Hi. Over the last 8 months I've been shown and believe the truth of universal reconciliation, that Christ Jesus is the son of God and ultimate sacrifice for ALL sin, the trinity is not true, there are ages to come that only a few will participate in, and that Paul's writings bear witness to all the above. I also believe in the sovereignty of God over ALL things, including every step we take. All of this eliminates any guilt I may feel for actions taken or actions of others. God is responsible. All of the above actually makes me very happy and I do love God and Christ Jesus. It's as though we're all recruits in boot camp being made ready when and how God so chooses.
Now for the reason I'm upset with God. Given God created Adam knowing he would sin and leave that legacy for all who followed, why....given God set it up that way....would a loving God put his first created son through such agony and unspeakable torture to "cure" the sin problem? He sets it up, knowing Adam will fail, then puts Jesus through literal hell on earth, for what He created. Please, oh please will someone help me to understand what in the world God was thinking to do such a thing to Jesus !!!!!!! :dunno2: :dunno2:
:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
I might be overstepping my place here, but I have questioned the very same things you speak about.
Here is what I have learned. It is not up to me to know the mind of my God and Father.
My Father is perfect and all powerful. If he wanted mankind to live in a perfect paradise, he would have made it that way. Was God so angered by his own creation that he destroyed them all but for a few and 2 or more of every animal on Earth. The logistics alone would make this an impossible task. Feeding even a small number of wild animals requires and extraordinary amount of time, food and care. What about the flesh eaters? What did they eat?
Please know that I am not saying it didn't happen, just perhaps not to the scale we see today. Perhaps it was a story that was adapted to fill a need at the time. Nearly every nation has a flood story in ancient times.
The simple fact is that I can lose myself in all of the unanswered questions, but what does that say of my faith? Do I have to fear my God in the same way God required to feared in times long since passed. I say not. The Commandments of the Old Testament were a requirement to live. Jesus just told us to Love God, our neighbors and ourselves.
Love promotes happiness, good cheer. It's easier to smile and feel good towards everything. It is easier to trust. I will say that it is easier to sit quiet wherever you are comfortable and just meditate, listening to and for the small quiet voice of the spirit inside. Admit to God that you don't have all the answers and to yourself that you don't need them. Be open to the calming peace that I am sure will follow.
This has really helped me though some pretty tough times.
I hope this has helped a liitle :HeartThrob:
Love Julie
Hi bj!
I believe it was so that we could know sacrificial love in its truest and rawest form. Never forget that He laid it down of His own will.
John 10:17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.
He was obedient unto death. There is no greater love than this: that a man lay down his life for his friends. He showed us what we must do also, maybe not physically, but in the spiritual.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.
When we follow Him and His still small voice, like Julie was saying, we will also be beaten, bruised, spit on, mocked, betrayed and crucified by those we love. It is the only way. :HeartThrob:
BUT, like Paul said, I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. :HeartThrob:
Blessings.
:banana: :banana: :banana: Thank you !!!!! I'm now at peace. The laying down of Christ's life was MORE than a sacrifice for our sins. It was an example of love to be followed by believers. Got it !!!!! When I first became aware of the truth, I was told over and over again that the road was going to be rough. I'm now seeing it come to pass. God shows you the truth and you suddenly find you're very alone. It's just you and God. I see the purpose, but geez. At this point (I'm still new to this) I keep my mouth shut. To open it up to others is asking for trouble. Not news to any of you I'm sure. There will come a time though when I'm sure God will have me step out. Not sure I'm looking forward to that. Again, thank you. This forum, together with one or two other sites, is my safe haven. We all need each other so much. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
I hear you bj, it's a lonely road for sure! But Father is so good to us and always brings us what and who we need at just the right times. :HeartThrob:
Another thing I realized after pondering these things is that good times brings friends together but suffering with and for a friend... makes a bond that's unbreakable. Just my ponderings of the evening. :)
God bless! :HeartThrob:
Quote from: JulieTang84 on July 23, 2013, 03:49:14 AM
:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
The simple fact is that I can lose myself in all of the unanswered questions, but what does that say of my faith? Do I have to fear my God in the same way God required to feared in times long since passed. I say not. The Commandments of the Old Testament were a requirement to live. Jesus just told us to Love God, our neighbors and ourselves.
Love promotes happiness, good cheer. It's easier to smile and feel good towards everything. It is easier to trust. I will say that it is easier to sit quiet wherever you are comfortable and just meditate, listening to and for the small quiet voice of the spirit inside. Admit to God that you don't have all the answers and to yourself that you don't need them. Be open to the calming peace that I am sure will follow.
Love Julie
Julie, this is awesome!
Thanks for sharing your faith.
John :thumbsup:
Quote from: bj127 on July 23, 2013, 04:33:55 AM
:banana: :banana: :banana: Thank you !!!!! I'm now at peace. The laying down of Christ's life was MORE than a sacrifice for our sins. It was an example of love to be followed by believers. Got it !!!!! When I first became aware of the truth, I was told over and over again that the road was going to be rough. I'm now seeing it come to pass. God shows you the truth and you suddenly find you're very alone. It's just you and God. I see the purpose, but geez. At this point (I'm still new to this) I keep my mouth shut. To open it up to others is asking for trouble. Not news to any of you I'm sure. There will come a time though when I'm sure God will have me step out. Not sure I'm looking forward to that. Again, thank you. This forum, together with one or two other sites, is my safe haven. We all need each other so much. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
You just described
me! :thumbsup:
Quote from: lomarah on July 23, 2013, 05:20:01 AM
I hear you bj, it's a lonely road for sure! But Father is so good to us and always brings us what and who we need at just the right times. :HeartThrob:
Another thing I realized after pondering these things is that good times brings friends together but suffering with and for a friend... makes a bond that's unbreakable. Just my ponderings of the evening. :)
God bless! :HeartThrob:
Lonely is peaceful - because when you are alone with Yahweh, His love and peace is overwhelming unto joy! And how much greater is the joy when we find fellowship with other Truth believers! :banana:
BJ,
I see it like this:
God set everything up this way so that we would appreciate what we have been given. If one is born with a silver spoon in his mouth he does not appreciate his wealth. Like so, if we were put here into eternal life and perfection, we would never fully see how great is the Father's love for us. We would never fully see the power and glory of his sacrificial love. The old saying goes, "No pain, no gain." There is probably more truth in this than we understand. And another saying goes, "What don't kill you will make you stronger." The trials in this life will make us stronger in our relationship with the Father. They will be instrumental in opening our eyes to the full glory, power, and love of our God!
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: bj127 on July 23, 2013, 03:00:30 AM
Hi. Over the last 8 months I've been shown and believe the truth of universal reconciliation, that Christ Jesus is the son of God and ultimate sacrifice for ALL sin, the trinity is not true, there are ages to come that only a few will participate in, and that Paul's writings bear witness to all the above. I also believe in the sovereignty of God over ALL things, including every step we take. All of this eliminates any guilt I may feel for actions taken or actions of others. God is responsible. All of the above actually makes me very happy and I do love God and Christ Jesus. It's as though we're all recruits in boot camp being made ready when and how God so chooses.
Now for the reason I'm upset with God. Given God created Adam knowing he would sin and leave that legacy for all who followed, why....given God set it up that way....would a loving God put his first created son through such agony and unspeakable torture to "cure" the sin problem? He sets it up, knowing Adam will fail, then puts Jesus through literal hell on earth, for what He created. Please, oh please will someone help me to understand what in the world God was thinking to do such a thing to Jesus !!!!!!! :dunno2: :dunno2:
"It's as though we're all recruits in boot camp being made ready when and how God so chooses." - I love that!! :smile:
What was God thinking? You know my son 17 years ago asked me 2 questions, and I was not satisfied with my answers. The questions? (#1) why was the tree of knowing good and evil in the garden? and (#2) isn't it great we get to be an ant farm!?
So I prayed very hard to have better understanding and bam, bam! the answers came right away.. and ended with a question - Why did God wait SO LONG, and only create the universe and man and woman not only after the first bound-to-occur rebel thought occurred, but after it had matured into outright sedition, trickery and rebellion? Didn't God know what would happen?
:rolllol: :LH: Of course He did..
My son's question (#2) answered his question (#1)! Being, the whole ball of wax and Pandora's box, we are not an ant farm.
You see, Imo, I learned, God is both Life and also Perfection.. when He endowed thinking ability, a whole new world (er
tree) of possibilities 'came to be'. Yet, what was His other choice? No rational creatures ever?
Once one chooses (an offshoot of thinking ability, surely?) any teeny tiny thing other than exactly what God chooses, they become imperfect, the opposite of life/God. Hence, imo, death and suffering came to be.
But consider this, God being Life, lives through, suffers and experiences all suffering which ever occur!! why would He put Himself through all that?!
Because (surely? & imo) He's not creating an ant farm, nor robots, but His own family and an un-breakable paradise. Un-breakable for deeeply engraved and engrained upon every heart, mind and psyche will be the full knowing and understanding of good from evil which is also
life from death/nonlife, and true from untrue. Imo, we are learning we cannot wander from God, can't be done, can't wander from Life (and live) nada, cannot do it.
Why did He wait so long ("long" being, imo, when there was 'only' the Father, the Son and the angels, surely there wasn't all that much to go astray about.. hence long, long patient wait. He is SO patient, to create the best of all possibilities.) Why create the universe and man and woman after the 1st bound to occur rebel thought, has matured into the trickery of Eden, against Adam and Eve? i believe, so we would all take this unavoidable journey and lesson, all together.. otherwise one would wander astray now, another later.. and another.. later.. and so on taking virtually 'for ever'.
...unavoidable journey and lesson, that is, if there's to be thinking ability.
:Peace2:
and blessings...
..and as to the cross.. I believe it is a strong enough symbol to eventually pierce through EVERY psyche, even hitler and satan.. If He, be lifted up on the cross He will draw all.."
P.S.S. :laughing7: i Was reading Romans 6 this morning, so was reminded, Paul wrote of how "we died with Christ"
...the "wages" result "of sin" (and imperfection) "is death"
We "must be born again". And because we died with Jesus, we can/could be..
I believe we've all been upset with God, and I'm quite sure He does not take offense, etc. But one thing I've learned over the years (i'm 58, believer 34 years) is it's never He who's 'wrong'.. I also don't believe Jesus suffered against His will.. but was in agreement "from the foundation of the world"...
And their love is SO great :smile: how much would we, so flawed as we are, suffer to save one of our children (or grand children!) - the result of imperfection is death/nonlife - from perishing?
just my :2c: worth, God bless..!
Still rolling Christ's sacrifice around and through my mind. I've concluded (at this point) that His death was more than a full pardon of our sins. I believe that we have no free will, with the exception to think and reason. Actions are in God's hands. If I harm someone, or if someone else harms another, neither of us can ultimately be held accountable. The blame games come to a screeching halt and we have to lay the blame on God and trust that He is working all things toward the good. It's purely God's will for His glorification. A giant pill to swallow indeed. So, I now see Christ's crucifixion as the ultimate example of how far he and the father will go to demonstrate their love for each of us. Free will appears to be the largest misconception or deception among most Christians. Take free will away, together with the concept of ET and it all falls into place. Again....thoughts are welcome on the "forgiveness of sin" necessity by Christ's crucifixion.
God led me to the answer I sought !!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:
(Romans 5:18-21)
"Now what was the result of Adam's transgression? It was universal condemnation of all, without first consulting them or asking for their contribution. The result of Adam's disobedience was complete and universal in its scope and consequence, plunging each and every member of his race into sin and spiritual separation from God.
Now, just as Adam's sin had a direct, powerful, irresistible effect on the whole for evil, so the righteous act of Christ has a direct, powerful, irresistible effect on the whole for good. Just as one sin resulted in universal, real, actual condemnation, so the one act of righteousness performed by Christ, the second Adam, results in universal, real, actual justification, not just an opportunity to cast your lot in with Jesus, not just the offer of life, but the real, actual, powerful impartation of life! The real actual, powerful communication of righteousness! The plain language of the text allows for nothing less!" Thank you Micah
Quote from: bj127 on July 24, 2013, 08:16:11 PM
(Romans 5:18-21)
"Now what was the result of Adam's transgression? It was universal condemnation of all, without first consulting them or asking for their contribution. The result of Adam's disobedience was complete and universal in its scope and consequence, plunging each and every member of his race into sin and spiritual separation from God.
Now, just as Adam's sin had a direct, powerful, irresistible effect on the whole for evil, so the righteous act of Christ has a direct, powerful, irresistible effect on the whole for good. Just as one sin resulted in universal, real, actual condemnation, so the one act of righteousness performed by Christ, the second Adam, results in universal, real, actual justification, not just an opportunity to cast your lot in with Jesus, not just the offer of life, but the real, actual, powerful impartation of life! The real actual, powerful communication of righteousness! The plain language of the text allows for nothing less!" Thank you Micah
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