Arent we talkin to dead man?

[micah7:9]

Arent we talking to a "dead man" when we say that to walk on with the Lord, I must not listen to the "old man" or I must needs keep the "old man" from raising his head  daily? But if the the old man is dead
Rom 6:6  Of this taking note—that, our old man, was crucified together with him in order that the sinful body might be made powerless, that we should, no longer, be in servitude to sin;
Then, are  we not talking to a dead man? and the dead know not anything (Ecc. 9:5)
And if the old man is not dead, then we are not in a postion to marry (Rom. 7:2,3) and 1Co 7:39  A wife, is bound for as long a time as her husband is living; but, if the husband have fallen asleep, she is, free, to be married unto whom she pleaseth,—only, in the Lord;
So I contend the old man is dead. But then I wonder of myself how is it that I keep failing to walk in this life/world without being perfect/complete? Why do I find myself coming up short, even when I try to put all my efforts into not coming up short? O conclude to myslef, that it must be
2Th 2:3  That no one may cheat, you, in any one respect. Because that day will not set in —except the revolt come first, and there he revealed the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  The one who opposeth and exalteth himself on high against every one called God, or an object of worship; so that he, within the sanctuary of God, shall take his seat, showeth himself forth, that he is, God:—
Psa 82:6  I, said, Gods, ye are, Yea, sons of the Highest, are ye all;
Psa 82:7  But indeed, like the earth-born, shall ye die! And, like one of the princes, shall ye fall!

Ecc 3:18  Said, I, in my heart, as concerning the sons of men, That God was minded to prove them,—and that they might see, that they were beasts, of themselves.
Ecc 3:19  For, as regardeth the destiny of the sons of men and the destiny of beasts, one fate, have they, as dieth the one, so, dieth the other, and, one spirit, have they all,—and, the pre-eminence of man over beast, is nothing, for, all, were vanity:
Is my reasoning in error? Am I incorrect in seeing this as my answer?

[urpilgrim]

I hear you brother.... as a friend of mine use to say " I keep putting myself on the alter... but I keep crawling off"

Why? maybe this would help.... I have much comfort in this thought.


AWAITING OUR UNVEILING

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God" (Romans 8:19).

Let us notice some of the particulars of this passage.

o We are not yet manifest as the sons of God.

The world does not know who we are. Our sonship is completely hidden from them at this time.

o One day we shall be made manifest.

In the resurrection God will reveal to all of creation who His sons are. This will be a glorious coronation day.

o The rest of creation is awaiting this manifestation.

The whole creation groans and is eagerly awaiting redemption. They do not know about, nor understand this deliverance, but it is to be found in our manifestation. What a glorious day this fulfillment will be for all of creation.

Until our manifestation is made, the rest of God's creation does not know who we are. As we walk through the circumstances of our days, they will not reflect our true identity. In fact, we shall not be exempt from all the apparent vanities of this darkland. We shall have our share of the darkside: suffering, pain, discouragement, difficulties, weariness, pressure, and the like. But we are not defined by their details.   And although we are beckoned to the contrary on every side, we have a higher life – the high-life from above, from the lightland. We are called to walk in this radiant light.

As we go through the various details of this earthly life, let us not forget who we really are. Let us remember our divine calling and position as God's own sons. Let that be our day-by-day, moment-by-moment focus. And let us hold forth the word of life, so that we can see clearly who we are, and how we are to walk as honorable sons of God.

Clyde L. Pilkington, Jr.
© Bible Student's Notebook™

I pray that this may help

Grace and peace
Robert

[micah7:9]

You got that  right.

[urpilgrim]

"Why do I find myself coming up short, even when I try to put all my efforts into not coming up short?"

As I was re-reading your post, I was stopped by your words above. Note ... "I try" 

I was having a similar conversation with another brother yesterday.... and as reminded him also what I shared with above, I also reminded him that we are God's workmanship.

"For we are His workmanship ..." (Ephesians 2:10).

Sometimes the Christian life is filled with frustration, discouragement and guilt. These are all rooted in self-reliance, and are a failure of faith to lay hold on the reality of God's workmanship in our lives.

God is at work in you!

"Now unto Him Who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us" (Ephesians 3:20).

"For it is God Who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

William R. Newell well articulated the basis of the distresses of the Christian life:

"To `hope to be better' is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.

"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.

"To be discouraged is unbelief – as to God's purpose and plan of blessing for you.

"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God in ourselves." (Romans, Verse by Verse)

The fact is simple: we are not self-made; rather, "we are His workmanship" (Ephesians 2:10). The great, wise and mighty God of the universe is steadily at work in your life. You are His handiwork. He began the work, and He will finish it. This was Paul's confidence.

"Being confident of this very thing, that He Who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6).

It is the faithfulness of God that carries out this work in you, in us to its completion.

"Faithful is He Who calls you, Who also will do it" (I Thessalonians 5:24).

Things are not as they appear. This divine work in our lives will culminate in "EVERY MAN" having the praise of God. This means that one day God will praise you. How could it be otherwise, for after all, YOU ARE His workmanship!

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes ... and then shall every man have praise of God" (I Corinthians 4:5).

If it is true that God has made you and that you have not made yourself, if it is true that He began the work in you and will complete it, then why do you fret so? Why are you so anxious and troubled? Why are you so full of care, frustration and discouragement? After all, is He not God? Is He not in charge? Is not He the Creator, and you are His creature? Rest in the peace of this wonderful truth.

"Be careful for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:6-7).

"That He Who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6).

God's will for your life is good, well pleasing and perfect – as it is for all of His creation. We may not always be able to see it when we are caught up in the middle of some trial; but do not give way to the Adversary's attack upon the goodness of God and His will in your life. This is his modus operandi all the way back to Eden's garden – that God somehow withholds that which is good from us.

How do YOU imagine God's dealings in YOUR life?

What do YOU reckon as to HIS WILL? Do you doubt that HE has you exactly where HE wants you? Or, are you heeding the satanic questioning of the great wisdom of His will?

Find rest from all of the mental anguish that wars against the sovereign God. You will, with me, find this rest in the renewed mind; for faith casts down these challenges against the nature and character of Elohim – the Placer and Subjector – and embraces Father's will for our lives as good, and acceptable, and perfect. After all, would we really have it any other way than His will for our lives? Then give up the faithless struggle against it.

Again much thanks to my friend Clyde

Grace and peace Brother

[micah7:9]

You misunderstand I believe. My post was not about me, (yet it is) The "I try" is what I feel most people believe in the everyday of life.
What I was attempting to do was let it be known that the old man is dead, we are new creatures in Christ, still man is still in the flesh and Rom 7:17  So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.
Rom 8:6  For, what is preferred by the flesh, is death, whereas, what is preferred by the spirit, is life and peace;—
Rom 8:7  Inasmuch as, what is preferred by the flesh, is hostile towards God, for, unto the law of God, it doth not submit itself, neither in fact can it.—

[shawn]

Arent we talking to a "dead man" when we say that to walk on with the Lord, I must not listen to the "old man" or I must needs keep the "old man" from raising his head  daily? But if the the old man is dead
Rom 6:6  Of this taking note—that, our old man, was crucified together with him in order that the sinful body might be made powerless, that we should, no longer, be in servitude to sin;
Then, are  we not talking to a dead man? and the dead know not anything (Ecc. 9:5)
And if the old man is not dead, then we are not in a postion to marry (Rom. 7:2,3) and 1Co 7:39  A wife, is bound for as long a time as her husband is living; but, if the husband have fallen asleep, she is, free, to be married unto whom she pleaseth,—only, in the Lord;
So I contend the old man is dead. But then I wonder of myself how is it that I keep failing to walk in this life/world without being perfect/complete? Why do I find myself coming up short, even when I try to put all my efforts into not coming up short? O conclude to myslef, that it must be
2Th 2:3  That no one may cheat, you, in any one respect. Because that day will not set in —except the revolt come first, and there he revealed the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  The one who opposeth and exalteth himself on high against every one called God, or an object of worship; so that he, within the sanctuary of God, shall take his seat, showeth himself forth, that he is, God:—
Psa 82:6  I, said, Gods, ye are, Yea, sons of the Highest, are ye all;
Psa 82:7  But indeed, like the earth-born, shall ye die! And, like one of the princes, shall ye fall!

Ecc 3:18  Said, I, in my heart, as concerning the sons of men, That God was minded to prove them,—and that they might see, that they were beasts, of themselves.
Ecc 3:19  For, as regardeth the destiny of the sons of men and the destiny of beasts, one fate, have they, as dieth the one, so, dieth the other, and, one spirit, have they all,—and, the pre-eminence of man over beast, is nothing, for, all, were vanity:
Is my reasoning in error? Am I incorrect in seeing this as my answer?

What a terrific post.  I must say this is my favorite of yours and I appreciate the subject.  I often ask myself the same question.  Why do I still struggle?  Isn't that old man dead?  Paul struggled with the very same thing.

Romans 7
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.


Wow!  Paul struggled with his sinful nature? 

This is just my personal  :2c: but I believe the old man is dying daily...but dead when it comes to his ability to seperate us from God.  There is no more condemnation in Christ.  Death has no sting for believers.  But, if he had no more influence we wouldn't struggle with sin. 

[shawn]

I hear you brother.... as a friend of mine use to say " I keep putting myself on the alter... but I keep crawling off"

Why? maybe this would help.... I have much comfort in this thought.


AWAITING OUR UNVEILING

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God" (Romans 8:19).

Let us notice some of the particulars of this passage.

o We are not yet manifest as the sons of God.

The world does not know who we are. Our sonship is completely hidden from them at this time.

o One day we shall be made manifest.

In the resurrection God will reveal to all of creation who His sons are. This will be a glorious coronation day.

o The rest of creation is awaiting this manifestation.

The whole creation groans and is eagerly awaiting redemption. They do not know about, nor understand this deliverance, but it is to be found in our manifestation. What a glorious day this fulfillment will be for all of creation.

Until our manifestation is made, the rest of God's creation does not know who we are. As we walk through the circumstances of our days, they will not reflect our true identity. In fact, we shall not be exempt from all the apparent vanities of this darkland. We shall have our share of the darkside: suffering, pain, discouragement, difficulties, weariness, pressure, and the like. But we are not defined by their details.   And although we are beckoned to the contrary on every side, we have a higher life – the high-life from above, from the lightland. We are called to walk in this radiant light.

As we go through the various details of this earthly life, let us not forget who we really are. Let us remember our divine calling and position as God's own sons. Let that be our day-by-day, moment-by-moment focus. And let us hold forth the word of life, so that we can see clearly who we are, and how we are to walk as honorable sons of God.

Clyde L. Pilkington, Jr.
© Bible Student's Notebook™

I pray that this may help

Grace and peace
Robert

That is absolutely beautiful.

[urpilgrim]

 :mshock: Me sorry Micah7:9  :dontknow: 

Don't you just love this medium of communication  :mblush:

Blessing Brother

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen  :thumbsup:

[shawn]

You misunderstand I believe. My post was not about me, (yet it is) The "I try" is what I feel most people believe in the everyday of life.
What I was attempting to do was let it be known that the old man is dead, we are new creatures in Christ, still man is still in the flesh and Rom 7:17  So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.
Rom 8:6  For, what is preferred by the flesh, is death, whereas, what is preferred by the spirit, is life and peace;—
Rom 8:7  Inasmuch as, what is preferred by the flesh, is hostile towards God, for, unto the law of God, it doth not submit itself, neither in fact can it.—

I think that I and possibly many Christians still struggle with a semblance of self reliance.  From reading some of the other posts.  I am fully convinced of it.  I am indeed a new creature in Christ and this creature no longer sins.  But, my flesh burdened with sinful desires still wants to reach out and take from the world.  I must remind myself as much before I decide to bust out the whip to beat myself.

[shawn]

:mshock: Me sorry Micah7:9  :dontknow: 

Don't you just love this medium of communication  :mblush:

Blessing Brother

It was very helpful to me so I greatly appreciate your post.

[urpilgrim]

:mshock: Me sorry Micah7:9  :dontknow: 

Don't you just love this medium of communication  :mblush:

Blessing Brother

It was very helpful to me so I greatly appreciate your post.

I also  :sigh:

[CHB]

Arent we talking to a "dead man" when we say that to walk on with the Lord, I must not listen to the "old man" or I must needs keep the "old man" from raising his head  daily? But if the the old man is dead

If I may, I believe we should take ourselves out of the equation. We are dead in Christ only because of WHAT CHRIST DID, not what we need to do.

Rom 6:6  Of this taking note—that, our old man, was crucified together with him in order that the sinful body might be made powerless, that we should, no longer, be in servitude to sin;
Then, are  we not talking to a dead man? and the dead know not anything (Ecc. 9:5)
And if the old man is not dead, then we are not in a postion to marry (Rom. 7:2,3) and 1Co 7:39  A wife, is bound for as long a time as her husband is living; but, if the husband have fallen asleep, she is, free, to be married unto whom she pleaseth,—only, in the Lord;
So I contend the old man is dead. But then I wonder of myself how is it that I keep failing to walk in this life/world without being perfect/complete? Why do I find myself coming up short, even when I try to put all my efforts into not coming up short? O conclude to myslef, that it must be

I agree, the old man is dead. God doesn't see our efforts or failings all he sees is what Christ did.

2Th 2:3  That no one may cheat, you, in any one respect. Because that day will not set in —except the revolt come first, and there he revealed the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  The one who opposeth and exalteth himself on high against every one called God, or an object of worship; so that he, within the sanctuary of God, shall take his seat, showeth himself forth, that he is, God:—
Psa 82:6  I, said, Gods, ye are, Yea, sons of the Highest, are ye all;
Psa 82:7  But indeed, like the earth-born, shall ye die! And, like one of the princes, shall ye fall!

Ecc 3:18  Said, I, in my heart, as concerning the sons of men, That God was minded to prove them,—and that they might see, that they were beasts, of themselves.
Ecc 3:19  For, as regardeth the destiny of the sons of men and the destiny of beasts, one fate, have they, as dieth the one, so, dieth the other, and, one spirit, have they all,—and, the pre-eminence of man over beast, is nothing, for, all, were vanity:
Is my reasoning in error? Am I incorrect in seeing this as my answer?

I believe the old man is dead but the new nman is alive in Christ. We died with Christ, we were also resurrected with Christ. It is all about Christ and what he did.

just my  :2c:

CHB

[micah7:9]

Amen