The Vatican claims Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with Christianity

[Paul Hazelwood]

Because if people are just monkeys---there's apparently no end to what you can do to them.

What people do to others has nothing to do with whether a process of biology is correct or not or scientifically valid or not.   Nothing at all.


Just as the  FACT that my parents daily beat me in the name of this blessed God of Christianity that so gallantly teaches I am not a monkey does not make God disappear.


By your reasoning, God cannot exist in my world because of the attrocities done in the name of some a-hole sky fairy.

[Molly]

What people do to others has nothing to do with whether a process of biology is correct or not or scientifically valid or not.   Nothing at all.

This is true.

Neither does the Inquisition prove that God does or doesn't exist.

What people do with ideas that they claim to be factual and truth is what is at stake, nothing else.

It is the idea that is powerful, whether it is truthful or not.

And, if it is not truthful, it needs to be exposed if it is operating in an arena that requires truth, such as science.

For that matter, even in the area of religion, there is nothing in the New Testament or the teachings of Jesus that could justify even half the stuff done in his name.

[Cardinal]

And, more than that, teach them a philosophy of life which they claim is based on fact.  It's survival of the fittest--so kill or be killed--only the fit survive--and if the unfit happen to make it by, get rid of them the way Hitler did with the disabled and elderly, employing the theories of Darwin's cousin who applied this philosophy to people.

In fact, most don't know that many were forced to be sterilized in this country at this same time and based on these same theories.  Not to mention all the horrible 'scientific' experiments done on people in camps and later in hospitals.  The dark underbelly of this self styled 'scientific' theory and those related to it is a horror show that many are unaware of to this day.

Because if people are just monkeys---there's apparently no end to what you can do to them.

:cloud9: That's exactly what they did too, touting this relatively new "science" as a reason to exterminate those who had not "evolved" enough, and they actually had charts proving the Jews and gypsies had "inferior" cranial bone structure. Then it was just a hop, skip and a jump to exterminate other "lesser" individuals, such as the elderly, infirm, and mentally or physically disabled. Their "perfect Aryan race" was based on "scientific" studies of the day.

My uncle was one of the first to enter the camps, told of seeing people with their legs horribly infected and long incisions on them. The reason? The Nazi "doctors" wanted to see what the body could fight off, so opened up their legs surgically and then put sweepings from the floors in, and sewed them back up. They used them for guinea pigs as well, because after all, what use did they have except to be shot later?

As for the monkey thing, the Lord showed me why there is such a push to have people believe that image. A monkey cannot stand up perfectly straight (upright) as a human does. Upright is a natural image of His righteousness, which means, uprightness. Images and their interpretation are meant to convey information to the soul, which has a component of spirit, ie. the carnal mind. So any image interpretation that reinforces some opposition to God's truth, is from the adversary of our souls.

This is why one of the 10 words says not to make a graven image. Most western people overlook that one, as what western thinking person is going to rush out and carve something to worship, so they think they're "safe" on that one? But a graven image is more than carving out a calf out of gold, or a wood or clay image of something. It's an image of something of this "grave", a grave is something that is "carved" out of the earth/flesh of man. It's something that points to death, as opposed to pointing to life, specifically the life of the Spirit of Christ.

So then focusing on even a "scientific" theory that does not point to Christ or some aspect of His nature and glory, is spiritually speaking, making a graven image to worship, because that man created thing does not have the revealed nature of Christ in it. I'll go one farther than that even, because the same applies to any religious (from the carnal mind of man) ideas about God and His nature, as opposed to the Spirit revealed truth about Him and His nature. The Spirit came to us, to reveal Christ; that's His job, yet the carnal mind insists on trying to do it for Him, which = DEAD (or of the GRAVE/GRAVEN) works.

This principle, in a positive application, is why many in the scientific world are coming to God, because they are seeing His revealed nature in the creation, even in the numerical sciences, because anything that originated with God has to reveal His nature. So I'm all for them working hard to come up with theories, because if they are correct, they have just revealed an aspect of God's nature, and isn't that what we all want, ie. to see God more clearly? Blessings....

[Molly]

Cardinal how do you come up with this stuff? Never in a million years would I SEE any of that.  But, I knew it instinctually.  These symbols they manipulate--every time I see them, I cringe.  Every time I see the pictorial rendition of monkey to man, I cringe.  Look how they put it into language--Man is descended from the apes, not even ascended, but descended--our father is a monkey.  It has to be deliberate.

That movie they put out 30 years ago--2001?  The image at the beginning of a bunch of monkeys dancing around an obelisk and they throw a bone in the air and it becomes a spaceship orbiting the earth...

They have to know what they are doing, the ones who design these things.

Anyway, thank you!

[Andromeda_Organa]

great, now when are they gonna say women are equal to men and that priests can marry? :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Catholic priests have "knew" Marry  :boogie:

[Cardinal]

Cardinal how do you come up with this stuff? Never in a million years would I SEE any of that. 

:cloud9: HE showed me. It actually started with a dream, and I asked Him for understanding of the dream. Glad it blessed you...... :HeartThrob:

[Andromeda_Organa]

Catholic priests have "knew" Marry  :boogie:

huh?

[WhiteWings]

Just a word game. Marry - Mary

[sven]

I read something interesting not long ago, it seems Darwin rejected christianity due the teaching of hell, I've read that he said something like: "This text seems to say the unbelievers shall suffer eternal punishment, this is a damnable doctrine."

[Raggedy Anne]

Evolution does not threaten spirituality.

Paul,

I agree.   Interestingly, all throughout the scriptures that man is likened unto various animals.  Perhaps that is a hint.   

Peace -
Anne

[Paul Hazelwood]

Evolution does not threaten spirituality.

Paul,

I agree.   Interestingly, all throughout the scriptures that man is likened unto various animals.  Perhaps that is a hint.   

Peace -
Anne

The bible talks about man being "formed"  but thats not till Genesis 2

Genesis 1 man was created, Genesis 2 man was formed.   There is no detail along the lines of how specifically it was done.   Man actually fit along the basic lines of evolution.   Man was not first, man came along later just like in evolutionary theorys.   

The idea that evolution was used to abuse humans is a huge case of the pot calling rhe kettle black and does NOT make evolution false, period, darwinian or otherwise.   If that argument holds any weight then Christians need to see their own faith as false. 

But of course they won't live up to their own standards.   lol    Much of it is steeped in the fear of hell,  "oh noez, our children are being fed to the debil by de atheismz."

[Molly]

Evolution does not threaten spirituality.

Paul,

I agree.   Interestingly, all throughout the scriptures that man is likened unto various animals.  Perhaps that is a hint.   

Peace -
Anne

The bible talks about man being "formed"  but thats not till Genesis 2

Genesis 1 man was created, Genesis 2 man was formed.   There is no detail along the lines of how specifically it was done.   Man actually fit along the basic lines of evolution.   Man was not first, man came along later just like in evolutionary theorys.   

The idea that evolution was used to abuse humans is a huge case of the pot calling rhe kettle black and does NOT make evolution false, period, darwinian or otherwise.   If that argument holds any weight then Christians need to see their own faith as false. 

But of course they won't live up to their own standards.   lol    Much of it is steeped in the fear of hell,  "oh noez, our children are being fed to the debil by de atheismz."

Oh...since you can't prove evolution scientifically, you are now going to prove it using the Bible?

LOL!

Well, God could not find a suitable helper for Adam among the animal world or anywhere else, for that matter--that's why he made woman out of Adam's rib--one just like him.

20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

--Gen 2

[Cardinal]

The idea that evolution was used to abuse humans is a huge case of the pot calling rhe kettle black and does NOT make evolution false, period, darwinian or otherwise.   If that argument holds any weight then Christians need to see their own faith as false. 

:cloud9: I'm not sure what you mean here by the pot calling the kettle black in the context of what was being discussed.

Also, since evolution is such a slow process, it's odd to me that in at least the last 3 or 4 centuries (maybe more) that scientists who document new species found, ect., have yet to find anything in the "embarrassing" state of being almost something else.  :winkgrin: Joke intended. :icon_jokercolor: Blessings....

[Paul Hazelwood]

The idea that evolution was used to abuse humans is a huge case of the pot calling rhe kettle black and does NOT make evolution false, period, darwinian or otherwise.   If that argument holds any weight then Christians need to see their own faith as false. 

:cloud9: I'm not sure what you mean here by the pot calling the kettle black in the context of what was being discussed.

I am refering to messages pointing out that evolution was used as justification for bad things along with the assertions of it being false or that evolution should not be taught.

In light of religions past,  thats the context I see.

If we go back to the title of the thread.  I can make a statement that "No,  evolution is not compatible with "christianity", but it is easily compatible with the bible." 

[Molly]

The idea that evolution was used to abuse humans is a huge case of the pot calling rhe kettle black and does NOT make evolution false, period, darwinian or otherwise.   If that argument holds any weight then Christians need to see their own faith as false. 

:cloud9: I'm not sure what you mean here by the pot calling the kettle black in the context of what was being discussed.

I am refering to messages pointing out that evolution was used as justification for bad things along with the assertions of it being false or that evolution should not be taught.

In light of religions past,  thats the context I see.

If we go back to the title of the thread.  I can make a statement that "No,  evolution is not compatible with "christianity", but it is easily compatible with the bible." 

well I think you are right that the same spirit which is destroying science has been destroying religious teachings, that is, God's message to men.  Nothing new about that.  Didn't Jesus already point that out himself?


13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

--Mat 23



Those who hate him love death.

[Cardinal]

I am refering to messages pointing out that evolution was used as justification for bad things along with the assertions of it being false or that evolution should not be taught.

I am one who said that evolution was used for bad things, specifically the genocide of Jews, gypsies, the infirm, ect., but the fact it was used for this, is not what makes it bad or in error, IMO, nor did I mean to imply that. It stands or falls on it's own merits, or lack thereof. Blessings....

[Raggedy Anne]

Well, one thing is for sure and that is that there is a long process going on to bring man to perfection.  And there are plenty of men/women who do things very evil, things that even animals (whom we consider lower) do not do.  Which just goes to show you how depraved man is capable of being.  I actually think it is a PRIDE thing that kicks in when people get hot under the collar about the subject of EVOLUTION.   It seems clear to me that we are evolving.  And I believe God loves all living creatures.

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Beloved, we are God's children now, it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. {1 Jn 3:2-3 RSV}

[Paul Hazelwood]

Oh...since you can't prove evolution scientifically, you are now going to prove it using the Bible?

LOL!

Hi Molly,  where did I ever state I was going to prove evolution with the bible.   Please show me.

[Molly]

Oh...since you can't prove evolution scientifically, you are now going to prove it using the Bible?

LOL!

Hi Molly,  where did I ever state I was going to prove evolution with the bible.   Please show me.

Genesis 1 man was created, Genesis 2 man was formed.   There is no detail along the lines of how specifically it was done.  Man actually fit along the basic lines in evolutionary theorys.  Man was not first, man came along later just like in evolutionary theorys.

Interestingly, all throughout the scriptures that man is likened unto various animals.  Perhaps that is a hint.

But, this I agree with:

And there are plenty ofmen/women who do things very evil,things that even animals...do not do.

That should tell you something...

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi Molly,  I will clarify even though I still did not state that I was going to prove evolution with the bible.   

You do realize that seeing a scientific statement not being threatening to the bible is not the same thing as saying that it can be proven with the bible right?


I do agree that evolution is not compatible with "Christianity",  because that is simply an intepretation and not necessarily completely true.

[Paul Hazelwood]

And there are plenty of men/women who do things very evil, things that even animals (whom we consider lower) do not do. 

Well, if you take non-human world as a whole, I really fail to see where there is that large of a gap.

Might give some examples to see where your coming from though.

[Universalist Catholic]

Evolution is fact. Things evolve, nature evolves...this has been proven.

The THEORY of evolution is NOT fact. It's theory.

If it were proved to be fact, then, that would of course, not threaten my spirituality at all.
I have an open mind.
If that's how God brought it about, if that's the method he used for Creation... :dontknow: that's fine by me.

But how can the vatican "downplay intelligent design"... downplay a "Creator". That's the part I don't get.

People are always saying the theory of evolution is a fact, there is no God..
and I'm just sitting there thinking..  :dontknow: huh? 
Even IF the THEORY of evolution were to become a FACT, how does that mean there is no God?
I never understood that.

But then again, to be honest, if someone discovered the bible was a total fake, that wouldn't phase me too much, either. My belief in God is powerful and it transcends bibles and anything else in this world.

just my  :2c:

I dont think the Vatican is downplaying intelligent design.  They are pretty against the use of Evolution to try to disprove the existence of God.  But we understand that today, that the world is much older than a couple thousand years, nor was the world created in Six days. 

[Beloved Servant]

The "Vatican."
lol
They know nothing, nothing, nothing, for they have not HIM.

[Beloved Servant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veT1G-_aAsg&feature=related