The Apostle's Faith

[micah7:9]

A re-posted verse Heb 11:1 Now faith is an assumption of what is being expected, a conviction concerning matters which are not being observed;" :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[Psalm91:4]

I apologize if this is not the correct place to put this thread but I have a question about the apostle's faith. Is it safe to assume that the disciples would still believe in Jesus if they saw no miracles including his resurrection? If not why does God expect us to have the same level of faith when we never seen Jesus.

Jesus said more blessed are those who have believed but have not seen. Do these words have any grounds on what I gave said?

Just some verses to consider:

...16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."... Romans 10:16 -18

...7He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth." 9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.... Acts 1: 7 - 9

...25"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. John 14: 25 - 26

Romans 15:13Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

13 and the God of the hope shall fill you with all joy and peace in the believing, for your abounding in the hope in power of the Holy Spirit.


1 Thessalonians 1:5Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

5 because our good news did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance, even as ye have known of what sort we became among you because of you,

:2c:
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Psalm91:4 Replying here:

The more I considered this topic, something very basic stood out to me, concerning "hearing."

His sheep hear His voice and follow Him.

That's it!  :)  Those disciples were His sheep, He spoke, they obeyed His voice and followed Him.

It wasn't about seeing miracles or any such thing.  It was recognizing His VOICE.  Just like Adam recognized His Voice in
the garden.


John 10 NIV

The Shepherd and His Flock

1 "I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.
2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep.
3 The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."
6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.
8 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me--
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
19 At these words the Jews were again divided.
20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"
21 But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"
The Unbelief of the Jews
22 Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade.
24 The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one."
31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ?
35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?
37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
40 Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. Here he stayed
41 and many people came to him. They said, "Though John never performed a miraculous sign, all that John said about this man was true."
42 And in that place many believed in Jesus

[eaglesway]

Sometimes 'faith' can become a stressful word, that is, as I feel it's a condition or a work.
When I get tight about this, it helps me to bring it back to just trusting. There is in a sense no 'levels' in trusting. Trusting is not a work. Trusting cannot be forced on someone or required from someone. You just trust or you don't. When I distrust, I cry out to God to win my trust.
I found it also relieving to see a lot of scriptures that seem to be conditional (requiring our faith in Jesus) actually talk about the faith OF Jesus, as Micah has stated. The moment I see I don't have to bring up my own  :2c: it sets me free to become more childish and just trust. When I'm trying to 'have faith' I just get stuck.

I agree with that ENTIRELY Abigail. Trusting(imo) is the core thought in both the words "faith" and "believe/believing". Totally takes the sense of having to generate someting within ourselves out of the equation, and as I see it- exactly what the Lord and the apostles were thinking when using those words.

There is no "faith" that does not arise out of trust.