Wow... just wow... From Baptist to UR

[BruceLeeJR]

I am absolutely astounded at the wealth of information that there is on UR. I prayed for 30 days straight asking God to show me the truth, guide me... just making a general statement, nothing in specific, I was just telling him to help me find my purpose in life. Lo and behold, I am working on a fantasy story project , having NO INTENTION of seeking for Him, but just writing my story and doing my hobbies when I get stuck on a apart about the story that involves concepts of the afterlife.... it eventually led me to UR. I was shocked that God revealed it to me THROUGH MY OWN HOBBIES when I HAD NO INTENTION for seeking for Him.

Anyway, I recently read the book "Hell is a mistranslation" by Marc Speed and almost fell to the ground at how BEAUTIFUL Scripture sounds and LOGICALLY SOUND it is. It made TOO MUCH sense lol.

Of course, me being a Baptist... I made sure I went to CARM, av1611.org, gotquestions.org etc etc to make sure I see both sides of the argument. I wrote down verses and all the arguments that non-UR Christians were making AGAINST UR and looked them up elsewhere in Google.

CLEARLY UR was ALWAYS consistent in the message and the non-UR Christians ALWAYS artificially superimposed their pagan-inherited beliefs on top of Scripture thinking of creative ways on how to prove ETERNAL DAMNATION.
A few verses in the book "Hell is a mistranslation" made the concept of hell COMPLETELY fall apart. I was like WHOA. I felt a EXTREME sense of relief, warmth and love come over me.

I think one thing to PROVE EASILY that Eternal Damnation IS FALSE WITHOUT a shadow of a doubt using the KING JAMES VERSION with NO translation needed , are the following verses:


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1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Philippians 2:10-11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Eternal Damnation is based on 3 things: Spirit + Body = Soul
1 Thessalonians 5:23, Genesis 2:7

Reinforced by: Acts 2:27, Luke 23:46, Psalms 146:4, Psalms 115:17, Psalms 31:5, Psalms 16:10, Psalms 6:5, Ecclesiastes 12:7, Ecclesiastes 9:10, Ecclesiastes 9:5


For the non-UR Christian to say " Yeah but they will say it/confess in hell but God won't save them" would mean that while they are in Hell burning and saying/confessing, THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH THEM AND ARE SAVED WHILE FOREVER BURNING IN HELL.. How can they confess or even swear if they cannot even simply say it ? Not only that, how can you confess/swear it while simultaneously being burnt to a crisp? Just look at the powerful language that is used.

To add words or take away words or creatively implement an idea will BREAK all the verses. I have done it from most angles that I can think of and it's not possible for me. This is THE KJV too !!!!

The Holy Spirit + Body = Soul(consciousness)
They have the Holy Spirit with them in the everlasting lake of fire.
When you have the Holy Spirit, you WILL confess that Jesus is Lord because you cannot simulatenously have the Holy Spirit and blaspheme God.
NO MAN can even say, let alone confess/swear that Jesus is Lord UNLESS they have the Holy Spirit.
When one confesses, they are saved.

To take away the Holy Spirit means to take away consciousness.
To take away consciousness means you cannot experience Hell.
To call the second death eternal damnation means they are simultaneously eternally gaining life.
To call the second death eternal damnation means Death was not swallowed up and eternally exists.


You cannot POSSIBLY be eternally damned in a lake a fire because this means:
THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH THEM,EVENTUALLY CONFESS AND ARE SAVED WHILE FOREVER BURNING IN HELL.

Therefore, the eternally damned would become believers.

If you explain to someone that the Spirit, Soul and Body are 3 seperate entities, there is NO WAY that eternal damnation is logically possible. I think once you can distinguish between the Spirit and Soul (because most already know what the body is), then you can BREAK the eternal damnation mindset. It broke mine completely.

Eternal damnation is based on these 3 core entities. If you can get someone to agree that the spirit and soul are different, the truth SPILLS OVERWHELMINGLY.

Even if they point at MANY other (supposed) contradictions in the Bible (which are EASILY PROVABLE), they will have to ALWAYS look back at how the soul is formed. The eternal damnation doctrine CANNOT exist when the spirit and body is the soul.

I suggest to anyone that if the Eternal Damnation debate comes up, refer to how a soul is made. This should DEVASTATINGLY KILL AND UNQUESTIONABLY DETERIORATE the Eternal Damnation Doctrine.
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The above should make them question the KJV and eventually towards UR. If that is not even enough evidence, let's keep reading ......
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Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Psalms 6:5
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:21
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

If they have a body and soul that is being burned forever, THEY MUST HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT because the HOLY SPIRIT+BODY = SOUL.

If the non-UR says they don't have the Holy Spirit when they are saying/confessing that Jesus is Lord, would mean the unconscious souls are now conscious and are more powerful than Jesus Himself since when He Himself gave up the Ghost, he died.

To say "Well, God took the Holy Spirit out of them and left them with conscious souls to be eternally damned no matter if they confessed or not" WOULD MEAN GOD IS NOT THE SAME YESTERDAY TODAY AND FOREVER, the Word of God DOES NOT endureth forever and AND He blatantly contradicts Himself.

And to say " The second death is an eternal damnation death." Means Death was NOT swallowed up in victory and Philippians 1:21 is lying. And if Philippians 1:21 is not lying, then they are eternally gaining life.

And if the KJVer doesn't want to test anything and hold fast to the KJV means they are disobeying and blatantly contradict 2 Corinthians 3:6 1 & Thessalonians 5:21.

And to say "Yeah but even the demons believe" is VASTLY DISTINCT than CONFESSING as pointed out PLAINLY in Scripture.

Also, to call something other than God ETERNAL like the Lake of Fire for instance would mean it's ALWAYS existed along side God therefore making 2 distinct entities.

To deny Logic means to deny LOGOS. To deny LOGOS means to deny the Word of God SINCE Logos means Word of God.

If Eternal Damnation is true and you must meet certain conditions in order to be saved, then God's love IS NOT unconditional.

To give this argument should TRAP a non-UR dead in it's tracks.

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ANYWAYS !! I got carried away... there is a whooooooooooole LOT LOT LOT more that back up EVERY SINGLE THING I just said.

http://www.1john57.com/prooftext.htm

^^^ This site is always in ongoing construction adding more and more every day about verses supporting UR. Pretty soon it will be the entire Bible.

But back to me.... God revealed the truth to me. I am forever grateful and am EXTREMELY happy I found this website !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lomarah]

Welcome Bruce! It's amazing is it not? He is so awesome and I also love how He shows us stuff often "by coincidence". Makes it obvious that it's HIM doing the revealing! May you be blessed here, look forward to chatting with you.  :smile:

[Lazarus Short]

Bruce:

Having been raised in a Baptist family, I know where you are coming from!  Your post makes me realize that Baptists I have known who subscribed to Eternal Torture, lacked a clear understanding of Spirit + Body = Soul.  Even if it was clearly explained to them, they would go on as if nothing had been said.

I started to get into a formal debate with an ET advocate over on another forum, but the debate became a non-starter for reasons we needn't go into here.  Anyway, I had already posted my intro when the curtain came down, and I took the same tack as you, starting with Spirit + Body =Soul.  From there, I was going to demonstrate that the Soul, the living person, does die, is mortal, and so the Greek concept of the immortal Soul is therefore false.  This knocks out one of the props of Hell.

One thing in the Bible indicating that ET is false, is not talked about much.  It is the Law of the Jubilee, the requirement that every fifty years, all debts (symbolic of sin) are canceled, and all slaves (who have had to sell themselves into bondage due to debt/sin) go home to their land and inheritance.  It is this that indicates that punishment for sin is temporal, rather than eternal.

Anyhow, welcome, and I hope we hear a lot from you in the future... :friendstu:

[mplsfitter539]

That formula is amazing!.......spirit+body=soul. Thanks for posting it I have honestly never seen it before but only became UR believer less than a year ago.

[Rhodes]

 :laugh: :banana: :dsunny: :Peace2:
Bruce that is an awesome testimony brother.

[lunarabbit]

It's funny how we all missed that while in Church.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground [body], and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [spirit]; and man became a living soul. -Gen 2:7

:reachout:

[jbertonbounds]

Man the way you put it, "almost fell to the ground at how BEAUTIFUL Scripture sounds and LOGICALLY SOUND it is. It made TOO MUCH sense," was exactly how I felt when I first saw the truth.  I still feel that way, as a matter of fact.  I also am Baptist (in name only, now), and I am serving in a small church in Alabama.  It's been a wonderful journey full of joy, frustration, mental work and study and prayer, and excitement - but most of all, peace.  It's like a giant puzzle all worked out before me now, forming a beautiful picture of salvation.

[reFORMer]

When in Genesis it says that God breathed into the mud thing He had made and it became a living soul, the Hebrew says God breathed into it the breath of LIVES, plural.

I suffered being poisoned and that I had breathed out something of my "bios" life force.  I watched as spirit left me.  I waited some years til God showed me He can breathe back into us again.  This is what I ultimately need, it seems to me.  Rather than wishing I could die as the solution to my problems I realized I need more life.  Where're ya' goin' to get it?  Get close.   By inspiration and expiration, The Spirit is ever spirating.  "He breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Ghost.'"

[lomarah]

When in Genesis it says that God breathed into the mud thing He had made and it became a living soul, the Hebrew says God breathed into it the breath of LIVES, plural.

I suffered being poisoned and that I had breathed out something of my "bios" life force.  I watched as spirit left me.  I waited some years til God showed me He can breathe back into us again.  This is what I ultimately need, it seems to me.  Rather than wishing I could die as the solution to my problems I realized I need more life.  Where're ya' goin' to get it?  Get close.    By inspiration and expiration, The Spirit is ever spirating.   "He breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Ghost.'"

Love it!

[Sweetdreams]

 :dsunny:


Welcome ! Former Baptist as well. Isn't Grace amazing! I find such new meaning in that one word now!