Good Question - Adam, Sins, Humans, Jesus

[DeeDee]

I have a question that might sound odd lol. We are all sinners because of Adam and Eve and the original sin right? And we are all born of sin because our parents uhm "make" us - sinful- but we are also born of sin because of Adam. If Jesus is also an Adam descendant how come he was free of sin?

[WhiteWings]

Mary didn't get pregnant the usual way...

[martincisneros]

Jesus was born of a virgin.  Sin is passed down through the blood line.  Acts 20 says it was the Blood of God in Jesus.  God as a Spirit wouldn't have to literally have veins to create new Blood.  As I said in another thread, I'm pressed for time, or would possibly/probably have more to say, but hopefully later.  Remind me if I don't say more for a couple of days.

[Molly]

Jesus was born of a virgin.  Sin is passed down through the blood line.  Acts 20 says it was the Blood of God in Jesus.  God as a Spirit wouldn't have to literally have veins to create new Blood.  As I said in another thread, I'm pressed for time, or would possibly/probably have more to say, but hopefully later.  Remind me if I don't say more for a couple of days.

28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

--Acts 20

[Tony N]

I have a question that might sound odd lol. We are all sinners because of Adam and Eve and the original sin right? And we are all born of sin because our parents uhm "make" us - sinful- but we are also born of sin because of Adam. If Jesus is also an Adam descendant how come he was free of sin?

DeeDee your questions never sound odd.

Romans 5:12 says that due to what Adam did death passed through into all mankind and due to this death operating in us we all sin.

Christ is the exception. Jesus is a decendent of Adam through Mary by birth. He is a decendent of Adam through Joseph only as to law. Death was not passed through into Him because I think the death gene is passed through the male. Jesus' Father was God but mother of course was human.

Jesus only died when He willed it to be so on the cross.

[SeekerSA]

While I do not subscribe to the original sin and have certain reservations concerning the virgin birth, I do believe that the most profound part of Jesus' life were His teachings.  That said I will not postulate but explain and ask this.

Even if Mary was supernaturally impregnated, Jesus would still be 50% Adamic, the genetic hand-me-down is not a proven fact but merely an assertion/supposition, in fact some Jews claim a matriarch bloodline but that is beside the point.

The RCC realised this and then venerated Mary too but that still would make Jesus 25% Adamic.

The without sin IMO relates to that Jesus was not sin focused.  I can accept He led an exemplary life but the bible records essentially on 3.5 years of His life.

The most important bits were those 3.5 years and not so much His birth or death however brutal. And of course His resurrection wherein lies our hope.

Blessings

[Craig]

I was thinking, this is just for thinking purposes...what if Jesus's authority came through his actions and his demeanor?

What I mean is, He took the time to talk to the sinners, and tend to the sick; the things those others who followed 'God' did not do but had nothing to do with. Jesus began to get a large reputation of a very respectable person with the power of the people and crowds followed him everywhere.

So when Jesus spoke of sin and forgave, he was always sincere and did not hold anyone's sin against them. The sinner became so convicted of their sin, that when Jesus forgave them, they did not want to continue in a that way and began to follow Jesus.

When Jesus went out and casting out demons, and others in His Name, people had so much trust and understanding of the character of Jesus that they indeed let their demons out and they believed they were so free and healed from that which kept them back, that they were free and healed of what held them back!

And this all is God, not some omnipotent Being, but an omnipotent ideology which has so much power over all things that we call it God.

I am just laying down some thoughts

[Tony N]

While I do not subscribe to the original sin

Seeker, just some thoughts from the peanut gallery:
"He Who knew no sin became sin . . . " i.e. "became sin"= became a sin offering.
He was also the spotless lamb.
No one could convict Him of sin.
He was life.
One who is dying cannot be life.

[SeekerSA]

While I do not subscribe to the original sin

Seeker, just some thoughts from the peanut gallery:
"He Who knew no sin became sin . . . " i.e. "became sin"= became a sin offering.
He was also the spotless lamb.
No one could convict Him of sin.
He was life.
One who is dying cannot be life.

Hi Tony

He who knew no sin.. can also be interpreted as I stated that He was not sin focused.  I know this goes against tradition but I am not a traditionalist.

We discussed this back on the did Jesus die to appease an angry God thread and I explained pretty fully there my views.

IMO if one views Jesus' death as a sin offering, it makes the Father's love conditional and IMO that was an explanation for the Jews.  I do not deny His healings and His ministry so I do not think there is a danger believing as I do.  But that said I have dissed things like a literal creation and flood myth too.  I guess I am more a NT guy as there are just too many contradictions in the OT and most of it does not fly well with what Jesus taught.


My views upset some folk so I will stop here.

[martincisneros]

IMO if one views Jesus' death as a sin offering, it makes the Father's love conditional and IMO that was an explanation for the Jews.

His being a sin offering doesn't make the Father's love conditional if there were evils within the equation of man that couldn't be addressed in any other way.  In that way, it would make the Cross of Christ the most loving thing God has ever done and perhaps the most loving thing He'll ever do by it's very definition if the life of man couldn't be made new without the sinless Blood of God.  I don't want to get into answering something that might occur to you, SeekerSA, along those lines that would necessarily demand a wandering into Unitarianism/Trinitarianism/Arianism/Modalism/etc.  I'll simply say that the sacrifice was enough God to satisfy God since Scripture indicates that that's at what cost our redemption was accomplished.  As you know, St. Paul wrote to Timothy that Jesus is the ransom for all.

[jabcat]

I'll simply say that the sacrifice was enough God to satisfy God since Scripture indicates that that's at what cost our redemption was accomplished.  As you know, St. Paul wrote to Timothy that Jesus is the ransom for all.

28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. --Acts 20

Amen! ..."the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:8...the One toward whom all the sacrifices of the OT pointed.

[WhiteWings]

In Adams bloodline you find all kind of people. Some where real good in the eyes of God.
Ok sin could still be in the flesh of Jesus but perhaps that sin was just overpowered by good.
Just as we can resist a temptation Jesus could also. Personally I think even Satan becomes a saint if the HS starts to work full force in him. Add to that the devine impregnation.
What's exatly wrong at the bloodline of Adam? The flesh or the mind? The flesh of Jesus perhaps wasn't perfect but His spirit was (is) and that just didn't give the flesh any control.
:2c:

[DeeDee]

What's exatly wrong at the bloodline of Adam? The flesh or the mind?

Very good question. Maybe you should make a thread concerning this.

[Molly]

What's exatly wrong at the bloodline of Adam? The flesh or the mind? The flesh of Jesus perhaps wasn't perfect but His spirit was (is) and that just didn't give the flesh any control.
:2c:

Nothing is wrong with Adam's bloodline.  This is where everyone takes a wrong turn.  He is the first man indwelt by the Holy Spirit.   He is the first high priest.  He is a figure of the one to come.  He is the seed bearer.  He is the son of God.

The Bible takes great pains to direct our attention to the genealogy of Jesus which goes back directly to Adam.

Jesus took great pains to identify himself over and over again as the Son of Adam.

[Molly]

I'll simply say that the sacrifice was enough God to satisfy God since Scripture indicates that that's at what cost our redemption was accomplished.  As you know, St. Paul wrote to Timothy that Jesus is the ransom for all.

28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. --Acts 20

Amen! ..."the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:8...the One toward whom all the sacrifices of the OT pointed.

I wish someone would say Amen to the fact that the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is Adam...

[jabcat]

What do you mean?  I always understood it to be Jesus, unless you mean the "last Adam", which is still Yeshua?

[Molly]

What do you mean?  I always understood it to be Jesus, unless you mean the "second Adam"?

No I mean Adam--the mystery which has been hid from ages and from generations but is now made known to his saints--which is Christ in you, the hope of glory..

That started with Adam.

If you do this to one of my brethren, you do it to ME.

Paul, Paul, Why are you persecuting ME.


Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.  He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

--Gal 3