New from Belgium, with (long) testimony

[Abigail]

Hello brothers and sisters,

Abigail (Abba's joy) is not my real name, but I like some internet privacy. And here is the rest of the story...

I have grown up in a Calvinist church setting and been born again at age 20, after which I attended an evangelical church. I never thought much about heaven and hell, although I am aware I had largely a Calvinist mindset about it. When I was born again, for me it had nothing to do with being 'saved from hell', rather it was the first time God made me to realize I was totally helpless and in need of Him.

When I married and we had children, I started to wonder about their salvation. In the church I grew up in, everybody was automatically saved by being a Christian (by growing up in church and mentally assenting the bible is true). Yet in the evangelical church, making a choice or having a special experience seemed to be required. I remember that I sometimes wanted to make my children say some kind of 'sinners' prayer', yet I felt the Holy Spirit urged me not to do that. I felt confused about how I should teach my children about God. On the one hand I wanted them to convince them of God's unconditional love. Yet on the other had I had to insist they take God's message very seriously, because when they would not... I simply could not explain such an illogical thing to a child and I mostly avoided the topic. My husband was very relaxed about this. He did not have a specific born-again-experience, but he just trusted God and His love for him from when he was very little.

After a few years I first heard the message of universal reconciliation. I was attracted to it and I also began to see it in the Bible. For a while I believed it 'could be true' but I'd better play safe. So it helped me to soothe my biggest fears, yet I did not fully believe it. I had not a scriptural basis, but merely a philosophical / logical basis at that time.

Last year (summer 2013) I somehow decided UR was a heresy. Within a few weeks, I heard a message that totally changed my life (though not the way the speaker meant)
It was the first time I heard a 'fire and brimstone sermon', so to say. In the same week I heard another message about child raising, in which the speaker was chatting about one's 'saved and unsaved children'. I was shocked, because I formally, somewhat in the back of my mind, believed this, but never had looked it straight in the face. So what I actually believed was: I am surrounded everyday with persons that are dearest to me – my beloved children – who could die any moment for whatever reason and would risk going to an eternal stake? I could not bear the thought. My relatives managed to calm me down somewhat about this, since children are 'set apart' in their parents, and they did not yet have the age of accountability (btw I never heard about this and did not find it in the bible), and of course we could pray. So I somehow settled a bit, but then I would go grocery shopping. I was surrounded by people who were mostly unbelievers. I could not bear the thought of one, even a not so kind one, to burn on a stake without ending. I felt so horrified. I could not imagine any Christian could ever enjoy life, have vacations and stuff, while there was such a danger all the time. I made a mind picture like this: it's like a lot of people are hanging on the cliff, while I'm having dinner in a beautiful, snug mountain cabin, having a party because I'm saved from that cliff and occasionally walking outside to draw someone out when I would feel like it. I ought to be dragging continually, without ever resting or eating before they were all safe! Yet I realized that my 'soul winning' attempts would not be very successfully when I myself was being totally horrified and depressed by the 'good news' I would be bringing.
Then I started to think further. If I had been saved by faith, could I become 'unsaved' by unbelief? How could I be sure I would always stay a believer? What if I doubted (and I was actually doing a lot of doubting that time)? What if I would sin against the Holy Spirit (whatever that meant – maybe those negative thoughts I was having about God?) I was so horrified about the fate of the greater part of the human race, or even my children or myself, that I could hardly eat anymore and lost a lot of weight. I realized I was not doing well, but I also knew no medicine or therapy would help solve these feelings. My husband has his office at home, and I repeatedly came in because I was totally desperate. It was a trying time for him. Yet he stayed calm and assuring and I felt saver when I was with him. I felt I was being such a burden to him instead of a blessing then. All the time I knew there was a way out, namely the belief in Universal Reconciliation. But I had denounced that belief and I was doing all my best to resist the 'temptation' to start believing this. Also during this time I had two songs in my head, namely:
'The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, and rich in love.
And the Lord is good to all, He has compassion on all that He has made.
And as far as the east is from the west, that's how far He has removed the transgressions from us. Praise the Lord, o my soul.'
And the other (from Hillsongs): 'Saviour, You can move a mountain. My God is mighty to save, He is mighty to save. Forever, Author of Salvation. My Lord has conquered the grave, Jesus conquered the grave...'
I cried out to God: 'If you are really mighty to save, than why You don't? If it's up to me to get saved, what hope do I have? I don't have that much trust in myself. Is Your goodness to all only temporary, in giving rain to the good and the bad, but leaving the bad to something far more serious than dry land?'
During this time I remembered very vividly an experience I once had during worship in a church. It was as I looked from Gods perspective to all the people in my eyeshot and there was so much love, that no sin or character flaw was too big for Him to solve. Remembering this, I cried out to God to show me the Truth, and if hell was a reality, than to let me have peace about it.
Finally I (kind of stealthily) looked up some verses I had written down a few years ago that spoke of UR and I read this from Isaiah 25: 'And on this mount shall the Lord of hosts make for all peoples a feast of rich things, a feast of wines on the lees – of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. And He will destroy on this mountain the covering of the face that is cast over the heads of all peoples and the veil that is woven and spread over all nations. He will swallow up death. And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces'. That did it. Gods perfect peace washed over me and all anguish was gone. I knew in my innermost being: this is God. Then came joy. My mind was not convinced though. I told my husband I was finally at peace, but that I now believed a heresy. I started to trust more in what God spoke to my heart. I opened the Bible and read more in one night than I usually did in one year. I read large parts of Isaiah and the Minor Prophets and saw it everywhere: judgment, utterly destruction forever...UNTIL. And then: restoration. The next time I was in the supermarket, I was not horrified but full of love. To know that one day all these people will be saved! It dawned on me: mmm... peace, love, joy... these are fruits of the Spirit! Much better fruits than horror, fear and depression. A few days later I jumped out of my bed, eager to read the bible! I always had a lot of trouble reading bible, since most of the time I ended up feeling either horrified or condemned. This was so despite I had tasted and seen glimpses of Gods love and goodness. I especially avoided Revelations, so I decided that I 'dared' to read that now. I read about the Lake of Fire and immediately felt that big 'knot' in my stomach again. I started to seek answers on the internet. I was very happy to find Tentmaker soon and started reading a lot. My mind came more 'in tune' with what God was already speaking to my heart. I especially loved to read the Saviour of the World Series. After my bad bible reading experience I was still anxious to pick it up. Yet I looked up a lot of references in the articles I read, especially in Absolute Assurance in Jesus Christ. This book really helped me a lot, since I could relate so much to what Charles is writing and could much clearer see how distorted my former beliefs are and why.
My husband also read the Saviour of the World Series and was soon convinced of this Truth. I feel like for him it is less of a 'turn around'. He has always known in his heart God is good, and this just 'fitted' – made God bigger and even more loving than he knew. For me, it is a difference between night and day. The year after this happened, I had a lot of questions I probably always had, but never dared to ask. Why is there evil? Why did God make Satan? What does the death of the Lord Jesus really mean? Often when I had these questions, I tended to distrust God's goodness. I realize I am doing this, when I feel very distant and rational towards God . I belief this is mainly the case because I have for many years forced myself to believe very bad and ugly things about God, calling them 'good' as I was supposed to by 'orthodoxy'. I know it when I am back to His heart, since then my heart always cries Daddy, Abba.
Almost 10 months after God turned me around in this, I gave birth to a beautiful little boy we named Lukas (light bringer). I am very glad to have a baby in my arms that, I am absolutely sure of, will stay forever in the grip of my Fathers hands. I do not need to save our dear children. My God and Saviour will. He is mighty to save.

[Shev]

Greetings Abby!

God bless you, and thank you for sharing your experiences. I like how you emphasized how the knowledge of the truth bore the fruit of the Spirit, as this is one of the many proofs of UR - namely, that in seeing the true nature of God, we are able to connect to that love, peace, joy and all other good things, and have them permeate our lives. The belief in eternal torment is a terrible, awful, torment (ironically), and a bondage that has been ingrained into the people of God over the centuries. Christ came to set us free...and now we are free indeed!  :dsunny:

[Tom]

Welcome Abigail. The orthodox teaching about torture in fire forever definitely makes folks crazy because it makes no sense when you believe God is love. It makes no sense because it's a lie. Yes, belief in universal reconciliation is considered heresy by the corrupt institution that invalidates the word of God, but I don't care if they call me a heretic because I know Christ's blood on the cross reconciles all those on earth and in the heavens (Colossians 1:20).

[eaglesway]

Wow! What a wonderful testimony, I am so touched by it, and rejoicing! Thanks.

[jabcat]

 :angelharp:

[Lazarus Short]

Welcome to the Tent!   :friendstu: :gimmefive: :friendstu:

We are blessed to have you!!  :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[marie glen]

 

Hello brothers and sisters,

Abigail (Abba's joy)

       :cloud9: Hello sister! I am smiling and feeling blessed by your account.. Before coming to tentmaker forums, I never realized how many folks are haunted (tormented) by the 'hell' doctrine..

Finally I (kind of stealthily) looked up some verses I had written down a few years ago that spoke of UR and I read this from Isaiah 25: 'And on this mount shall the Lord of hosts make for all peoples a feast of rich things, a feast of wines on the lees – of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. And He will destroy on this mountain the covering of the face that is cast over the heads of all peoples and the veil that is woven and spread over all nations. He will swallow up death. And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces'. That did it. Gods perfect peace washed over me and all anguish was gone. I knew in my innermost being: this is God. Then came joy. ....I opened the Bible and read more in one night than I usually did in one year. I read large parts of Isaiah and the Minor Prophets and saw it everywhere: judgment, utterly destruction forever...UNTIL. And then: restoration.

I have wondered over verses like this.. Not 100% certain if they equate to UR (because orthodoxy would claim it referred to "all peoples" which remain) - but you have confirmed it to me by this! By the the peace and joy the Holy Spirit ministered to you.. :thumbsup:  :ty:

 

The next time I was in the supermarket, I was not horrified but full of love. To know that one day all these people will be saved! It dawned on me: mmm... peace, love, joy... these are fruits of the Spirit! Much better fruits than horror, fear and depression.

     :LH: Amen!!

 

A few days later I jumped out of my bed, eager to read the bible!

More fruit of the Spirit!  :smile: We can tell something by its fruit..

 

My husband also read the Saviour of the World Series and was soon convinced of this Truth. I feel like for him it is less of a 'turn around'. He has always known in his heart God is good, and this just 'fitted' – made God bigger and even more loving than he knew.

..praise the Lord! and I think there are maNy like him!

since then my heart always cries Daddy, Abba.
Almost 10 months after God turned me around in this, I gave birth to a beautiful little boy we named Lukas (light bringer). I am very glad to have a baby in my arms that, I am absolutely sure of, will stay forever in the grip of my Fathers hands. I do not need to save our dear children. My God and Saviour will. He is mighty to save.

     :cloud9: :cloud9: :dsunny:

[CHB]

Oh how I pray for the day when all people will come to this realization. :banana:


CHB

[micah7:9]

  :welcome: :HeartThrob: :dsunny: He Is Risen.

[rosered]

 :welcome:   :icon_flower:

[Psalm91:4]

Hi Abigail,

:welcome: :hiya:

I must have heard that same "fire and brimstone" sermon shortly after believing in Jesus at around 15 years of age, along with the "age of accountability" doctrine.
I am horrified to admit this, but since I loved my then five year old baby sister, I asked the Lord to please take her home early if she were going to reject him when she reached  the age of accountability, and if she would never receive Him at an older age.

I could not bear the thought of her being tormented in flames for ever and to my very limited understanding then, death sooner rather than later was the only assurance of eternal safety I could see for her in that scenario.

Well thank God she is still alive !!! 
   :-)   that`s one prayer I am so glad the Lord didn't need to answer.  That hellfire false teaching sure did wreak its havoc on my soul/mind/heart until the Lord in His time brought me in to His rest on all of these matters. 

From the time I first believed as a teen, I rejected Calvinist theology;  that one was too *obviously dark, from what they were claiming.

At least in Arminian theology, everybody still had a *chance to be saved up until they drew their last breath, anyway.

What a relief to learn the Truth that Jesus is Savior of the world. No exceptions ......   He is Lord of all.  He is Worthy to receive praise from all of His creation.  To the glory of God.

:dsunny:   :girlheart: :violin: :giveheart:

[Abigail]

Thank you all for your friendly welcome!

Psalm91:4, I think it's not weird that you prayed like that, it's the most logical thing to do. I've heard there have been mothers who even killed their own little ones, since they believed that way they would rescue them from eternal torment. This shows how horrible the teaching is if you really take it serious.

I think I heard a different sermon, it was not about the age of accountability. One sermon mentioned 'unsaved' children, what caused me to anguish, since how could I know for sure my children were 'saved'?

The other sermon, about hell, was by Paul Washer, entitled 'the Gospel'. I really appreciate him, since he is very honest, even though I don't agree with him. Most people (like I did) formally believe in hell, but don't act like it's real. Yet he does, I believe he is really laying down his life to warn people. It helped me to realize what I actually believed. And by God's grace, finding the truth of Gods victorious plan for mankind  :friendstu: :HeartThrob: