I'm frustrated.

[eaglesway]

I do not believe my desire to spread the Truth of God's Gospel of Victory is borne of "the fires of carnality in our own bosom."  Why do you refer to my desire to reach others with the true gospel, draw them away from ET, and begin a new UR fellowship and worship center in my area "the fires of carnality in our own bosom?"  I'm sure I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.

1Co 1:21  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
(1Co 2:1-5)

IMO, The core of a New Testament church is the three fold cord. I would pray that the Lord confirm this as His leading by granting you at least one or two mature disciples with a similar vision to become, with you, the seed of a local body of believers.

Whenever two or more of you gather in my name, there I am in the midst of you.

Meet, pray- wait upon the Lord for the Spirit to teach, lead, multiply, edify.

[CHB]

There is not that many of us who believe in the salvation of all but I believe that one day God will put a desire in our hearts to preach his Good News to the world. I just cannot see us continuing on the way we are until Christ returns. I don't know why but I keep thinking of us now as being like the Laodiceans. My  :2c:

CHB

[jbertonbounds]

My vision of a new fellowship of UR believers is certainly something I know I must pray over and be certain it is a calling of God and not simply my own idea.  I had an opportunity Saturday morning to share UR with a fellow believer (an ET'er).  He was intrigued, but replied that he must absorb it a little at a time.  I am planting seeds.

This is amazing because, a few years ago, I asked God to give me a place to build and plant.  My request was selfish because I was asking for land where I could gratify my love for horticulture and building construction.  I was asking the Father for a scorpion.  Well God granted my request.  No, I did not receive land.  He gave me an egg instead.  He gave me the truth of UR.  Even though I am still involved in an ET organization, I am planting seeds and building in the Kingdom.  I am much more fulfilled by God's grant than I would have been with land.  Blessed be the name of the Lord! :dsunny:

[sheila]

yes,Be a light if He grants...look!  Thick darkness covers the nations..but Arise nd shine!!! the glory of

the Lord rises on you!!!!!  and nations shall come to your light!!!!


  Psalms 11  In the Lord I take refuge.How then cn you say to me,'flee like  bird to your mountain!"

  For look! the wicked bend their bows;they set their aroows against the strings,to shoot from the

shadows the upright in heart.........

   WHEN THE FOUNDATIONS ARE BEING DESTROYED WHAT CN THE RIGHTEOUS DO?

   foundations are being destroyed in this world order right now[Psalms 82;5  they know nothing,they

understand nothing,they walk about in darkness;all the foundations of the earth are shaken]


   Psalms 2   Why do the nations conspire nd the people's plot in vain?    THE KINGS OF THE EARTH

  TAKE THEIR STAND AAND THE RULERS GATHER TOGATHER AGAINST THE LORD,AND HIS ANOINTED ONE

   LET US BREAK THEIR CHAINS THEY SAY[whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven] AND THROW

OFF THEIR FETTERS[when he who restrains is tken out of the way..and the man of sin is revealed]


    The One enthroned in Heaven laughs;the Lord scoffs t them. Then He rebukes them in His anger..

    and terrifies them in His wrth saying...I HAVE INSTALLED MY KING IN ZION,MY HOLY HILL

    I will proclaim the decree of the Lord,He said to me, 'You are my son,Today I have become your Father"


  ASK OF ME, AND I WILL MAKE THE NATIONS YOUR INHERITANCE,THE ENDS OF THE EARTH YOUR

POSSESION. YOU WILL RULE THEM WITH AN IRON SCEPTOR, YOU WILL DASH THEM TO PEICES LIKE

POTTERY.    THEREFORE YE KINGS BE WISE,BE WARNED YE RULERS OF THE EARTH.

  SERVE THE LORD WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.  KISS THE SON,LEST HE BE ANGRY,ND YE BE

DESTROYED IN YOUR WAY,FOR HIS WRATH CAN FLARE UP IN A MOMENT.  BLESSED ARE ALL

WHO TAKE REFUGE IN HIM>

   John 16;23  In that day,you will no longer ask me nything.I tell you the truth,my Father will give

you whatever you ask in my Name.Until now you have not asked for nything in my Name..

   ASK AND YOU WILL RECEIVE............Is it time for the Son's of God to ask for the ends of the earth to be

    your possession? The nations to be  your  inheritance?

   why should the Sons of God request the ends of the earth and the nations to be their inheritance?

  it is nothing more than requesting the prince of this world ,already judged as his works being wicked

to be removed......and for The Lord to begin His reign in the midst of His enemies

 
   The seventh trumpet....the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord,and of

His Christ!! and He will reign forever and ever!  We give thanks to you,O'Lord God Almighty,

the One who is and who was,because you have taken your great power and begun to reign

  THE NATIONS WERE ANGRY AND YOUR WRATH HAS COME

     

     

[sheila]

....the day's are coming,declares the Lord, 'when the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman,

   and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains,and flow from

  all the hills.   [Rev 14 and they sang  new song before the throne and the four living creatures

nd the elders...They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb

no lie was found in their mouths..they are blameless]

[eaglesway]

Glory!

[reFORMer]

So many people who believe in the "gospel of fear" (ET) and so few who see the light of the true Gospel of Victory (UR).  I know there are so many who would love to be out from under the bondage of the "gospel of fear," but they, like me at one time, don't know there is freedom from ET in the scriptures.  I want to reach them, teach them, and I want to have fellowship and worship with them, yet I don't know how to find them in my area, nor how to start a new worship center for UR's.  I know God can do it, for it is certainly impossible with me.  I doubt there are any truth-gospel UR worship centers in my area.  I want to leave my ET Baptist church and start a new work, but???  It will be hard to leave those people I love :HeartThrob:, but I know it's not about me.  There is a great harvest waiting just outside my door.  But where do I start to form a new ministry centered on the Truth - right here in the Bible Belt, land of the narrow-minded. :dunno2:

Our frustration from an unfulfilled zeal to get others to agree with what we are sure is the truth may be a baby version of what caused Saul of Tarsus to arrest, torture and kill the disciples of Jesus.  How do we recognize and get free from the fires of carnality in our own bosom? 

We are justified (declared righteous) not by what God does in us; but, by what God has done in Christ.  That can never be undone.  We accept "the gift of God, not of ourselves," by faith in Him.  No inner evidence can ever be sufficient.  We are without proof other than Who it is that has spoken His Word to us.  We have from God an "imputed" righteousness.  We are "reckoned" righteous by God along with Abraham, by whom, "...the promise of God was not doubted in unbelief, but he was invigorated by faith, giving glory to God, being fully assured also, that, what He has promised, He is able to do also.  Wherefore, also, it is reckoned to him for righteousness." (Rm 4^20-22, Conc. Lit.)

That salvation is, "not of ourselves" is true regarding the salvation of others, as well as our own.  "Who believes has entered into rest."  Earnestly desiring His salvation, we are left by God to suffer these frustrations as unquenchable fire that burns until there is nothing burnable left. 

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ep 2^8-9, Conc. Lit.)

Our changing form is in the glory:  our glorifying Him, the fruit of our lips glorifying Him; and, His glorifying us, bringing us on into His ascension.

I do not believe my desire to spread the Truth of God's Gospel of Victory is borne of "the fires of carnality in our own bosom."  Why do you refer to my desire to reach others with the true gospel, draw them away from ET, and begin a new UR fellowship and worship center in my area "the fires of carnality in our own bosom?"  I'm sure I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.

I considered what you said in the OP to be similar to what I experience.  I suffer because of the apostasy of the church.  Errors of belief and traditions of how to meet are defended while the truth "lies trampled in the street."  I desire greatly to share with like minded brethren, to MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP and "to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace," with occasion to share that Jesus Who scripture calls, "Savior of All."

I also suffer because I'm not allowed to speak the truth I know (except in supermarket aisles, the post office or on the street, never authorized in the steeple houses or teaching and preaching venues of today) about resurrection, about every member functioning under the headship of Christ without other mediators, -- which is not to deny any ministry to anyone, only restoring the priesthood of all believers rather than being merely enabling audiences for some man's ministry -- also not to speak about the nearer time prophesied (the eschatology) as we enter the Millennial Age of Tabernacles and the manifestation of the sons of God, as well as the more distant prophecies (the teliology) concerning the ultimate disposition of all things.  I find it is like Jeremiah:

"...I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.
For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the LORD was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily.
Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But [his word] was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not [stay].
For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, [say they], and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, [saying], Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him."

Jr 20^8-10, KJV

What I shared is what gives rest to me, part of the present answer to my frustrations and what I believe is God's comfort to this tormented soul.  "Salvation is of the LORD!!!"

[lomarah]

Glory!

Amen and hallelujah!!!!

[jbertonbounds]

Pray about it, ask God what he wants you to do with your faith in UR, and remember as liberating as the belief of UR is, we must pick up our cross and be a Christ-like example to others, this is our first priority, to love others as our Heavenly Father does. Once we do this, God will work and use you for his will, whatever it may be, rest assured that it is a part of something glorious  :dsunny:

It seems that it is no coincidence that when we come out/away, from ET, to believe that God opened our eyes for the purpose of us to open others eyes. I am still struggling with this myself but it has become clear to me that I need to follow the example of Christ. Christ did not come here to open every ones eyes, only a small group of disciples and a few others. In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet.
1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

These are two great posts!  Thanks MsZoo and Fitter.

Quote: "In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet. "  True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready.

[mplsfitter539]

This thread has taken a wonderful path with some ebbs and flow but over all it has remained positive material for future reference. Well done fellow seekers of the truth!! :banana:

[jbertonbounds]

This thread has been so encouraging and helpful!

[anna274]

Pray about it, ask God what he wants you to do with your faith in UR, and remember as liberating as the belief of UR is, we must pick up our cross and be a Christ-like example to others, this is our first priority, to love others as our Heavenly Father does. Once we do this, God will work and use you for his will, whatever it may be, rest assured that it is a part of something glorious  :dsunny:

It seems that it is no coincidence that when we come out/away, from ET, to believe that God opened our eyes for the purpose of us to open others eyes. I am still struggling with this myself but it has become clear to me that I need to follow the example of Christ. Christ did not come here to open every ones eyes, only a small group of disciples and a few others. In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet.
1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

These are two great posts!  Thanks MsZoo and Fitter.

Quote: "In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet. "  True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready.

Yes, thanks to all three posters for such encouraging, challenging words;   I have just one thing to add to JBB's  "True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready." and/or that we are ready (Col 4:5-6) for the "readied" ones when God leads them to us.

In my walks in the halls here at Maple Terrace (senior housing complex) I often encounter other tenants...and sometimes in these very casual, unexpected conversations, I am able to discuss God's Glorious Plan to bring all to be with Him for all eternity.  Just recently, one of our new tenants told me that our conversations about the Scriptures (she knows the scriptures, but told me she was not a believer) are causing her to rethink ... that Jesus is more than just a fictional character...  she's really balked down with much scientific information... when she asked me what do I do with scientific discoveries... I interrupted her and said If the scientifc discoveries are valid, they make me say  O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have...   I avoid debating on any level... scientific, religious, political...  oh my this is much longer than I had planned...

[jbertonbounds]

Yes, thanks to all three posters for such encouraging, challenging words;   I have just one thing to add to JBB's  "True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready." and/or that we are ready (Col 4:5-6) for the "readied" ones when God leads them to us.

In my walks in the halls here at Maple Terrace (senior housing complex) I often encounter other tenants...and sometimes in these very casual, unexpected conversations, I am able to discuss God's Glorious Plan to bring all to be with Him for all eternity.  Just recently, one of our new tenants told me that our conversations about the Scriptures (she knows the scriptures, but told me she was not a believer) are causing her to rethink ... that Jesus is more than just a fictional character...  she's really balked down with much scientific information... when she asked me what do I do with scientific discoveries... I interrupted her and said If the scientifc discoveries are valid, they make me say  O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have...   I avoid debating on any level... scientific, religious, political...  oh my this is much longer than I had planned...

Yes, Anna, we do need to pray that we are ready too share also.  And I love your response to the questions about scientific discoveries: "they make me say  O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have."  That is awesome.  I often tell folks that the scientific discoveries don't contradict God's word, they show his glory all the more!

[Andy]

Due to popular request, here is the link to a thought provoking book, "SO you don't want to go to church anymore"

http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf

Thank-you very much for that link.

I've been down for a while.  I sure needed to read and be reminded of how much our Father loves me.

I can't tell you how much I needed to read that.

[reFORMer]

In my walks in the halls here at Maple Terrace (senior housing complex) I often encounter other tenants...and sometimes in these very casual, unexpected conversations, I am able to discuss God's Glorious Plan to bring all to be with Him for all eternity.  Just recently, one of our new tenants told me that our conversations about the Scriptures (she knows the scriptures, but told me she was not a believer) are causing her to rethink ... that Jesus is more than just a fictional character...  she's really balked down with much scientific information... when she asked me what do I do with scientific discoveries... I interrupted her and said If the scientifc discoveries are valid, they make me say  O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have...   I avoid debating on any level... scientific, religious, political...  oh my this is much longer than I had planned...

I have a friend, a Jewish Christian (that I've mentioned here before,) who was a researcher at IBM.  He has earned doctorates in physics and electrical engineering.  He wrote computer code for the 2nd and 3rd Mars rovers and something about the human machine interface on the B-52's in Iraq during the gulf war.  Whatever...I just tell this to help explain who I'm talking about and to communicate that he's real.  We have some great talks but, due to my limited math skills he considers I basically can't understand so very much. 

God has shown up between us, even though we've never met in the flesh.  We've had some deliverances from evil, and healings.  One occasion we both saw a light appear in the darkness.  I saw a sorta pin-prick of light, a grain of mustard seed out from the heavens into here.  We both felt something lift.  The weight was lifted off of our experience of the whole universe.  A powerful peace breathed into our world.  He was healed of something you just don't get over, humanly speaking.  The word of knowledge given to me was that this happened because God was delighted with our fellowship.

"The salvation of all" in my friends mind makes a lot fall into place.  The Bible makes more sense and the God of the Bible is believable. He's not just a evil ogre in a fairy tale.  This wideness of salvation, God redeeming all His creation, appeals to thoughtful people.  Those who have cement brains have to wait.

One simple point I like to make with the more scientifically minded is that there is something rather than nothing at all.  It is what causes everything to be manifesting right now?  Not so much what made this something emerge into the nothingness, not what started it all off; but, what right now is behind the world of appearances.  Why, right now, is there something rather than nothing at all?

[mplsfitter539]

I am 50 years old and live in my parents house. My parents are good people who tried to do the best they could. My life was very successful at first but then it all fell apart and I moved back home with my parents. After much "revelation" I am convinced of UR and have a burning desire to share it with someone else. God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:

[jbertonbounds]

God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:

Are you Sure?

[mplsfitter539]

God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:

Are you Sure?

Funny you should ask if I am sure. I ask myself that question everyday. Every day and every moment I ask God what I should say or do and its always the same old answer (I think you know what it is). We are here in this room together right now. You cannot walk out on some street somewhere and just find another one of us because we are so far and few in between. Trust me on this many of us have found each other right here. I am honored and humbled both to be here.

[jbertonbounds]

Yep, this place has been a huge blessing to me.  I'm glad you ask yourself that question everyday.  That is what we should do - question ourselves, measure and check ourselves by God's standards daily.  If we are looking to God for guidance, then he will make sure we have what we need when we need it, and that is especially true of guidance. :thumbsup:

[rosered]

God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:

Are you Sure?

Funny you should ask if I am sure. I ask myself that question everyday. Every day and every moment I ask God what I should say or do and its always the same old answer (I think you know what it is). We are here in this room together right now. You cannot walk out on some street somewhere and just find another one of us because we are so far and few in between. Trust me on this many of us have found each other right here. I am honored and humbled both to be here.

well said !! :thumbsup:
To this I believe we can all relate  :winkgrin:  blessings from on High

[rosered]

Yep, this place has been a huge blessing to me.  I'm glad you ask yourself that question everyday.  That is what we should do - question ourselves, measure and check ourselves by God's standards daily.  If we are looking to God for guidance, then he will make sure we have what we need when we need it, and that is especially true of guidance. :thumbsup:

  I so believe this is true Bro Jberton !! 
How can we not Love a God who is so merciful and gracious to us ? 
Humbling  indeed  :HeartThrob:

[mplsfitter539]

Rosered how fitting of you to use the word humility in this thread. I found a parallel between this thread and another in which you used the word chastise. There is a very strong connection between humility and chastisement. I like the way this is headed.  :banana:

[jbertonbounds]

 :thumbsup:

[Ken]

Hello jbertonbounds,

There is only one online ekklesia (not to be confused with the word "church", which has an entirely different meaning) that believes in UR:

http://ernestlmartin.com

God has seen fit to scatter those who believe in UR. Online is the only way we can communicate with one another at this time.

Thanks for the question.

Ken

[eaglesway]

Hello jbertonbounds,

There is only one online ekklesia (not to be confused with the word "church", which has an entirely different meaning) that believes in UR:

http://ernestlmartin.com

God has seen fit to scatter those who believe in UR. Online is the only way we can communicate with one another at this time.

Thanks for the question.

Ken

As I read it in Ephesians 1:22,23 and 4:4-6 is only one ekklesia period, as well other places like 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 and Colossians 2:18,19.

I always get a little wary when someone claims to be "the only" place or entity or representation of the "ekklesia". I hope that is not what you are saying, but it sounds a bit like you think that the site you are promoting is "the only" such representation of the part of the "ekklesia" that teaches/believes in UR. If that is not the case- could you clarify?

If it is the case, I would definitely disagree.