Greetings from Germany.

[Forsakemenot]

Hello fellow citizens of the planet earth, I am a resident of the German capital, Berlin.
I tend to write a lot when I get into a topic, which can be a nuiceance to a lot of people. Therefore I have made it a habit to warn beforehand although I cannot actually tell beforehand the particular message I am currently working on is going to be long or short. Other than long, I tend to loose my mind at times and my words may not make sense always, I am half crazy and can't really help myself. I am fine being this way, I hope you will be fine with me too.

Everyone has a story, here is mine.

As a child I was introduced to the idea of the existence of God and believed it as most children would, I thought God was this old guy in the sky that you prayed to, and you went to heaven if you were good, to hell if you were bad. I had no real concept of heaven and hell though, I just assumed with my child logic that bad people needed to be confined somewhere, I probably thought it was like a prison or something. I had no real fears back then, never in my child mind would I have been able to begin to imagine the horrors and torment that would turn out to be common belief for most(?) christians.
My "faith" was superficial, tell a child something and that child believes, at least in young age.
I was not raised in a christian home, but I adapted the idea from "Church hours for children" which our daymother sent us children to, probably in order to get some relief once in a while, but mostly it was probably some kind of tradition.

As I got older, still being a child, I learned more about christianity as a whole and I came to despise christians.
There they were with all their holiness and kindness, smiling at me, practicing mildness and kindness, but it was all pretend to me. I never understood how they could be nice to me who did not believe in their God and thus was sentenced to burn in hell for all eternity.
I grew more and more bitter and came to hate christianity and all that it stood for. While denying the existence of God, I would still mock him because I was offended by the very idea of his existence. All that talk about love and forgiveness, it felt as though it meant nothing because in the end, there was no love and forgiveness in hell. And a love that did not extend beyond this lifetime was no love at all, it was nothing but deception.

Every christian I ever encountered was the same to me, a wolf in sheep's clothing, secretly conspiring and longing for the day their allmighty lord would devour me along with the rest of the useless trash that were not his beloved elect.

In my teens I met a boy, a christian boy, and he was completely different from anyone I had ever met. He was genuine in every kind of way, and for every question, he had a satisfying answer. Most importantly, he did not comdemn me to hell for not believeing. It was his own belief that God was misunderstood, more so than anyone, and that he was subjected to unfair judgement and prejudice.
Things changed inside me, it took many years but eventually I started coming around and trusting God.
I eventually learned that I had always loved God, I just never knew it because all that I thought I had known about God in the past was a lie. I had believed in the God of human traits, and what horritble traits he had been given by humanity. All of our flaws thrown right unto him and then declared holy and right. The God of my past might aswell have been the devil but worshipped all the same so long as he demanded it.

Once I realised that God was good, I was still struggling to love him. So many times I tried talking to God and I told him how sorry I was, but I just couldn't love him. I asked God "How can I love you when I don't know you?"
He eventually started showing me things, and the more I trusted him, the more he would show me.
It seems to me that God certainly met me half the way. He even took my personality into account in his way of approaching me, somehow showing me that he was not looking to destroy me or change me into something I was not, but to perfect me based on my internal structure. After all, God made me this way, all he needs to do is to refine each of his creatures. I learnt that God was had not created us out of minimalistic, perfectly shaped molds in order to be able to staple us on top of each other. Rather, God was an artist and a poet, everything he creates with uniqueness. It was a wonderful thing to learn, because during my journey, I had come to fear that he wanted me to change into something I was not. I feared becoming a robot, but he reassured me, and he did it my own way. It was as though God started reasoning with me, he treated me this way, took away all my fears. God was never the tyrant people made him out to be.
I have my fears still, but every time he reasons with me, I feel so calm. It's a wonderful thing. And he has shown me love, love for the whole world. Those times I was filled with this extreme love, it was wonderful, and for a moment I forgot all the horrible things people do and just saw them as the lost sould they were, we are all ill and wounded and in need of care.

I am so happy to have felt such a connection with him and finally gotten a real personal relationship with him, I really lacked it after accepting him, but he came to me when he thought I was ready for it.

Now I just somehow feel the need to meet others, because I want to meet others that believe, but not the ones who believe in eternal torment because they make me so sad and I feel that they do such a horrible thing to such a wonderful being.

I still sometimes struggle with the fear of hell somehow, I question myself, if perhaps I am crazy, and what if the "real" God really is what so many people seem to make of him. Even if it would destroy the perfection of love, I'd still have no say because even an evil God would be God if he was God. And an evil God could certainly claim to be a God of love and claim to never lie, but still be a liar.
But of course, I do not believe in this God that does not exist, I believe it is the definition of evil, nothing else.

If God is good, there is nothing to fear because love is stronger, otherweise love would have to surrender. And the feelings I have been filled with, they are there no matter what, and the fruit is certainly a good fruit.
There is nothing better than the love of universalism.


Still the carnal mind takes over at times, fear lurking around every corner. My fear of hell is what led me to the Tentmaker website, trough another website called "scared of hell" or something like that. I found Tentmaker and all the texts felt so filled with love. Then I came across this forum and everone seemed so nice. It's just so clear to me that if everyone was a universalist, I see no place for hate, torment and mindless suffering, even in this world. The world of universalism is a beautiful world, and I believe it is so because it somehow reflects the perfection of God.

But I believe God is extremely patient, and that we are all under construction for a very long time. I don't believe We will just suddenly be given a new mindset, because if we did, we would entirely loose ourselves. I believe that we are all to work towards changes little by little, every day so that we might be ready one day, and God gives us alls strenght to continue.
I believe that God does not intervene so much when it is something we can do ourselves. God has given us wonderful things on this earth, enough riches that everyone can have a piece and have their needs met, but God cannot sit above each head and distribute things justly because we can all do that by ourselves. We need to learn to be fair and kind and caring just like God.


I love this place.

And I am also really hoping to find, if there are, any Berlinian universalists. I somehow would like to have a church to go to just to feel that kind of closeness, but I don't know of any universalist church in Berlin.

I am very excited about this Forum and the fact that the attitude seems to be soft, loving and gentle. I am looking forward to a place where people are able to talk openly about their ideas and interpretations and beliefs without being ridiculed or trampled.


Thank you that this place exist. Thank you Tentmaker for existing, you are wonderful. And thank you all on this Forum for being you, you are also wonderful. And thank you God for all the love that exists also in this world.

Sincerely.

[lomarah]

Welcome forsakemenot and thanks for sharing your story.  :HeartThrob:
I do not know anyone in Berlin but if you pray for it Father may just bring you some peeps. ;)

[redhotmagma]

Hi there, welcome.  Most of us don't have "a church to go to", so this is our fellowship.  Anyway, welcome.   :dsunny:

[jabcat]

Hello.  I hope you are helped along your way here at TM, in the Life of Jesus our Savior.   

[sheila]

welcome!!!!      I,too,am half crazy!   Remember in the scriptures where Jesus family come to take him away,coz

they thought he had lost His mind?   U R in Good company!  :girlheart:

 

[Lazarus Short]

Welcome!  You were meant to be here from the foundation of the world.  :friendstu:

[mplsfitter539]

Greetings and Congratulations for finding us. Just curious have you been banned from any "Christian" chat rooms or forums. I can safely assure you that there are others here that have been also feel right at home here.  No one ever gets banned here for talking about the Victorious Gospel of Reconciliation.

[Eduard]

Willkommen :icon_jokercolor:

[Forsakemenot]

Thank you all <3

Greetings and Congratulations for finding us. Just curious have you been banned from any "Christian" chat rooms or forums. I can safely assure you that there are others here that have been also feel right at home here.  No one ever gets banned here for talking about the Victorious Gospel of Reconciliation.

Yes, in fact I have. And it was very saddening because that is not how I know God, a God of exclusion.

I started a rather controversial topic in a christian chatroom regarding the killing of little children. I wanted to point out that the killing of innocents was still far more humane than Eternal Torment, and also merciful due to the high number of ET believers also believeing in the age of accountability.

It surprised me that these people reacted so strongly and pleaded for the potential scenario to never occur whereas I countered with "If I am a parent, and I love my child knowing that this world will probably cause it to turn away from God and thus secure a place in the most horrid place we cannot even imagine, what evil is it to slay a child while it is still young enough to be accepted into the heavenly realms?"

I was met with much sceptisism, and found out that I had been muted for mocking their belief. I tried to explain myself to the person muting me, and I asked this person "Is hell real, and is it more horrible than anything that has ever existed on this earth?"

The person said "Hell is real, and it is worse than anything on earth, yes."

Then I said: "If age of accountability is true, can you honestly say that killing a child is wrong? Knowing that it will go to heaven if I do, and knowing that there is a big enough chance it will go to hell if I let it live. Can you tell me why I should not kill the child if I love it?"


The person did not answer me, and I asked if they were still there.

They answered "Yes." but said nothing more.


I then told this person that I will not bother them again because it is evident that my presence is not wanted, but that I wanted the person to know that I was never there to mock their belief, but to discuss and that my fears of a potential hell was real and that my reasoning regarding children was not a joke but that I genuinely felt that this would have been the only way if their belief was the true one.

After all, if I know I would be lost already in the case of an existing hell, and at the same time age of accountability was real, slaying every infant there ever was would be the only way to ensure no one will ever end up in hell after this generation.

Fortunitely, I cannot bring myself to believe in their torture chamber, I would go mad if I did. But sometimes my fear takes over and I feel as though I am swallowed up and consumed by it. What I experience is the absolute absence of all that is good, therefore I know it is not of God.

[sheila]

wow, I hope down the road that person doesn't kill their littl children....... :eek:

[Forsakemenot]

wow, I hope down the road that person doesn't kill their littl children....... :eek:

Yes. But the hopes are that once the facts are lined up, the people see the severity of their own doctrine and dare questioning it, researching.

It seems alot of people actually enjoy blurting ou judgements and throwing people in an emotional hell, every time I have tried discussing with these people, or seen others trying to discuss they are completely closed to any kind of idea other than their own. As if they hold the key to all truth, as if they have no doubt at all regarding their own beliefs.
Hopefully, when it becomes personal, it is no longer strangers that are burning in hell but possibly people they love, they might be more open to studying with an open heart.

Any madman could kill their own children, and it has even been done. There was a woman who killed her children in fear of them growing up and turning away from God. She killed them while they were still innocent in the eyes of God, who lives in the past present and future.
I don't blame this woman at all, I feel sorry for her, I blame the people who spread this evil doctrine without ever even considering that they might be wrong. I blame the people who fill people with incredible fear that drives them insane, I blame the people who think they have secured their own place in heaven while enjoying the idea that their hell will be filled with their enemies.

I believe that the kind of person who would kill their own children is a mentally instabile one that is afraid of hell rather than someone who spreads the doctrine with joy in their heart, causing people to fear God more than they love him.

[sheila]

True...............I had a lovely lady with alzheimers in my daycare..years ago.  and one day she got

on this rant against her sister who had 'took' her dress 65 years before. I finally began agreeing

with her,that it was wrong of her sister to do such  thing..that her 'anger' was justified..and even

suggested we do something about it! take it a step further..let's call the police! Have her locked up...


   at that point, this lady's love for her sister kicked in..and she rejected that step.

    And she ws ready to let it go. and peace was restored in the daycare.

   if she would of took me up on my suggestion...though..it would have further escalated the situation.

     for me,personally..at this point..I just don't know if 'playing into'their faulty reasoning is a 'technique'

   I should use.?

  ...it also kinda reminds me of King Solomon and 'cutting the baby in two' to expose the heart of

  the real 'mother'

     just some thoughts I'm pondering......

[lomarah]

Forsakemenot, I was led to UR beliefs because of the exact scenario you laid out for those people. I had always struggled with the idea of hell but when my little girl was born it all came to a head. I had so much fear that she would "reject God" and end up in hell. I finally cried out to God, "God if hell is good SHOW ME because I just don't see it!!!" It didn't take Him long to show me the opposite. :)


One thing we need to remember is that those who preach these things are for the most part (I would say at least 99%) completely deceived and in Jesus' words do not know what they are doing. I know when I was a hell believer I was in torment. It is not a fun place to be.  :eek:

(I had heard about the woman that killed her children over hell too... it made me so sad for her.  :bumbrage: )

[lomarah]

Yeah Sheila, we definitely need to be led by the Spirit in these things.  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

Hello fellow citizens of the planet earth, I am a resident of the German capital, Berlin.
I tend to write a lot when I get into a topic, which can be a nuiceance to a lot of people. Therefore I have made it a habit to warn beforehand although I cannot actually tell beforehand the particular message I am currently working on is going to be long or short. Other than long, I tend to loose my mind at times and my words may not make sense always, I am half crazy and can't really help myself. I am fine being this way, I hope you will be fine with me too.

:rolllol: :LH: I love that!! :banana:

Everyone has a story, here is mine.

As a child I was introduced to the idea of the existence of God and believed it as most children would, I thought God was this old guy in the sky that you prayed to, and you went to heaven if you were good, to hell if you were bad. I had no real concept of heaven and hell though, I just assumed with my child logic that bad people needed to be confined somewhere, I probably thought it was like a prison or something. I had no real fears back then, never in my child mind would I have been able to begin to imagine the horrors and torment that would turn out to be common belief for most(?) christians.
My "faith" was superficial, tell a child something and that child believes, at least in young age.
I was not raised in a christian home, but I adapted the idea from "Church hours for children" which our daymother sent us children to, probably in order to get some relief once in a while, but mostly it was probably some kind of tradition.

As I got older, still being a child, I learned more about christianity as a whole and I came to despise christians.
There they were with all their holiness and kindness, smiling at me, practicing mildness and kindness, but it was all pretend to me. I never understood how they could be nice to me who did not believe in their God and thus was sentenced to burn in hell for all eternity.
I grew more and more bitter and came to hate christianity and all that it stood for. While denying the existence of God, I would still mock him because I was offended by the very idea of his existence. All that talk about love and forgiveness, it felt as though it meant nothing because in the end, there was no love and forgiveness in hell. And a love that did not extend beyond this lifetime was no love at all, it was nothing but deception.

Every christian I ever encountered was the same to me, a wolf in sheep's clothing, secretly conspiring and longing for the day their allmighty lord would devour me along with the rest of the useless trash that were not his beloved elect.

  :iagree: that's why i think of this 'hell' doctrine as blasphemy! (Against God's good and pure nature and character!)

In my teens I met a boy, a christian boy, and he was completely different from anyone I had ever met. He was genuine in every kind of way, and for every question, he had a satisfying answer. Most importantly, he did not comdemn me to hell for not believeing. It was his own belief that God was misunderstood, more so than anyone, and that he was subjected to unfair judgement and prejudice.
Things changed inside me, it took many years but eventually I started coming around and trusting God.
I eventually learned that I had always loved God, I just never knew it because all that I thought I had known about God in the past was a lie. I had believed in the God of human traits, and what horritble traits he had been given by humanity. All of our flaws thrown right unto him and then declared holy and right. The God of my past might aswell have been the devil but worshipped all the same so long as he demanded it.

Once I realised that God was good, I was still struggling to love him. So many times I tried talking to God and I told him how sorry I was, but I just couldn't love him. I asked God "How can I love you when I don't know you?"
He eventually started showing me things, and the more I trusted him, the more he would show me.
It seems to me that God certainly met me half the way. He even took my personality into account in his way of approaching me, somehow showing me that he was not looking to destroy me or change me into something I was not, but to perfect me based on my internal structure. After all, God made me this way, all he needs to do is to refine each of his creatures.

:thumbsup: wisdom!  :smile:

I learnt that God was had not created us out of minimalistic, perfectly shaped molds in order to be able to staple us on top of each other. Rather, God was an artist and a poet, everything he creates with uniqueness. It was a wonderful thing to learn, because during my journey, I had come to fear that he wanted me to change into something I was not. I feared becoming a robot, but he reassured me, and he did it my own way. It was as though God started reasoning with me, he treated me this way, took away all my fears. God was never the tyrant people made him out to be.
I have my fears still, but every time he reasons with me, I feel so calm. It's a wonderful thing. And he has shown me love, love for the whole world. Those times I was filled with this extreme love, it was wonderful, and for a moment I forgot all the horrible things people do and just saw them as the lost sould they were, we are all ill and wounded and in need of care.

I am so happy to have felt such a connection with him and finally gotten a real personal relationship with him, I really lacked it after accepting him, but he came to me when he thought I was ready for it.

Now I just somehow feel the need to meet others, because I want to meet others that believe, but not the ones who believe in eternal torment because they make me so sad and I feel that they do such a horrible thing to such a wonderful being.

I still sometimes struggle with the fear of hell somehow, I question myself, if perhaps I am crazy, and what if the "real" God really is what so many people seem to make of him. Even if it would destroy the perfection of love, I'd still have no say because even an evil God would be God if he was God. And an evil God could certainly claim to be a God of love and claim to never lie, but still be a liar.
But of course, I do not believe in this God that does not exist, I believe it is the definition of evil, nothing else.

If God is good, there is nothing to fear because love is stronger, otherweise love would have to surrender. And the feelings I have been filled with, they are there no matter what, and the fruit is certainly a good fruit.
There is nothing better than the love of universalism.


Still the carnal mind takes over at times, fear lurking around every corner. My fear of hell is what led me to the Tentmaker website, trough another website called "scared of hell" or something like that. I found Tentmaker and all the texts felt so filled with love. Then I came across this forum and everone seemed so nice. It's just so clear to me that if everyone was a universalist, I see no place for hate, torment and mindless suffering, even in this world. The world of universalism is a beautiful world, and I believe it is so because it somehow reflects the perfection of God.

But I believe God is extremely patient, and that we are all under construction for a very long time. I don't believe We will just suddenly be given a new mindset, because if we did, we would entirely loose ourselves. I believe that we are all to work towards changes little by little, every day so that we might be ready one day, and God gives us alls strenght to continue.
I believe that God does not intervene so much when it is something we can do ourselves. God has given us wonderful things on this earth, enough riches that everyone can have a piece and have their needs met, but God cannot sit above each head and distribute things justly because we can all do that by ourselves. We need to learn to be fair and kind and caring just like God.


I love this place.

And I am also really hoping to find, if there are, any Berlinian universalists. I somehow would like to have a church to go to just to feel that kind of closeness, but I don't know of any universalist church in Berlin.

I am very excited about this Forum and the fact that the attitude seems to be soft, loving and gentle. I am looking forward to a place where people are able to talk openly about their ideas and interpretations and beliefs without being ridiculed or trampled.


Thank you that this place exist. Thank you Tentmaker for existing, you are wonderful. And thank you all on this Forum for being you, you are also wonderful. And thank you God for all the love that exists also in this world.

Sincerely.

It's SO wonderful to 'meet' you and to read this.. I kind of believe we will hear every testimony on judgement 'day'! (But it's 'heaven' to hear some of them now!!)
God bless!!!

[marie glen]

welcome!!!!      I,too,am half crazy!   Remember in the scriptures where Jesus family come to take him away,coz

they thought he had lost His mind?   U R in Good company!  :girlheart:

:rolllol:  :banana:  :iagree:

[marie glen]

It's funny (weird) but "age of accountability" which so many 'maninstream' believers believe in, is no where in the scriptures.. I suppose this (in some strange twilight zone) would make people more merciful than our Father in heaven! (Utterly impossible of course!)

[jbertonbounds]

Greetings from Alabama.
I love the fellowship on this forum.
UR is REAL.
UR is TRUE.

John

[Lazarus Short]

Greetings from Alabama.
I love the fellowship on this forum.
UR is REAL.
UR is TRUE.

John

You forgot:

UR is GOOD.

[Eduard]

And UR is in the Bible. ET really isn't.

[jbertonbounds]

Greetings from Alabama.
I love the fellowship on this forum.
UR is REAL.
UR is TRUE.

John

You forgot:

UR is GOOD.

:thumbsup: