Hi. I'm Harmony

[Harmony]

I was drawn to this site after dialogue with a counselor who is a Traditionalist Christian.  I remember many years ago visiting this site, and was drawn back to it recently after talking with my husband's counselor.  I didn't realize, up to that point, how very much turmoil I am still in over the issue of hell.

I'm slowly reading some things on this site.  But I guess I have been 'out of the loop' with Christianity for so long, a lot of it seems foreign to me.

I'm so far removed from being a 'scholar'.  I'm still in the 'church nursery', I guess.

I've had no fellowship with Christians for many, many years.  There is still a thick brick wall that I'm rather hesitant of approaching.  So, I do so very slowly and cautiously.

But somehow, I must get rid of all this intense rage over the pain I suffered at the hands of Christians.

I believe the only way for me is to learn the truth, and to accept others in their beliefs regardless of what their beliefs are.

When faced with my rage, humility just seems to go out the window. 

The damage done to me is extensive.  I left the Christian faith for many years, because it seemed that any contact with Christians meant certain pain, via the resurfacing of all past pain.

I approach Christianity now with extreme caution.  The only reason I'm revisiting Christianity now is that I began to run out of options.  Other religions helped me tremendously, but there was always something missing.  There was no spiritual  'connection', as there was when I was a child and loved Jesus.

I came to question the validity of the Bible, and even the existence of Jesus.  It just seemed that I kept running into too many contradictions.  I still can't make sense of these contradictions. 

But I still believe that I must find my way back to Jesus.  And I can't seem to do that with this thick brick wall of confusion, fear, anger, defeat, feelings of rejection, feelings of abandonment, etc.

I can't even pray.  My 'prayers' are simple.  My favorite one is "Help!'.  Short and to the point.

I recently began reading my Bible again, and purposefully did some 'picking and choosing'.  I read the texts that I found in a notebook I had started years and years ago (since abandoned) that had all the verses that spoke to my heart.

But one of these days, I may have to leave the nursery.  I'm beginning here.  I'm reading.  I'm searching.

At one time, my turmoil was so great, I got rid of all my concordances, bible helps, study books, sermon tapes, Christian music, and basically anything that smacked of Christianity.  I even got rid of my favorite Bible.  Now, I wish I had it.  It holds the history of my seeking in the underlined passages, the notes along the edges, the dog-eared pages that held the truths that kept me hanging on.

Bottom line.  The tortures of hell just can't be real if God is real.  If God is love.  It just can't be.

I'm here to learn.  I want to learn a lot of things.  Is the Bible 'really' the Word of God?  Is there any proof?  Did Jesus really die for all mankind?  Why did God create a humanity that He knew was going to rebel, causing so much suffering?

I'm taking it slow and easy.  I have to believe.  There's nowhere else to go, but to Him.

[ded2daworld]

Welcome Harmony,
Thank you for your backstory. I'm reminded when Jesus asked the apostles if they were going to leave him as the other disciples had. The reply was, "To whom could we go? You alone have the words of life."
The road ahead for you spiritually can be long or short. God is love is too fantastic a concept for most people. Understand God, you'll understand love. Understand Love, you'll understand God. We look forward to your input. :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

Harmony, you are further along than you realize, because unlike to many pew-warmers, you know already that most everything is rubbish, except Jesus the Christ.  All you need is Him.  I only hope that we can help you find your way...

You're in good company here - for instance, I'm an ex-atheist, and I don't think I'm the only one on this forum.  We have members from a lot of different backgrounds, and now with you here, we are even more harmonious.

Oh, and by the way, WELCOME!  :friendstu:

[jabcat]

I'm taking it slow and easy.  I have to believe.  There's nowhere else to go, but to Him.

Welcome, and blessings.  I hope you find peace, comfort, and encouragement here - that only comes through our Savior Yashua.

There's only one place to go
only one true hiding place I know
into the heart of the One who loves you so
There's only one place to go.

[eaglesway]

When searching through the desert lands of religion and churchianity, we stumble across friends and foes. As Corrie Ten Boom once said(the author of "The Hiding Place" and a believer in the salvation of all), "Just because the mouse is in the cookie jar doesnt make it a cookie."

Hannah Hurnard, author of "Hinds Feet on High Places" has also written some beautiful things for those who have been wounded in the house of Christian religion, which is a different house than the "house of prayer for all people" which is the tabernacle of our Lord Jesus.

Grace and peace to you, in the name of Jesus.

[lomarah]

Hi Harmony. (Beautiful name!)

Your story brought me to tears. A short time ago I was basically right where you are. I went to a bible university and came out more confused and anxious than ever. I was so disillusioned, especially with hell doctrine and Calvinism. I was at the point where I just wanted to give up on Christianity altogether, but like you I knew He really was the Way, I had "tasted and seen" at my conversion and I just couldn't let go of that. I had experienced God in such an amazing way at my conversion that I knew it was right.

Finally in my darkest hour of turmoil I cried out to God, "Lord if hell is good please show me because I'm just not seeing it!!" He very quickly led me to "UR" beliefs and to this site and forum, which was such a huge blessing in my life (and still is!).

When God led me to the truth that He was saving all of mankind I was shunned and told I was deceived and experienced much abuse at the hands of traditional Christians. These are the same people who were at one point some of my closest sisters and brothers in the Lord (and some family members as well). So to an extent I understand the hurt you are feeling and for a long time I also held on to rage and bitterness against them.

And like you I have also struggled with the fear of abandonment and rejection. I struggled with these fears for a long time. Very recently Father has set me free from them as He reveals His true nature to me (and He really IS Love!). Harmony please never be afraid to go to your Father or worry about Him rejecting or abandoning you. He never has and He never will.

I will pray for you as often as I think of it.  :HeartThrob:


'Taste and See'
[The words in brackets are the Holy Spirit, the very last line is the young woman and the Spirit together.]

Wounded and broken again
Will this cycle never end
Words fly like daggers through my heart
How do I make something stop that I didn't mean to start

Lord You tell me that You are good
You tell me that You are love
But how do I know that when I give You my heart you won't rip it apart too

(Taste and see)    
    
Lord you tell me that You will not forsake me
You've said that You will never leave me
But when all I've ever been is abandoned and rejected
How will I know You will be here for me
For always?

(Oh taste and see)

I've been deemed as worthless
By all those who've passed me by
They walk in and out of my life
And as they do they cry,
"Worthless! Stupid! Ugly! Useless!
Pathetic! Inadequate! Failure!" They're ruthless.

Lord I've heard that You cried for me, You died for me
To bring me life
But do I dare believe...
What if it's all deceiving
And You turn away when You get to know me too...

(Taste and see...)

What if i open my heart to You and You despise me too

(Come to me... taste and see...)
...

... I lay my heart before You Lord.
Here it is, fully Yours
To do whatever with You choose,
To either love or to abuse.
What will it be?

...Lord I feel You healing me!

(I love you. I have always loved You.
When you hurt I hurt, when you breathe I breathe, we are one my love,
Come and drink so deeply... Taste and see.)

(Oh taste and see!)

[Harmony]

Welcome Harmony,
Thank you for your backstory. I'm reminded when Jesus asked the apostles if they were going to leave him as the other disciples had. The reply was, "To whom could we go? You alone have the words of life."
The road ahead for you spiritually can be long or short. God is love is too fantastic a concept for most people. Understand God, you'll understand love. Understand Love, you'll understand God. We look forward to your input. :dsunny:

Thank you, ded2daworld.  So glad I rediscovered this site.  Am so looking forward to this new journey.

"To whom could we go?" reminds me of a song I've loved since my youth "Where Could I Go (but to the Lord)?"  It always brought tears to my eyes.

I really can't comprehend how anyone could truly know/understand God.

I guess to really 'know' Him is strictly a spiritual thing, and probably really out of our hands.  We can seek Him, but we can't make anything happen.  From what I've come to understand is that it's all in His hands.  His timing is not our timing.  His ways are not our ways.

I've known very few people who have tried as hard as I have to shorten my spiritual path to Him.  Guess I just lost steam in the process.  Too much noise from the peanut gallery.....the 'committee' in my head.

Harmony

[Harmony]

Harmony, you are further along than you realize, because unlike to many pew-warmers, you know already that most everything is rubbish, except Jesus the Christ.  All you need is Him.  I only hope that we can help you find your way...

You're in good company here - for instance, I'm an ex-atheist, and I don't think I'm the only one on this forum.  We have members from a lot of different backgrounds, and now with you here, we are even more harmonious.

Oh, and by the way, WELCOME!  :friendstu:

Thank you, Lazurus. 

At one point, I considered myself an atheist also.  But there in the hidden corners of my soul, there was Jesus.  I was never actually able to deny His existence, but I sure tried.

I do believe I've found the right place here.  Already, I am beginning to 'see' more clearly.  And there's never been a more critical time in my life when I needed to see more clearly.

I just need to keep remembering what you said.... "all I need is Him".

Harmony

[Harmony]

I'm taking it slow and easy.  I have to believe.  There's nowhere else to go, but to Him.

Welcome, and blessings.  I hope you find peace, comfort, and encouragement here - that only comes through our Savior Yashua.

There's only one place to go
only one true hiding place I know
into the heart of the One who loves you so
There's only one place to go.

Thank you, Jabcat!  I am already finding peace and comfort and encouragement!  I've read some articles on the site, watched a few videos, and yep.....looks like I came to the right place!

Thank you for being here to welcome me!

Harmony

[Harmony]

When searching through the desert lands of religion and churchianity, we stumble across friends and foes. As Corrie Ten Boom once said(the author of "The Hiding Place" and a believer in the salvation of all), "Just because the mouse is in the cookie jar doesnt make it a cookie."

Hannah Hurnard, author of "Hinds Feet on High Places" has also written some beautiful things for those who have been wounded in the house of Christian religion, which is a different house than the "house of prayer for all people" which is the tabernacle of our Lord Jesus.

Grace and peace to you, in the name of Jesus.

Eagle's Way, that was beautiful. 

I remember 'Hind's Feet on High Places' and 'The Hiding Place'.  If memory serves me right, my pastor gave them to me, many, many moons ago, when I still had a pastor.  They probably ended up with my concordances, Bibles, studies, and all things 'Christian'.....some sold, some given away, some donated.

When I landed back on the steps of the church, I was still fighting tooth and nail.  I 'came back' kicking and screaming.

As I'm 'coming out of the fog', I cringe to think of all that I ridded myself of.

My pastor was a very gentle soul face to face, but behind the pulpit, well.....that's a different story.  Another example of all the contradictions I faced.

As far as I was concerned, all those 'Christian' things were just taking up space in a world already crowded with too much useless stuff.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.

Harmony

[Harmony]

Hi Harmony. (Beautiful name!)

Your story brought me to tears. A short time ago I was basically right where you are. I went to a bible university and came out more confused and anxious than ever. I was so disillusioned, especially with hell doctrine and Calvinism. I was at the point where I just wanted to give up on Christianity altogether, but like you I knew He really was the Way, I had "tasted and seen" at my conversion and I just couldn't let go of that. I had experienced God in such an amazing way at my conversion that I knew it was right.

Finally in my darkest hour of turmoil I cried out to God, "Lord if hell is good please show me because I'm just not seeing it!!" He very quickly led me to "UR" beliefs and to this site and forum, which was such a huge blessing in my life (and still is!).

When God led me to the truth that He was saving all of mankind I was shunned and told I was deceived and experienced much abuse at the hands of traditional Christians. These are the same people who were at one point some of my closest sisters and brothers in the Lord (and some family members as well). So to an extent I understand the hurt you are feeling and for a long time I also held on to rage and bitterness against them.

And like you I have also struggled with the fear of abandonment and rejection. I struggled with these fears for a long time. Very recently Father has set me free from them as He reveals His true nature to me (and He really IS Love!). Harmony please never be afraid to go to your Father or worry about Him rejecting or abandoning you. He never has and He never will.

I will pray for you as often as I think of it.  :HeartThrob:


'Taste and See'
[The words in brackets are the Holy Spirit, the very last line is the young woman and the Spirit together.]

Wounded and broken again
Will this cycle never end
Words fly like daggers through my heart
How do I make something stop that I didn't mean to start

Lord You tell me that You are good
You tell me that You are love
But how do I know that when I give You my heart you won't rip it apart too

(Taste and see)     
     
Lord you tell me that You will not forsake me
You've said that You will never leave me
But when all I've ever been is abandoned and rejected
How will I know You will be here for me
For always?

(Oh taste and see)

I've been deemed as worthless
By all those who've passed me by
They walk in and out of my life
And as they do they cry,
"Worthless! Stupid! Ugly! Useless!
Pathetic! Inadequate! Failure!" They're ruthless.

Lord I've heard that You cried for me, You died for me
To bring me life
But do I dare believe...
What if it's all deceiving
And You turn away when You get to know me too...

(Taste and see...)

What if i open my heart to You and You despise me too

(Come to me... taste and see...)
...

... I lay my heart before You Lord.
Here it is, fully Yours
To do whatever with You choose,
To either love or to abuse.
What will it be?

...Lord I feel You healing me!

(I love you. I have always loved You.
When you hurt I hurt, when you breathe I breathe, we are one my love,
Come and drink so deeply... Taste and see.)

(Oh taste and see!)

Lomarah, you just stole my heart.  Your words made their way right into my heart, and wrapped their arms around me.  Thank you.  Truly, thank you!

If those words are a song, where can I find it?  I need to hear it.  I would love to hear those words put to music.  My heart aches to hear it!

May He continue to bless you in your journey!  And may He continue to heal those wounds, dear one.  Oh, how painful it has been!  Unending gratitude for your prayers!  I will also offer up prayers for you. 

Harmony

[misszoolander]

Harmony,
Your story is unfortunately quite a common one it seems, I too feel your pain.

Years and years of being fed all sorts of nonsense from church, I become a prodigal daughter. I did give up, but praise God he did not give up on me.

One thing I know about God is he does literally keep chasing you until you discover the truth.
How do you know what is truth? Well it sets you free... I'm talking FREE!
Free from the anxiety of ones own salvation, and free from the hurt and pain of another's "unbelief" of salvation.
Once one submits this all to God, the burden is lifted, and Jesus truly bears our yoke.

The great thing about UR is that you truly, truly believe you are saved, no more doubting.
Once this hits you, God begins to work his wonders first inside your heart.

:HeartThrob:

[Harmony]

Harmony,
Your story is unfortunately quite a common one it seems, I too feel your pain.

Years and years of being fed all sorts of nonsense from church, I become a prodigal daughter. I did give up, but praise God he did not give up on me.

One thing I know about God is he does literally keep chasing you until you discover the truth.
How do you know what is truth? Well it sets you free... I'm talking FREE!
Free from the anxiety of ones own salvation, and free from the hurt and pain of another's "unbelief" of salvation.
Once one submits this all to God, the burden is lifted, and Jesus truly bears our yoke.
The great thing about UR is that you truly, truly believe you are saved, no more doubting.
Once this hits you, God begins to work his wonders first inside your heart.

:HeartThrob:

Thank you, misszoolander!  I know what you mean.  I have, in the past, tried to relate this gospel to others, and have lost so many loved ones as a result.

Seems like my 'Christian friends' all disappeared.  Family members disappeared.  I was a heathen.  So eventually, I lost faith in UR too.  I didn't understand that I was going to be tormented for telling the truth.

Eventually, I just 'hung up my hat', and asked myself 'what's the point?'

It wasn't so much that I was chastened by my 'brothers and sisters', but that I felt abandoned once again by God. 

It's a long, tiring road sometimes, yes?

And more often, down right brutal.

But now, I think I can just 'wait upon the Lord'.....He will let me know when/how/where/to whom I should share, and I'm only to leave it in His capable hands.

This is all pretty weird to me right now.....I've been 'all over the map', .....and it seems I'm finally beginning to 'land'.

God only knows where it will take me.  God only knows where I will land.

But I'm deciding to trust in Him.  It's been a long time.  Trust has been a very hard thing for me.

Harmony

[Rhodes]

Hi and welcome Harmony! And for those who dont know me, I am welcome too.

You speak of contradictions Harmony, which is the opposite of your name...but the contradictions are actually a part of His working so that we come to see the truth which is hidden from the carnal mind. The carnal mind sees only separation and contradiction...but the spirit sees oneness and the perfect plan of Abba.
I am excited for you sister! You are going to have your mind exploded with joy! hahahaha
:laugh: :LH:
A book that is blessing my socks off is by Gary Sigler: Coming out of darkness, here - http://sigler.org/edarkness/edarkness.pdf
Bless you  :HeartThrob:

[Harmony]

Hi and welcome Harmony! And for those who dont know me, I am welcome too.

You speak of contradictions Harmony, which is the opposite of your name...but the contradictions are actually a part of His working so that we come to see the truth which is hidden from the carnal mind. The carnal mind sees only separation and contradiction...but the spirit sees oneness and the perfect plan of Abba.
I am excited for you sister! You are going to have your mind exploded with joy! hahahaha
:laugh: :LH:
A book that is blessing my socks off is by Gary Sigler: Coming out of darkness, here - http://sigler.org/edarkness/edarkness.pdf
Bless you  :HeartThrob:

All I can say to that is WOW!  Thank you for the link!  I'm nowhere near finishing it, but I've read enough now that I'm 'hooked'.....Blessings to you too!   :dsunny:

[lomarah]

Hi Harmony, so glad to see you back!

I wrote that song only a couple of weeks ago. I didn't have a plan to share it, but sort of knew somehow that the time would come when I would be supposed to share it. And I knew that was the time after reading your post. And it did exactly what it was meant to do -  made it's way into your heart and wrapped it's arms around you!

I haven't put it to music yet. I was planning on learning the guitar sometime soon and trying to find a nice tune to sing it to. If you have a musical gift you are welcome to! It's your song as much as it is mine. :)

God bless you as you continue to seek His face (and He will!!!).  :HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

I can't even pray. My 'prayers' are simple. My favorite one is "Help!'. Short and to the point.

wow I know that prayer. lol.   That was my favorite prayer for years.

When Jesus entered my life, the help came in bucket loads.  I pray that you will discover what it is like to have that kind of supernatural help soon!

Early on, one thing that I found very useful to me was listening to Christian radio.  There are a lot of good preachers out there who are anointed to lead people to Jesus.

Welcome!



46 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

--Psalm 46:1

[Lazarus Short]

I can't even pray. My 'prayers' are simple. My favorite one is "Help!'. Short and to the point.

wow I know that prayer. lol.   That was my favorite prayer for years.

I know what you both mean - the most effectual prayer I ever prayed went something like this:

"I'm sorry!"  [sob]  "I'm sorry!"  [sob] "I'm sorry!"  [sob]...

After I could pray no more, and was totally emptied out, God blessed me and lined me out about my life.

[lomarah]

Yeah my prayers often consist of one word : "Lord!" (And sobbing lol.)

[Harmony]

Just for fun.......something I found awhile back about prayer:

"The proper way for a man to pray,"
Said Deacon Lemuel Keyes,
"And the only proper attitude
Is down upon his knees."

"No, I should say the way to pray,"
Said Reverend Doctor Wise,
"Is standing straight with outstretched arms
And rapt and upturned eyes."

"Oh, no, no, no," said Elder Slow,
"Such posture is too proud.
A man should pray with eyes fast-closed
And head contritely bowed."

"It seems to me his hand should be
Austerely clasped in front
With both thumbs pointing toward the ground,"
Said Reverend Doctor Blunt.

"Well, I pray while resting every day,"
Said Mr. Henry Pack.
"So I should think you say your prayers
While lying on your back."
"Last year I fell in Murphy's well—
Headfirst," said Cyrus Brown.
"With both my knees a'stickin' up
And my head a'pointin' down."

"And I made a prayer right then and there,
The best prayer I ever said,
The prayingest prayer I ever prayed,
A'standing on my head."

"So, if your prayers come
From mouth and not from soul;
God may just someday let you
Fall into a hole!"

[lomarah]

Hahahaha good one!!!  :laugh:

[ded2daworld]

Back when soap operas were a really big thing - people just "had" to see what was gonna happen next. I heard a speaker at a convention say to the crowd. "I can tell you EXACTLY what's gonna happen next." That got their attention. He said every storyline and every charactor mimic our society and involve just three things. I guarantee you that every character in every show is:

1.) Is in some kind of serious trouble
2.) Is Just getting out of serious trouble
3.) or, Is about to get into serious trouble

I hope that there were no spoilers in that for you. :laughing7: :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

Just for fun.......something I found awhile back about prayer:

"The proper way for a man to pray,"
Said Deacon Lemuel Keyes,
"And the only proper attitude
Is down upon his knees."

"No, I should say the way to pray,"
Said Reverend Doctor Wise,
"Is standing straight with outstretched arms
And rapt and upturned eyes."

"Oh, no, no, no," said Elder Slow,
"Such posture is too proud.
A man should pray with eyes fast-closed
And head contritely bowed."

"It seems to me his hand should be
Austerely clasped in front
With both thumbs pointing toward the ground,"
Said Reverend Doctor Blunt.

"Well, I pray while resting every day,"
Said Mr. Henry Pack.
"So I should think you say your prayers
While lying on your back."
"Last year I fell in Murphy's well—
Headfirst," said Cyrus Brown.
"With both my knees a'stickin' up
And my head a'pointin' down."

"And I made a prayer right then and there,
The best prayer I ever said,
The prayingest prayer I ever prayed,
A'standing on my head."

"So, if your prayers come
From mouth and not from soul;
God may just someday let you
Fall into a hole!"

I'll add that my "I'm sorry! [sob]" prayer was made face down on my bedroom carpet.

A poet I used to know wrote this (as well as I can remember it):

Sitting on the toilet in the middle of the night
is a strange place to find you, God.

Any place/posture will do if the mind/heart are pure, or at least, getting there.

[Harmony]

I really wasn't mocking prayer.  It may seem that way, but I assure you, I've been in that hole many a time, and on the toilet, and on the carpet, and just about everywhere else, when all I could do was to cry out "HELP!".  And those cries were as sincere as anything I ever said.

I just think that sometimes, we get all hung up on ceremony, and forget that He is even in the picture.   

I'm rediscovering the reality that He is a living entity Who treasures our authentic prayers, even if they aren't 'proper'. 

Anyway, I found the poem funny.   

[ded2daworld]

I didn't think you were mocking prayer. What you said reminded me of what I said. Like David said, "there is no place I can go where you are not there lord."