When I first discovered the REAL good news (UR) I was overwhelmed.
When I started talking about it with others, I was a little shocked.
I can see they believed ET because that's all they've heard all their life but,
once you've heard the really good news that NO ONE will be tortured for all
eternity it's like answered prayer - all the people they've prayed for all their lives will be reconciled to God.
God says in his word that all the people you've prayed for will one day
"come to Jesus" bow their knee to him and declare with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.
That's fantastic news - your prayers will be answered.
So what's the problem? Twofold. 1.) God isn't saving people the way the ET person thinks he should
and He's doing it on his timetable. and 2.)The ET person must believe that some people are so bad
that they actually deserve ET. After all, their pastor/preacher/priest has told them that we ALL deserve eternal torture but, for the grace of God and us, of our own free will "accepting Jesus,"Then a few of us will get eternal bliss being blessed.
They even tell the lie that "God doesn't send you to hell, you send yourself there by refusing to believe in Jesus."
Saving 5%?? The ETer's think that's the best that an omnipotent, omniscient, God can do? Gimmee a break
God has a plan that he implemented before the foundation of the world. Some are going to be "saved" while they are still living and will give an account of themselves after death, and some will be "saved" after death where they will give an account and be shown the whole truth, cleansed and purified by our God who is a "consuming fire"
Why would people turn their back on the Good News? Do they think it's TOO good so it must not be true, or do they just hate the thought of some really bad people escaping eternal torment?
Because Christianity has become much about believing certain things in order to gain entrance into heaven. Believing heresy such as UR not only jeopardizes that but would also make them outcasts. Also, many read their Bibles see eternal....hell...etc and think its open and shut. Few are willing to research out on their own. So, in most cases it's fear based.
Then there is a darker sect, people I believe think some people deserve to be tortured for eternity. It's evil in a church suit.
I think so too Shawn. Hitler Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot are usually given as examples of people that should burn eternally.
They don't know what to do with Noriega since he "accepted" Christ, repented and studied his Bible in prison before his death. Same with Jeffrey Dahmer.
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 15, 2012, 04:56:08 AM
Why would people turn their back on the Good News? Do they think it's TOO good so it must not be true, or do they just hate the thought of some really bad people escaping eternal torment?
Beyond and above the working of the god of this age is the God of Jesus Christ. All things are worked by Him for His pleasure and purpose. Even those who have experienced God in the new birth and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are blinded to the evangel, or, "good news" because they are unbelieving. The Cherubim are still operating sWORDs of fire that turn in every direction to prevent access to the tree of life.
2 Corinthians 4
3-4 (Concordant Literal Translation)
Now, if our evangel is covered, also, it is covered in those who are perishing,
in whom the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them.
2 Corinthians 4
3-4 (Young's Literal Translation)
. . . and if also our good news is vailed, in those perishing it is vailed, in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;
Subsequent to this exposure of the spiritual working of a veil (upon all peoples) which prevents the Glory (in which we are otherwise changed into the Divine Image,) the creation account is called upon as a parallel, the emphasis here being the world within. It is a re-creation for God to speak in order that our passions and motives, our knowledge also becomes illuminated so we come into the Glory, perceiving the true nature of Jesus who is anointed for us. We are dependent on God's freely speaking to us; or, darkness is upon the face of our waters and who we are cannot be ascertained.
Salvation, liberation, glorification and all God's work conforming us to the Image of His Son, are done in such a way that it is obviously accomplished by God. We don't, and indeed can't do these works, not even with the Holy Spirit's help. It is the Glory of God which He will not share with another. As long as belief is in ourselves God cannot honor our faith with His light, His speaking. But consider how it is that right now the treasure is in the physical realm, the dimension our bodies inhabit. That must be unveiled. We are going to manifest what God has wrought, the body being liberated by Glory. The power and radiance of God is exceeding great.
2 Corinthians 4
3-4 (Young's Literal Translation)
. . . because [it is] God who said, Out of darkness light [is] to shine, who did shine in our hearts, for the enlightening of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us;
Light behaves as a particle, so that it can behave as a wave.
they would see that Moses' face was shining. Then Moses would put the veil back on until he went in again to speak with the LORD.
--Ex 34:35
Wow reF! Awesome! :cloud9:
If everyone goes to be with God...we aren't able to judge anyone.Nonoe can be "better than".Hell is the option, when we can't forgive for some people.
What's weird is that we are going to judge the angels...I don't guess the ones that never rebelled but the 1/3 that joined the devil in his rebellion.
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 15, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
What's weird is that we are going to judge the angels...I don't guess the ones that never rebelled but the 1/3 that joined the devil in his rebellion.
What God explains the stars, He says that they are, ". . .
for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years, and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth . . . and God giveth them in the expanse of the heavens
to give light upon the earth, and
to rule over day and over night, and
to make a separation between the light and the darkness . . ." (Genesis 1
14-15, 17-18 Young's Literal Translation)
The first opening of the sun, moon and the stars as
"signs" is Joseph's dream where the stars bowed down to his star. Here the stars are not angels, but the patriarchs (who are men) that shed the light of the heavens upon the earth. Yet the traditional interpretation continues, of "stars" as angels, from which is derived the extra-biblical doctrine that a third of the angels fell and went with Satan. "And seen was another sign in heaven, and lo! a great fiery-red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads seven diadems. And its tail is dragging a third of the stars of heaven, and casts them into the earth. . ." Revelation (Unveiling) 12
3-4, (Concordant Literal Translation) I'm not convinced that the conjecture is warranted because the quotations used don't say so. I don't believe it because of no scripture to hang your hat on.
Not just stars, but even concerning the heaven they're in, there's certainly something missed in most peoples' reveries about the place: ". . . a battle occurred in heaven. Michael and his messengers battle with the dragon, and the dragon battles, and its messengers." Revelation (Unveiling) 12
7 (Concordant Literal Translation) It doesn't sound like anybody can escape the warfare by dying.
To go a little farther, death is not portrayed as so sure a way to "heaven" or, Paradise anyway, as is said in cartoon Christianity. Not only did Paul go there without dying, on the day of Pentecost Peter says the proof that King David did not ascend into heaven is his tomb was with them even to that day.
"No one has ascended into heaven except the son of man that has descended from heaven"
reF, God gave me a vision about stars/stardust the other night! Cool!
It is little known, but the constellations of the zodiac, and other constellations associated with them, tell the same story as the Bible, just in primitive, symbolic form. It's all in the book The Glory of the Stars by Raymond Capt. A lot of people dismiss this as occult knowledge, horoscopes, or astrology, but I say that astrology is a degeneration of what was once a genuine path to knowledge.
I would compare the story told by the constellations with the very ancient, pictographic meanings of the Hebrew alphabet, in which "YHWH" means "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail" or Jesus.
And seen was another sign in heaven, and lo! a great fiery-red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads seven diadems. And its tail is dragging a third of the stars of heaven, and casts them into the earth.
this could be refering to both angels and or men. The woman is giving birth to the manchild, (The resurection) Created new beings made like unto Jesus, some like the glory of the moon, other planets, as God sees fit. But lo some knocked, open to us Lord, but he said I never knew you. Someone entered heaven without a wedding garment, 'hey how did you get in here', bind him hand and foot and cast him where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
It was the wedding celebration he missed. Instead of "so it was for ever more," I think I can see the Master going out afterward to see if his discipline was working. Maybe He loosens the feet to see where the one in outer darkness will go. There remains the time the married couple will spend together.
I was just reading Matt 11:27 in which Jesus says no one will know the Father except those that Jesus "may wish to reaveal Him". God is in control of who knows and does not. How can there be eternal punishment for something a person has no control of? We were bound to vanity, futility by God. How can a just God hold me accountable when He Himself has done it? No, I believe for some reason (God only knows why) we must walk this path of death, but that is not the end of the story...
Quote from: Deena on November 17, 2012, 12:12:05 PM
I was just reading Matt 11:27 in which Jesus says no one will know the Father except those that Jesus "may wish to reaveal Him". God is in control of who knows and does not. How can there be eternal punishment for something a person has no control of? We were bound to vanity, futility by God. How can a just God hold me accountable when He Himself has done it? No, I believe for some reason (God only knows why) we must walk this path of death, but that is not the end of the story...
I like it :thumbsup:
Quote from: Deena on November 17, 2012, 12:12:05 PM
I was just reading Matt 11:27 in which Jesus says no one will know the Father except those that Jesus "may wish to reaveal Him". God is in control of who knows and does not. How can there be eternal punishment for something a person has no control of? We were bound to vanity, futility by God. How can a just God hold me accountable when He Himself has done it? No, I believe for some reason (God only knows why) we must walk this path of death, but that is not the end of the story...
It's true. Yet, he gets angry at them. He does. We see this in both the Old and New Testaments. So they do have some responsibility in the matter.
He calls them lovers of the lie, so if they love lies, he will send them a strong delusion.
There is a certain stubborness addressed here. He calls them 'stiff-necked.' If your neck is stiff, you can't turn the head, you cannot repent.
I've seen it in otherwise intelligent people, that stubborness that prevents them from giving the truth any purchase at all, lest they themselves be dimished.
He also says we have hearts of stone and that he will make it anew into a heart of flesh.
P.S. This has nothing to do with the Rolling Stones song "Heart of Stone" although that maybe where they got the expression.
Could it be that God gets angry at evil's occurence (sinfulness) to act as a foil, a contrast to show what God does like and praise, i.e. mercy, love etc.? Evil is God's tool to reveal Himself by dramatically contrasting it? Could He simply be showing us what He is not? We are but sheep and children--It is hard for me to believe He is mad at us personally. I am His creation. Whatever I am it must be for His purposes, so why get mad at me? It does't make sense.
Life is learning
How will we understand right unless we know wrong?
How will we know "good times" unless we have bad times?
How could we understand good without seeing evil?
It was Adam and Eves sin(very first human wrong) that let them know (understand)right from wrong.
Rich and poor
haves and have nots
How would we have understood knowing the Lord if we had not
at one time not known the Lord?
and it's not Love and hate. They are both deep passions.
"I loved Jacob but Esau I hated" from a God of love?
Yes because the contrast of love isn't hate but apathy.
The world tells us that if there is a God, he doesn't care
(eg God let their dearly loved mother or Father die)
But God tells us through his word that he loves us and cares
for us and it is his power that holds every particle of the universe
together for our benefit.
Quote from: Deena on November 17, 2012, 04:56:02 PM
Could it be that God gets angry at evil's occurence (sinfulness) to act as a foil, a contrast to show what God does like and praise, i.e. mercy, love etc.? Evil is God's tool to reveal Himself by dramatically contrasting it? Could He simply be showing us what He is not? We are but sheep and children--It is hard for me to believe He is mad at us personally. I am His creation. Whatever I am it must be for His purposes, so why get mad at me? It does't make sense.
I agree with you. It sounds like a contridiction to say, God loves us, blinds us, hardens our hearts, we can't come to him unless he drags us, and then say God is going to punish us for any wrong we do. :dontknow: :eek:
I think God is going to correct us so that we know what is truth but how does he do this? I think by teaching, correcting experience. I think the whole world will learn the truth just like we have...not that we know it all. That is why we will be salted with fire also. Only thing is, we won't be "hurt by it"/second death. Why would God punish us for something he caused... and I firmly believe he is the cause of everything.
Just my :2c: CHB
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, ...
how often would I have gathered thy children together,
even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, <-Longing, Sadness, Love
and ye would not! <--Despair, Anger, Frustration
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate <--Judgment
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.<---Future redemption
--Mat 23
Am I the only one who can feel empathy with him? The range of emotions is so like our own.
Yeah, It's like we were created in His image or something.
Or that was the human part of God
or a combination of the two
Reminds me of the shortest and most profound verse in the Bible:
"Jesus wept."
By faith I am able to stand before God.
I have noticed the less I evaluate How God sees me.
The clearer my conscience is when I try to stand in front of him.
A)I was sure, very sure, that years ago the way to pray or come into the presences
of God was that I should examine my self. When I did this and I had been on a run of
good and Godly things going on in my live I felt bold in the thrown room.
B)When I examined my self and had recently been involved in a besetting sin
I still prayed to God but in a much more fearful and humble way.
The Spirit revealed to me that when I came before God .A) I was stinking up the thrown room with self righteousness .
The Spirit revealed to me that when I came before God. B) I was stinking up the thrown room with self pity.
Then how can I pray at all and why.
Then I was completely set free to pray and stand before God at will.
I talk to God through the spirit any time any where.
When do I talk to God? When ever I want to.
Why do I talk to God? Because I want to.
Jesus did for me that which I could not do for myself .
He justified me before God.( no surprise to God it was his plan all along).
I am able to stand in front of God because I believe that Jesus said I could
and I should .
The more faith I rely on the less me I see.
You can only be made Holy by Faith .
You can believe that you are Holy, because God has declared
to the universe and any one or thing that might be interested .
That Jesus Is Holy.
The comforter the Holy Spirit sent to me
specifically to tell me that God like wise when he declared Jesus Holy
has declared me Holy.
Now I have only my Faith in what the spirit of God has told me.
I can no longer rely on myself to find right and wrong
good or bad, I look solely for opportunities.
To Love to let my faith grow as the Spirit leads.
I have very little opportunity and less inclination to look for sin
in my life, let alone some one else's sin.
That's great Daj. Growing in the spirit. :thumbsup: :Pray:
I think there are many aspects of Gods character, love is one aspect. In the old testament God is very power oriented and concerned with riches, authority, lands, titles, hes busy kicking ass and taking names. But in the new testament he reveals a more humble side, through Christ, but yet also an extremely demanding Christ, then through Paul he reveals Gods grace and mercyful ways by extending to the gentiles and allowing them to live a more casual Christian experience.
I'll admit I've never read that expressed like that before
nor did anything like that ever occur to me.
Interesting perspective. :sigh:
Quote from: thinktank on November 20, 2012, 10:50:43 PM
I think there are many aspects of Gods character, love is one aspect. In the old testament God is very power oriented and concerned with riches, authority, lands, titles, hes busy kicking ass and taking names. But in the new testament he reveals a more humble side, through Christ, but yet also an extremely demanding Christ, then through Paul he revealto live a more s Gods grace and mercyful ways by extending to the gentiles and allowing them casual Christian experience.
I think this is a function of getter closer and closer to him, or us, the children of God, being encouraged to move from stranger to servant to friend. He looks different up close.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.--Eph 2:13
Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2012, 11:07:49 PM
I think this is a function of getter closer and closer to him, or us, the children of God, being encouraged to move from stranger to servant to friend. He looks different up close.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
--Eph 2:13
:thumbsup:
Quote from: dedWhy would people turn their back on the Good News? Do they think it's TOO good so it must not be true,...
Even we think it's too good to be true...
10 And ye are
complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
--Col 2
"complete"G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach,
perfect, supply.
This says we are already made perfect in Christ, in whom we died and are resurrected.
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
--Col 2
Everything that came before is the shadow cast through the ages by this great and glorious body of Christ, which we are now. We in Christ are the ones that cast that shadow seen by the prophets of the Old Testament.
Hebrews 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."
Hebrews 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
--Col 2
1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
My wife says I'm a very emotional person but all it takes is for me to dwell on the love and mercy of God to bring tears to my eyes. My wife is an ET'er so she admits she has had to harden her heart about the (supposed)fate of her parents, family, and friends. Shouldn't that alone tell her something?
Maybe because she was "scared into" accepting Christ (fear of Hell) that she refuses to even consider "that which she has so feared will NOT come to pass."
I know what you mean. We are undone by the unmerited grace given to us through Christ Jesus.
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
--Eph 5
:thumbsup: :dsunny:
Quote from: thinktank on November 20, 2012, 10:50:43 PM
I think there are many aspects of Gods character, love is one aspect. In the old testament God is very power oriented and concerned with riches, authority, lands, titles, hes busy kicking ass and taking names. But in the new testament he reveals a more humble side, through Christ, but yet also an extremely demanding Christ, then through Paul he reveals Gods grace and mercyful ways by extending to the gentiles and allowing them to live a more casual Christian experience.
Yes, it seems so, but of course, it is the same God. In the OT, YHWH, when you plug in the very ancient pictographic meanings of the Hebrew letters, means "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail." YHWH is none other than Jesus. In the NT, YHWH saw things from OUR perspective, and we have such verses as "Jesus wept." Jesus walked a mile in our moccasins, so to speak, and He gained sympathy for us - so much so, that He offers salvation to all. :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 21, 2012, 05:59:30 PM
My wife says I'm a very emotional person but all it takes is for me to dwell on the love and mercy of God to bring tears to my eyes. My wife is an ET'er so she admits she has had to harden her heart about the (supposed)fate of her parents, family, and friends. Shouldn't that alone tell her something?
Maybe because she was "scared into" accepting Christ (fear of Hell) that she refuses to even consider "that which she has so feared will NOT come to pass."
Jeff, if fear of ET causes you to harden your heart, how then are you to become like a little child, a condition critical (according to Jesus) for entering the Kingdom of Heaven???
I was meaning that she psychologically can't handle the truth of what ET says. She says if everybody (she doesn't understand UR and la-la-las when I try to explain) is going to heaven no matter what then there is no reason to "be good". My reply is that "if Christ is in you, you won't want to do stuff that is contrary to the nature of God. The love of God would constrain you" but she said good for you and me but you know other people would go nuts and run riot if they thought they would go to heaven no matter what.
I said frankly they do that now anyway. People sin as much as they feel they can safely get away with without getting arrested. People might break the speed limit? They might commit adultery? People DON"T do things now not over fear of hell but fear of getting caught and/or prosecuted.
A person never says "I was going to kill that person but then I remembered... it was wrong. So I didn't.
Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2012, 11:07:49 PM
Quote from: thinktank on November 20, 2012, 10:50:43 PM
I think there are many aspects of Gods character, love is one aspect. In the old testament God is very power oriented and concerned with riches, authority, lands, titles, hes busy kicking ass and taking names. But in the new testament he reveals a more humble side, through Christ, but yet also an extremely demanding Christ, then through Paul he revealto live a more s Gods grace and mercyful ways by extending to the gentiles and allowing them casual Christian experience.
I think this is a function of getter closer and closer to him, or us, the children of God, being encouraged to move from stranger to servant to friend. He looks different up close.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
--Eph 2:13
Yeah Its interesting that it seems God adjust Himself to the people as well. E.g old testament people concerned with authority, rules, kings, family legacy, power etc and God reveals Himself in this way. In the new testament the Jews Pharisses are very rule oriented and demanding and Christ comes along demanding much sacrifice and obedience to the rules. Then the gentile age comes along and becomes more gentle, as Paul gives them less rules to follow and to love the liberty enjoyed in Christ.
This thinking for me makes it easier to understand God. That God is not created in our image, but we in His. So we might only see the power oriented God of he old testament as being cruel, yet God is not made in our image and there are people who truly get/understand the power, patriarchal ways of the old testament of conquering and of legacy.
" if fear of ET causes you to harden your heart, how then are you to become like a little child, a condition critical (according to Jesus) for entering the Kingdom of Heaven???"
We're made right before God [righteous, legally] by faith and trust in Jesus as Savior and His work on the cross. IMO, becoming as a little child means being able to simply accept and believe that, when drawn by the Holy Spirit - rather than attempt to justify oneself through "mature" logical thinking/worldly reasoning, etc. Many people - in fact, most of Christendom down through the ages - believed ET was part of God's plan. But they still had the simple faith of a child in Him as their Savior. :2c:
Quote from: thinktank on November 20, 2012, 10:50:43 PM
Yeah Its interesting that it seems God adjust Himself to the people as well. E.g old testament people concerned with authority, rules, kings, family legacy, power etc and God reveals Himself in this way. In the new testament the Jews Pharisses are very rule oriented and demanding and Christ comes along demanding much sacrifice and obedience to the rules. Then the gentile age comes along and becomes more gentle, as Paul gives them less rules to follow and to love the liberty enjoyed in Christ.
This thinking for me makes it easier to understand God. That God is not created in our image, but we in His. So we might only see the power oriented God of he old testament as being cruel, yet God is not made in our image and there are people who truly get/understand the power, patriarchal ways of the old testament of conquering and of legacy.
I like that a lot tank. Well done.
I like
How about a little child would come to God because they are terrified of the hell the preacher described? :laughing7:
:Chinscratch:
I'd bet that happens.. :eyebrow:
Then we'd get into the whole "what can God use, could their faith be "real", etc.". That could kind of set us up as the judge, because only God knows the heart. My ignorant guess? In some cases He really had given them faith to believe, and in others, maybe not - it was strictly a fear response. Gee, it can get complicated. Good thing God knows what He's doing.
That's a nice thing about UR. As it should be, everyone's experience with God is personal. God knows their heart and the person thinks they know their own heart. We cannot possibly know anothers heart completely... and who knows what plans God has for some people before they die. 43 years of being a christian and it seems like God pokes me ervery once in a while and says, "tell me who you least expect to come to me in this life and I'll bring them to me, just to prove I AM God."
I spent thanksgiving with some old friends from my evangelical ET days. We have gotten together before and it usually ends in an argument. This time I tried to smile and relax--i don't have to convince them of UR. That is God's job. I wish I could say I handled myself well, but I didn't. I got frustrated and said why is it so hard to believe that Jesus really is the Savior of the world like He says He is? The room went quiet and that was the end of the conversation. I am like a bull in a china shop. :doh:
A bull in a china shop :laugh: totally been there Deena!!! It can be extremely difficult, especially when others are basically calling you a heretic. God, being Who He is, may use our "bull" instances to one day confirm the truth to them when they are open and ready to hear it. :HeartThrob:
I know the frustration Deena. Though my ET wife and I have made ET/UR undiscussable (we agree on all other doctrine) I am actually more uncomfortable around church friends than my other (don't believe yet) friends.
I know the hellfire preachers like to say the world is divided up into believers against non-believers (the filthy pagan heathen) I like to think of us all as being believers, just some are and some will be, it's all a matter of time which means nothing to the creator of time.
Every one you come in contact with is either already family or will be soon(time again)
When a daughter or son is getting married, do you treat the fiance as family or do you say, "they are not "officially" part of my family so I'm sure not going to treat them as if they are.
I guess the way some "family" thanksgivings go, that might be a good thing. :laughing7:
Why do we sometimes treat total strangers better than we do our own family?
You know, I don't believe I have ever heard an ET'r explain just what they think hell is for.
What is the purpose of hell? If it is a punishment for sins then, is it a punishment for the sins that Jesus died for? If Jesus death paid for all sins, wasn't that payment a past, present, and future payment? What is left to go to hell for?
If to suffer in hell for all eternity/age is a payment for sins, what did Jesus die for? Which sins did he die for, if any?
Also, if suffering in hell is a payment for sins and Jesus death didn't pay for them totally, wouldn't that mean ALL would go to hell because how would we know what sins were covered and what were not?
If all of this is true, then the debt for hell has not been paid for a single person. In order for the payment of hell to be paid for all, wouldn't Jesus have to burn in hell forever?
CHB
Exactly right CHB :iagree:
Believe it or not, to 'escape" the dilemna you've proposed ET preachers
and writers have an answer. Of course, it's not a biblical scriptural answer.
They say:
Jesus' death paid for ALL sins - of the person that "accepts" him as Lord in their life.
and some even question the ALL sins (past present future) narrowing
it down to all the sins one has asked forgiveness for.
The first time a guy told me that only sins that we asked forgiveness for were forgiven, I said:
"Well why don't you and I pray right now and ask Jesus to forgive
us of all sins, past, present, future, known and unknown, of thought word and deed,
of omission and commission?"
He refused! He said that asking for forgiveness had to be of a contrite heart.
I asked him if he didn't feel sorrow over the sins he might commit in the future.
Why do people get angry when confronted with logic/scripture?
Yes, they completely misunderstand these verses.
(Rom. 5:8-10) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while WE WERE YET SINNERS, CHRIST DIED FOR US.
Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, WE SHALL BE SAVED FROM WRATH THROUGH HIM.
For if, when we were enemies, we WERE RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
CHRIST died for me while I was a sinner. I am justified by HIS blood. I am saved through HIM. I am reconciled by CHRIST death. I am saved by HIS life.
It is all about HIM. HE did it all. Christ is glorified because of what HE did for me.
CHB
In my "Rocky" voice - Absolutely :laughing7:
Well said CHB. I am so relieved that my salvation and redemption was accomplished by Him, for I surely would have screwed it up somehow. Trying to save myself is terrifying.
Deena, me too.
Sometimes, I have thought, what if I am responsible for my own salvation and a sick feeling would churn in my stomach. I am so happy to know that it is all in his hands.
CHB