You'll need your Bible for this one.

[chester-blowfold]

This is a guest post by Michael Allen Rogers, author of What Happens After I Die?.

Jesus: The Great Theologian of Hell

It may seem remarkable, but no Bible spokesman places more stress on hell as the final consequence of God's judgment of condemnation than Jesus. God's Son was the great theologian of hell.

However, the Christian should not consider it strange that Christ has more to say about hell than anyone else. Jesus was the one who compared hell to the Valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem (also called "Gehenna"), a huge public rubbish dump where dead bodies and trash burned in continually smoldering fires; thus "Gehenna" took hold as a name for hell. Jesus also compared hell to a prison and to outer darkness. It was he who likened hell to "a fire" at least twenty different times.

Lazarus and the Rich Fool

A premier text about hell from the mouth of Jesus is Luke 16:19–31. The wider context of its teaching is the abuse of wealth. Yet when describing the other-worldly setting of this teaching, Christ expanded the doctrine of hell. The passage is about a rich man who played the ultimate fool by luxuriating in his wealth, ignoring true faith in God and service to humanity, until he found himself in hell for his godless selfishness.

The passage seems much like a parable, but it is not specifically called that. In this text, Jesus's primary intent was not to describe details of the unbeliever's afterlife, but the Lord does end up giving us an insider's view of hell, encapsulating important details of what is taught on this subject elsewhere.

No Exit Door

One foundational principle Jesus taught in the lesson of the rich man and Lazarus was that hell has no exit door. Father Abraham tells the writhing sufferer why his condition could not be remedied: "Between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us" (Luke 16:26).

The divide between eternal heaven and everlasting hell is made hard-and-fast by God's eternal decree. The word "fixed" in Luke 16:26 has about the same meaning as our phrase "cast in concrete."

Luke 16 testifies that when an unbeliever becomes conscious of this tragic reality immediately after his own death, it is already too late to humble himself before the gospel of Christ and the cross, which he has spurned hundreds or thousands of times; it is too late to believe in Jesus as Lord; it is too late to beg for divine mercy.

Scripture extends the opportunity of grace for every human being's full lifetime. We hear in 2 Peter 3:9 of the Lord's vast patience: ". . . not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." Yet people will perish—once they have passed the doorway of death without knowing Christ.

Sufficient Warning

Another principle Jesus taught in Luke 16:27–30 is that God's Word gives humanity sufficient warning about how to avoid hell. The rich man grasped it when the remedy could no longer personally help him. He experienced his first-ever altruistic impulse as he pleaded for a messenger to warn his family so they might avoid his plight.

But he is told that testimonials from "Moses and the Prophets" are set before all living men (v. 29). God's revealed Word can tell mankind all we need to know about our sin and a Redeemer's grace. In Luke 11:28 Jesus declared, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!" Do not miss a tremendous irony here. The rich man maintained that something more than God's Word is needed—perhaps a miraculous sign. He went so far as to predict the exact type of miracle that would communicate better than God's written Word: someone returning from the dead, to garner widespread public attention. What folly!

Not long after teaching this gospel lesson, the same Jesus who narrated Luke 16 arose from the grave. And what resulted? A minority of people in the immediate precincts of Jerusalem embraced him as their living Lord. However, the majority scoffed and turned back to perusing their sports pages or looked to the stock market reports to discover what was new on that particular routine day.

Unbelief determinedly shrugs off all historic proofs of Christ. The very One who was told that a family would surely respond to the supernatural wonder of a messenger from the grave became that miraculous messenger. And he is still being spurned.

All Bad News?

Suppose the Bible told us nothing about hell. Would that really make the Scriptures more "loving," or compassionate? Does concealing unpleasant truth demonstrate that you truly care more for others' destinies? What we find in Luke 16 is that the unique spokesman who most insistently announced a dreadful alternative to gracious divinely authored salvation is the same great Lord who died and rose to save us from hell.

Scripture is resolute: there is no means of escape out of hell. However, the gospel of God's love and mercy shows one way of escape before entering. Jesus told it in John 5:24: "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

What a wonderful promise! But Jesus firmly declared that you can only pass from death to life in this life, before entering an irreversible chamber of unspeakable woe.

This means that what you do with Christ right now counts forever.

This post was adapted from What Happens After I Die?
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[marie glen]

What a sad and terrible picture! Oh if only God were more able! If only His Great Plan of Salvation could be more successful.. ( :laughing7: )

But we can take heart! This article goes much further than the scripture.

Without God's saving grace all of us would perish. Romans 6:23 - "the wages" (outcome, consequence, result) "of sin is death".

As we know, there really is no forever in the scriptures either.. possibly age to age.. or long into the future.. under a barren landscape.. Yahweh is powerless to do anything about.. Even all those who lived and died and never so much as heard anything about Jesus.. so sad God could not reach nor save them.. now flesh melting agony for ever and ever.. What a testimony to God's glory and greatness.. One no one in heaven or earth will ever forget..

:doh: I do believe however that the 2nd age after this one.. age of judgment - GReat White Throne - (which in the ancient fall holy days, as fulfilled by His long 2nd advent, correlates with day of atonement(DOA, for the DOA resurrection.. yes, they did die in their sins.. and some I'm sure will find themselves in their own outer darkness.. especially as they wonder if they will be tossed to an eternal torture pit.. woe.. talk about weeping and gnashing of teeth, the gnashing likely from some who trained their heart to hate God who is love, life and the creator, sustainer of all life and every good thing.

Yes, praise God for His Word.. and for this unavoidable lesson for all "in heaven and earth" of learning good from evil, which surely is also life from nonlife? The wages of sin being death. ..And without this all important lesson and learning, we could not be rational creatures.. but would have to be babies forever.. Which apparently is not what God is after..

And for His redemption "built in from the beginning" (foundation). (Too bad it's not more capable and efficient! If I may kid about such a "grave" matter.

His Word which tells us "As" (in the same way as) "in Adam all die, in Jesus all will live, but each in their own order, Christ the Firstfruits, those that are His at His coming, and then at tossed the.. when the Father becomes all in all" - (as we know, 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, or is it 23-28? :dontknow: )

So, we can plainly see that the rich man at that time will be part of the ALL in all.. being as that's the nature of all. (I didn't mean to capitalize all.. but guess I'll leave it)

Ah yes, "with God all things are possible!" Even that "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord" and we know no one can say "Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost".. So even those who "rise still in their sins" apparently Yahweh Most High is capable of reaching them. And so joy, a characteristic of His character, will be all in all., as will be peace .. And of course LOVE (which I did mean to capitalize :laughing7: ).

Is He Perfect? Does perfect do anything which is, well, imperfect? Millions being burned alive.. hmmm :Chinscratch: what, or who's, mind does that really remind me of?

God Bless! ...hope this post isn't TOO long! I'm on iPhone.. it's hard to tell.. Hope all have a very nice weekend! :gsmile:

[eaglesway]

Jesus never once used the word hell. He spoke of sheol and gehenna and "aionios pyr"(fire of the age), or [Hebrew] "olam esh"(the fire of the world to come) and gehenna(the fire in the valley where refuse is consumed). Never hell, as our friend Lazarus Short demonstrated in his thread on hell.

The very word, "hell" was a word from Norse mythology that was used by the KJV translators in a very haphazard way for three different biblical words(sheol, gehenna, tartarus). We are not children of Norse mythology. We are children of the Logos- the scriptures God-breathed through the apostles and prophets in the original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.  :thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

Jesus spoke of Hell only if you are already reading your Bible through the "Hell Filter."  Instead of this eternalconscioustorment screed, you should be reading my book.  :doh:


BTW, thank you, Eaglesway, for the kind words!

[chester-blowfold]

Cheers marie/eaglesway/lazarous. This is something I picked up on youtube.

[Abigail]

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hell-explained-bible-threatenings-explained.html#THERICHMANANDLAZARUS

This article on the tentmaker website explains the Lazarus / rich man story very well.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: amen, great article!!

[darryl]

God punishes human beings forever...cos they're weak, self- centered, frail, vulnerable...imperfect....faithless.............even though God, who is love, knew they would be like this before He made them.......................what an unspeakable tragedy life would ultimately be if this hideous doctrine were true....thank God, it's not true.

[bushy]

That's for sure. I'm so glad I discovered it's all nonsense. I think before too long everyone will know the truth.

[eaglesway]

God punishes human beings forever...cos they're weak, self- centered, frail, vulnerable...imperfect....faithless.............even though God, who is love, knew they would be like this before He made them.......................what an unspeakable tragedy life would ultimately be if this hideous doctrine were true....thank God, it's not true.

:iagree:

[Dandelion]

Luke:16

The Rich Man and Lazarus
(John 5:39-47)
19Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. 20And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.

24So he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.'

25But Abraham answered, 'Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are left to suffer. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.'

27'Then I beg you, father,' he said, 'send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them so they will not also end up in this place of torment.'

29But Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.'

30'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.'

31Then Abraham said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

This is what I read.

People cannot pass between heaven and 'hell'. Neither can people go back to earth and tell the living about the other side.

The rich man was in a situation in which he was 'in torment'. This doesn't mean he was in Hell. Remember, the Old Testament did not have the concept of Hell. Hades was not Hell.

Perhaps the rich man was going through the metamorphesis that is necessary to be saved. It doesn't say that he will be in this state forever.

We must remember that God will not abandon us, even in death.

Romans 8:

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."[a]
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


We know that in 1Corinthians13:8 it says that, "Love never fails".

We know that He desires all to be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For "God has put everything under His feet."b Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.


As Franklin Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear, but fear, itself."      :Gclap:

D.

[marie glen]

by Dandelion - Perhaps he was going through the metamorphosis that is necessary to being saved. It doesn't say he would be there forever..

Amen!! :thumbsup:

And remember in the Old Testament they didn't have hell.

Amen!! Even if Jesus spoke in the Greek and not Aramaic, even hades was not yet 'hell'..

[ed]

Jesus never once used the word hell. He spoke of sheol and gehenna and "aionios pyr"(fire of the age), or [Hebrew] "olam esh"(the fire of the world to come) and gehenna(the fire in the valley where refuse is consumed). Never hell, as our friend Lazarus Short demonstrated in his thread on hell.

The very word, "hell" was a word from Norse mythology that was used by the KJV translators in a very haphazard way for three different biblical words(sheol, gehenna, tartarus). We are not children of Norse mythology. We are children of the Logos- the scriptures God-breathed through the apostles and prophets in the original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.  :thumbsup:

Can I use that?

well said BTW.

[eaglesway]

Of course :o)