Levels of salvation?

[WhiteWings]

The parable of the prodigal son: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32

The story is clear. One son goes away and wastes his everything on wild living. He returns home. His father is very happy and very forgiving.

Does that put the son on the same level as his brother who stayed behind?

v31 His father said to him, 'Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours.

So it's clear that the brother gets the whole farm when the father dies and the prodigal son nothing.
What does that teach?

a] Different levels of salvation. While the prodigal son was saved he will receive a lower rank in heaven because of his past sins.
b] Nothing because the prodigal son got his full share and wasted it; and the farm is the share of his brother. In other words one got his share in cash, the other in property. No 'revenge' of any kind is implied.
c] Something different.

[GodIsLove]

I posted a hasty reply and then deleted it, read the passage again and thought about it and read some other perspectives on it and here are some of my thoughts:

The older son isn't the "more saved" son or the "higher level salvation" son.

Jesus told the story to show that the Father has two lost sons--one was the prodigal who returned and who the father ran to meet. We all know his faults.

The other is the older son. The behavior of the older son shows he's lost as well, and this time the father goes out to seek him and bring him back.  The older son is bitter, jealous, and doesn't show love for his father or brother. He says he served and obeyed his father, not that he loved his father. He refuses to celebrate the return of his brother.

I think this story shows two ways in which we can be lost and how we can either hit bottom and come back to the Father (and he will run to embrace us) or we can be outside and he will come to seek us and bring us back.

He has enough grace for all, and "all that is mine" is for all.

Edit: I also read that the older son represented the Pharisees and the younger son interestingly associated with prostitutes and this was the criticism that the Pharisees had of Jesus, so that detail shows that the people Jesus was associating with will be embraced by God with forgiveness when they come to him, and the Pharisees will act like the older son, because they worshiped God in their actions but not their hearts but felt they were closest to God and superior to the rest.

[WhiteWings]

Ok, but still it reads "everything I have is yours"

Could that be being part of the 1000 year  Kingdom for example.
Whatever it means, it's  statement that really means something. It's not just a page filler.

[sheila]

excellent,GIL! 

  Mark 10;30 many who are first will be last and the last first.  Do we not know that He would leave the 99 righteous to recover

the one lost?[ my God,my God why hast thou forsaken me?] If Jesus had that elder brother's mindset...allof us[mankind]  would not have

an eternal inheritance...the kingdom prepared for us. :2c:

  can I not do what I want with my things?..I want to give him the same..or..is your eye evil? Better to pluck out the evil eye than for

  the whole body to perish.

   ALL things are yours,whether life death.......

[GodIsLove]

WW,
Like shelia said:

1 Corinthians 3:21 "Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours"

My interpretation is: It doesn't matter when we decide to follow Christ, the promise is the same.

Just my opinion/interpretation

[Dandelion]

Matthew 20:1-16New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
20 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 "About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5 So they went.

"He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

7 "'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.

"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8 "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

9 "The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 'These who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

13 "But he answered one of them, 'I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

I think this explains that, it doesn't matter when you start....God is generous and desires that all come to Him.....sooner or later.......the essence of UR, in many ways.

A church I was attending had a book study on this. The book was called, The Prodigal God, by Timothy Keller. It was based on the story of the Prodigal Son. Yes, indeed, both sons had some serious issues to work out.

D.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  it just come to my mind...no flesh willboast..and that is what the elder son wasdoing...and that Jesus did not fall

  into that spiritualtrap/snare/prison...saying even...why do you callme good..only God is good. so we have an apparently

  'good' son andan apparently bad son[tokogae] with both their hearts and minds being alienated from God in different ways/times.

  .........that He bound us all up in sin[missingmark of  perfection in love]..in order to have mercy unto all[HIS PERFECT LOVE]

    He is sooooo wise..this Father of ours.  at times it isjust overwhelming tome to contemnplate what He is..and is doing..and will

  do...out of His great Love. Bless Him,O'Bless Him! Deut 7;13  May God  BE LOVED AND INCREASE..Bless the fruit of God's womb

  andthe crops ofHis land..Bless Your grain,Father,,and the New Wine and oil..Bless your calves,lambs and flocks....May God be

exalted and Blessed with Abundance....and all adversaries of His be blotted out.  may all cry out 'BEAUTIFUL! PERFECT IN ALL

HIS WAYS"  :girlheart:

[marie glen]

The prodigal son parable was in my morning reading and I remembered this thread. :gsmile: (Good morning!) To me, the parable shows a few things.. (which likely have already been mentioned :laughing7: ) that neither son was "righteous" but both were lacking and needed to be saved and filled with God's Spirit, whether they had spent their self in riotous living.. or not.

Even those who seem to live a good moral life (etc) are still in need of this. And sometime under pressure, that need, and lack, is sure to come out. There's riotous living. There's also envy, gossip.. etc.

Also this parable shows me the Father's love for both. He saw the lost one from a long way off.. Likely because He was watching for him? The boy's father in the parable, was worried - wouldn't we be too? If our child we loved, no matter what age, went off and was living dangerously off in the world? Praying and waiting, watching and hoping. By this story, Jesus showing the Father's tender love.

And the son not so obvious and outward a sinner, was loved too.. "Everything I have and have toiled at, I share with you and it's yours, you can kill the fatted calf any time to celebrate with your friends.. because I love you and you're my son, so all that I have I freely share with you as tho it is yours..

Also, of course Jesus was very likely showing to the Pharisees, as He was 'wont to do', their pride, etc. Instead of rejoicing in people coming to faith and love of Yahweh, and being healed, etc, they were angry, gnashing their teeth.. Like the woman bent over for 18 years.. instead of rejoicing when she is set free, they gnash their teeth at Jesus and the people, saying it's a crime to heal or be healed on the Sabbath.

Even though they are not outwardly living a riotous life, they are still very much lacking! (To say the least! They are supposed to care about these people, aren't they?)

They are like Balaam, more concerned for their own self, their own profit.. their own seats of power.. For self. They are carnal and firmly in that carnal nature, where love of self trumps any love for others.

This of course is the soul/psyche (person, personality, individual) without God.. without true faith and allegiance to Him and without being filled by His Spirit.

But now to both sons.. all the Father has, is theirs.. That's our inheritance. And it is glorious! :banana: Our inheritance, ultimately, is Him! :cloud9: And we shall share His nature. Where outflowing love rules.. Love for others trumps self interest and concern for self.. for that carnal (called flesh, sarkos(?) nature/lack of character has been reckoned as crucified with Christ and has died/been put to death.
But where the worm did not so much die, but became a butterfly. Which, of course, as we know, is the whoLe objective. (Goal, prize.. Glory, etc. And how blessed are we, to be aware of this now, and will 'reign' with Jesus - share that pristine nature.. rest (and work?) with Him during the millennium. And during judgment 'day' (age?) when all those initially not as blessed, come back to life (that itself being a blessing!) ...But I am straying from the topic! :laughing7:
:Peace2:

[sheila]

Amen,Marie...

[joeteekay]

The parable Jesus spoke may find a parallel in the story about Abraham and his two sons Isaac and Esau.

Abraham represents the Father in the parable. The father being God Almighty.

Isaac represents the son who stayed home and was to inherit all. This son represents the first fruits who are Christ's at his coming. The son of promise (Gal. 4)

Esau represents the prodigal son who lived a riotous life but was finally accepted by the father. The son of Hagar, under bondage. This son represents all those who will be saved at the White throne Judgement.

All mankind will be saved, some soon, some later. Those saved in this eon will have the greater reward.

This parable of Jesus Christ teaches the grand truth of the salvation of ALL.  :banana:

[marie glen]

Amen! Like I read in another thread "Love conquers aLL!"

Today I was reading where Peter writes a quote - (1 Peter 4) 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And (here's the quote) "If the righteous one is scarcely saved Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

[quoted as from Proverbs 11:31? (a footnote says)
"If the righteous will be recompensed on the earth, How much more the ungodly and the sinner."]

..but inspried by the Holy Spirit Peter writes where will the unGodly appear? which when I read that, the verse from Romans came to mind.. "the wages of sin is death" -- So in order for the unGodly to "appear" somewhere, it seemed to me a reference to resurrection of "the unGodly" and the great white throne judgment (of them)

I've been coming across verses about "prisoners" (other than 1 Peter 3:19; 1:11?) like Psalm 79:11 Let the groaning of the prisoner come before You; According to the greatness of Your power Preserve those who are appointed to die;

and, Psalm 146:7 Who executes justice for the oppressed, Who gives food to the hungry. The Lord sets free the prisoners

Proverbs 31:8 Open your mouth for the speechless, In the cause of all who are appointed to die.
--------

As we continue in His word, happily, as I'm sure with others, i'm finding it shifts to our mind.. from any impressions of ET or EA, to UR / "love never fails" but conquers all.. both written outright and also not AS outright.. all through the Bible.
:Peace2: :banana:

[bushy]

The parable of the prodigal son: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32

The story is clear. One son goes away and wastes his everything on wild living. He returns home. His father is very happy and very forgiving.

Does that put the son on the same level as his brother who stayed behind?

v31 His father said to him, 'Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours.

So it's clear that the brother gets the whole farm when the father dies and the prodigal son nothing.
What does that teach?

a] Different levels of salvation. While the prodigal son was saved he will receive a lower rank in heaven because of his past sins.
b] Nothing because the prodigal son got his full share and wasted it; and the farm is the share of his brother. In other words one got his share in cash, the other in property. No 'revenge' of any kind is implied.
c] Something different.

An interesting thing I read this morning made me think there are different levels of salvation.

https://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/daily-weblogs/2017/10-2017/first-corinthians-15-two-bodies/

The Analogy of Heavenly Bodies

Paul continues with another analogy in 1 Corinthians 15:40, 41, 42,

40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

Verse 40 establishes the distinction between "heavenly bodies and earthly bodies." In other words, our present body is earthly, but it will be different from the resurrected body, which is heavenly. That is the first distinction. But even the heavenly bodies themselves are unique, such as the sun, the moon, and the stars. Furthermore, each star differs in glory. Hence, all things in nature illustrate the principle of unique resurrection, for "God gives it a body just as He wished."

This relates directly to the topic of rewards. Isaiah 62:11 says,

11 Behold, the Lord has proclaimed to the end of the earth, Say to the daughter of Zion, "Lo, your salvation [yesha] comes; behold, His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him."

This is a prophecy of Jesus (Yeshua), for this is how it is treated in Revelation 22:12, where Jesus tells John,

12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done."

We have already seen that there is more than one resurrection. The First Resurrection gives life in The Age to the overcomers, and their glory is greater than what is given to the rest of the church in the general resurrection. It is called "a better resurrection" in Hebrews 11:35. Paul called it "the prize" in Philippians 3:14.

When Paul speaks of the differing glories of the sun, moon, and stars, we might also relate this to the First Resurrection, where the glory of the sun is granted to the overcomers, followed by the general resurrection, where the glory of the moon is granted to the church, followed ultimately by the Creation Jubilee at the end of time, where the glory of the stars is granted to the rest of humanity. The multitude of stars, each having different magnitudes (or "glory"), portrays the unique differences that will characterize them as well. Though their glory will be less than the sun and the moon, yet they too will shine with the glory of God.

[Lazarus Short]

WW,
Like shelia said:

1 Corinthians 3:21 "Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours"

My interpretation is: It doesn't matter when we decide to follow Christ, the promise is the same.

Just my opinion/interpretation

I always come around to I Corinthians 15:28 which tells us that God will be All in all.  At that point, all differences of the past are surely put aside.

[sheila]

,,,it occurred to me the passages in Job....and Father mentioning the Pleides etcamong others regarding Heavenly arrangements.....

....tome....it is about body members and functions in the all.....hands can't say they have no use of feet etc.......

      this is what get from it as to each star and  placement in the Heavens.

[Patinak]

Well, I've found myself being pulled in to this one :doh:

Even the term "levels of salvation" doesn't even make sense to me.  Does this mean that someone is saved more than I am, or that I am saved more than someone else?  I must agree with Laz concerning this: "I always come around to I Corinthians 15:28 which tells us that God will be All in all.  At that point, all differences of the past are surely put aside."

As far as the magnitudes of glory as mentioned in the article that Bushy referred to, it occurred to me that it may be true from our point of view (as humans on Earth) that the Sun might have more magnitude than the moon and the stars, but in the scheme of the (God created) universe, it is just another star, and not much of a star (as stars go), so I don't know that I can agree with the conclusion that the writer offers, that 'our star' is more glorious (than other stars). I don't think Paul is giving examples of greater and lesser, but rather that each is different, just as we are, which is definitely true.
  :iagree: Sheila: "it is about body members and functions in the all.....hands can't say they have no use of feet etc....".    ...and without the Sun to reveal it, we might not even know we have a Moon.

[rosered]

Well, I've found myself being pulled in to this one :doh:

Even the term "levels of salvation" doesn't even make sense to me.  Does this mean that someone is saved more than I am, or that I am saved more than someone else?  I must agree with Laz concerning this: "I always come around to I Corinthians 15:28 which tells us that God will be All in all.  At that point, all differences of the past are surely put aside."

As far as the magnitudes of glory as mentioned in the article that Bushy referred to, it occurred to me that it may be true from our point of view (as humans on Earth) that the Sun might have more magnitude than the moon and the stars, but in the scheme of the (God created) universe, it is just another star, and not much of a star (as stars go), so I don't know that I can agree with the conclusion that the writer offers, that 'our star' is more glorious (than other stars). I don't think Paul is giving examples of greater and lesser, but rather that each is different, just as we are, which is definitely true.
  :iagree: Sheila: "it is about body members and functions in the all.....hands can't say they have no use of feet etc....".    ...and without the Sun to reveal it, we might not even know we have a Moon.

  :thumbsup:

I have always thought if   this world is the darkness   and the light is in you , now is that time to Shine  ,a star is born    [above]  :winkgrin:
The moon  /law of  Moses  is the shadow  of those good things  to come .  I can see levels of salvation  in this part being   faithful in a ''few things'' and'' unrighteous mammon ''...   Jesus fulfills ''all the law''  in that sense   as being the   Ruler /Master of the Plan [ Because Jesus is the rewarder of those   ''gifts unto men ''.

salvation definition. In Christianity, union or friendship with God and deliverance from original sin/ separation   from God  and damnation/judgment  , the death sentence . Jesus promised salvation to his followers.   

  Because in the   Son /Sun , there is no   distinction( Light of Life ]   that all have ,'' come to into being '' ,   till God be all in all

  those promises to me are ,  those that die   like Jesus did [forgiving the world of trespass] , will live and those that  live because of Him/Rules the heart , will never die , but are changed permanently as  the Holy Spirit rules  .

But those that are dead /   in darkness all days of their human existence  /carnally minded   will not live till they SEE HIM /THE LIGHT and they will ,,  because Salvation  is of God .   Blessed are those whom have not seen Him and believe [by faith]  :dsunny:   but those that SEE  HIM  will believe ... , Every Eye ! ,even those whom have pierced Him Rev 1 , 7


Romans 1  16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.

17For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish,

just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."...

Blinded by the Light  ,  I know Paul was a great example of that   road to Damascus  experience  . In Biblical the meaning of the name Damascus is: A sack full of blood, the similitude of burning.

I can see the meaning as  a simple  truth being   scripture  , in Hebrews 12 you have not resisted to sin by the shedding of blood / life is in the blood  God Disciplines His Sons


3Consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

5And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you....

and the burning of our hearts as the Holy Spirit  burns away all the dross  and the LIGHT shines forth from it   as a NOON DAY SUN , being children of the light and of the day ..

Gods presence [ For me it is the Spirit of Love ] is that consuming fire  in you  , having both the Father and the  Son .   being the   SAME Spirit of Truth and the Word of Truth   union  working in you .and the Truth shall set you Free . 

:dsunny: :HeartThrob:

 

[sheila]

Patinak...the moon is Jerusalem Above's sign..of which we are 'born again"from.   :thumbsup:

[Patinak]

Patinak...the moon is Jerusalem Above's sign..of which we are 'born again"from.   :thumbsup:

Sheila,
Please explain this a little...
Pat

[sheila]

Joseph's dream..of the sun  moon and stars bowing down unto him....stars/brothers,sun/father and ,moon/mother.

    Jerusalem Above/Wisdom,Mt Zion...represent Our Mother,from which we are born again. Heavenly celestial spirit bodies

  representing male/female and offspring.Psalms 84;7 they go from strength to strength,til each appears to God in Zion.

    Psalms 87;2  The Lord loves the gates of Zion more than all the  dwellings of  Jacob.87;5,6 Indeedof Zion it will be said

  'This one and that were born in her,and the Most High himself will establish her,   THE Lord will write  in the register of the peoples;

    THIS ONE WAS BORN IN ZION. Zechariah 1;14  Then the angel who was speaking to me said, 'Proclaim this word; This is what

  the Lord Almighty says,'I AM VERY JEALOUS FOR JERUSALEM AND ZION,BUT I AM VERY ANGRY WITH THE NATIONS THAT FEEL

SECURE. I was only alittle angry,but they added to the calamity..

   Zechariah 9;11   as for you,because of the bloodofMy covenant,I will free your prisoners from the waterless[waters of life] pit[grave].

...17 How attractive and beautiful they will be! Grain[bread] will make the young men thrive, and NEW WINE the young women.


      Monthly calendars..associated with females as to reproductive functions...women bear children.   The tree of life on both sides

of the river.....EACH MONTH THEY BEAR THEIR FRUIT.

   The dove is also one of  her symbols.   When Jesus come up from the Jordan the Holy spirit in the bodily form of a dove come

and remained on Him....I AM from Above,ye are  from below.  Doves are all breast[nurturing of offspring]in love.  We must be

wise as the serpent[to gain mastery over him...and crush his head/thoughts],yet innocent as the dove[love].

    Just as God took a rib out of the side of Adam to make him his wife...so,too, Our Father took a portion of His substance and 

  and made Jerusalem Above.  As a man and wife become one flesh....Father and Jerusalem Above are one spirit.


    Isaaih 11;2...The BRANCH...the spirit of the Lord and the spirit of wisdom and of understanding.  All will meet her.

   God said 'it is not good for man to be alone"  It was not goodfor God to be alone,either.  He planned a family.