Willfully misenterpretating sheol/hades

[chester-blowfold]

So the true translations are out there.
So why is there so much misinterpretation of the word sheol/hades? I mean the true definitions are there for all to read. Is it a case of people being brain washed into the belief in hell or is there a more underlining evil involved?
Why do some obviously intelligent people refuse to move on the subject of hell even though it's proven the translation of sheol into hell is wrong? Or are there definitions (not written by Christian evangelicals) out there telling people sheol indeed does mean hell? (I realise some web bible definitions will say sheol means hell, but they usually written by someone who is a evangelical believer in ET and won't look past their nose, so cannot be trusted).

[Dandelion]

There is not just one answer to your question, but I think much of it is fear of being wrong, and the fact that many of us grew up believing in Hell as one of the firm beliefs of our religion.

And, this line in the Bible makes people hesitant to accept the fact that the Bible was 'changed' long ago, when Hell was substituted for words like gehenna and sheol, and lake of fire.

Revelation 22:

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesusb be with all the saints.

Amen.


Another point is that the concept of Hell satisfies many people's idea of justice. But, this is an earthly way of thinking, in my mind, and not the way of God.

And, another issue, is that new ideas often take time and come slowly to many of us.  No matter how terrible, we often become comfortable with our lies, and choose to keep believing them.

My  :2c:

D.

[chester-blowfold]

Some good points Dandelion, thanks.

[Ross]

So the true translations are out there.
So why is there so much misinterpretation of the word sheol/hades?

Romans 11;32 "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, so that He may show mercy to ALL."

2 Cor 3;5 " Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from us,
                 but our adequacy comes from God."

I.M.O amongst that disobedience is the blindness/shutters placed on mankind until the individual's time to learn.

1 Cor 15;23 ..... but each in his own order.

Wilfully misinterpreting seems to come from the blend of so many religions.
1 Cor 1;25 " For the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man."


Can the pot say to the potter why it has been made? Yet man tries to define God.

1 Cor 2;7,8 " Rather, we speak the wisdom of God, a wisdom that was hidden in mystery and that God had determined before the   ages for our glory.
               NONE of the rulers of this age understood it,
              for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory."

Ergo the misrepresenting is a comedy of errors I.M.O- just like watching the games kids come up with in the playground, with each one trying to be more inventive, or coming up with their own rules.

[Lazarus Short]

Covered.

Hidden.

Unknown.

This what "sheol" means in relation to the place or state of the dead.  "Hades" is the best Greek equivalent, and (surprise!) "Hell" means the same, in its oldest usages. 

I learned something interesting from a fellow over at the Evangelical Universalist www site very recently:  helling potatoes meant not just burying them for the winter, but also the covering of any exposed potatoes while they were still growing, so that they would not be green.  He also said that in the old days, lovers would seek out a private hell, where they could be alone.

[RonnyTX]

So the true translations are out there.
So why is there so much misinterpretation of the word sheol/hades? I mean the true definitions are there for all to read. Is it a case of people being brain washed into the belief in hell or is there a more underlining evil involved?
Why do some obviously intelligent people refuse to move on the subject of hell even though it's proven the translation of sheol into hell is wrong? Or are there definitions (not written by Christian evangelicals) out there telling people sheol indeed does mean hell? (I realise some web bible definitions will say sheol means hell, but they usually written by someone who is a evangelical believer in ET and won't look past their nose, so cannot be trusted).

Ronny to Chester:
I think a lot of it is, people are taught to believe in a Jesus Christ created  hell of eternal torment and that in so many churches and I don't doubt that in more than a few, they are taught whatever their church teachings are, whatever their church leaders say, has to be true and of and from God/Jesus Christ. And in the local church I was brought up in, I was taught such a hell was real. And there, I was also taught the King James Version of the bible was perfect and the only true bible and well, it has hell in it, so such had to be true. Yet I never wished for such to be true and it got to where I tried my best, not to think of such.  And thinking about when God saved me, when I was 16teen years old. In that, God gave me a love and caring for every person. I wished for every person to then have the same type of relationship with God, as I then had. But then, it was back to my home church, where I was taught, such was not to be.  Where I was taught, God chose who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. And I'm just so glad, that 6 to 7 years ago, God showed me that Jesus Christ is truly the Savior of the whole world and that including everyone, from Adam on down. :-) Ah, talk about the fruits of the Spirit that brings up, like love and joy! :-)

[chester-blowfold]

Nice post Ronny

[marie glen]

Amen.. I'm thinking when that's the case.. the church's teachings as infallible(!) if that' is the belief, then the teacher/churches are an idol! :faint:

[StevenL]

Amen.. I'm thinking when that's the case.. the church's teachings as infallible(!) if that' is the belief, then the teacher/churches are an idol! :faint:

"...an idol..."  Exactly! The 'church', ever since the wolves moved in, as predicted by Paul, has been an increasingly dictatorial, deceiving, murdering entity. As long as you obey them, going along with their false teachings and fables, you are 'loved' and 'accepted'. Once your eyes start opening and you begin openly questioning their authority for their doctrines and physical organization, the 'loving' church will literally throw you to the wolves. OUT! And they will NOT follow up to attempt to restore you.

Here's a pretty good description of the 'church' of Jesus Christ that we're faced with today:

Act 20:29  for I have known this, that there shall enter in, after my departing, grievous wolves unto you, not sparing the flock,
Act 20:30  and of your own selves there shall arise men, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
Act 20:31  `Therefore, watch, remembering that three years, night and day, I did not cease with tears warning each one;

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshy, as to minors in Christ."

2Co 11:3  Yet I fear lest somehow, as the serpent deludes Eve by its craftiness, your apprehensions should be corrupted from the singleness and pureness which is in Christ. " 2Co 11:4  For if, indeed, he who is coming is heralding another Jesus whom we do not herald, or you are obtaining a different spirit, which you did not obtain, or a different evangel, which you do not receive, you are bearing with him ideally. "

2Co 11:14  And no marvel, for Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light. " 2Co 11:15  It is no great thing, then, if his servants also are being transfigured as dispensers of righteousness - whose consummation shall be according to their acts. "

Gal 1:6  I marvel that you are so readily leaving Him who called you by the grace of Christ, and are adhering to a different Good News
Gal 3:1  You foolish Galatians! Whose sophistry has bewitched you--you to whom Jesus Christ has been vividly portrayed as on the Cross?
Gal 5:14  For the entire Law has been obeyed when you have kept the single precept, which says, "YOU ARE TO LOVE YOUR FELLOW MAN EQUALLY WITH YOURSELF."
Gal 5:15  But if you are perpetually snarling and snapping at one another, beware lest you are destroyed by one another.

2Th 2:3  No one should be deluding you by any method, for, should not the apostasy be coming first and the man of lawlessness be unveiled, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

1Ti 6:20  O Timotheus, the thing entrusted guard thou, avoiding the profane vain-words and opposition of the falsely-named knowledge,
1Ti 6:21  which certain professing--concerning the faith did swerve; the grace is with you. Amen.

2Ti 3:5  having a form of devoutness, yet denying its power."
2Ti 3:13  Yet wicked men and swindlers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived."

All of this has taken place in the 'ecclesias' and is now the very basis for our 'church' today. The whole is now leavened. It is astonishing to realize this and most of the adherents to this idol WILL NOT hear of any warnings against it. No wonder John marveled greatly at the woman.

But if we are to be 'saved' in this age, we have to remember that all this is taking place within the ecclesias/churches. The people who:  "...eat of the tree of life...may not be injured of the second death...eat from the hidden manna...rule them with a rod of iron...walk with me in white...may not go any more...sit with me in my throne...", those few, are those who come out from them and OVERCOME. Overcome what? To a great extent, see above Scriptures. Only a few within the ecclesias/churches will see this and actually ACT accordingly in order to be included with The Elect. I hope some of us here will be included. I hope that I may be included. If we don't overcome...we will not be. Isn't this what all the warning is about? Serious matters.

[marie glen]

I think it's a human nature thing.. get a crowd together and they can so easily become a mob or act like a mob.. I'm extremely zealous for truth.. If I didn't think, ultimately, truth is God.. iS Him.. (He is life, love, light, good, truth, perfection... imo) Otherwise I'd think truth was an idol with me.. that's how zealous I am for truth.. (including eschatology, science, history).

I used to feel a bit bad that I didn't go to church and join up, you know, with a church or a body of believers.. Not so much anymore. I've been really blessed to be able to study and worship on my own.. found God not even in a church, but in the mountains.. Jesus a little bit later.. Not in a church either but via a bible tract which i later found out was left by a rather mean spirited lady! Whom I met when I heard her complaining about some neighbors and being young and brazen, I smiled and told her how "the answer to everything is love!" I later found out she left lots of bible tracts wherever she happened to go.. I got to know her.. and love her, but not for long, as I moved away.. wonder if she ever got over that meanness (bitterness?) She did very much love the lord.. so I figure He likely was able to mellow her out.. That's the hope! If they truly love Him!

"knowledge - gnosis - falsely called", the gostics. (grrrr!) - I wish I could completely connect the dots in my suspicion(?) that it's those pesky gnostics that managed to get that blasphemous and mean spirited hell myth inserted into the "good news". I did find out that they are considered by some to have been a pre christian loose collection of 'esoteric' elements of the world's indigenous beliefs (pagan). There are indications that Simon the Magus may have been a gnostic.. That gnostics were attracted by the new Christian faith's dynamic spread, popularity and miracles. You know, the up and coming new thing. But of course they never quite adhered to Christ.. maybe more like some new age ideas today..? Plus some groups were very licentious.. Because they believed the evil and the trouble with the world and mankind was matter and the body. So everything was evil, so what the hey, what did it matter what you did with the body as even eating and sleeping was evil. Somehow we had fallen into matter (instead of bad character!) Not that we won't have liberty from these frail and fading bodies we now have.. Even as awesome, and awesomely engineered, and put together they are!

Then of course we can trace the hell myth in the church, pretty much. What with "inferno" and threats of kings and priests to keep the peasants in line. And Dante.. And any number of what I increasingly think of as mean spirited preachers! And of course, or at least imo, the spirit foes will play all things.. use all things.. And so things change, and progress! Though I think the new age stuff is, and has, crept back in? (too)

I think of it like peer pressure (a shade of mob mentality?) Gotta believe those strong church doctrines.. (It's weird. Hard to believe anyone believes the gospel as it's portrayed, with hell and all.. and the loss of so much.. that YHWH is impotent.. the whole thing, so weird. And that the church is thought to be SUCH an authority (yet every other church is wrong! :dontknow: ) But, for the grace of God, however, there go I.. On the other side, we have atheism.. rather staunch in some quarters at that! And but for the grace of God, there too would silly, foolish I go stumbling after.. If not for Him. Thankfully, that's not part of my suffering.. A question I come back to time and time again is, why is untruth so strong?

(I've concluded it all, in my mind anyway, to the mystery babble forehead/psyche! Responsible for all slain upon Earth. Babble/all untruth?)
         :Peace2: God bless!

"Let everything that has breath, praise the LORD!"

[Abigail]

I feel that most christians I meet would like the idea of everyone being saved. Yet they are afraid UR is a heresy and therefore stay away from it and just kind of 'park' the hell idea in the back of their minds. I remember I thought that way and I was afraid to be misled. I even did not venture to ponder the idea because of this fear. God really had to supernaturally invent and convince me, and I'm glad He did, otherwise I'd become a mess.

One fruit of knowing the truth about Gods great salvation is I am not afraid anymore to ask any question or ponder any idea. As long as I discuss it with the Father.

[marie glen]

I feel that most christians I meet would like the idea of everyone being saved. Yet they are afraid UR is a heresy and therefore stay away from it and just kind of 'park' the hell idea in the back of their minds. I remember I thought that way and I was afraid to be misled. I even did not venture to ponder the idea because of this fear. God really had to supernaturally invent and convince me, and I'm glad He did, otherwise I'd become a mess.

One fruit of knowing the truth about Gods great salvation is I am not afraid anymore to ask any question or ponder any idea. As long as I discuss it with the Father.

      :cloud9: ... :cloud9:

[chester-blowfold]

[
But if we are to be 'saved' in this age, we have to remember that all this is taking place within the ecclesias/churches. The people who:  "...eat of the tree of life...may not be injured of the second death...eat from the hidden manna...rule them with a rod of iron...walk with me in white...may not go any more...sit with me in my throne...", those few, are those who come out from them and OVERCOME. Overcome what? To a great extent, see above Scriptures. Only a few within the ecclesias/churches will see this and actually ACT accordingly in order to be included with The Elect. I hope some of us here will be included. I hope that I may be included. If we don't overcome...we will not be. Isn't this what all the warning is about? Serious matters.
[/quote]Can you explain some more, please? The way I'm reading this is as if you believe in ET? Have I read you wrongly?

[sheila]

when blind guides lead the blind they both 'fall' in the pit[unseen] = stumble over this...and they agree with the adversaries satans[dragon doctrines] quickly..these are those who shrank back

to the law.......lest they have to be imprisoned until they pay the last penny. an 'exactor' passes through....do not be owing one another anything but to love your brother as yourself...

freely ye have received..freely forgive.   you get to eat your own flesh[carnal,beastly judgements,] works salvation judgements as ye have judged..with all the accompanying dread and terrors in

your religious prison.    I will meet them as a lion [devourer adversary],leopard[unable to change your spots ] and a bear [robbed of her cubs!]   But their agreement with the

hell,grave,sheol,death...will be annulled.      :2c:

[sheila]

 :2c:  2Samuel 22;26-28 and Psalms 18;25  to the merciful Thou will show thyself merciful.

[StevenL]

Can you explain some more, please? The way I'm reading this is as if you believe in ET? Have I read you wrongly?

No, I don't believe in eternal torment. Sorry to give that impression. Gotta work on my poor communication skills I suppose.  : ) 

[chester-blowfold]

Cheers steven