Hello all....

[sscoulter]

Hi there. My name is Sam and I am obviously new here. I come from a Baptist background, sort of, and I am very interested in the doctrine of universal salvation/restoration. I am a "biblical unitarian", which is to say I have seen the error of the Trinity and many other doctrines of man.

Look forward to learning more and having fellowship with you all.


Peace.


S

[Paul Hazelwood]

Welcome

[Taffy]

Yo Sam
Howdy and welcome :icon_flower:

[chuckt]

 

author=sscoulter link=topic=4238.msg45497#msg45497 date=1231251931]
Hi there. My name is Sam and I am obviously new here. I come from a Baptist background, sort of, and I am very interested in the doctrine of universal salvation/restoration. I am a "biblical unitarian", which is to say I have seen the error of the Trinity and many other doctrines of man.

Look forward to learning more and having fellowship with you all.


Peace.


S

WOWZA

its me euty bro! welcome!!! woohoo!

what a trip, good to see ya!

inlove
chuckt AKA eutychus aka euty  :bgdance:

[sscoulter]

author=sscoulter link=topic=4238.msg45497#msg45497 date=1231251931]
Hi there. My name is Sam and I am obviously new here. I come from a Baptist background, sort of, and I am very interested in the doctrine of universal salvation/restoration. I am a "biblical unitarian", which is to say I have seen the error of the Trinity and many other doctrines of man.

Look forward to learning more and having fellowship with you all.


Peace.


S

WOWZA

its me euty bro! welcome!!! woohoo!

what a trip, good to see ya!

inlove
chuckt AKA eutychus aka euty  :bgdance:

Funny how this works out isn't it? When God blessed me with the desire to find the truth, no matter where it would lead me, I have been in for quite a personal journey to say the least. From being completely away from God's word, to taking it up again to expose my wife's religion, to questioning a doctrine in the Trinity that I always believed was truth, to now examining all the points of Calvinism and beyond.

Wow, indeed.

God bless you.


S

[Nathan]

author=sscoulter link=topic=4238.msg45497#msg45497 date=1231251931]
Hi there. My name is Sam and I am obviously new here. I come from a Baptist background, sort of, and I am very interested in the doctrine of universal salvation/restoration. I am a "biblical unitarian", which is to say I have seen the error of the Trinity and many other doctrines of man.

Look forward to learning more and having fellowship with you all.


Peace.


S

WOWZA

its me euty bro! welcome!!! woohoo!

what a trip, good to see ya!

inlove
chuckt AKA eutychus aka euty  :bgdance:

Funny how this works out isn't it? When God blessed me with the desire to find the truth, no matter where it would lead me, I have been in for quite a personal journey to say the least. From being completely away from God's word, to taking it up again to expose my wife's religion, to questioning a doctrine in the Trinity that I always believed was truth, to now examining all the points of Calvinism and beyond.

Wow, indeed.

God bless you.


S

Greetings to you!!  You stated something that really connected with me because it was my pursuit (still is) as well.

the desire to find the truth, no matter where it would lead me

It's that last part that will literally ruin you for ever going back to traditional church.  Because for me, Truth leads us beyond our self-inflicted boundaries of beliefs.  Once you cross that line, not only is there no going back, but the desire to continue moving forward only increases. It's an exciting road God has preplanned for his bride . . .it's an honor to be on it with you.

[sscoulter]

Greetings to you!!  You stated something that really connected with me because it was my pursuit (still is) as well.

the desire to find the truth, no matter where it would lead me

It's that last part that will literally ruin you for ever going back to traditional church.  Because for me, Truth leads us beyond our self-inflicted boundaries of beliefs.  Once you cross that line, not only is there no going back, but the desire to continue moving forward only increases. It's an exciting road God has preplanned for his bride . . .it's an honor to be on it with you.

Hello,

Yes, I am so ruined from ever going back to a traditional church. I have no animosity to any of them, but I cannot in good conscience consider being a "member" of such a group. It has indeed been a very wild ride. My wife is a Oneness Pentecostal, and I have a Baptist background. On my way to prove Oneness Pentecostalism wrong, I have found so much more I could no longer hold as truth.

God bless you,

S

[sven]

hello, im unitarian aswell, in Germany it seems for me, everyone who rejects the doctrine of trinity, also rejects the doctrine of hell, there must be a connection, i never met a unitarian saying he believes in hell

[chuckt]

hello, im unitarian aswell, in Germany it seems for me, everyone who rejects the doctrine of trinity, also rejects the doctrine of hell, there must be a connection, i never met a unitarian saying he believes in hell

Im neither a unitarian nor a trinitarian.

you can call me a heptitarian  :laughing7:

fir real though, whats an unitarian?

euty

[sven]

fir real though, whats an unitarian?

i believe there is only one God, the Father, the God of the Old Testament
i dont believe Jesus is God, i tend to believe he was a real human with no preexistence, as the Jews believe the Mashiach to be, another possibility is that Jesus is the first created beeing (but not an angel) the Son of God who became a real human. but this makes no sense for me sometimes. trinitarians say Jesus wasnt created but is eternal just as God is.

[chuckt]

fir real though, whats an unitarian?

i believe there is only one God, the Father, the God of the Old Testament
i dont believe Jesus is God, i tend to believe he was a real human with no preexistence, as the Jews believe the Mashiach to be, another possibility is that Jesus is the first created beeing (but not an angel) the Son of God who became a real human. but this makes no sense for me sometimes. trinitarians say Jesus wasnt created but is eternal just as God is.

danke

ive just heard many different definitions of ""unitarian"" and many people here in the states when you say you are UR they automatically think unitarian universalist, which is far from accurate.


Gott segnen

chuckt

[sven]

i gonna read a book about Arius soon, i think biblical unitarians are most called Arians, the Jehova Withnesses are considered to be Arians. Subordinated Binitarism i think it is called, came also into my mind, i have the impression the german concordant publishers might hold this view. but i would have the same effect, the son beeing his own father, the Messiah beeing God himself.

[sscoulter]

hello, im unitarian aswell, in Germany it seems for me, everyone who rejects the doctrine of trinity, also rejects the doctrine of hell, there must be a connection, i never met a unitarian saying he believes in hell

Interesting, thanks.


Peace.


S

[sscoulter]

fir real though, whats an unitarian?

i believe there is only one God, the Father, the God of the Old Testament
i dont believe Jesus is God, i tend to believe he was a real human with no preexistence, as the Jews believe the Mashiach to be, another possibility is that Jesus is the first created beeing (but not an angel) the Son of God who became a real human. but this makes no sense for me sometimes. trinitarians say Jesus wasnt created but is eternal just as God is.

danke

ive just heard many different definitions of ""unitarian"" and many people here in the states when you say you are UR they automatically think unitarian universalist, which is far from accurate.


Gott segnen

chuckt

Yes, "biblical unitarian", as I call myself, is a far cry from what I know of the Unitarian Universalist church.


S

[sscoulter]

i gonna read a book about Arius soon, i think biblical unitarians are most called Arians, the Jehova Withnesses are considered to be Arians. Subordinated Binitarism i think it is called, came also into my mind, i have the impression the german concordant publishers might hold this view. but i would have the same effect, the son beeing his own father, the Messiah beeing God himself.

I think we are called "Arians", but this is not exactly accurate as I understand it. Arius beleived, correct me if I am wrong, that Jesus was "adopted" at his baptism. This is not what I believe at all.

I agree, if Jesus is God, then he is his own Father.


S

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Welcome, Sam. Don't you love the way He does things, taking us in our own "craftiness" and turning us inside out in the process, LOL. He really cracks me up.

I'm interested in what you have to say about the Trinity. I got a glimpse of something in regards to that with another unrelated (seemingly) revelation He gave me, but I haven't got the revelation to make all the scriptures reconcile on it. There's so much of my foundation laid that revolves around it, it would be an earthquake of about 9.0 magnitude, if He revealed that to me. Nevertheless, I remain open to WHATEVER He wants to reveal as Spirit breathed Word.

Chuckt, I didn't know you were euty! I remember you as euty, always enjoyed your posts. No wonder "Chuckt's posts" were starting to look a little familiar  :winkgrin:.....Blessings to all....

[sscoulter]

:cloud9: Welcome, Sam. Don't you love the way He does things, taking us in our own "craftiness" and turning us inside out in the process, LOL. He really cracks me up.

I'm interested in what you have to say about the Trinity. I got a glimpse of something in regards to that with another unrelated (seemingly) revelation He gave me, but I haven't got the revelation to make all the scriptures reconcile on it. There's so much of my foundation laid that revolves around it, it would be an earthquake of about 9.0 magnitude, it He revealed that to me. Nevertheless, I remain open to WHATEVER He wants to reveal as Spirit breathed Word.

Chuckt, I didn't know you were euty! I remember you as euty, always enjoyed your posts. No wonder "Chuckt's posts" were starting to look a little familiar  :winkgrin:.....Blessings to all....

Hello Cardinal,

I would be glad to share with you my opinion about the Trinity, but where to begin? I was always a believer in the Trinity, although as a laymen only, but I lacked any real depth of understanding as to what the doctrine actually says. This is very common, as this doctrine is not often challenged in most of orthodox Christianity.

It all started when I set out to prove the doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism wrong. My wife is a Oneness Pentecostal, she was not when we married, but had been for years before I met her, and now is "in" church again. I had visited her church many times prior to her getting back "in", and I knew there was much wrong with their doctrine. So I sat down one day to write a paper on who exactly died on the cross, my life has not been the same since; and that was three years ago.

I approached the subject from the belief that Jesus was God, but "God the Son", as I had obviously believed all my life. In fact my father was a preacher and a missionary, and I grew up pretty much believing all that is called "orthodox". But as I began to work through my paper, I began to see that the "Oneness" believers indeed, as I had suspected, had a very real problem at the cross, and who really died there. You see the "Son", to a Oneness believer is just the human nature of the Godman Jesus. They say "he", the son, is just a "robe of flesh" that the Father (the ONE God) simply put on at the incarnation. They say without hesitation that "Jesus is the Father", so at the cross, they have only a dead human nature as a Savior, and no human person dead at all. This to me was an outright denial of the death of Jesus of Nazareth, needless to say. This also leaves them no mediator, not high priest, no advocate, etc. etc. but I digress..

But a funny thing happened, I also began to see they had a few very good points about the Trinity which made me ask some very good questions. And after my examination of Oneness Pentecostalism, I turned to study in earnest the doctrine of the Trinity, all while keeping in mind my concerns about the cross and who really and truly died there, I came to the orthodox doctrine of the "Hypostatic Union". Now mind you, I still believed in the Trinity, and wanted to believe in it, all the while reading and evaluating the very good arguments made against the doctrine. But when I began to study the doctrine of the HU, I saw something, something very frightening. I saw that in this doctrine, as well as in Oneness, there is a denial of the death of the person who is Jesus of Nazareth. Now it is not a denial on the surface, they will never who hold this to be true say they deny him, but it is a passive denial, the sum of what the doctrine truly teaches. And at the end of the day, I fear a passive denial is every bit as dangerous as an outward one.

The orthodox understanding is that Jesus is a "Godman", being both 100% "fully" human and 100% "fully" divine. Never mind that that would make him a 200% "fully" logical contradiction, but I digress. Having assumed that this doctrine is true, just for the sake of argument, then is the orthodox position any different than that of Oneness? We have a pre-existing divine "person" who "assumes" another second nature, therefore the sophists can say he is "fully human". But in reality, they will deny he is a human person! This is key, if he is NOT a true human PERSON, then we have only a dead body, or dead "added and assumed second human nature" on the cross. About the time a Trinitarian said to me that "God the Son did not die", I began to realize that there was a very serious error with this doctrine.

Since that time, God has opened my eyes to all the twists and turns of that figment of man's imagination. But, perhaps all this is for another time and another thread. Just know that I see many errors in this doctrine, assaulting reason and common sense, but the main issue that led me away from believing it to be true was the issue of who indeed died for me on that cross.

It was a very scary time for me, for a while, as we are all taught to fear questioning the Trinity. The thought of being called a heretic, or worse actually BEING one, and the thought of my Christian family turning from my fellowship, was quite daunting. However, after much fear I realized this one thing; God's word is truth, and not man's.

God bless you,

Peace.

S

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well, my "problem" began with Him waking me up in the middle of the night and speaking to me. It led me to see the Son differently, and let me tell you, at that moment, my Jacob soulish nature began to wrestle with the message of the Lord until some light appeared. It's still not all reconciled, as I said. I'm waiting before the Lord on it.

The funny thing is, when He rocks our world with a revelation, we instinctively dive into the scriptures thinking we'll reconcile this thing AWAY real quick, (or at least I do), but what invariably happens is, the light/life contained in all the other scriptures holding that particular truth that was previously shielded from our eyes prior to the revelation, suddenly is shielded no more, and we can't NOT see the revelation witnessed a hundred times over. And you think, "DRAT!" He did it again, now I'm a "heretic" a hundred times over, LOL.

So share when you are ready to share. I think there are a few here who have seen something along those lines, too. Can't say you won't go thru some "fire" over it, but God plants the hearing ear, and whoever is meant to hear anything at ANY time, will hear according to His perfect will for them. So the responsibility for hearing, is not on us, never has been. All we can do is share what has been given to us. Blessings to you...

[sven]

This to me was an outright denial of the death of Jesus of Nazareth, needless to say.

thats the point, to you think Jesus is 100% human, a perfect human, but still 100% a human? do you believe in preexistence?, just interested

[sscoulter]

thats the point, to you think Jesus is 100% human, a perfect human, but still 100% a human? do you believe in preexistence?, just interested

Yes he is 100% human, and much more, as he is called the "last Adam", our "brother" etc. etc. The problem for me and preexistence, is that if he preexisted as a "person", in a non-human form, then he is not really human at all. He is either two persons, one divine or other, and one human, or he is truly human, or not human at all (which is what I am afraid the doctrine of the HU leaves us with). Now, is he "perfect"? Of course. He is indeed God's only begotten Son, no other human was ever created the way he was, or has the relationship with God he has. Even while he walked this earth he had the spirit "without measure".

The key is to think of "personhood". The term "person", has a very specific definition according to theology, and not according to common sense, and this is so they can hold to the "Godman" teaching. I have seen many a Trinitarian say Jesus was "man", but they cannot say he was "A man". The difference is subtle, but very real and meaningful.

I believe a PERSON had to literally die and be raised from the dead for our redemption. In all of the "Godman" doctrines, the "God" part of the Godman does not die at all seeing they all must admit that God is immortal. And seeing how the "other" part is not a person for and by "its" self, well, you can see what we are left with. They have to argue he died "as a man" or "according to his human nature" etc. etc. It is this kind of backdoor talk that continues to expose the falsehood of the Trinity, but I digress.

Jesus said that his Father was greater than he, he said that he did not even come on his own but that "He sent me". Jesus was tempted, he prayed to God, he feared and had to trust God to deliver him from death, and on and on and on. All these truths about Jesus are rendered nonsense, if indeed he was really God Himself.

Jesus is the Son of the living God, not the living God who is his Father. Jesus asked Peter "whom do you say that I am". I stand with Peter....

Peace.


S

[ScarletWren]

Glad to have you hear, I think I spoke with you on another thread.

I no longer believe in the orthodox trinity tho I do believe Jesus pre-existed his incarnation. 

It is so true that it seems once you give up one precious doctrine, they all seem to start to crumble.  Sometimes I have almost wished I could go back.  There was much more fellowship with like minded believers, lol.  But I don't know how anyone could possibly return to the doctrine of ET once you see UR.

This place is really great!!

[MacPherson]

Hi there. My name is Sam and I am obviously new here. I come from a Baptist background, sort of, and I am very interested in the doctrine of universal salvation/restoration. I am a "biblical unitarian", which is to say I have seen the error of the Trinity and many other doctrines of man.

Look forward to learning more and having fellowship with you all.


Peace.


S

Howdy!
Don't go talking about the Trinity here. Gets folks all riled up. Seriously.
But, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either.

[MacPherson]

hello, im unitarian aswell, in Germany it seems for me, everyone who rejects the doctrine of trinity, also rejects the doctrine of hell, there must be a connection, i never met a unitarian saying he believes in hell

Just as long as you recognize that Unitarianism, isn't Christian Universalism. Especially Evangelical Christian Universalism. Baby. Bathwater. Throw. Not.

http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/index.php?sid=ecd9c8551760cfb31173deeceda9dbbe
http://www.evangelicaluniversalism.com/
http://evangelicaluniversalist.blogspot.com/

[sscoulter]

Howdy!
Don't go talking about the Trinity here. Gets folks all riled up. Seriously.
But, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either.

Uh, ok. So there is no free speach here? What are the banned topics?



S

[MacPherson]

Howdy!
Don't go talking about the Trinity here. Gets folks all riled up. Seriously.
But, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either.

Uh, ok. So there is no free speach here? What are the banned topics?

As far as free speech goes, this is a moderated forum. :Sparkletooth:
I'm not a Moderator, so I'm not instructing you. I just know the topic causes too much dissention, so the Mod's end up having to lock threads that have it etc. It's the only theological topic I know of that they don't want discussed here. Again, not because of the subject matter itself, but because of the problems discussing it leads to. You can talk to any member you want to about it by way of Personal Message though.