Whats Love got to do with it ?

[rosered]

what's Love got to do with it ? EVERYTHING !!   in every way

 
I was talking to my sister late last night   and we were going in depth with some things
  and I was always amazed with   a conversation Jesus had with Peter     about do you LOVE ME ? 
there is 4 greek words in the bible   for Love and the subtle distinctions   between them
   you would never know that    by just  reading the written Word   in an English translation 
God is so clever   to make us hunt and dig  for His truth !! 

I will  first  share the 4 different    words  briefly and their subtle distinctions first

just to give   you an idea of what  love has to do with everything  in its own natures !   and God  and of course the  scriptures in John  21     15-25  withe  philo love and agapo love   and the  knowing   that Jesus possessed to understand  our hearts
   1   eros   is passionate love   with sensual  desire  and longing   although  eros   does not have to be sexual in nature   , it can be  interpreted as relationships    and marriage 
philia ,   like the Philadelphia church is known best by ''brotherly love ''    , this love is   loyalty   to friends and  family  and community  and a desire and enjoyment of same activities
  and Agape    love  is general affection   , love your neighbour as yourself   , and   unconditioal Love   where God is love , in  1 John 4;8     , lots more this is just a brief  summary of them  differences and meanings

and storge   love , this being the  natural affection     of parents for their offspring  ,  and the lack of this  described in  some verses  in the Bible

now for Peter and Jesus   interaction in John 21


"Peter do you love me?" And Peter responds "Yes, Lord you know that I love you." This exchange occurs three times. But to us who read the passage in English some of the subtle distinctions in vocabulary are lost. There is an interplay between two Greek words for love, Agapas and Philo. Jesus asks of Peter's love with one word, but Peter responds with another. There is also a subtle shift in the use of another verb meaning "to know." Peter moves from odias  to ginoskeis. Both can be translated "you know" but again the question is why the shift   from   you know and    you know /understand    what I am capable of loving in philo  and not agapo  Love






Jesus: "Simon, son of John, do you love (agapas) me more than these?"
Peter: "Yes, Lord, You know (oidas) that I love (philo) You."
Jesus: "Simon, son of John, do you love (agapas) me?"
Peter: "Yes, Lord, You know (oidas) that I love (philo) You."
Jesus: "Simon, son of John, do you love (phileis) me?"
Peter: "Lord, You know (oidas) everything; You know (ginoskeis) that I love (philo) You."

I   this is is amazing and also   Jesus told peter   in signifying      Peters death    how he would glorify God , the   philo love seems to lack and the agapo love seems to   Love to  death and  death cannot hold   this LOVE !! 

look How Jesus says feed my lambs  ,tend to my sheep   , feed my sheep if you love me  to death / agapo   unconditional love  , not the philo  love Peter  was hurt because he only had this  type of brotherly  love in him at the time

18 "I tell you the truth, when you were young, you were able to do as you liked; you dressed yourself and went wherever you wanted to go. But when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and others  will dress you and take you where you don't want to go." 19 Jesus said this to let him know by what kind of death he would glorify God. Then Jesus told him, "Follow me."



  Jesus  agapo love was  to death of the cross that could  destroy deaths hold on  all mankind and we have to  develop this love ,  that only comes from God though Jesus Christ ,  to be LIKE JESUS , the life giving Spirit    in truth   and  love /agapo and follow Him



I hope other will share with more Light and knowledge and understanding on this  facinating subject   !!

[JulieTang84]

My Goodness RoseRed  :HeartThrob:  Live and learn.


I have known of that exchange for as long as I can remember, but I never knew that Peter answered with a different word. WOW!!!


But looking at Strong's Greek Dictionary for the two words (see below), I can only come to two conclusions.


a)  This was a recognized way of speech in response to a question such as this
b)  That through time, the true meaning of the two words have been lost.


Though vs 17  (John 21) Jesus uses the same word as Peter (phileō) of which Peter again responded back using the same word.

Jesus did not sound displeased with Peters third and final response. Stating: "...Feed my sheep."

I think we need a Greek scholar.  :friendstu: 

Jesus used ἀγαπάω Transliteration agapaō  Pronunciation  ä-gä-pä'-ō (Key)
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) of persons
    a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly
2) of things
    a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing


Peter used φιλέω Transliteration phileō Pronunciation  fē-le'-ō (Key)
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to love
    a) to approve of
    b) to like
    c) sanction
    d) to treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, befriend
2) to show signs of love
    a) to kiss
3) to be fond of doing
    a) be wont, use to do


Perhaps the two words are interchangeable. If phileo means friendship and not godly love, then why does Christ use it in Revelation 3:19? "As many as I love (phileō), I rebuke".


There are other verses that similarly use 'phileo' where the word 'agape' would logically assumed.  John 20:2  Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved (phileō)
John 16:27  For the Father himself loveth (phileō) you, because ye have loved (phileō) me
John 5:20 For the Father loveth (phileō) the Son
John 11:3  Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest (phileō) is sick.
John 11:36  Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved (phileō) him!

Reading the context of these passages and being told that agape means godly love one might think this is the Greek word used in these passages. However, the word phileo is used in all. Both words mean love and are used interchangeably.

Could that we have been taught that Fathers love is different than our Love, is to keep us separate from Father?

Very interesting non the less.  :dsunny:

Thanks  :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[rosered]

 
Hi Julie , Well its all greek to me  lol ...  :thumbsup:
  I looked up some of the   4   differences of Love on  the internet , they go into alot more detail than the strongs ,  also not all seem to agree with the differences in meanings   
like   agapo being uncondintional love  , yet some of the Greek scolars  do agree with that  very   answer  .. :girlheart:



Eros (ἔρως érōs) is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "(romantic) love". However, eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone whom you love more than the philia love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage. Plato refined his own definition. Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. It should be noted Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction". Plato also said eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth by eros. The most famous ancient work on the subject of eros is Plato's Symposium, which is a discussion among the students of Socrates on the nature of eros.

Philia (φιλία philía), which means friendship in modern Greek, a dispassionate virtuous love, was a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philia denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers. This is the only other word for "love" used in the ancient text of the New Testament besides agape, but even then it is used substantially less frequently.

Agapē (ἀγάπη agápē) means "love" in modern day Greek, such as in the term s'agapo (Σ'αγαπώ), which means"I love you". In Ancient Greek it often refers to a general affection rather than the attraction suggested by "eros"; agape is used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one's children, and the feelings for a spouse. It can be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. The verb appears in the New Testament describing, amongst other things, the relationship between Jesus and the beloved disciple. In biblical literature, its meaning and usage is illustrated by self-sacrificing, giving love to all--both friend and enemy. It is used in Matthew 22:39, "Love your neighbour as yourself," and in John 15:12, "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you," and in 1 John 4:8, "God is love." However, the word "agape" is not always used in the New Testament in a positive sense. II Timothy 4:10 uses the word in a negative sense. The Apostle Paul writes,"For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved (agapo) this present world...." Thus the word "agape" is not always used of a divine love or the love of God. Christian commentators have expanded the original Greek definition to encompass a total commitment or self-sacrificial love for the thing loved. Because of its frequency of use in the New Testament, Christian writers have developed a significant amount of theology based solely on the interpretation of this word.

Storge (στοργή storgē) means "affection" in modern Greek; it is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family.
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There are a few Greek words for love, as the Greek language distinguishes how the word is used. Ancient Greek has four distinct words for love: agápe, éros, philía, and storgē. However, as with other languages, it has been historically difficult to separate the meanings of these words. Nonetheless, the senses in which these words were generally used are given below.

Agápe (ἀγάπη agápē[1]) means love in a "spiritual" sense. In the term s'agapo (Σ'αγαπώ), which means "I love you" in Ancient Greek, it often refers to a general affection or deeper sense of "true unconditional love" rather than the attraction suggested by "eros." This love is selfless; it gives and expects nothing in return. Agape is used in the biblical passage known as the "love chapter," 1 Corinthians 13, and is described there and throughout the New Testament as sacrificial and spiritual love. Whether the love given is returned or not, the person continues to love (even without any self-benefit). Agape is also used in ancient texts to denote feelings for one's children and the feelings for a spouse, and it was also used to refer to a love feast. It can also be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. Agape was used by Christians to express the unconditional love of God.
Éros (ἔρως érōs[2]) is "physical" passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. Romantic, pure emotion without the balance of logic. "Love at first sight". The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "intimate love;" however, eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone whom you love more than the philia, love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage. Plato refined his own definition: Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction." In the Symposium, the most famous ancient work on the subject, Plato has Socrates argue that eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth, the ideal "Form" of youthful beauty that leads us humans to feel erotic desire – thus suggesting that even that sensually-based love aspires to the non-corporeal, spiritual plane of existence; that is, finding its truth, just like finding any truth, leads to transcendence. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth through the means of eros.
Philia (φιλία philía[3]) "mental" love. It means affectionate regard or friendship in both ancient and modern Greek. This type of love has give and take. It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philos denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.
Storge (στοργή storgē[4]) means "affection" in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family. It is also known to express mere acceptance or putting up with situations, as in "loving" the tyrant.
Diotima of Mantinea
Greek love
Intellectual virtue – Greek words for knowledge
The Four Loves by C. S. Lewis.


  lots of opinions on this and  our faith to believe  ,   ps  C.S.Lewis    was quiet the  writer on alot of    good stuff in his day ,  I am certain  the Holy Spirit inspired alot of this thoughts 

[Tom H]

I'm no Greek scholar, but I only use Strong's for comparision once in a blue moon. I prefer this concordance. http://concordant.org/online/Concordant%20Literal%20NT%20with%20Keyword%20Concordance.pdf It can be dowloaded here. http://concordant.org/online/index.html I attached a couple of screenshots about "agape" and "phileo" from it that hopefully will clarify the difference.

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[micah7:9]

I find no inspiration in C. S. Lewis, but that is just me, and that ain't much. :dsunny:

[Lloyd]

An idea I've had for a few years: The main Love is Caring.

The universe exists because God cares.

Everyone has some Love, because everyone has some caring.

Even a mad tyrant has some Love, because he/she cares about having great influence or command.

A suicidal person has some Love, because he/she cares about being free from pain, whether the pain is loneliness, shame, misery, boredom etc.

A narcissist obviously has self-Love.

If there's someone who doesn't have any Love, I guess it would be the unconscious or mindless person. But someone cares about them too.

I suppose universalism entails the belief that the seeds of Love are in everyone.

[Warhawk17]

Wow, fascinating stuff! I was always a little confused as to exactly what this exchange was about, but this really sheds light on it learning that two different words were used. It's amazing what we find when we dig a little deeper into God's word.  :thumbsup: