Hi everyone. I'm so happy to have found the tentmaker forums and it's message of hope and truth and mercy.
I'm a longtime poster on VigilantCitizen and can't stand it much anymore. A lot of the Christians there are angry and indoctrinated and have lashed out at me for sharing this lovely message. I'm excited to have found a group of people that see God for who he is, all powerful and with a plan, not a weakling or sadistic monster.
Here are my basic beliefs (I know some may differ from the site owners, but I am here to learn!)
~The Trinity is a false pagan belief. Yahweh is one, Jesus Christ is his son (or servant), the perfect human messiah given to us for our sins
~Hell is not a real place (NDE's are demonic visions that differ from person to person, culture to culture, religion to religion)
~All men will one day kneel and acknowledge Jesus is Lord and all will be saved
~The Lake of Fire is for purification. The words kolasis, basanizo, and theios have me thoroughly convinced.
~God chose those who would be the Bride before the foundation of the world
~I do believe in a pretribulation rapture and a literal millenial reign of Christ. I understand Jesus's gift of the cross and the breaking of bread, and the coming back to snatch the bride all coincides with the ancient Jewish wedding ritual.
He has changed my spirit in the last two years! A complete 180! I used to be a misanthrope and hated everyone, now I understand through this doctrine of salvation that most are just blinded, and they really should be loved. I have a yearning to learn the truth and pretty much everything I listed above is yet another 180 from what I believed as a church-goer. I now study the Bible by myself praying the Lord will be my guide instead of a pastor or any other man.
Hope to have some great conversations with you all. GB.
~Luna
Welcome lunarabbit,
We look forward to your input and will immediately ostracise you
for any beliefs that differ from ours in any way. We alone have the truth and are guardians of it.
All others will live wretched lives in fear and loathing Bu-wha-ha-ha :laugh:
Seriously. say anything you like as long as you remember to preface it with IMO or :2c:
cause even longtime members and moderators like myself
sometimes forget this is a discussion forum and isn't a debate forum :Peace2:
Welcome luna! Tent is definitely a breath of fresh air. (Usually.) ;)
Look forward to getting to know you!
Welcome, and pay a minimum of attention to ded2daworld, as he's here mostly for laughs. :LH:
Take him with a grain of salt, you know, the kind the cows lick... :gimmefive:
Welcome: I'm just over the moon about your name, it's just hare larious.
Now that I no longer believe in hell there seems to be no destination I can accuse those who disagree with me of going to. Oh well, you gotsta take the good with the dental floss.
Hope you have a great time here.
I'm curious, what made you abandon the notion of a trinity?
Thank you all for the welcome!
Quote from: ded2daworld
We look forward to your input and will immediately ostracise you
for any beliefs that differ from ours in any way. We alone have the truth and are guardians of it.
All others will live wretched lives in fear and loathing Bu-wha-ha-ha :laugh:
Seriously. say anything you like as long as you remember to preface it with IMO or :2c:
cause even longtime members and moderators like myself
sometimes forget this is a discussion forum and isn't a debate forum :Peace2:
LOL. That made me laugh. :laugh: I will try to keep that "IMO" thing in mind.
Quote from: VineBranch
Welcome: I'm just over the moon about your name, it's just hare larious.
Kind of just died... Bad puns are my thing. Haha.
Quote from: VineBranch
I'm curious, what made you abandon the notion of a trinity?
Well, it starts back in the summer of 2011. I was sitting in my cubicle at work bored so I started searching for podcasts to listen to. First came across
Coast 2 Coast and then Joe Rogan's talk thing (I'm really interested in the supernatural and the unexplained). Back then I was a backslider. Had been a Christian my whole life but was living with my boyfriend, getting tattoos, drinking/partying, just...a mess. Well, after listening to Rogan's podcast for a while he really started talking a lot about the Alien Gospels (the ancient megalithic structures being created by aliens, the pillar of fire and cloud in the story of Moses being ufos, us being seeded here through panspermia, etc). Well, my faith wasn't exactly strong but I had always been a believer in the Bible stories and listening to this deception got to me. I got really interested in studying it for about two months until I started getting this nauseous feeling in my spirit. I broke down one day, confused and disgusted in myself that I had turned from everything I had believed was true. I cried out to God to tell me the truth. I had never read the entire Bible before so I made it a point to read it every day until I was done, cover to cover. It took me two months...hours a day.
Well, I went into it asking God to help me read it with an open mind and open heart, without any of the doctrines or traditions I had grown up with. I didn't want to walk away with any belief that wasn't there. So just from reading, the Trinity, as well as eternal torment in Hell, was no where to be seen in my eyes anymore. This intrigued me because I had grown up having these things rammed down my throat in churches. So I had this burning fire to learn all I could, and to this day I still do. Looking into the history of the church, the surrounding religions (which throughout Europe, Middle East, and Asia all had their own form of trinity, and that the Elite's icon is the pyramid/triangle), the original languages of the scriptures, etc. I've since learned that there is not only no eternal torture, but no hell at all, that UR has a really excellent basis in scripture and actually sounds like Good News. So coming from this background, and still being fairly new to being truly saved (my heart has finally been changed in a noticeable way), I came to the understanding that knowing you know nothing is the beginning of wisdom. So, as I now feel I have a fairly good grasp on what I believe and why, I am not dead set on anything because I understand I am a human being and would be a fool to have pride in thinking I know it all. I just want to find the truth.
Luna, when I was doing pre-marital counseling, right at the end, he asked if I had any questions. I asked him to explain the trinity. What I received was the most non-sensical answer I could imagine. He drew the trinity picture for me, and that was his best explanation. This was no wishy washy pastor either, but was a teacher at the local seminary, that is considered very conservative, and biblical. I accepted it, and chalked it up to "something too great to put into words"
A few years later after I read the DaVinci code, and was "taken" by it, I realized I needed to own my faith. That sent me into a major study time. I didn't address trinity directly, and continued to operate in trinity mode. But I did start reading the bible more, and learning about church history.
A couple years ago I decided to search out trinity, and like you I found the evidence wanting. It was right around the time I decided to look up the rapture. They both fell at the same time. About 2 months later I was given the revelation of UR.
I'm actually more open to the concept now than I was before, not through studying, but realizing that I don't know much, and I've been wrong in the past.
I like to say God is an infinity
:2c:
Luna omg... it's almost like you are writing for me, that was totally weird lol. Then I'm like wow she sounds a lot like me, so I checked your age and you're only two years younger. :) I know exactly what you mean when you say you've realized you know nothing! God had to shoot me down pretty fast and hard for me to get it but I'm totally there now lol.
Super cute avatar btw lol!
@redhotmagma
Yeah, I've had debates with and had people try to explain their version of the trinity to me. That's just it...there were always different explanations and different versions and it was never clear. They'll say they don't believe modalism, but based on many areas in the scriptures the only way their theory of a monotheistic trinity works is if they turn to modalism. It just doesn't make sense to me. I had always just accepted it because people in authority told me it was the truth...now I see the majority is almost always wrong. :/
Which honestly worries me about the pre-trib rapture. I have studied it pretty extensively (1st century historical texts, scripture, the wedding feast, the character of God, etc) and see arguments for all sides (pre mid and post) having good points, but then see that most Churches believe in a pre. Then again, all churches believe Jesus is the Messiah, which isn't wrong. So lol, that's one of those areas I don't know if I'll ever figure out. Thank goodness it's not a salvation issue.
@lomarah
Isn't it cool how God works in people's lives? I've met a few others who have nearly the same story as me. And know of a ton of people who "woke up" and were brought back to God around the 2010/11 time frame. Makes me think things are gonna be going down soon and we need to be ready.
The age thing depresses me sometimes. I talk to my parents who constantly make me feel guilty about not attending a Church (I've never felt like I fit in in those places and now I know it's probably because they don't teach the truth). And I try to talk to them about the prophetic issues going on in our current world, or how my beliefs have changed. They don't want to hear any of it and think the only way to be right with the Lord is being a part of a building. Not to mention there's been plenty of people online who harass me and call me a "foolish little girl", "heretic", "pagan", and get this "Satan's little helper" Lol. Like somehow age automatically equals wisdom in these cranky online people's minds. It's very sad out there in the world. Gets me frustrated. :p
I'm 60. People that are weird about young people's views forget some things.
1.) Some of us olders have thought stupid things longer than you've been alive.
2.) I don't think I believe (hardly)anything I did when I was 28.
3.) Age doesn't bring wisdom but experience with God does.
4.) There is a difference between "30 years of experience" and one year of experience repeated 30 times.
5.) No matter how young or old or spiritual nobody on earth has it all exactly right.
6.) Just like politics and "Success" it's not what you know but who you know
The better you know God, the more all the little stuff will slip away and the more even the big stuff will become little stuff. :Peace2:
Quote from: ded2daworld
5.) No matter how young or old or spiritual nobody on earth has it all exactly right.
Yes, I definitely agree with this. I hope my last post didn't come off as haughty. :X
I don't think I have all the answers, I just don't understand the need to tear down others because of their age, gender, whatever. It's very...how do I say it...unloving? Unjust judgement? Unchristlike? Idk...
No, you're right and way ahead of many.
It's why labels on people belittle them and denigrate whatever it is they have to say.
Oh Luna I have been there so many times lol! Let's not forget our Lord was accused of working by the power of satan too. It's the way it's been basically from the beginning. The wicked religious spirit in man cannot bear to hear the freedom and truth of the Holy Spirit! (And I've been on both sides, this is not a condemnation on those who are bound to religion, they very truthfully do not know what they do.)
I also don't fit into the church system. And I haven't felt more free since I've left! (If Father wants me back there at some point I will go but right now He's called me to come out of her and I am greatly enjoying my freedom!) The biggest thing the church system did to me was infect me with horrid lies against my Father and make me blind and deaf to His Spirit. And I pray for the ones I had to leave behind because I can see the same things happening in them. (The last time I got together in a church setting with a pastor and his wife and my husband they all attacked me and the wife was holding my daughter who was then a year old and crying and telling me I was going to lead her astray. It was awesome fun. :sigh: ) But I've made some great "heretic" friends here on Tent and I love them all so dearly! (I still long for the day when I will be able to get together and fellowship with them in person. I really miss that.)
As an aside, if you want an interesting take on the rapture you should google Bill Britton's writing on it. (Or I can link it when I'm not on my phone lol.)
So glad to have you here!
Quote from: lunarabbit on January 29, 2013, 04:52:58 PM
So coming from this background, and still being fairly new to being truly saved (my heart has finally been changed in a noticeable way), I came to the understanding that knowing you know nothing is the beginning of wisdom. So, as I now feel I have a fairly good grasp on what I believe and why, I am not dead set on anything because I understand I am a human being and would be a fool to have pride in thinking I know it all. I just want to find the truth.
I get that, but in your first post you were adamently opposed to the trininty: "Here are my basic beliefs (I know some may differ from the site owners, but I am here to learn!)
~The Trinity is a false pagan belief. Yahweh is one, Jesus Christ is his son (or servant), the perfect human messiah given to us for our sins."
This makes it sound like your are anti-trinity, yet the explanation you gave seemed to suggest that you were merely concerned about the absence of evidence.
4.) There is a difference between "30 years of experience" and one year of experience repeated 30 times.
Buh-WHA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-AH ME OH MY
thas funny
Greeting, Luna. There seems to be a commonality here--we begin the journey of wisdom when we finally let go of any confidence in our own.
Thanks lomarah, I'll look that guy up.
Quote from: VineBranch on January 30, 2013, 06:01:56 AMI get that, but in your first post you were adamently opposed to the trininty: "Here are my basic beliefs (I know some may differ from the site owners, but I am here to learn!)
~The Trinity is a false pagan belief. Yahweh is one, Jesus Christ is his son (or servant), the perfect human messiah given to us for our sins."
This makes it sound like your are anti-trinity, yet the explanation you gave seemed to suggest that you were merely concerned about the absence of evidence.
I am opposed to the trinity, as I am with the idea of hell. IMO they weren't in the scriptures and after studying both topics pretty extensively they were found throughout religions dating back before Christianity and were never present in Judaism. The same god with three heads found in Egyptians and Babylonian art is the same image found in Catholic churches, which is what Protestantism came out of. I don't wish to get into a debate because it sounds you believe in the trinity, and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with anyone. :HeartThrob:
I'm here searching for the truth and maybe I worded what I did wrong. I don't feel I know the truth about anything except those two topics, in relation to what history and the scriptures have revealed to me about God without traditions clouding my judgement.
Quote from: lunarabbit on January 30, 2013, 04:05:44 PM
I am opposed to the trinity, as I am with the idea of hell. IMO they weren't in the scriptures and after studying both topics pretty extensively they were found throughout religions dating back before Christianity and were never present in Judaism. The same god with three heads found in Egyptians and Babylonian art is the same image found in Catholic churches, which is what Protestantism came out of. I don't wish to get into a debate because it sounds you believe in the trinity, and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with anyone. :HeartThrob:
I'm here searching for the truth and maybe I worded what I did wrong. I don't feel I know the truth about anything except those two topics, in relation to what history and the scriptures have revealed to me about God without traditions clouding my judgement.
I'm not for or against the trinity. It's a perspective thing in my world: I think it's more a heuristic device then anything else. I just saw a difference between the intensity of the claim, and the lack of such in the explanation. It's not a problem either way, just clarifying.
Perspective, yes. When I read in the Revelation that there were seven Spirits of God, I realized that meant this: 7 Spirits + 1 Father + 1 Son = a ninefold Godhead - a Trinity of Trinities.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 31, 2013, 01:02:55 AM
Perspective, yes. When I read in the Revelation that there were seven Spirits of God, I realized that meant this: 7 Spirits + 1 Father + 1 Son = a ninefold Godhead - a Trinity of Trinities.
You mentioned that before Laz. Sounds kinda exciting when you think about it: don't it?
Quote from: VineBranch on January 31, 2013, 04:54:28 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 31, 2013, 01:02:55 AM
Perspective, yes. When I read in the Revelation that there were seven Spirits of God, I realized that meant this: 7 Spirits + 1 Father + 1 Son = a ninefold Godhead - a Trinity of Trinities.
You mentioned that before Laz. Sounds kinda exciting when you think about it: don't it?
Based on various things, especially the layers of meaning and coding in the text of the Bible, I have come to believe that God is multi-layered and multi-dimensional - far beyond our present understanding, and far, far beyond a mere nine-fold Godhead.
Being made in His
image, I believe that WE are also multi-layered and multi-dimensional, again far beyond our own present understanding this side of the veil.
:iagree: like what is this Father of OURS!!!!????? that He sows His spiritual children a natural body seed..
of one realm[demension]..and they are raised up another realm? Truth is often more strange than fiction......
I know right?!?
Welcome Luna and gedday!
For me, God seems to be taking me on past doctrine to resting in His love...I mean, He is teaching us all the time inwardly...and our minds love to play with these things...but the substance is LOVE...spelt, Christ.
It seems the more he shows me Love, the less any doctrine seems important to me.
The more He shows me that I am His Love expressed as me in human form...the less I want to talk about doctrines.
I am not telling you or anyone to stop talking. But I think that is what happens to all of us...we are going from glory to glory out of the darkness of the carnal natural mind...to be who we have always been.
The end game of all this coming out of the darkness of churchianity, is LOve.
Since having my eyes opened about 13 months ago, I have fallen in love with myself for the first time...and consequently with God and with people!! Now it does not matter whether a person is a witch, satanist ,homosexual, Hindu, Moslem etc etc... I feel the Love of God pouring out of me to them. I do not have to say anything to them about doctrines of God....just serve them, love them, be myself with them. All of them will one day know their oneness with the Father of spirits after the darkness of our carnal minds has been removed by His fire.
:thumbsup:
Dennis
" 6.) Just like politics and "Success" it's not what you know but who you know
The better you know God, the more all the little stuff will slip away.."
Amen, Ded2daworld!! :smile:
Hi Luna! and everyone else..! I've actually thought of reintroducing myself, as even tho I've been coming here for a while now, it's been sort of sporadic but now I'm thinking I might be seen around here more often..
I'm thinking we all differ on some points but agree on the big one, second only perhaps to the truth of God and His Son, being UR. I agree it's so hard to talk to other believers about UR! Or, IMO, any other point of 'doctrine' for that matter! But that doesn't really bother me a lot. It does bother me that God's purely GOOD nature and image is blasphemed every day by this 'hell' doctrine.. But, hey! Truth wins in the 'end'! And only truth will be left standing..
I find when I communicate UR to 'un'believers I know, however, they usually end up nodding their heads and seem to have no problem understanding what I'm saying or what I say to back it up. (This is true too about Bible Prophecy and some other things as well.)
As far as trinity, I have a lot of trouble getting my teeth into anything which is a "mystery" or isn't backed up very clearly by scripture. Maybe one reason is I never was raised in Church, and I didn't last long "going to Church". I've pretty much not been taught much doctrine, etc. It's possible this might make me a little unbending in some of my own views, since I have a tendency to feel what I've learned has been by scripture and the Bible as a whole, itself.. not even studied via the internet.. And I'm a big fan of simplicity.. tho i think i may come off as rather intense (mostly because I am, rofl!)
I did do some research on the L. Ron Hubbard group, which has to do with that whole alien seeding thing.. right down to the claim of 'old gods' being aliens like dragons.. two moves away so to speak, with the serpent 'gods' being the next in line, or closer to us/earth - I guess the serpent 'gods' being offspring of the dragon ones.. and how the Judeo Christian God is the usurper.. Pretty fascinating stuff actually.. also includes how the dragon and serpent 'gods' are deliverers from ignorance and liberators.. open the eyes, etc.. Did ya know Ron L Hubbard (I can't think of the name of his group, dang it) worked with Aleister Crowley, famous 'warlock'? They did some rituals together to bring some entities through portals to the earth'plane' - shucks I could've told 'em we have plenty of entities already here and active upon planet earth! Anyway they conjured this guy they called "Lam" who looked a lot like those big headed with large eyes e.t's so popular a while back.. only instead of green he was grey..
"Scientology"! that's the name of the group.. Well, I could go on a little more, but I'm sure I've yakked on quite enough for one post..
P.S, Lomarah, I'm going to google Bill Britton's writing on the rapture..
Quote from: marie glen on February 03, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
...I'm going to google Bill Britton's writing on the rapture...
Hi marie.
I'd suggest you also do some research into the Latter Rain/Kingdom Now teachings. I believe certainly some of those teaching are scripturally sound, but look carefully. :2c:
"Test all things, hold to that which is good". Blessings.
http://www.remnantbiblestudies.com/index.html
I agree! This looks like a very good site!
and P.S. Jabcat, thanks I will! :smile:
I see that, yes it does. Awesome info, thanks!
Quote from: jabcat on February 03, 2013, 04:13:17 AM
Quote from: marie glen on February 03, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
...I'm going to google Bill Britton's writing on the rapture...
Hi marie.
I'd suggest you also do some research into the Latter Rain/Kingdom Now teachings. I believe certainly some of those teaching are scripturally sound, but look carefully. :2c:
"Test all things, hold to that which is good". Blessings.
George Warnock is one of the better Latter Rain teachers. His pamphlet, "The Feast of Tabernacles" is one of the best things I ever read.
http://www.georgewarnock.com/feast-main.html (http://www.georgewarnock.com/feast-main.html)
DeVerne Fromke is also a really excellent teacher/writer from that era.
"The Father receives a vast family of Sons like the First Born. The Son receives a glorious Body for His expression. The Holy Spirit receives a temple of living stones for his Eternal Abode." (Fromke)
Both Warnock and Fromke are still alive and ministering the Word in their 80's
Quote from: marie glen on February 03, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
I did do some research on the L. Ron Hubbard group, which has to do with that whole alien seeding thing.. right down to the claim of 'old gods' being aliens like dragons.. two moves away so to speak, with the serpent 'gods' being the next in line, or closer to us/earth - I guess the serpent 'gods' being offspring of the dragon ones.. and how the Judeo Christian God is the usurper.. Pretty fascinating stuff actually.. also includes how the dragon and serpent 'gods' are deliverers from ignorance and liberators.. open the eyes, etc.. Did ya know Ron L Hubbard (I can't think of the name of his group, dang it) worked with Aleister Crowley, famous 'warlock'? They did some rituals together to bring some entities through portals to the earth'plane' - shucks I could've told 'em we have plenty of entities already here and active upon planet earth! Anyway they conjured this guy they called "Lam" who looked a lot like those big headed with large eyes e.t's so popular a while back.. only instead of green he was grey..
"Scientology"! that's the name of the group.. Well, I could go on a little more, but I'm sure I've yakked on quite enough for one post..
I've done some research on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology too. Hubbard was a third-rate science-fiction writer. I know, because I read one of his novels, and I can tell you that Frank Herbert is a better writer, and Herbert wrote a lot of so-so fiction, besides
Dune. The fact is, that Hubbard founded and started Dianetics on a BET, won the bet, and got rich and famous to boot. It's all hokum.
Yep Laz is right ...a-gain.
L. Ron Hubbard told some friends of his one night that the absolute best way to get rich was to start your own religion. As long as it was believable and gave people that they could "arrive" by doing certain things to "progress" towards the (God/light/enlightenment/masterhood- whatever you wanted to call it), they would swallow it up. - and they have - not just the scientologists either. You can see it in many groups and cults and mainstream "christianity"
I always found it funny to read about Hubbard. He never seemed to be good at anything until he found a group of people who thought he had a secret. When he was in the navy he was actually put in charge of a ship on two separate occasions, both times his superiors found him 'unfit' to command. So when he left the navy he went to sea with a 'fleet' sailed by his followers.
I also found it interesting that when he was around, it was well known that he was a fraud. Britain, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Venezuela all refused his ship entry to their ports. Australia actually took away Scientology's status as a religion. A court in France convicted him of fraud. Yet here it is over thirty years after his death and he is pretty much deified by rich actors, and his third-rate novels are produced by them. Go figure.
Scientology is, and has for a long time been, a virulent prison of deception and manipulation of its "disciples"- about on the order of Su Young Moon and the "Children of God".
Quote from: eaglesway on February 04, 2013, 12:22:29 AM
Scientology is, and has for a long time been, a virulent prison of deception and manipulation of its "disciples"- about on the order of Su Young Moon and the "Children of God".
Appears to me Hubbard was nuts, in it for the money, or both. :2c:
He was also very intolerant of anyone who disagreed with him. Even now, the Sea Organization can at times put the Gestapo to shame.