demons will die

[anti_nietzsche]

Hello,

from my experiences with a demon I have this new theory. I have discovered that these beings get really confused and scared if I tell them that they will die and loose their powers eventually. I also experienced once that saints and angels try to fish demon spirits from their dimension to lead them to their true dwelling place where they cannot harm humans anymore. Do you think that could be it? That demons are born innocent like humans are, and that the devil and the older demons tempt them always until they become evil too? So there should also be good spirits around. What do you think? Is there a way to be a christian shamanist who turns the evil spirits into good spirits again? Jesus apparently had mercy on the demons sometimes such as when he let them go into the herd of pigs and didn't send them into the abyss. Of course they are evil beings but like Daniel said, it can make sense to forgive even the devil. 

[eaglesway]

There are many things that can be speculated about demons, but it is better not to focus on such things, because they mostly lead into superficial acts of pseudo spirituality, and so-called understandings about things the Lord and the apostles counseled us not to look into.

The adversaries greatest weapon is to tempt us to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil rather than abiding in the fruitfulness and shade of the tree of life. What do we know about spiritual warfare?

Jesus quoted the scriptures back at the adversary on the mount of temptation, "It is Written"- know the scriptures, be immersed in the Spirit of Truth and the Word of God.

The apostles and disciples cast out demons in the name of Jesus, but the seven sons of Sceva were overcome by the demonic man because they did not themselves have the relationship that must accompany invoking the Name- seek that relationship and if spiritual warfare comes, "Christ in you" will overcome.

The seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by them that make peace- those who seek after esoteric knowledge become entrapped in things, "earthly, sensual and demonic" because the adversary represents himself as an "angel of light" and if he can just keep us talking to him, he will find a way to tangle us and tie us up in knots- better to say, "Get behind me!" and walk in wide open places, in the pure milk of the word and the presence of God- "Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith let us run with patience the race set before us."

[anti_nietzsche]

Sorry, eaglesway, but that was not particularly esoteric knowledge. After all, the New Testament does rather often confront us with the problem of the devil, and a solution must be found. DanielB is right, we must forgive the devil because he too is a living creature with emotions and fears and was a child once worth loving. I think in a way, demons use eye for an eye thinking and if we pray for them to get punished they use their powers on us. They are rugged and often primitive, but since I started to pray for the demon that harassed me sometimes, he gave up. I did that in this evening and now I am not feeling so scared anymore and I found hints about God wanting this for me from my tongue speaking.

[Dandelion]

8Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think on these things. 9Whatever you have learned and received and heard from me, and seen in me, put these things into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Philippians 4:8

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

Ephesians 6:10 - 18

D.

[Ross]

Christ was made a little lower than angels when He was on the earth, just like us.
He was raised and seated above the angels.
Because of Christ we too will be above angels.
Paul points out in1 Cor 6;3 that we will judge angels.
There has been interactions with angels recorded in the O.T.
Jude talks about them. [ Jude 6,9]
Paul points out there will be deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons by the hypocrisy of liars. [1 Tim 4;1]
Peter points out to resist the devil and he will flee from you.

All this, for me, points out these spirits, some good, some evil, were created by God.
They must have a reason for their existence.
I used to be trying to cast them out, thinking about how they must have legal access to allow them to be around me or in me.
Now I know I was protected during this time, and that time was used to show that the ecclesia are currently literally transferred to the kingdom of God by Christ and are being shown the security of the work of Christ which will be shown to others in their own time.

As pointed out by Dandelion- our armour is the knowledge that we are totally protected by Christ and we are righteous because of Him; there is NO failure by Christ- our own enemy is the concept that we are unrighteous- which effectively is diminishing what Christ did, and causes us to be trying to work out our own salvation. The huge difference between the law and grace. The law was necessary to highlight the grace and appreciate the grace. Yet we are raised to the position of righteousness completely by Christ and are no longer trying to justify ourselves, but love and appreciate Christ in full.
Demons try to cause doubts by pointing out our mistakes/sins.
THEY know the law.
WE know the grace, which exceeds the law.

[marie glen]

It's good to read (regularly, imo) the verses on wearing the armor of God.. with the large covering shield of faith (trust?)... the sWord of the Spirit, the Word which slices through every lie, error, falsehood, ultimately will put everything into proper perspective being as it points to (and is) truth..

To resist the enemy and he'll flee..

I know there's different views on the verses which refer to, is it the king of Babylon.. "how art thou fallen from heaven lucifer.." that it doesn't include within it 'prophecy' that it refers also to the original, or that is, the first adversary (Isaiah 14).. Wait a minute, I'm thinking of two verses.. same different views.. the other is in Ezekiel (28) "You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you."

Which verse I also think refers to the first adversary which Revelation 12 says 1/3 of the "stars" ("the stars are angels" last verse Rev 1) followed him. Then there's the verse which mentions angel's who left their first place.. some think of these as a separate class but I don't think I've come across any verses saying so..

So I think of them as rebels and full of tricks and deception. I prefer not to consider them much at all ..

Like sister D. quoted"whatever things are lovely and of good report, think on these things". I Ben tend to think any negative mental perception is a bad report and I resist it.. maybe order it away in the name of Jesus..

Is there a verse that says not to communicate with the rebel angels? But also to not call them names, etc.. although that's not how it says it, but I can't think of the verse..

I don't believe we need to fret over them.. I do wish we could order them into an abyss or at least into a "sea of forgetfulness" as I do believe they harass, oppress and harm many.. (but that's part of imperfection isn't it? that it includes, ultimately, all manner of wrong-ness-es, frauds and oppressions and abuses? As it tends toward dog eat dog..)

It seems to me the only way to avoid a time of imperfection, would be to never endow man, creature, or angel (no creature ever?!) with thinking ability.. because thinking ability includes (surely?) the ability to make choices. [Not the choice of when they return to God.. that is a choice imperfection, I take it, has no ability to make!]

I do know both Colossians 1:20 and Ephesians 1:10 say "all things in heaven and earth are being gathered into Jesus" so I figure that's the plan of God concerning "all" people and even the fallen angels, and He will fully accomplish it. But He says the good news/message will be preached to all nations and his followers are to tell all people but though I have, I believe, the spirit of forgiveness (in the day of it) concerning fallen angels, I lean toward ignoring them and they will go away..

sorry for any typos.. a pain editing on iPhone.. (tho sometimes the typos are so bad I hAve to correct 'em)
:Peace2:

[eaglesway]

There are no verses that refer to demons dying, so its a discussion that does not need to be had. But as for the response from anti- you have to realize that I reply to topics in a general way, so don't take it personally- just keeping the forum on the main highway,in the scriptures and the testimony of Jesus and the apostles and prophets.

[DanielB]

"Is there a way to be a christian shamanist who turns the evil spirits into good spirits again? Jesus apparently had mercy on the demons sometimes such as when he let them go into the herd of pigs and didn't send them into the abyss. Of course they are evil beings but like Daniel said, it can make sense to forgive even the devil."

I see no harm in praying for them but I wouldn't try to convert them and Jesus is the one that transforms hearts. We don't know much about demons and I don't know if they would even understand us and if they did, I suspect they would not find our arguments or words very compelling. If they truly decided to pick a fight with God, we should assume that they are lacking in the "reason" and "logic" departments(that we will not be able to get them to see reason)!

I do care about them when I consider that they are living beings and it would unthinkable for God to abandon them but I think it makes the most sense to treat them like enemies and let God himself worry about saving them. I see them like dangerous animals(but in a more extreme way). It is pretty sad that cats(for example) have been twisted so much(from their God-given design) that they are now killers(and seem to like killing) and must kill to survive and how they live their lives in paranoia, insecurity, etc but if a big cat or a predator was trying to kill me or someone else, I would not hesitate to kill it if necessary(even though I would not hate them or hold it against them). I make the analogy between demons and predatory animals because I doubt we can reason with either but I would hope that most of us wouldn't hate an animal for trying to kill us but most of us would still fight or be willing to fight/resist one if it would help and also because they I assume that they will be restored to what they were meant to be or better(just like predators will be healed of their predatory ways and needs). My point isn't to treat them in a friendly way(like trying to cuddle with a wild big cat!) but to not hate them for acting malicious and foolish.

I don't know how possession exorcism is supposed to work(I am skeptical towards people claiming to be experts on this even if I give them the benefit of the doubt as far as their intentions are concerned). But I don't think we should be sympathetic to the point of letting them cause all kinds of trouble when we know how to put a stop to it. I am sure that God loves them to and would not cruelly send them to some hopeless torture pit. If he did send them to some unpleasant place, we would have to assume it was an act of love and benevolence and that it would lead them to repent or something. I do remember thinking(when I still believed in ECT) that if a demon wanted to live in me, I might just let it stay rather than send it to hell! Sending them to hell just seems like a bit much, doesn't it? Like couldn't he just send them to some old abandoned house or something? lol But I think it is safe to trust God in this. He will not be less merciful or less compassionate than us and he knows what he is doing.

[jabcat]

I wouldn't try to convert them and Jesus is the one that transforms hearts. I think it is safe to trust God in this. He will not be less merciful or less compassionate than us and he knows what he is doing.

There are no verses that refer to demons dying, so its a discussion that does not need to be had. But as for the response from anti- you have to realize that I reply to topics in a general way, so don't take it personally- just keeping the forum on the main highway,in the scriptures and the testimony of Jesus and the apostles and prophets.

:thumbsup:

[anti_nietzsche]

Hello again, brothers,

I made an experiment last night. The demon was with me and I couldn't think straight, but I switched on a prayer video to Jesus and somehow things got better in a short time and I felt really good. Then I spoke with the demon without rebuking, telling him I had forgiven him. Then suddenly a wave of fresh air came to me and the demon retreated. I saw him around me, a hovering face. I had input from God, that demons have no stomach and cannot eat anything although they would love to. That they go eye for an eye if someone rebukes them and rarely give up. I went outside at midnight into the park here, and talked to the demon and told him, don't worry, little thing, I have forgiven you, and I prayed for them then. Then suddenly it felt like the demon got joy like a little kid, and I saw it dance around and hide behind trees, and when I was watching it went to another tree and hid there, like children wanting to play hide and seek. It was pretty nice and I became happy. I could hear the demon thing talk then, and it said it wanted to play computer games with me (it's my hobby). I went back to the house with the demon and played Starbound and said to the demon, I play like you want it, you are the chief. Then suddenly another big wave of release hit me.

This had been troubling me always because I am a peacable man who cannot rebuke well and who would rather talk and reason than fight. The demons cannot reason so well because nobody prays for them and they think we're all evil too because humans do not think of them.

What do you think?

[Dandelion]

My advise, anti....don't make friends with demons. And, do not tell them that they are in charge of anything.

When we are all in Heaven and Jesus has manifested His victory over sin and death.....I expect we will all be one family.

But, until then, call on Jesus to help you when you feel you are being visited by demons.

God has the solution to demons. We do not need to try to re-invent one. Let Him handle them.

Your greatest strength is through prayer, reading the Bible, healthy Christian fellowship, and walking in the Light of God, everyday.

Believe that God can fight your battles. He is able. How many times in the Bible does Jesus say to people....Go in peace, your faith has saved you.?

Our only identity must be God. Anything else is a dangerous place to be.

I will keep you in my prayers, anti. Hoping you will have the peace of God, that surpasses all understanding.

D.

[eaglesway]

Jude recounts that Michael the archangel, when contending with the adversary said, "The Lord rebuke you". Jesus Himself, when contending with the deceiver on the mount of temptation replied, "For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

When tempted again through Peter's good, but mistaken intentions spoke, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

The enemy is in the Lord's hands to deal with, but Jesus identifies him(and I would imagine that includes all who serve under him) as the author of confusion and the father of lies. In the garden he was that, and persuaded Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I believe that the Lord's plan for the recovery of all that is fallen is based on the trust of His children, who are demonstrating the wisdom of God to the principalities and powers through their submission, even in the midst of all their imperfection- but to assume that spirit beings are unintelligent, and seeking our fellowship, is to be drawn in thru deception into the web being spun for our individual gullibilities. There is no fellowship between light and darkness.

To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him. Eph 3

[Thomas]

"The things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?" (1 Corinthians 10:20-22)

What do you think the meaning of fellowship is..?

Why do you think Paul does not want us to have fellowship with demons..?

These are not questions to answer but questions to think about.

[Ross]

"The things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?" (1 Corinthians 10:20-22)

What do you think the meaning of fellowship is..?

Why do you think Paul does not want us to have fellowship with demons..?

These are not questions to answer but questions to think about.

:thumbsup: Exactly!! Why think about these creatures when you can be directly with the creator?

[sheila]

  don't sooth[e] say to them..and yes they are appointed unto the secound LOF death..it is prepared for them. Enoch also was 

  requested to intercede for them...but God said 'NO".

[sheila]

if thy right hand offend thee cut if off....this is the body part that is better lost then the whole body to perish.Zech 3;1

  Zechariah 11;17.   Not one of them [body members] is lost but the son of perdition,that the scriptures may be fulfilled.