I've posted this view before, but there are numerous new members and I am always ready for a kindly and gentle foray.
I do not believe that Noah's Ark was/is literal nor do I believe in a global world flood.
The Bible, be it the old or the new, is an offering that is to be "spiritually" understood; yet folks along with theologians, all, from what I have read, bring the Word[Bible] DOWN to the human grasp (understanding) so that man can make movies.
Well there it is. Do I believe there is an Ark...Yes. Do I believe there was a Flood.....Yes. Do I believe that the Ark and the Flood are significant and important in understanding the Word? YES! :dsunny:
"...a kindly and gentle foray."
OK, here's Laz's view: I take the historical parts of the Bible historically, the spiritual parts spiritually, the doctrinal parts doctrinally, etc. I don't take it as a one-interpretation-fits-all document.
In the case of the Flood, we have the Earth, a planet which always had water, but at some time in the past, only remembered in myth and legend, it got a lot more. Where from? We also have Mars, a planet which once had water, but lost almost all of it. Where did it go? The folks at NASA speak of great outflow channels, but where did that water go? Could there be a connection? Now if we follow the theories of Velikovsky and the newer ideas of the Electric Universe Model, we know that the two planets may have come into close proximity in the past. It is just possible that they came so close that most of Mars' water flowed by gravity to Earth, while electric forces held them apart.
That's conjecture, and proof would lie in the future, in the form of Martian rocks matching rock inclusions in the Earth's sedimentary strata, as all that water must have carried a lot of rubble with it. If there was/is life on Mars, there would also be a match-up with fossils and living forms here, as water would have carried them, too.
The subsidence of the Flood waters was due to the expansion of the Earth, as ALL continents fit together, both geographically and geologically, across all oceans, on a smaller planet. The creation of the deeps between the continents on a larger planet provided a place for the extra waters.
Laz, much of your insight and knowledge has caused me pause, but what you just posted after, "OK, here's Laz's view: I take the historical parts of the Bible historically, the spiritual parts spiritually, the doctrinal parts doctrinally, etc. I don't take it as a one-interpretation-fits-all document."
More than causing me to pause, it caused me to stop...because I don't care about Mars, NASA, or Velikovsky. I know you most certainly meant well, and I apologize for my negative concern. :Peace2:
I meant that interpreting the Bible by one all-inclusive method, Fundamentalism or a Literal view, for instance, leads to being painted into some odd theo-illogical corners...
The rest consists of a lot of dots I have connected over many years. I try to keep it all in a Biblical framework.
:iagree: :dsunny: :banana:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 06, 2014, 07:29:58 AM
"...a kindly and gentle foray."
OK, here's Laz's view: I take the historical parts of the Bible historically, the spiritual parts spiritually, the doctrinal parts doctrinally, etc. I don't take it as a one-interpretation-fits-all document.
I think that view is wrong :winkgrin:
The Bible seems to have 4 layers of depth. So everything has 4 meanings. I've seen that reapear in many places on a more natural level like the rainbow covenant marriage covenant, layout of the Temple and eden, etc
Don't ask me to give all those layers because I rarely get past layer 2.
I think the
local flood is a historical fact. I think the ark was 100% real. I think that ark is a pattern of the ark that stood in the HoH.
Just my :2c: which in the current economic state buys you about a grain of salt.
--> Laz I just showed you a second layer of :2c:
:Peace2:
"I think the ark was 100% real. I think that ark is a pattern of the ark that stood in the HoH." (WW)
I believe that the ark is a pattern for the HoH.
What I ask is was the ark of Noah literal? Was there an actual ark? I also believe the flood was local.
Yes, the ark was a real and literal boat.
No, the Ark was not exactly a boat: no sails, no oars, no prop. It was a big box to float on the water. I think "barge" would be closer than "boat."
I subscribe to a universal flood, BTW.
Father is rich with His symbolgy[Moses floating in a little reed basket.[ark].......[word of the Lord come to deliver
His people from slavery to Egypt]...Jesus teaching from a boat.......
God's temple in heaven opened..and within it seen the ark of the covenant......Holy box/cube shaped city
coming down from heaven.......word of God contained in an ark....ark angels that minster to those who
are to inherit salvation...Hark the herald angels=hear the ark angels....as they minster unto the 'WORD OF
GOD"
Jesus as the ARK/WORD OF GOD" come inflesh..walked above the waters...the power of the 'word of God"
to stop up the flow of the Jordan[always at flood stage] He that is the 'firstborn of the dead' leading forth
and breaking open the gates of death...until all Israel has 'passed over' the Jordan
...and all your children shall be taught of God....what a wonderful TEACHER!!!
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 06, 2014, 07:29:58 AM
We also have Mars, a planet which once had water, but lost almost all of it. Where did it go? The folks at NASA speak of great outflow channels, but where did that water go?
It's sure large quantities went into space.
But that can impossibly have happened during the flood. The time from the moment the rain stopped and the land was dry enough to walk on was short. To evaporate all that water that fast requires heat that would boil everything inside the ark. Not to mention the required pressure. So, if the flood was global the water must still be here. You might like the Hydro plate theory.
I do not believe there was a global flood and science proves it so.
What would be the purpose of a world wide flood?
As far as the ark, no one has found the Ark of the Covenant (not even Indy) and no one will find the Ark of Noah(Noe) at least that's how I understand it.
The Book is a book of spiritual understanding and reason [for me.]
The Ark of the Covenant as well as Noah's Ark both represent JESUS CHRIST and as far as I see it Jesus being the Lord(Jehovah) who is the Lord God and the deity God that I believe in, is yes rest and love and SPIRIT. For me, as I am led to study, there is ONE and that ONE is SPIRIT, so most of what I learn and want to learn, begins and ends with a formula, ONE and SPIRIT. :dsunny:
Looks like the movie "Noah" is offending people, the Muslims in particular. I suppose that the religious crowd will jump on it too. I may go see it, not sure yet, but I don't expect it to be true to scripture, nor spiritual.
Quote from: micah7:9 on March 08, 2014, 12:49:15 AM
As far as the ark, no one has found the Ark of the Covenant (not even Indy) and no one will find the Ark of Noah(Noe) at least that's how I understand it.
Ron Wyatt claimed to have found both. There are lots of articles on the www, and videos on EweToob. Did he really find them? I'm mostly convinced on Noah's Ark, more skeptical on the Ark of the Covenant. Happily, my faith does not rest on what Ron Wyatt (or anyone else) found, or didn't find.
In my mind and in my lifetime should anyone find a physical Noah's ark or Ark of the Covenant, then the Bible for me is a non truth.
Jesus is.... THE Ark and is Real.. and (i) am a soul within that "pitched within and without" ark in the process of being made whole, healed=saved. To clutter my thoughts with historical literacy I find foolish. God IS Spirit and Jo. 6:63......the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
For me the Spirit is the real(literal and historical in a sence) and i will be the first to admit i know nothing about Spirit(and please lets not clutter a discussion with ruach and pneuma) God IS Spirit!! and "until" He gives us the the Wisdom and Understanding just what "spirit" "is" we are like a dog chasing it's tail.
Personally i have received spiritual insight as well as a good many of you all, but I dare say that "most" of our spiritual insight has come from the religious theology offered from the denomination or sect that caused us to sprout where we grew up or what we began to follow[searching], those were are building blocks.. A,B,C blocks and as hard as we try, it was our staple....why.... WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SPIRIT IS... I know that's a shock. The disciples followed(they were called) but they didn't know what spirit was, even thought they walked beside SPIRIT; we all are called [GLORY] but we are not all CHOSEN... for if we were...we would KNOW what Spirit IS.
KNOW= yada.....eidō
We, in hope, will know, but as Paul said Php 3:12 I do not say that I have already won the race or have already reached perfection. But I am pressing on, striving to lay hold of the prize for which also Christ has laid hold of me.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not imagine that I have yet laid hold of it. But this one thing I do--forgetting everything which is past and stretching forward to what lies in front of me,
Php 3:14 with my eyes fixed on the goal I push on to secure the prize of God's heavenward call in Christ Jesus.
That Is Spirit. At least that's the :2c: that's been given me.
That reminds me of this scripture: 1Cor.13:12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
I do believe God works with us in whatever strange denomination, or none, for that matter, we are thrown into. It's a good thing for us all He's no respecter of persons as a human being is, so much of the time.
Quote from: Tapioca on March 17, 2014, 02:15:02 AM
That reminds me of this scripture: 1Cor.13:12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
I do believe God works with us in whatever strange denomination, or none, for that matter, we are thrown into. It's a good thing for us all He's no respecter of persons as a human being is, so much of the time.
Amen, Lovely, T !! well said !
How long are we going to use the "glass darkly" as our foil to understanding? I understand the inference, but it also shows our stalemate for understanding. Either some of us are growing or we are just a huddled crowd of believers cowering. Are we as believers learning or warming seats?
I, that's me, personally chose Noah's Ark as a place of starting... perhaps finding the stones that carry the 10 commandments would be more suitable. We have history in the Bible, His written Word, but have we/man not looked at the BIBLE as just another book of history, as from a school, something that is literal history? I for one cannot see that. :2c:
I don't think it's used as a foil. I see it as not seeing the way we will see, and know, when we are with Him. It's just a fact, not an excuse.
A "fact"? :Chinscratch:
It's a "fact" that we don't see completely. Okay?
Quote from: Tapioca on March 17, 2014, 04:10:55 AM
It's a "fact" that we don't see completely. Okay?
I agree. Paul said it. That doesn't mean we can't grow. We grow
despite our limits. He's the vine, we are the branches.
I agree, with you both, but still i have an unrest that we just circle around the "fact" of a glass darkly. Does that ever seem like an excuse, rather than a fact? I'm just asking.
Anyway, Noah's ark? :dsunny: Is Paul "our" last spokes person? Lets close up our studies and go back to what ever we were doing when before we read 1Co 13:12 for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;
Thanks and good night. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Should we focus whether it was real or not? Is that absolutely a necessary understanding to our faith. We all pull a good message from it regardless.
I mean I do agree with Laz in that we may have to see the bible multiple ways. Some things may have been meant to be taken literally & if we doubt that things may be "impossible" we also have to remember that everything with God is possible. Some of us before we came here thought God saving all of man was 'out of His power' or do we take those scriptures that state that as metaphors to mean something else.
I look at it this way, if God says, "this is what I did, will do," are we to take that to be metaphorically even though it is a clear cut statement?? I personally see some things in the bible were examples to show Gods power. If it wasn't for scientists, I wouldn't see God more & more as I learn anatomy & how the body works throughout my courses. More & more I see God, so I don't discredit science or researchers or history completely. God uses EVERYTHING for his purpose.
If He says have faith like a child while talking to men, well obviously, He's using an example so people gain better understanding.
God gave man wisdom, even in science with its many flaws (as everything has) since we are all flawed, but I don't ever think we should discredit how powerful God.
If He wanted to flood the earth, He most certainly would have & if that is what He wished He most certainly did.
If when the word was inspired by Him & He only meant it to be metaphorical then that's what was done.
However can any one of us say matter-of-factly that one view is better than the other or truer... no, because none of us know the true depths & mysteries of His ways, even though He reveal bits & pieces to us we are all still veiled.
Besides, (said with a smile), I don't think that matters anyway. We get the message either way, if He wishes us to get the message & the method used to get us the message is up to Him too. :)
Each of us understands things as He is allowing us to understand, so I honestly don't believe there's any right or wrong here, as long as you leave with the right message.
Quote from: micah7:9 on March 17, 2014, 05:25:44 AM
I agree, with you both, but still i have an unrest that we just circle around the "fact" of a glass darkly. Does that ever seem like an excuse, rather than a fact? I'm just asking.
Anyway, Noah's ark? :dsunny: Is Paul "our" last spokes person?
Nope. When Jesus went back to heaven as a bethroted man leaving His bethroded girl behind the task of the groomsman started. He carries back and forth messages and gifts between the couple. The name of Jesus' groomsman is Holy Spirit. That's the spokes person
QuoteLets close up our studies and go back to what ever we were doing when before we read 1Co 13:12 for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;
I don't know how to exactly link those things but in the Temple there were lavers (see picture) to clean sacrifices etc. Those lavers that had bronze mirrors which gave a dim reflection.
(http://www.indianoutreach.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Temple.png)
[quote author=WhiteWings
Nope. When Jesus went back to heaven as a bethroted man leaving His bethroded girl behind the task of the groomsman started. He carries back and forth messages and gifts between the couple. The name of Jesus' groomsman is Holy Spirit. That's the spokes person
[/quote]
That is so very beautiful. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :girlheart: :girlheart:
Personally i believe it's important to accept all history in the Bible as real and literal and not fable.. otherwise perhaps the resurrection of Jesus was fable.. perhaps the very existence of Jesus was fable (that's not, of course, what I'm saying, it's what the world would like to say...
and ppl have been leaving Christendom/the faith in droves since churches have compromised on Genesis, trying to make it blend with the false prophet which began as a man - i.e Darwin's theory which has turned Christendom on its ear..
Also world wide has been found piles of bones, and fossils like washed up by a shore.. places where man thinks used to be ocean also are found, because they find evidence of sea life, and they do not take into account the flood..
Also the glaciers were world wide too, with life frozen in them, which implies very quick freezing of water.. including wooly mamaths, a land animal..
Other wise I would believe perhaps "all the land" would refer to all the land where ppl were..
:girlheart: :hiya:
I agree with Marie Glen wholeheartedly.
If the scriptures through which we learn of salvation and upon which we rely for our faith journey in this realm can be treated willy nilly - choosing this piece and 'swerving' that as it is uncomfortable to our 'scientific sensibilities' - then we have no sure ground at all.
If the Creator say chose to get an amoeba and from that evolve all living beings (human, animal, insect) over millions of years then that would be written in Genesis. As God's word says the world was created in 7 x 24 hour days then so be it - we might not understand it but toughski on us. Let God be true and every man a liar.
If we dispute Genesis and its accounts by overlaying them with modern viewpoints then we are de facto calling God a deceiver or mistaken.
So, to the Ark - there are later spiritualised allusions to it in scripture, but it was built, stored mankind and animals (including dinosaurs) from drowning, and it must be assumed, rotted away over centuries.
Regarding the waters covering the Earth etc - it has been discovered that beneath the earth's mantle there is much more water stored than visible/measurable on the surface.
While I might sound pedantic - and I might well be a pedant - I can only avow that since I came to understand the Genesis account as historical fact and 100 percent reliable, my faith and understanding has found new depths (heights?).
We have the word of God - if we choose to neglect or dispute it, in my opinion we echo the serpent''s "Hath God said?"
I'm pedantic about Genesis, too, Albert. :dsunny:
Well said.
Albert, I don't agree.
Nobody, whatever his/her view, is calling God a deceiver or mistaken. It's all about interpretation.
The Hebrew word for earth in the Flood account is the same word that tells us the plagues were in the whole land of Egypt. Egypt wasn't a global empire.
Some read the flood water rose immensely high and covered the highest mountain on earth by a few feet. Others read it as the water rose a few feet and covered the mountains which were merely small hills as we see on the plain Noach lived. Mount Olives isn't a huge mountain. So when we read mountain we must never assume anything like the Rocky Mountains or Mount Everest.
The Hebrew word for day can also mean a time period.
So God left a lot of room for interpretation?
Some may say that God is very clear about what He wants to say and 7 days simply means 7x24 hours. Could be but the same people often also say things like: "Wow, look what I found when studying the Bible this weekend. HS unlocked this beautiful gem to me!!!!"
Obviously, that's great, but then I wonder why it took them so long, why it needed study and help from HS to see something new in a passage they must have read many times in the last 20 years. To me that shows that God Word isn't merely about shallow reading.
:Peace2:
When in Genesis it says "the evening and the morning were the first day" I think we ought to accept that it means what it says - it's curious how it's only in respect of the 7 days of Creation that the actual length of days is in dispute.
If God did not mean a 24 hour day then what are we to make of the Sabbath injunction to keep that single day holy? There's a lack of congruity there.
It is a difficult stretch logically to compare the use of 'day' in Genesis with some other usage somewhere else in scripture - written by a different author at a different time and with a different purpose.
However, that said, each to his/her own - if you want to accept the scriptures as they are written or if you prefer a more comfortable or contemporary understanding is one's own choice. For me, I prefer God's word over man's opinions but chacun a son gout :)
Quote from: AlbertTatlock on March 22, 2014, 02:54:34 PM
If God did not mean a 24 hour day then what are we to make of the Sabbath injunction to keep that single day holy? There's a lack of congruity there
Hi Albert,
If you look at Genesis the sun was created on the fourth day. So whatever light appeared on the first day was not the sun. The sun and moon were given for man to measure days months and years. So to me, it's perfectly in line with a plain reading of Genesis that a day was not 24 hours.
I see the sabbath day as simply a way to remember. You could mark out one 24 hour period to observe something that happened in a year and according to the Hebrew meaning of "yom" you would be keeping day to remember a day.
I believe the ark was as literal as the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as did Peter, one of the twelve foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.
1 Peter 3:20,21
Quote from: eaglesway on March 24, 2014, 02:39:37 AM
I believe the ark was as literal as the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as did Peter, one of the twelve foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.
1 Peter 3:20,21
:iagree:
:cloud9: I think the first 5 books ESPECIALLY, have been proven by computer science (Bible codes) to be flawless, else the codes wouldn't work. So even if I didn't accept them as valid at face value, something like that would certainly move me in that direction. My :2c:
Might as well put my query's here. And I am only giving thoughts with wonderings, I have no IMO.
Wonderings, questions no more. My thoughts maybe handled better by Ronen and WW Tony(?) they seem to be more knowledgeable with Hebrew history in the Hebrew that most. I just wonder.
Eve is the first woman and by Adam named her and called her the mother of all living. There are no more female names until Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife, mentioned (that I read) until Sarai Gen. 12:5 I have no idea if there is any significance.
Then when we read of Noah in Gen.7- Noah Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
In the record there is no identification, by name of Noah's wife, or the names of Shem, Ham, or Japheth wives. I just wonder why?
I have always been told that the female was quite insignificant....still we have Eve...significant, Sarai...significant.... why are not the names of the mothers who began life after the flood of no so significance?
Are they of no importance? I mean we find the Lord destroying life as it is known and He finds that Noah and his three sons are important, we find the generic tree from these three males with names important, we find that Eve is the mother of all living and later we see that Sarai will become Sarah..a noble person, head person. Yet Noah's wife, and his three sons wives are not even given names, considering the fact those three women would be the mothers of a new world. I just wonder.
Also, Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
And when the waters subside and all is started a new, we come to find out "...the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Yet the same human lifestyle starts over again, like the flood did not matter anyway to what man was going to do and be. There was a bow (a covenant ?) to signify that things will continue just as it was?
Maybe I missed something. Please, I'm looking for help. :Pray:
And ain't it amusing that should the flood have been world wide [as it it is supposed], when the Ark rests, it's in the very same area it started from? I lean towards the thought of a local flood. :sigh: :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
I think the account of the flood is a local tale of the jews, or rather, of people living in the Middle East at that time. I think there was a spirit flood of some kind that elevated man to a new level with the establishment of courts and the development of the idea of justice. Much like the Eden story, the account of Noah must be the account of a tribe of humans that worshiped God and stood against things in the world as it was at that time. Idolatry, violence especially, adultery probably, too much fornication too... theft, lot's of crimes really. And Noah and his party built something like an organization called the ark, and called themselves after animals, and came into the ark in pairs. Someone called Raven, someone called Dove, someone called Cow, someone called Pig, etc. And while the spirit flood was active, there was a time of turmoil. So Noah and his ark tribe went to the area of Ararat and lived there, and after a year they sent out the Raven and the Dove. The Dove found other humans and brought back an olive twig as a sign of peace. Big Party, mission accomplished.
The literal reading of the Noah account has too many difficulties. A global flood reaching Mt Everest would be so vast that the Earth's ecosystem could have hardly recovered, the weather would have been disturbed for many thousand years. The water in the ocean wouldn't be able to sustain any fish because of lack of salt in the water from all the dilution from the rain. And the water would have to go somewhere, but it isn't here anymore. The Ark story could have also not taken into account the many animals that exist in the world, they could have never fitted into the ark boat together with the food and all. And what about tigers and wolves that need fresh meat?
Plus it's too blunt a method for God to fight against evil in the world. I mean, God can't simply destroy the world if humans are bad. That's not what a God of love would do. Jesus shows us what the God of love does ... sacrificing Himself and rising from the dead and renewing the face of the Earth.
That is all the trouble with biblical inerrancy. The bible is sacred and one of our best guides to things of God, but in the same time the information we get is rather obscure sometimes. It's not a book that fell from the sky, it's not codified textbook. Instead it's a collection of stories, and for example Genesis is thought of as a collection of jewish stories and songs that they handed down through many generations before they were finally written down.
Earths eco system was created by God. God can sustain anything He desires to effect since "all things hold together by the word of His power".
Why does the proton not spin off the nucleus?
What is gravity?
"All things hold together by the word of His power".
"By faith we know that the worlds were framed by the word of God".
In my opinion the problem with biblical inerrancy is that people believe their understanding of the bible is inerrant. They really don't know what it is, a collection of oracles, "God-breathed" through "holy men moved by the Spirit of God"- not a bunch of threads from which to spin systematic theologies, or letters with which to build a box through which they can quantify God and define Him, which really just to make Him after their own image.
The word of God is inerrant, from the perspective that it is God breathed- or it is nothing but a fairy tale that should not be given the regard of the term, "the Word of God", or the "scriptures".
If one does not believe that, they do not understand in the slightest, what the collected writings of the "bible" are, or what they represent.
However, one can believe all that and STILL not have the slightest understanding of what an oracle is, and what makes the word alive, quickened, and good for the teaching of the doctrines that pertain to godliness and the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.
That is why Jesus said, "Wide is the way that leads to death, and many are on it. Narrow is the path that leads to life and few their be that find it"- which has been taught as a message of heaven and hell, but is really Jesus' way of telling the seeker that every path that looks like it leads to life because it has His name stamped all over it doesnt necessarily lead to Him, or the freedom and joy of life that is hidden in WHO HE IS, and a relationship with Him.
Quote from: eaglesway on April 01, 2014, 12:43:11 AM
In my opinion the problem with biblical inerrancy is that people believe their understanding of the bible is inerrant. They really don't know what it is, a collection of oracles, "God-breathed" through "holy men moved by the Spirit of God"- not a bunch of threads from which to spin systematic theologies, or letters with which to build a box through which they can quantify God and define Him, which really just to make Him after their own image.
The word of God is inerrant, from the perspective that it is God breathed- or it is nothing but a fairy tale that should not be given the regard of the term, "the Word of God", or the "scriptures".
:cloud9: Amen :iagree:
Let it be known that this OP had nothing to do with the movie that's coming out now nor any movie about the Ark previously. :dsunny:
I also read the bible in a more mystical way than taking it as something plain. The other thing is, in our day people try to rationalize, to gather information and to expect things to be reliable. In a way we are all academics now, thinking of the past itself as a thing of the past. I'm not sure I can express it right, but it's like we're always on a sightseeing trip, on a thrill ride, taking a vacation while taking our modern life with us always. But the real past is a story of blood and tears and sweat mostly. We don't quite know what it was like to live in ancient Israel, for example. The bible rarely tells stories of a happy time. There was always trouble and more trouble. Did the ancients have spring festivals, did they hang out in the sun after the work, drinking a beer and swapping stories? I know from my own childhood (I'm 35), that after work my parents used to sit together on the porch and talk into the night. There was much gossip, but not about politics or celebrities, but about affairs of the village, of the neighborhood, of family and friends. I'm not sure what kind of social life the Israelites had. If they actually knew much joy and peace. It's hard to ascertain nowadays. For example, we know that the psalms were originally songs and pieces for harp and flute and voice. David was more of a bard than how we imagine a king. Which medieval king sang songs himself? I know of none. The bible is a deep book, but for me it is mostly a book of stories and thoughts and some chronicles. It is a book of memories, the testament of forefathers. It is a sacred text because God can work on us while we read it. It is special. But exactly this should make us think twice of using the bible like any other book. We expect a book of maths to be 100% true in all of its statements. Perhaps the bible cannot be read like this precisely because it is a true book. We don't know its authors, their pains and problems, their own thoughts. Saul came and anointed David. What were the thoughts of Saul? Why were the hebrews so sparse in their descriptions? The scriptures are important, but it is precisely because they are so important, that they are giving us more problems than answers, that they cause fear for us rather than comfort.
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on April 01, 2014, 11:00:54 AM
I also read the bible in a more mystical way than taking it as something plain............................................................The scriptures are important, but it is precisely because they are so important, that they are giving us more problems than answers, that they cause fear for us rather than comfort.
:iagree:
I've always used the Bible for comfort. I choose the verses that speak to me and my particular need, and memorize them. The ones that do not bring peace I work on as time is available. I'm sure I'll never get it all. I'm happy to try to understand the half of it.
.
The danger of just picking the easy verses you like is that you build your own doctrine. I agree that very few, if any, person will fully understand the Bible, but the difficult/non comforting verses are there for a reason. Plus if you are able to unlock a few hard verses you may notice you unlocked much more.
:2c:
:cloud9: That is so true. If you find hidden manna in one, it ALWAYS reveals itself in other scriptures.
There are unbroken "threads" of His garment running from Genesis to Revelation of every principle imaginable; we have only to discover what the Master weaver wove, to see another piece of His flawless seamless (without beginning or end, without father or mother) robe.
We are a royal priesthood, a peculiar (chosen) nation, being clothed with righteousness and wisdom from above. :banana: He is awesome and worthy to be praised. And praise Him in the midst of the terrible storms of my life I do, for without it I would be swept away. Blessings...
Just a piece I noted about the movie, Noah. Apparently there have been a lot of adverse reactions to it.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Noah-bible-movie/2014/03/31/id/562887/
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 01, 2014, 03:30:05 PM
The danger of just picking the easy verses you like is that you build your own doctrine. I agree that very few, if any, person will fully understand the Bible, but the difficult/non comforting verses are there for a reason. Plus if you are able to unlock a few hard verses you may notice you unlocked much more.
:2c:
Been down that road more then once following sectarians.
You learn to spot them and stick to the simple stuff.
My bliss I guess.
:dsunny:
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 22, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
Some read the flood water rose immensely high and covered the highest mountain on earth by a few feet. Others read it as the water rose a few feet and covered the mountains which were merely small hills as we see on the plain Noach lived. Mount Olives isn't a huge mountain. So when we read mountain we must never assume anything like the Rocky Mountains or Mount Everest.
:Peace2:
5He established the earth upon its foundations,
So that it will not totter forever and ever.
6You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
The waters were standing above the mountains.
7At Your rebuke they fled,
At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away.
8
The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them.
9You set a boundary that they may not pass over,
So that they will not return to cover the earth.
Just to add my :2c: to this, I came across this Psalm 104 this morning. I think the flood was world wide and the mountains rose after the flood and the water is in the oceans today.
:cloud9: I can totally see this. The Lord told me the tsunami that happened was as a result of the displacement weight of water from the ice caps melting. How much more would have happened to the surface of the earth if ALL this water appeared over 40 days? Blessings....
I tried to rebut the latest, but quit.....I still wonder :dsunny:
:cloud9: Micah, so be it according to your faith....Blessings....
I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high enough, along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind :2c:
Quote from: eaglesway on April 07, 2014, 01:47:46 AM
I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high enough, along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind :2c:
".... along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth.
" severity of the storms" recorded? "...and whatever tectonic events took (p)lace..." recorded?
Are you assuming or is is just me? And why could not all of this happened in just the area of where Noah lived? Could there have be a lesson, a learning from this story rather than the "whole entire world" being flooded? I believe the Bible, it has Great Spiritual learning and wisdom but science sees the natural...craters and volcanos, even the Grand Canyon prove no "world wide" flood. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
I don't think it gets much clearer than this:
17The flood continued forty days on the earth. The waters increased and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters.
19And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that
all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered.
20The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. 21And all flesh died that moved on the earth,
birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth,
and all mankind.
22Everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died.
23He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark
Clearer?
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 08, 2014, 03:14:06 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on April 07, 2014, 01:47:46 AM
I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high enough, along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind :2c:
".... along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth.
" severity of the storms" recorded? "...and whatever tectonic events took (p)lace..." recorded?
Are you assuming or is is just me? And why could not all of this happened in just the area of where Noah lived? Could there have be a lesson, a learning from this story rather than the "whole entire world" being flooded? I believe the Bible, it has Great Spiritual learning and wisdom but science sees the natural...craters and volcanos, even the Grand Canyon prove no "world wide" flood. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
They were recorded in the scriptures. "Holy men moved of the Spirit" , "oracles", "God-breathed". If you see them as allegories, myths, exagerations or whatever, that is your way. I believe the scriptures are describing a world-wide cataclysm- a tree shaken by the roots and plucked up by the hand of God. Peter saw it that way, and read it that way.
"Who were once disobedient while the patience of God waited in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is 8 persons were brought safely through the water." 1 Pet 3
"and did not spare the ancient world but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly". 2 Pet 2:5
:cloud9: Micah, ask the Lord for an increase to come in your faith. I'm here to agree with you for it! :iagree: There is power in agreement. Agree with me for an increase in mine, too, while you're at it. You can never have too much! Blessings.... :girlheart:
Why would you do that :sigh:
Also why is MY faith or lack of it in question? I have faith from what I have read in the Bible that there was a flood, that He had a purpose for that flood, just not a global flood. :dsunny:
Quote from: eaglesway on April 10, 2014, 06:12:56 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 08, 2014, 03:14:06 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on April 07, 2014, 01:47:46 AM
I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high enough, along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind :2c:
".... along with the severity of the storms and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth.
" severity of the storms" recorded? "...and whatever tectonic events took (p)lace..." recorded?
Are you assuming or is is just me? And why could not all of this happened in just the area of where Noah lived? Could there have be a lesson, a learning from this story rather than the "whole entire world" being flooded? I believe the Bible, it has Great Spiritual learning and wisdom but science sees the natural...craters and volcanos, even the Grand Canyon prove no "world wide" flood. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
They were recorded in the scriptures. "Holy men moved of the Spirit" , "oracles", "God-breathed". If you see them as allegories, myths, exagerations or whatever, that is your way. I believe the scriptures are describing a world-wide cataclysm- a tree shaken by the roots and plucked up by the hand of God. Peter saw it that way, and read it that way.
"Who were once disobedient while the patience of God waited in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is 8 persons were brought safely through the water." 1 Pet 3
"and did not spare the ancient world but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly". 2 Pet 2:5
If that is as far as you can understand, then so be it. I believe the WORD as you, I just will not excercise my faith with that thinking anylonger. :dsunny:
As no man knows the thoughts of a man but the spirit of the man which is in him. Even so no one knows the thoughts of God but the Spirit of God.
God knows how far we do, or do not understand, and He knows the the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. It is funny, some people believe their faith determines what reality is, but it doesnt. What is real, is what it is, and it will be so until we see it and then it becomes an open door or a fountain. No one, by believing can re-imagine the Rock, He Is What He IS. We are just digging around the edges of His vast wisdom and How much flood the flood was, imo, is not really all that deep. ;o)
Do you believe Gow would go back on His Word?
Jer 5:22 Fear ye not Me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at My presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual (which can mean, any more or at any time) decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?
Oh, with one exception, with Noah's flood they passed anywhere they wanted to go. They defied all of God's decrees and declaration and commandments?
I say No.
Well besides the fact that that was written a couple thousand years after the flood, why would a person believe that and not believe Genesis???
Whatever basis you pick and choose by, to decide what part of the word to believe and what part to categorize as myth or allegory, just doesnt work for me, but why wring one another's nose about it? We see it differently, so again we must agree to disagree, lol.
Should you, who embraces the "agree to disagree" formula would do some checking you would see that the prophet was speaking of Genesis, not "a couple of thousand years after the flood."
Again David speaks of Genesis...Psa 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters; Who maketh the clouds his chariot; Who walketh upon the wings of the wind;
Psa 104:4 Who maketh winds his messengers; Flames of fire his ministers;
Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a vesture; The waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; At the voice of thy thunder they hasted away
Psa 104:8 (The mountains rose, the valleys sank down) Unto the place which thou hadst founded for them.
Psa 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psa 104:10 He sendeth forth springs into the valleys; They run among the mountains;
I say back to you your own words, " Whatever basis you pick and choose.." I agree with the Word and agree with the Word and I am afraid it maybe your nose wringing within theology of its rhetoric. I do not disagree, I say you are in error.
Gen 1:6 And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'
Gen 1:7 And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.
A reference. :Peace2:
In my understanding there was a flood, a flood for His purpose, it was not and did not need to be a global flood. imo.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 11, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
Do you believe Gow would go back on His Word?
Jer 5:22 Fear ye not Me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at My presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual (which can mean, any more or at any time) decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?
Oh, with one exception, with Noah's flood they passed anywhere they wanted to go. They defied all of God's decrees and declaration and commandments?
I say No.
I am undecided about a local flood/global flood. I haven't looked much into it, but I did notice that the word "perpetual" in that Jeremiah scripture is from the word "olam." So it was an OLAM decree, meaning it was not necessarily a degree that could not at some point be set aside by God's choice.
It says that "18The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters. 19And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered."
So if the waters did all that, then at least locally they broke the bounds which were supposed to be set "perpetually." Whether local or global, that "olam decree" would have to be set aside for the local division of waters and land. If locally, than why not globally?
" If locally, than why not globally?"
Why the "need" for a global flood?
You answer me first, then I will answer you.
What did a global flood or even a local flood accomplish?
My reasoning and wonder, Gen 6:6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
And yet when the flood subsided and Noah with his sons were instructed to replenish, all that the flood was to have disposed of, emerged just as before and men began to be just as they were.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 12, 2014, 03:49:09 AM
What did a global flood or even a local flood accomplish?
My reasoning and wonder, Gen 6:6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
And yet when the flood subsided and Noah with his sons were instructed to replenish, all that the flood was to have disposed of, emerged just as before and men began to be just as they were.
It accomplished a sign of what would be baptism of the spirit (the true water). Eventually the
whole earth will be covered with that water, doing away with sin forever...not just locally. Then again, a local flood could accomplish the same purpose. But there isn't necessarily a great obsessive need to believe in a global flood. People simply believe it they open the Bible read it and believe in a global flood. That's hardly a "need."
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 12, 2014, 01:27:33 AM
Should you, who embraces the "agree to disagree" formula would do some checking you would see that the prophet was speaking of Genesis, not "a couple of thousand years after the flood."
Again David speaks of Genesis...Psa 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters; Who maketh the clouds his chariot; Who walketh upon the wings of the wind;
Psa 104:4 Who maketh winds his messengers; Flames of fire his ministers;
Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a vesture; The waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; At the voice of thy thunder they hasted away
Psa 104:8 (The mountains rose, the valleys sank down) Unto the place which thou hadst founded for them.
Psa 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psa 104:10 He sendeth forth springs into the valleys; They run among the mountains;
I say back to you your own words, " Whatever basis you pick and choose.." I agree with the Word and agree with the Word and I am afraid it maybe your nose wringing within theology of its rhetoric. I do not disagree, I say you are in error.
Gen 1:6 And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'
Gen 1:7 And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.
A reference. :Peace2:
In my understanding there was a flood, a flood for His purpose, it was not and did not need to be a global flood. imo.
Your understanding is acceptable for you. It is not acceptable for me, but like I said......not that big a deal, but Peter said "in which 8 souls were saved. To me that makes it worldwide.
Then the flood came upon
the earth and it lifted the ark so that it rose above
the earth. The water increased and rose greatly upon
the earth, and the ark floated on the water.
The water increased more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. The water prevailed 15 cubits higher and the mountains were covered.
All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and every swarming thing that swarms on the earth
and all mankind. Gen 7
Simple. Clear. Easy to read. ;o)
If Genesis 7 doesnt hold water, Psalm 104 doesnt either.
The fact that you need a global flood for your belief leaves me without any truth to supply. I will concede only to that belief, the one you need. You have no real idea or thought where this was, "The water increased more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered." It could have been an area, but you will not see that.
And will you or can you be very specific about, " All flesh that moved on the earth perished.." Just where and how much of "the earth" is/was involved? for you it must be global....why?
No you need a global flood for your religion, without it, your entire belief fails, that is very sad.
What did a global flood accomplish that a local flood could not? What exactly was destroyed, I mean just looking at the world and events today?
I dare not go into the thought of Noah stepping on the smallest of the smallest perhaps one, of a pair male and female of chiggers,(have you ever seen a chigger?) that was making a home in the gopher wood pitched within and without.
No, you need that global flood or your belief is weakened.
I believe there was a flood, but since the Lord said Psa 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
I accept and believe that there was a flood, but local to the area, even the settling of the ark was in a mountain in the very area where it began. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Your arrogance is outrageous.
Quote from: Seth on April 12, 2014, 07:09:07 AM
Your arrogance is outrageous.
Yeah, this forum sure isn't what I thought it was going to be. It's getting a little hard to want to bother with it. Maybe a newbie shouldn't have joined....
Hey you guys
2Ti 2:24
The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged.
Shalom
Jock. :punish:
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 12, 2014, 06:57:10 AM
The fact that you need a global flood for your belief leaves me without any truth to supply. I will concede only to that belief, the one you need. You have no real idea or thought where this was, "The water increased more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered." It could have been an area, but you will not see that.
And will you or can you be very specific about, " All flesh that moved on the earth perished.." Just where and how much of "the earth" is/was involved? for you it must be global....why?
No you need a global flood for your religion, without it, your entire belief fails, that is very sad.
What did a global flood accomplish that a local flood could not? What exactly was destroyed, I mean just looking at the world and events today?
I dare not go into the thought of Noah stepping on the smallest of the smallest perhaps one, of a pair male and female of chiggers,(have you ever seen a chigger?) that was making a home in the gopher wood pitched within and without.
No, you need that global flood or your belief is weakened.
I believe there was a flood, but since the Lord said Psa 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
I accept and believe that there was a flood, but local to the area, even the settling of the ark was in a mountain in the very area where it began. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Actually, I don't need a global flood. It is hard for me to understand how such a flood, and the incredible devastation it represents, fulfilled the plan of God for that age., and like I said(if you really read it)- its not a big deal to me, not the deepest stuff. But I believe the scriptures are true, and as it is written in Genesis 7, I cannot read it any other way. It neither fortifies or weakens my faith, because my faith is in the God from whom the scriptures proceed by the spirit, and His Son, the Living Word, who revealed His love to me before I ever considered whether there was a flood, having grown up in a household where there was no faith of any kind.
Growing up in the Carolina's, I am very familiar with chiggers, aggravating lil buggers, tiny lil things, hard to see, bite like demons and itch like a fire- and hard to get rid of, but you don't want to let them hang around and lay eggs under your skin- then it gets really bad.
I am very bad at engineering so I'll have to ask you guys for input on this:
Would an ark with the dimensions described in Genesis 6 be big enough to hold two of every animal that existed in those days?
God set's the boundairies on evil as well as the sea/you may go this far and no further[the wicked is as the troubled sea.].
...and all mens thoughts were evil all the time..since the evilhad already exceeded it's boundaries/spiritually/God also
exceeded the boundary in the natural.. the law of sin/corruption.
two wittnesses.......and however they would try and kill the two wittness..in that manner they would be killed......
the wittness of the word of God and the spirit of God should dwell in the earth[He did not create it for nothing].
Today when evil thoughts in a man...kill him spiritually..the heavens can pour down rains of spiritual water..and
fountains of living water may come forth from his belly..wash away the wickedness.....and a dove in an olive tree finds
a place to dwell.
8 souls kept through it..with the spirit of God..in the form of dove having place of new beginning[resurrection] in a
cleansed earth. does God still bring clouds of rain on the earth..yes...and places His bow in it.....a promise /a colored ark
of light from above/heavens open and the Holy spirit descending in the bodily form of a dove./a Holy city of beautiful colours
now..if God didn't destroy wickedness from off all the earth.flood/water...and if fire does not burn up/consume wickedness of the old
heavens[powers/principalities in high places] and earth[surround camp of city He loves] then sin and evil /wickedness is not
removed/consumed with the breath of His coming..man of sin done away with at the breath of His coming.
and He makes all things new................there is a reason every man reckons his body[with sin] as good as dead...and
a reason he realizes his life is in the spirit.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Graph1159 on April 13, 2014, 01:16:09 AM
I am very bad at engineering so I'll have to ask you guys for input on this:
Would an ark with the dimensions described in Genesis 6 be big enough to hold two of every animal that existed in those days?
My opinion is that, yes, if a cubit was at least 18 inches, then 300 cubits by 50 by 30, three stories high would have been huge and the Ark would have been large enough for the animals.
However, I do not personally believe that there was a global flood which destroyed all animals and people.
Without considering evolution, there are many reasons for me that the Flood is unlikely, but a few of them go along these lines: Some animals can only live in certain regions and eat certain food. It stretches my reason and experience too far to accept that someone, in those days, could travel to Mauritius to acquire animals peculiar only to that region, and then travel to collect a platypus from Australia. Did Noah take the platypus breeders back to Australia after the flood? And so on. A global flood would silt over all plant life and some animals need trees to feed from, some birds need trees to nest in etc. The ratio of salt water to fresh water on Earth is around 40 to 1 and this will only have changed marginally in the last few thousand years, therefore salt would have contaminated all fresh water and (without evolution) there would be no fresh water fish today (I know the apologetics claim that "science proves" fresh water fish can live in salt water but this is only slightly salted water for a few "kinds" and a ratio of 40:1 - incidentally, "science proves" that the waters were salty a few thousand years BC).
These animals certainly couldn't swim to where Noah lived. And if God was going to use His Power and pick all the animals up and place them right by the Ark for Noah to place in cages (carnivores eat other animals), then God might as well not have bothered about a global flood and just wiped everyone out to leave eight people and breeding animals. But God is not like that: God has set up His laws and His Creation abides by those laws.
It goes on. These are just a few anomalies and a full debate could/would last months - and personally, I do not think God put us here to spend months debating the reality of the Flood, and that He has other things in Mind for His children.
We can assume and assume in order to make it all possible, but I find that assuming and stretching belief is not faith in Christ for me nor does it increase my faith in Christ.
I believe that the mother of the polar bear is 100,000 years old and it has evolved from that time into an Arctic bear today. I have personally seen a cross section of land that shows the present time and also Roman remains from two thousand years ago a few inches deeper - and then Neanderthal remains many, many metres deeper. There's something about seeing things for oneself that makes one accept God's gift of reason and logic as being applicable to the world. I do not believe - and I say with the sincerest respect - that the early teachers had access to, say, meticulous studies of dinosaur remains and so on, and they would have a world view accordingly. But please note: it is the same Christ we love and adore.
It is this reason and logic - as well as what I sincerely believe to be the Holy Spirit - that causes me to believe and have faith that Creation was "precipitated" by the Father through His Christ over aeons of time. It is not a problem for me - in fact, it is so beautiful and super/natural. God's Plan is truly magnificent - it opens up (to me) a little of the truly, truly Beautiful Mind and overseeing loving Heart of a God whose gifts to all of His children are far beyond a human's cognisance - a God who never lets go of His children, no matter how far they have fallen.
I promise that I belittle not believers in the Flood and young Earth, for you I have the highest respect as your belief is firmly grounded and I do understand (eway mol) and thank you for permitting me to be different.
Dear Father, I thank Thee for much yet I do not thank Thee enough, for Thy overseeing care, for the Gift of Thyself in Thy Son who is not only my Saviour but the Saviour of all mankind.
Quote from: Graph1159 on April 13, 2014, 01:16:09 AM
I am very bad at engineering so I'll have to ask you guys for input on this:
Would an ark with the dimensions described in Genesis 6 be big enough to hold two of every animal that existed in those days?
I would say even today's largest ship is big enough for every type of animal on earth. Keep in mind some animals like elephants eats huge quantities every day.
And food for the Nephlim of course, because they had to be on board because every breathing creature drowned and the Nephlim survived.
He could have brought baby elephants on board[more cmpact creature] God could have made all the animals snooze[hybernate
state] through the whole trip. I think 'other' nephilem were born..post flood era.[cursed be Canaan/serpent seed]
Nothing is impossible with God......... is there 'wiggle room' for God to have accomplished this in different ways then we are awre?
yes,I think so.......my :2c:
:cloud9: Here's a crazy thought. What if He gave Noah the wisdom, power and understanding to create "seed" form of every living creature prototype and they came into HIS "ark", as a covering, just like the tree of life is the covering for all the carnal beastly natures. Pattern same as mercy seat covering the ark of the covenant, which housed the tablets of stone/stony hearts = love covers a multitude of sins. My :2c: Blessings....
un-huh..and what if the ARK ofthe testimony was opened in heaven......and we find wheat[ form seed] as in a barn?
:cloud9: I hear you.... :banana:
And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple and there were flashes of lightning and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm Rv 11:19
And now Lord take note of their threats and grant that you servants may speak your word with great confidence while you extend your hand to heal and do signs and wonders in the name of your holy servant Jesus. And when they ad prayed the place where they had gathered together was shaken and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and they began to declare the word with great boldness Acts 4
Zecha 9;14-17 THEN THE LORD WILL APPEAR OVER THEM[tongues of fire?]
His arrow will flash like LIGHTENING
The Sovereign Lord will sound the trumpet,He will march in the storms of the south[Thunder/Wind] and the Lord Almighty
will sheild them. They will destroy and overcome with slingstones[HAIL] They will drink and ROAR AS WITH WINE;
they will be full like a bowl for sprinkling the corners of the alter.
The Lord their God will save them on that day as the flock of His people. They will sparkle in his land like jewels in
a crown. How attractive and beautiful they will be.
GRAIN will make the young men thrive and new wine the young women.
...........and when they had prayed the place where they were gathered togather was Shaken[EARTHQUAKE]
and they were filled with the Holy spirit and they began to declare the word with great boldness.