upside down

[ded2daworld]

I wonder what it would be like or if it would be any different if the tables were turned.
By that, I mean, what if UR was the "accepted dogma" of the "official church" and yet there were
small groups scattered around that believe in ET?
Would they use the same arguments we use against ET? Would they basically say majority rules so we are wrong?(as they do now)
Would they show the numerous bible passages that indicate UR? Would they explain away the few verses that seem to indicate ET?
OR, would they talk about the neverending, unconditional grace, love, and mercy by an omnipotent, omniscient God whose very essence and being is true love? :dontknow: :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

My own studies indicate to me that ET came to dominance thru dirty tricks, and remains in power thru fictions and Scripture-twisting.  This is only possible by our current style of Church-ianity, which is a chapter-and-verse buffet, a theological smorgasbord.  We need a unified view of our Bible, where each supports and confirms each, not just a random snatch of what furthers your agenda.  Remember that the same Bible can be used to further ET, ED, and UR.  Pick-and-choose, and there you are, fortunately or unfortunately... :2c:

[sheila]

....by the kings command each guest was allowed to drink in his own way,for the king instructed all wine

  stewards to serve each man what he wished.   

   the good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart......

   the parable of the sower.............still other seed fell on good soil..........

   ...let the reader use discernment........

   for the Word of God is living and active..sharper than any double-edged sword..it penetrates to dividing

  soul and spirit,joints and marrow; IT JUDGES THE THOUGHTS AND ATTITUDES OF THE HEART.....

   .....I know that after I leave..savage wolves will come in among you...and will not spare the flock

even from your own numbers men will arise and distort the truth to draw away men after themselves

   there is no fear in  love,perfect love drives out fear...BECAUSE FEAR HAS TO DO WITH PUNISHMENT

    genuine love confirms salvation...he who loves has been born of God

   and He has also given us this command......Whoever loves God must also love his brother

    see parable of GOOD SAMARITAN

   But He wanted to justify himself..so he asked Jesus..who is my neighbor?

   which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell among robbers?

  .....the one who had mercy on him..............Jesus told him..'GO AND DO LIKEWISE"

[ded2daworld]

So then, ET, UR, or ED...since scripture SEEMS to indicate all three, does it make sense that ultimately it it how we perceive
God? the Lover(UR) the sadist(ET) and justice without mercy (ED) :dontknow:

[Lazarus Short]

So then, ET, UR, or ED...since scripture SEEMS to indicate all three, does it make sense that ultimately it it how we perceive
God? the Lover(UR) the sadist(ET) and justice without mercy (ED) :dontknow:

I think it's mostly a matter of perspective and mis-understanding God's intent.  We know that reconciliation is universal and ultimate, but before God becomes All-in-all, there will be, IMO, some punishment and correction going on.  Even so, I think we get off easy...because God LOVES us.  :thumbsup:

[sheila]

  that's what I think,ded2.......it's all about heart.........the KINGDOM of the SON OF HIS LOVE Collosians 1;13

   Because  the Kingdom of God is within you..written in your heart..an epistle of love......... anew spirit

and the law of Love.....love never fails........... Place me like a seal over your heart,like a seal on your arm

   for love is a strong as death.........

[VineBranch]

I wonder what it would be like or if it would be any different if the tables were turned.
By that, I mean, what if UR was the "accepted dogma" of the "official church" and yet there were
small groups scattered around that believe in ET?
Would they use the same arguments we use against ET? Would they basically say majority rules so we are wrong?(as they do now)
Would they show the numerous bible passages that indicate UR? Would they explain away the few verses that seem to indicate ET?
OR, would they talk about the neverending, unconditional grace, love, and mercy by an omnipotent, omniscient God whose very essence and being is true love? :dontknow: :Peace2:

I've often found that the best way to understand the other person's argument is to defend it.  Maybe you could defend the ET position ded:  see what you come up with.

I have seen many churches use different doctrines, and they all seem to have thing in common:  those in power, do what they have to, to stay in power.  Fear is control.

I suspect (I think that qualifies as an IMO) that if the UR contingent was in power, there would a group of priests, overlords, elders, nondescript bullies, etc. who would be telling people, 'you know, that is a lot of freedom, you might to ask us how to use it properly.'

[marie glen]

.....OR, would they talk about the neverending, unconditional grace, love, and mercy by an omnipotent, omniscient God whose very essence and being is true love? :dontknow: :Peace2:

Your last sentence, ded2theworld, really jumped out at me. I've been pondering a couple of verses these last two days. What Jesus said after spending a couple of days with the Samaritans after speaking with the woman at the well in the gospel of John. His disciples wanted Him to eat something, saying He had not eaten all day, but He said "I have food to eat that you don't know of. My meat is to do the will of He who sent me and to complete His work. Don't say, at the end of the season is harvest. Look at the fields.. they are white to harvest already." (Remember the Samaritans wanted Him to stay longer..)
- What is the harvest? People to believe, people eager to believe! If only we (someone) could get the message right! Every group of believers has something either inaccurate or weird. Myself included more than likely, though of course I hope not! :)

...You wrote: "OR, would they talk about the neverending, unconditional grace, love, and mercy by an omnipotent, omniscient God whose very essence and being is true love?"
I think that's eXactly what so many people are waiting for! And would love to hear! And to hear of a future with that wonderful God and essence in a beautiful world and universe, whose people and beings, even animals, are filled with that essence, and not anything ever occurs which is not full to overflowing with that Perfection of character and fullness of everything good and rich/verdant, and only good..

[ded2daworld]

Thanks for the comments y'all. (yes I'm from the south)

[reFORMer]

The problem is more basic than adjusting the teaching of certain doctrinal viewpoints.  We aren't to be audiences enabling one paid man's ministry.  It's OK to pay someone who needs to be set aside for systematic exegesis of scripture or, if needed, to engage in counseling if there are enough people (or money) and if there is such a demand.  But this Pastor system inherited from the partial reformation of the mid-1500's needs to be left behind.  We need to gather as a body for the presence of the Lord to take over, potentially expressed through each one present; which is to say, as "brethren" on common ground, we are to meet under the headship of Christ -- and this statement short changes the situation we're in.  Deep dependence on clergy and pulpit centric "church" is not what the writings of the Holy Spirit reveal as the agenda for this new creation in Christ.

[micah7:9]

The problem is more basic than adjusting the teaching of certain doctrinal viewpoints.  We aren't to be audiences enabling one paid man's ministry.  It's OK to pay someone who needs to be set aside for systematic exegesis of scripture or, if needed, to engage in counseling if there are enough people (or money) and if there is such a demand.  But this Pastor system inherited from the partial reformation of the mid-1500's needs to be left behind.  We need to gather as a body for the presence of the Lord to take over, potentially expressed through each one present; which is to say, as "brethren" on common ground, we are to meet under the headship of Christ -- and this statement short changes the situation we're in.  Deep dependence on clergy and pulpit centric "church" is not what the writings of the Holy Spirit reveal as the agenda for this new creation in Christ.

:thumbsup:

[VineBranch]

The problem is more basic than adjusting the teaching of certain doctrinal viewpoints.  We aren't to be audiences enabling one paid man's ministry.  It's OK to pay someone who needs to be set aside for systematic exegesis of scripture or, if needed, to engage in counseling if there are enough people (or money) and if there is such a demand.  But this Pastor system inherited from the partial reformation of the mid-1500's needs to be left behind.  We need to gather as a body for the presence of the Lord to take over, potentially expressed through each one present; which is to say, as "brethren" on common ground, we are to meet under the headship of Christ -- and this statement short changes the situation we're in.  Deep dependence on clergy and pulpit centric "church" is not what the writings of the Holy Spirit reveal as the agenda for this new creation in Christ.

So would you endorse groups like the Quakers, or Plymouth Brethren, or maybe even Shakers (Society of Friends) as having found something of the right method of assembly?