9"(L)Pray, then, in this way:
'Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10'(M)Your kingdom come
(N)Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11'(O)Give us this day our daily bread.
12'And (P)forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13'And do not lead us into temptation, but (Q)deliver us from (R)evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]'
I have a few questions concerning this prayer.
1. Why is the last part of 13 only in some translations?
2. Why would Jesus pray that God's kingdom come if in verse 13 it says that He already owns the kingdom for the age?
3. What would be the simple explanation for a aionios kingdom?
Quote from: Sarah on September 08, 2008, 03:45:18 PM
9"(L)Pray, then, in this way:
'Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10'(M)Your kingdom come
(N)Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11'(O)Give us this day our daily bread.
12'And (P)forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13'And do not lead us into temptation, but (Q)deliver us from (R)evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]'
I have a few questions concerning this prayer.
1. Why is the last part of 13 only in some translations?
2. Why would Jesus pray that God's kingdom come if in verse 13 it says that He already owns the kingdom for the age?
3. What would be the simple explanation for a aionios kingdom?
Sarah,
I'll do my best to help answer some of your questions
1. Not sure why this is: Luke's version also leaves out "your will be done". It's probable that that's how the account of the prayer was given to him, and that's just how he recorded it, while Matthew had more details according to that.
2. "Do not be like them, for your Father already knows what you need before you ask him.
This, then, is how you should pray".......Matt 6 8-9
a) Jesus was teaching his disciples what was important in prayer. Not what we need or desire; but His sovereign work in all the earth in all men
b)
" For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."1 corinth 27,28. Though Christ has the authority now, the Father is who will be all in all with creation in the end, who is the kingdom and power and glory Forever.
3. Those verses above I think best express how God has laid out his plan; in the through his express image (Jesus Christ, of course) he is gathering his corporate body of the elect to be the firsfruits(of the age). It is the same kingdom, just different stages and responsiblities in it.
God Bless
Quote from: Sarah on September 08, 2008, 03:45:18 PM
I have a few questions concerning this prayer.
1. Why is the last part of 13 only in some translations?
2. Why would Jesus pray that God's kingdom come if in verse 13 it says that He already owns the kingdom for the age?
3. What would be the simple explanation for a aionios kingdom?
1. To me it is a religious bias based upon the thought that it glorified God. In general there may not be anything wrong with that. But as I study more it is not good simply because it adds confusion to interpretation. One conclusion I had was that it is evidence that forever and ever, because of all the emphasis using redundancy lends more to deception than it does good scholarship.
2.He was instructing us how to pray, we can not really know the truth in the same manner Jesus did, we hope, Jesus knew, but he was telling us how to pray knowing we only have hope.
3. God will make a new heaven and earth, so age abiding things is the more accurate context of scripture.
Hope that helps. My first answer is more speculation. When it comes right down to it. If it was not in the manuscripts, I do not believe it should be there.
Thank you Aspiring Son and Paul for your responses. Yes, to me the last part adds confusion, but it is so ingrained that it is hard to think it shouldn't be there...for thine is the power, the glory, and the kingdom forever. Amen.
My husband and I read this and he asked about aionious and I couldn't come up with something that really seemed right to me in it refering to God's reign. I believe he is speaking of the Father, so his reign is forever. I asked God for a simple explanation of aionious life. I got this; it is walking in the light of the Holy Spirit in this age.
According to the translations the aionious Kingdom, aionious power, and aionious glory are now the Fathers. Why then previously did Jesus instruct us to pray for His kingdom to come? If I look at it in the natural, God's kingdom, power, and glory is not manifest in the earth, but it is manifest in some people's lives as they walk in the light of the helper and as the heart becomes transformed by the renewing of the mind. Perhaps the last part of the prayer is more of a statement of faith, calling things that are not as though they were.
It just came to me that when it says, "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven." Perhaps His will being done in Heaven, means that the plan is complete in His mind and heart, it just needs to be brought to earth/us.
Hi Sarah,
If this helps, the scriptural explanation for an everlasting God is not to take words that should never be translated to forever or everlasting and make them say that with context. This is because it causes the word to change with perspective and context outside scripture, rather than scripture verifying it's unity.
It is through the english word immortality, the greek word athanasa (deathlessness).
1Timothy 6:16 Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!
God HAS deathlessness in context with scripture of having no beginning so he could not have been given it. He IS deathlessness.
We are given it.
1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.