Unclean until the evening

[WhiteWings]

In Leviticus we find a list of things that defile a person. When defiled a person must bathe and at evening he will be clean.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15&version=NKJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+11

In Numbers we find more similar examples.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2019
Num 19:7-8 is an example of this.


Before I continue, I have absolutely no interest in discussions about those laws still being in force or not.

In most cases washing and waiting until the evening is all it takes to become clean again. Why?
Why not instantly? Why not the next morning? Why not the next Sabbath day? What's the relevance of it?

I think it's safe to say a great many OT things somehow are connected to Jesus.
One of the names/titles of Jesus is The Living Water. It can be argued He washes our defilements away.
If that's so I would say His washing doesn't have instant effect following the pattern laid out in Lev and Num.
How does "wait until evening" translate into being washed by Jesus? Somehow I think in that case we no longer are talking about a literal evening but something else. But what?

Finally: Num 19:11-12 is also about washing but this time the cleanness comes much later.
Basically the same questions as above.


:dontknow:

[Ross]

Christ used to come and chat with Adam in the evening.
There are verses in Psalms about meditating in the evening.

To learn we need to have a teacher making observations, pointing these things out to us. Nothing to do with our position, or adding to, or subtracting from the work of Christ; part of learning.

I.M.O could be the concept of the evening being reflection on what was done during the day, the sins/mistakes made, and the reminder that these too are washed by Christ, even though we still make mistakes in the fleshly side of our current being.

[GodIsLove]

Interesting thread started!

Evening is when the Hebrew day began if I'm not mistaken.

So it seems "waiting till the evening" to become clean is actually waiting till the next day.

Interesting that in a Hebrew day, it starts with the evening (becoming dark) and then progresses to the dawn, instead of our modern day that starts in the morning in our thought process (yes I know it's technically 12 am but usually we refer to the day beginning at dawn).

Maybe something about the world being darkness and "let there be light."

The symbolism of our world being in spiritual darkness and Jesus coming into the world and being the light of the world.

The sun (son) rising.

I guess none of this answers your question, just sharing some thoughts that popped into my head.

[Ross]

Evening is when the Hebrew day began if I'm not mistaken.
So it seems "waiting till the evening" to become clean is actually waiting till the next day.

The symbolism of our world being in spiritual darkness and Jesus coming into the world and being the light of the world.

Interesting observation.
Precision of the whole system is grand.
Christ's work involved much planning and preparation then precision during implementation of the plan.
Easy to use terms as to this significance, but to fully comprehend is staggering, mind-blowing, indescribable, magnolious, humungus,
fantidliastic.

The laws and dealing with the Jews is also significant. All their life was a little sniff at the changes required by people and the work of God to carry out those changes.

1 Cor 10;1-12 " For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the
                      sea, and all were baptised into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the
                      same spiritual drink; for they used to drink from the spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock was Christ.
                      But God was not pleased with most of them, for their corpses were scattered over the desert.
                      Now these things took place as examples for us, so that we would not crave the evil things, even as they did.
                      So do not become idolaters, as some of them were, as it is written,
                                    'The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.'
                     We must not indulge in sexual immorality, as some of them did, and 23,000 fell in a single day.
                     And let us not put Christ to the test, as some of them did, and were destroyed by serpents.
                     And do not grumble, as some of them did, and were killed  y the destroyer.
                     Now these events happened as examples but were written down as warnings FOR US, on whom the end of the ages
                     has come. So let the one who thinks he stands watch out lest he fall."

This sort of point made by Paul after explaining the Jew/Gentile thing in Romans 9 through to 11.
I.M.O backs up the significance of things like the code of ethics about cleaning and sacrifice as the indication of better things coming through Christ to outweigh those procedures, but yet encourage the life of love to God, in Christ, exceeding those temporary rules.
hence the fruit of the spirit.

[WhiteWings]

Interesting thread started!

Evening is when the Hebrew day began if I'm not mistaken.

I used to believe that too and so do present day Jews. But after closer study of Scripture I believe a day is from sunrise to sunrise. http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/Feasts/sunrisesunrise.html

Another thing for me is: Dark is bad (because Father/Son is light). Nothing Scriptural but just a feeling.

[WhiteWings]

How does "wait until evening" translate into being washed by Jesus? Somehow I think in that case we no longer are talking about a literal evening but something else. But what?

Not really an answer to my own question but a guess...
If death is evening then it could mean the effect of being washed by Jesus take effect after death. Yeah I know very well many believe the washing of Jesus has instant effect. "Born again" and similar terms come to mind.

[WhiteWings]

Christ used to come and chat with Adam in the evening.
There are verses in Psalms about meditating in the evening.

Sure there are. But just as well as during day time. Including preaching about God. The way I read Psalms David was praising God at every opportunity he got.

Plus the way I read it, the verses about uncleanness don't mention prayer at all. It would be logical. For me personally it would be also logical those prayers were said before darkness sets in. Why wait?
Keep in mind the verse simply says at evening. That could be 3 hours after dark and many prayers but because no time is given I think we should assume a split second after it became dark.

[WhiteWings]

Also keep in mind that evening doesn't have to mean what we modern Westerners call evening. (what we call evening is part of their night)
In the Hebrew mind evening started at noon when the sun started to go down.
Jesus died between evenings. Imo that simply means between noon and dark.
Just Google "between evenings"
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/2evens.htm
http://www.amightywind.com/passover/betweenevenings.html

So could Lev and Num point to that sort of evening? If so it adds more complexity but also a possible answer/solution.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/parallels.html
Click on the picture. Evening starts at noon/the 6th hour. I hope the diagram is clear but my point is that the Temple sacrifices parallel Jesus on the cross. While Lev and Num do not give any time Lamb-Jesus died during the 9th hour in/between the evening(s) when the animal-lamb also was killed by the high priest.

That might look like an answer but once again I mention Lev/Num don't mention any time. So the Jews just would have assumed noon or darkness.
:Chinscratch:

[Ross]

If death is evening then it could mean the effect of being washed by Jesus take effect after death. Yeah I know very well many believe the washing of Jesus has instant effect. "Born again" and similar terms come to mind.

The effect seems to be an interesting observation. Seems to imply that the learning, cleansing is on-going, not affecting the position just reminding to take up the cross daily. So indeed being washed taking effect after death to self. Could be why Gal 2;20 and other verses by Paul recognise completeness of Christ on the cross for us.

[marie glen]

Finally: Num 19:11-12 is also about washing but this time the cleanness comes much later.

9 "A man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and put them in a ceremonially clean place outside the camp. They are to be kept by the Israelite community for use in the water of cleansing; it is for purification from sin. 10 The man who gathers up the ashes of the heifer must also wash his clothes, and he too will be unclean till evening.

11 "Whoever touches a human corpse will be unclean for seven days. 12 They must purify themselves with the water on the third day and on the seventh day; then they will be clean. But if they do not purify themselves on the third and seventh days, they will not be clean...
"The man who sprinkles the water of cleansing must also wash his clothes, and anyone who touches the water of cleansing will be unclean till evening. 22 Anything that an unclean person touches becomes unclean, and anyone who touches it becomes unclean till evening."


It has to do with contamination, yes? even after washing, separation for a short while..

[marie glen]

In Genesis, the creation account, uses "so the evening and the morning" when describing the days of creation. And "called the light DAY, and the darkness he called night". And at creation, the night or darkness preceded the light or day, demonstrating that it comes first in the creative order?

..Jesus said for three nights and three days He would be in the grave.. in that order..

I think I read somewhere the Romans and Egyptians began their day at midnight, as we do today, or the world, rather, and the Babylonians began their day at sunrise being worshipers of the sun.

Leviticus 23:32 -  It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.

YLV -  It [is] a sabbath of rest to you, and ye have humbled yourselves in the ninth of the month at even; from evening till evening ye do keep your sabbath.'

Ex. 12:18 - In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

        ---- H6153 ערב

Strong's:
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions:

   1. evening, night, sunset
       a. evening, sunset
       b. night
Origin: from H6150 - ערב
‛ârab
aw-rab'
A primitive root (rather identical with H6148 through the idea of covering with a texture); to grow dusky at sundown

Mark 1:32 - (YLT) - And evening having come, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all who were ill, and who were demoniacs...
         :Chinscratch: interesting... :thumbsup: