....This is part of why in Romans 8, we groan, longing for the our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies- and the whole creation groans with us, longing to be set free from futility into the "glorious liberty" of the children of God ...

which we are finding out everyday, is simply the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy spirit who is given us(Romans 5)

The seamless integration of Romans 7(our struggle) into Romans 8(our victory) is glorious and awesome.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8

These verses directly follow the verses on the restoration of all things, in which we labor AND ARE IN LABOR WITH THE WHOLE CREATION.

Our struggles are part of the actual birth pangs of the re-creation. Our victories are part of the emergence of the world set free from futility.

In the meantime....

The answer is to sow to the Spirit. Strengthen the Spirit and the Spirit will reign.

"If you do by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh you will live"

"Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desire of the flesh"

"if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

"Watch ye therefore and pray for the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"

Therefore there is no "condemnation" or judgment in the sense of sentencing(katakrino)- only "exhortation" and the form of judgment that is "discernment"(krisis) so that we can see who we are and not turn from the mirror forgetting - but confess our faults, weaknesses and sins in order to receive both forgiveness and deliverance.

This is so important because if we are condemned in our hearts we will not walk victorious ly- because only grace will set us free from futility.

"If our hearts condemn us he is greater than our hearts and Is faithful still"

This is SO important for people in long term struggles with things like addictions, or character flaws that wont seem to go away.

BEGIN WITH GRACE. Receive forgiveness. Agree with God that is is the old sinner and RECKON HIM DEAD. Then begin to sow. Even if all you can muster is a prayer now and then-

Deliver me from the body of this death. Quicken me in the life of Christ. Help me to abide in Him. Help me to walk in the Spirit. Help me grow in grace.

All those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved(Romans 10)

[rosered]

Amen   !

Thank God for Jesus Christ by whom I am crucified unto the world and the world is crucified unto me.

Taking up your  cross and following  Jesus . 


  Not walking or focusing on the flesh and world   is death    to us  , but keeping our eyes on Jesus .   Hebrews 12

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,


fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

  I love  Philippians  3   that explains   the goal    of walking in the Spirit and keep pressing forward and not looking back to gain more and more of Christ LIFE working in us .


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+3&version=NASB

[marie glen]

   :mshock: oh! thank goodness! :faint:  I thought it was only me! (well, I'm kidding.. mostly :smile: )

[sheila]

His Grace is always with sons of men[what is man,that Thou art mindful of him?"] as we struggle/wrestle these powers and principalities.

      ......and as we continue to follow His Holy spirit...He will lead us into all truth/understanding. and understanding is given..and

   we are granted full discernment..and receive His judgements.  The Mind of Christ/the thoughts of God=atonement/union.

   Father,I pray that they may be one,as You and I are one.           and 'one' with Him we shall be.

       Take heart..in His great LOVE AND DELIVERANCE!!!!!!!!!Amen. :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Again Paul  wrote we  are to expect  chastening  and scourgings and resist sin  even to the point of blood .

A Father's Discipline
You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

"My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines,
And He scourges Strong's G3146 - mastigoō every son whom He receives."   

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3146/mastigoo.htm   



It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline,

of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?

For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.

All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.

For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.                 
  The earthly children cannot inherit   the kingdom of God   is what  I am thinking in this last verse of Esau  and his sorrow with bitter tears maybe ?

[eaglesway]

I think so. Our birthright is being conformed to the image of Christ- Many sons unto glory. That gospel- the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ, and being transformed from glory unto glory- is the gospel. many have sold the birthright for esau's supper. Earthly fulness in echange for being filled up unto all the fulness of God.

[rosered]

   These  verses  speak of the earthly glory  that   becomes their shame ...   serving their own bellies and  devouring  everyone's flesh ,unclean spirits  not washed in the water of the Word ,  repentance [ to   hear  & know and  not obeying ] no flesh pleases God   ,  but circumcision of the  heart   removing the flesh as only God can do  though faith in the Lord Jesus Christ , by Holy Spirit and fire .

Maybe Esau is  a type '' the flesh ''of every man who seeks Gods   blessing  in the earthly  things  to prosper  that can not be  but must come to  an  end ?

Even John the Baptist ,  a type of  law and prophets   said I must decrease  and the Lord Jesus Christ must increase   and  Jesus declaring ,The least of the kingdom  is greater than John , Because it is spiritual in nature   that the Lord Jesus Christ must reign  all spirits   to the point of completing  /working of just men made perfect by faith  in God only  .

  John 30 29"He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made full.
30"He must increase, but I must decrease. 31"He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all....

18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,

19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

  20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;...

Jeremiah 44:17
We will certainly do everything we said we would: We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and will pour out drink offerings to her just as we and our ancestors, our kings and our officials did in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. At that time we had plenty of food and were well off and suffered no harm.

Romans 6:21
What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!

Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

Romans 16:18
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

Colossians 3:2
Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 

  A rebellious spirit ? Obedience is better than all the sacrifices in the world [  creature /spirit  subject to futility] ?

  The best example  that  helps  me  see is this one of Saul being   faithless /rebellious ..


1 Sam 15 22Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD?


Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.


23"For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry.

Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king."

Jesus Christ is  King of Kings and Lord of Lords  being full of  faith and obedient to the point of death  and always obeyed  and honored   and glorified His   Father

and we are to be just   exactly like Him   being our greatest example and our only  way of escape ,    speaks and works  on our behalf   ,our  blessed advocate to the Father .