So many people who believe in the "gospel of fear" (ET) and so few who see the light of the true Gospel of Victory (UR). I know there are so many who would love to be out from under the bondage of the "gospel of fear," but they, like me at one time, don't know there is freedom from ET in the scriptures. I want to reach them, teach them, and I want to have fellowship and worship with them, yet I don't know how to find them in my area, nor how to start a new worship center for UR's. I know God can do it, for it is certainly impossible with me. I doubt there are any truth-gospel UR worship centers in my area. I want to leave my ET Baptist church and start a new work, but??? It will be hard to leave those people I love :HeartThrob:, but I know it's not about me. There is a great harvest waiting just outside my door. But where do I start to form a new ministry centered on the Truth - right here in the Bible Belt, land of the narrow-minded. :dunno2:
I know how you feel, but it is right to start a universal salvation centered church?
I am pretty unsure :dunno2:
I am planning to go to the Salvation army, purely because I know they will accept me and my beliefs.
I have talked to a lot of people about UR, ranging from atheists, Christians and people of completely different faiths.
Most embrace the good news, especially the Christians that feel let down by God, and the Church.
What helps me is sharing first with the people close to me, then moving outwards slowly.
I have started a discussion group with my cousin, we open our home up every Monday and anyone can pop over for a chat about whatever they want. The subjects range from religion to politics.
There have been many talks on UR, and there are many, many people open to the good news, especially agnostics.
I have had my fair share of skepticism by my fellow Christians, they usually fluster up and refuse to look into it themselves, and that's ok too, it's all in the hands of God.
Pray about it, ask God what he wants you to do with your faith in UR, and remember as liberating as the belief of UR is, we must pick up our cross and be a Christ-like example to others, this is our first priority, to love others as our Heavenly Father does. Once we do this, God will work and use you for his will, whatever it may be, rest assured that it is a part of something glorious :dsunny:
Hi J
I think most of us have had this desire and frustration on coming out of ET. While I can't speak for all, I know I did. Like miss zoo I found the people entrenched in churchianity are the most resistant to this, whether out of fear or just strong indoctrination, while the other groups she mentioned are the most receptive. I asked God early on when I came out if I could teach this. Since then, he's pretty much shut my mouth and began to instruct me. Argh! Ded( the frustrated comedian) put up a link to a short book on another thread, "Spiritual Discipline", concerning someone else's struggle with this that really blessed me. And since I'm computer link illiterate you can go there to find it or maybe he'll see this and repost.
Blessings!
I reckon we're frustrated when we feel apart from God. And when we feel close to God, we don't feel frustrated. Do you reckon? Thank Ye for inspiration.
I've had ideas for years and have tried a number of them, but nothing seems to have panned out as yet, except that I hired a couple of young people in India to inform sick people about an alternative remedy good for major diseases. My idea was to ask them to start discussions among young people of many major religions to seek spiritual unity and world peace. So far they're rather slow at organizing, but they do seem to be doing something.
I also got an idea lately to ask family and friends to meet each Sunday before church to discuss making videos etc to share the gospel with young people online in all parts of the world and to promote Christian Unity. I discussed that with Mom, but she just wants to let the Lutheran Church do the work. I however greatly dislike organized religion and just want to do decentralized works.
Another idea I had is to invite people on a free dating website to meet to get acquainted at a local restaurant each weekend. After getting acquainted I wanted to find out who are interested in Christian Unity and sharing the gospel online etc.
Personally, I don't like the normal Christian speech which I think to outsiders just sounds like mumbo-jumbo. I'd rather speak the way people are used to speaking. I use Christian speech here somewhat, but not much otherwise.
By the way, I suspect that one reason I haven't gotten anywhere that I can tell hardly over the years is that I think God wants me to have one or more friends with whom to do this. Thank Ye for such friends.
not everyone is ready for the revelation...God has shown us early on and the rest in his time.Be careful and listen to the spirit where to share the pearls.
blessings.... and I know its hard to keep the good news to yourself...I was asked to leave a baptist church by the pastor after only months only now do I sense an awakening after nearly three years
All in God's time
Due to popular request, here is the link to a thought provoking book, "SO you don't want to go to church anymore"
http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf (http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf)
Thanks everybody. I am praying about it, and planting seeds. I figure if I get kicked out of church, well, then I know I'm in good company - Jesus himself was kicked out of church. ET is a fear trap. They are scared to embrace any doctrine besides their own because they are so in bondage to the fear of hell - and well they should be if they really believe in hell! It's such a horrible concept. I remember countless times I used to be ceased with fear of hell, lying awake at nights in shear terror, wondering if I was going to make it to heaven, or burn in hell eternally :eek:. It truly was bondage. Now the Truth has set me free. Please pray :Pray: for me that God give me direction and a spirit of boldness to shout it from the mountaintop (as soon as He leads me to the mountain). May God bless you all.
Quote from: misszoolander on March 05, 2013, 01:24:55 AM
Pray about it, ask God what he wants you to do with your faith in UR, and remember as liberating as the belief of UR is, we must pick up our cross and be a Christ-like example to others, this is our first priority, to love others as our Heavenly Father does. Once we do this, God will work and use you for his will, whatever it may be, rest assured that it is a part of something glorious :dsunny:
It seems that it is no coincidence that when we come out/away, from ET, to believe that God opened our eyes for the purpose of us to open others eyes. I am still struggling with this myself but it has become clear to me that I need to follow the example of Christ. Christ did not come here to open every ones eyes, only a small group of disciples and a few others. In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet.
1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Dang, I wish there was a "LIKE" button!
You mean like this? :thumbsup:
Quote... God give me direction and a spirit of boldness to shout it from the mountaintop (as soon as He leads me to the mountain)
Thank Ye for Giving JB and we other ready souls direction to find the mountaintops and a spirit of boldness to shout the gospel lovingly to hearers nearby.
Just finished the book from the link ded2daworld posted (Jacobson & Colsen). Excellent. Gets right down to where the rubber meets the road, and very profound, yet stated so simply. Highly recommended. Thanks ded. I actually ordered a few paperbacks to give to a few friends. :thumbsup:
I believe in boldly proclaiming the victorious gospel of Jesus Christ. I also believe in walking in the spirit and being led by the Spirit.
Good news.
My gospel is that Jesus Christ died for the restoration of the entire creation, every on in heaven, on earth and under the earth has been reconciled by the shedding of His blood- and raised from the dead because of His resurrection.
But each in his own order :o) An administration suitable to the fulness(completion) of times, the gathering together of all things in one in Christ.
If anyone has not believed our gospel it is because the God of this world has blinded their eyes so that they cannot see the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: eaglesway on April 14, 2013, 08:15:41 AM
If anyone has not believed our gospel it is because the God of this world has blinded their eyes so that they cannot see the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
I agree. Paul was a good example. Without God opening his eyes, I don't believe he would have
'changed the road he was on.'
I agree Paul is a perfect example of being drawn (dragged) by the Father.
John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. :banana:
Absolutely! Paul is, by his own testimony, the perfect example, because he murdered the saints and was chief among the adversaries of the gospel- so God chose him and called him and poured out grace upon him to exemplify the glory of his plan to save ALL. Holy Smokes! Thats glorious!
Is 6:1 "I saw the Lord and He was high and lifted up and His train FILLED THE TEMPLE"
John 12:32 "If I am "LIFTED UP" from the earth I will DRAW EVERYONE(pas/all) UNTO ME"
Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might FILL ALL THINGS.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
"For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
Quote from: eaglesway on April 14, 2013, 07:02:02 PM
Absolutely! Paul is, by his own testimony, the perfect example, because he murdered the saints and was chief among the adversaries of the gospel- so God chose him and called him and poured out grace upon him to exemplify the glory of his plan to save ALL. Holy Smokes! Thats glorious!
Is 6:1 "I saw the Lord and He was high and lifted up and His train FILLED THE TEMPLE"
John 12:32 "If I am "LIFTED UP" from the earth I will DRAW EVERYONE(pas/all) UNTO ME"
Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might FILL ALL THINGS.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
"For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
Thats my gospel ;o)
Quote from: eaglesway on April 14, 2013, 07:02:02 PM
Absolutely! Paul is, by his own testimony, the perfect example, because he murdered the saints and was chief among the adversaries of the gospel- so God chose him and called him and poured out grace upon him to exemplify the glory of his plan to save ALL. Holy Smokes! Thats glorious!
Is 6:1 "I saw the Lord and He was high and lifted up and His train FILLED THE TEMPLE"
John 12:32 "If I am "LIFTED UP" from the earth I will DRAW EVERYONE(pas/all) UNTO ME"
Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might FILL ALL THINGS.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
"For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
I plan to to use this truly beautiful, profound, JOYFILLED, Scripturally sound post in a new thread that I am working on... THE JOY OF THE LORD IS OUR STRENGTH
and I will add it to the Quotable Quotes thread
as well as to the Spread the good news of joy to all men thread
Thank you so much for sharing "your" gospel with us...
I'm having an absolutely glorious time this morning as I found 27 verses in the Scriptures that have the words "joy of the Lord"... and then I decide to check TMForum and the first post I read was yours... again God's richest blessings.
May the Lord fill you with all Joy and Hope in believing :o)
O man! This planet is like there's a heavy, smothering, wet soggy quilt of lies hovering in the atmosphere over mankind! And of all the untruths, the ET (blasphemy) so many of the faithful are under, is the absolute worst one!! But - God is in full control.. It's aLL working to His Great Purpose.. We, the human race, and, the angels (messengers) are learning exactly what He wants and what it is His purpose we are to learn (and thus know beyond a doubt) for all ages and eternity.. written upon, indeed, likely will be deeply engraved, upon every heart, mind and psyche. :gsmile:
Our frustration from an unfulfilled zeal to get others to agree with what we are sure is the truth may be a baby version of what caused Saul of Tarsus to arrest, torture and kill the disciples of Jesus. How do we recognize and get free from the fires of carnality in our own bosom?
We are justified (declared righteous) not by what God does in us; but, by what God has done in Christ. That can never be undone. We accept "the gift of God, not of ourselves," by faith in Him. No inner evidence can ever be sufficient. We are without proof other than Who it is that has spoken His Word to us. We have from God an "imputed" righteousness. We are "reckoned" righteous by God along with Abraham, by whom, "...the promise of God was not doubted in unbelief, but he was invigorated by faith, giving glory to God, being fully assured also, that, what He has promised, He is able to do also. Wherefore, also, it is reckoned to him for righteousness." (Rm 420-22, Conc. Lit.)
That salvation is, "not of ourselves" is true regarding the salvation of others, as well as our own. "Who believes has entered into rest." Earnestly desiring His salvation, we are left by God to suffer these frustrations as unquenchable fire that burns until there is nothing burnable left.
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ep 28-9, Conc. Lit.)
Our changing form is in the glory: our glorifying Him, the fruit of our lips glorifying Him; and, His glorifying us, bringing us on into His ascension.
I do not believe my desire to spread the Truth of God's Gospel of Victory is borne of "the fires of carnality in our own bosom." Why do you refer to my desire to reach others with the true gospel, draw them away from ET, and begin a new UR fellowship and worship center in my area "the fires of carnality in our own bosom?" I'm sure I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 15, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
I do not believe my desire to spread the Truth of God's Gospel of Victory is borne of "the fires of carnality in our own bosom." Why do you refer to my desire to reach others with the true gospel, draw them away from ET, and begin a new UR fellowship and worship center in my area "the fires of carnality in our own bosom?" I'm sure I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.
Hi Jbertonbounds: It seems to me that reFORMer was just giving a general, but very serious caution, one that imo is worthy of consideration. I often think of what Paul did when he was given "the revelation of Jesus Christ" see Galatians 1:16-17. imo, this can be especially helpful when God lays on one's heart and mind a matter of such great import as your great desire to preach the good news, establish fellowships... be assured of my prayers as you continue to follow what you believe the Lord has given you to do.
Thanks so much, Anna!
JBB :thumbsup:
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 15, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
That's the trouble with forums.. facial expression, hearing.. it's all done by one sense instead of at least two.
The Word says to gather with other believers, but it's so difficult! I've gotten so I chalk it all up to "in the world you will have tribulation" and I no longer look for kindred folks where each encourage the fires and zeal of the Lord in the hearts of another. And where a flowing exchange of ideas can occur, where it concerns intent, and prophecy for the day, like putting pieces of a puzzle together. And also, I think people (all of us?) have been burnt in the past so fences are put up, and we can't really hear each other, not really.. or at least not often.. :Chinscratch: hmmm, maybe I'm getting to be a pessimist.. when actually, "with God all things are possible".. "Put on the full armor of the Lord" - If you want to build or gather a fellowship, rest assured, there shall be plenty of opposition. (And sometimes we'll think there's opposition but it's possibly only within. :dontknow: ) And of course that's where the value of fellowship comes in, not only to build each other up (encourage) but to pray for one another's going forths..
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 15, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
I do not believe my desire to spread the Truth of God's Gospel of Victory is borne of "the fires of carnality in our own bosom." Why do you refer to my desire to reach others with the true gospel, draw them away from ET, and begin a new UR fellowship and worship center in my area "the fires of carnality in our own bosom?" I'm sure I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
(1Co 2:1-5)
IMO, The core of a New Testament church is the three fold cord. I would pray that the Lord confirm this as His leading by granting you at least one or two mature disciples with a similar vision to become, with you, the seed of a local body of believers.
Whenever two or more of you gather in my name, there I am in the midst of you.
Meet, pray- wait upon the Lord for the Spirit to teach, lead, multiply, edify.
There is not that many of us who believe in the salvation of all but I believe that one day God will put a desire in our hearts to preach his Good News to the world. I just cannot see us continuing on the way we are until Christ returns. I don't know why but I keep thinking of us now as being like the Laodiceans. My :2c:
CHB
My vision of a new fellowship of UR believers is certainly something I know I must pray over and be certain it is a calling of God and not simply my own idea. I had an opportunity Saturday morning to share UR with a fellow believer (an ET'er). He was intrigued, but replied that he must absorb it a little at a time. I am planting seeds.
This is amazing because, a few years ago, I asked God to give me a place to build and plant. My request was selfish because I was asking for land where I could gratify my love for horticulture and building construction. I was asking the Father for a scorpion. Well God granted my request. No, I did not receive land. He gave me an egg instead. He gave me the truth of UR. Even though I am still involved in an ET organization, I am planting seeds and building in the Kingdom. I am much more fulfilled by God's grant than I would have been with land. Blessed be the name of the Lord! :dsunny:
yes,Be a light if He grants...look! Thick darkness covers the nations..but Arise nd shine!!! the glory of
the Lord rises on you!!!!! and nations shall come to your light!!!!
Psalms 11 In the Lord I take refuge.How then cn you say to me,'flee like bird to your mountain!"
For look! the wicked bend their bows;they set their aroows against the strings,to shoot from the
shadows the upright in heart.........
WHEN THE FOUNDATIONS ARE BEING DESTROYED WHAT CN THE RIGHTEOUS DO?
foundations are being destroyed in this world order right now[Psalms 82;5 they know nothing,they
understand nothing,they walk about in darkness;all the foundations of the earth are shaken]
Psalms 2 Why do the nations conspire nd the people's plot in vain? THE KINGS OF THE EARTH
TAKE THEIR STAND AAND THE RULERS GATHER TOGATHER AGAINST THE LORD,AND HIS ANOINTED ONE
LET US BREAK THEIR CHAINS THEY SAY[whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven] AND THROW
OFF THEIR FETTERS[when he who restrains is tken out of the way..and the man of sin is revealed]
The One enthroned in Heaven laughs;the Lord scoffs t them. Then He rebukes them in His anger..
and terrifies them in His wrth saying...I HAVE INSTALLED MY KING IN ZION,MY HOLY HILL
I will proclaim the decree of the Lord,He said to me, 'You are my son,Today I have become your Father"
ASK OF ME, AND I WILL MAKE THE NATIONS YOUR INHERITANCE,THE ENDS OF THE EARTH YOUR
POSSESION. YOU WILL RULE THEM WITH AN IRON SCEPTOR, YOU WILL DASH THEM TO PEICES LIKE
POTTERY. THEREFORE YE KINGS BE WISE,BE WARNED YE RULERS OF THE EARTH.
SERVE THE LORD WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. KISS THE SON,LEST HE BE ANGRY,ND YE BE
DESTROYED IN YOUR WAY,FOR HIS WRATH CAN FLARE UP IN A MOMENT. BLESSED ARE ALL
WHO TAKE REFUGE IN HIM>
John 16;23 In that day,you will no longer ask me nything.I tell you the truth,my Father will give
you whatever you ask in my Name.Until now you have not asked for nything in my Name..
ASK AND YOU WILL RECEIVE............Is it time for the Son's of God to ask for the ends of the earth to be
your possession? The nations to be your inheritance?
why should the Sons of God request the ends of the earth and the nations to be their inheritance?
it is nothing more than requesting the prince of this world ,already judged as his works being wicked
to be removed......and for The Lord to begin His reign in the midst of His enemies
The seventh trumpet....the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord,and of
His Christ!! and He will reign forever and ever! We give thanks to you,O'Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,because you have taken your great power and begun to reign
THE NATIONS WERE ANGRY AND YOUR WRATH HAS COME
....the day's are coming,declares the Lord, 'when the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman,
and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains,and flow from
all the hills. [Rev 14 and they sang new song before the throne and the four living creatures
nd the elders...They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb
no lie was found in their mouths..they are blameless]
Glory!
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 05, 2013, 12:55:13 AM
So many people who believe in the "gospel of fear" (ET) and so few who see the light of the true Gospel of Victory (UR). I know there are so many who would love to be out from under the bondage of the "gospel of fear," but they, like me at one time, don't know there is freedom from ET in the scriptures. I want to reach them, teach them, and I want to have fellowship and worship with them, yet I don't know how to find them in my area, nor how to start a new worship center for UR's. I know God can do it, for it is certainly impossible with me. I doubt there are any truth-gospel UR worship centers in my area. I want to leave my ET Baptist church and start a new work, but??? It will be hard to leave those people I love :HeartThrob:, but I know it's not about me. There is a great harvest waiting just outside my door. But where do I start to form a new ministry centered on the Truth - right here in the Bible Belt, land of the narrow-minded. :dunno2:
Quote from: reFORMer on April 15, 2013, 07:03:51 AM
Our frustration from an unfulfilled zeal to get others to agree with what we are sure is the truth may be a baby version of what caused Saul of Tarsus to arrest, torture and kill the disciples of Jesus. How do we recognize and get free from the fires of carnality in our own bosom?
We are justified (declared righteous) not by what God does in us; but, by what God has done in Christ. That can never be undone. We accept "the gift of God, not of ourselves," by faith in Him. No inner evidence can ever be sufficient. We are without proof other than Who it is that has spoken His Word to us. We have from God an "imputed" righteousness. We are "reckoned" righteous by God along with Abraham, by whom, "...the promise of God was not doubted in unbelief, but he was invigorated by faith, giving glory to God, being fully assured also, that, what He has promised, He is able to do also. Wherefore, also, it is reckoned to him for righteousness." (Rm 420-22, Conc. Lit.)
That salvation is, "not of ourselves" is true regarding the salvation of others, as well as our own. "Who believes has entered into rest." Earnestly desiring His salvation, we are left by God to suffer these frustrations as unquenchable fire that burns until there is nothing burnable left.
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ep 28-9, Conc. Lit.)
Our changing form is in the glory: our glorifying Him, the fruit of our lips glorifying Him; and, His glorifying us, bringing us on into His ascension.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 15, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
I do not believe my desire to spread the Truth of God's Gospel of Victory is borne of "the fires of carnality in our own bosom." Why do you refer to my desire to reach others with the true gospel, draw them away from ET, and begin a new UR fellowship and worship center in my area "the fires of carnality in our own bosom?" I'm sure I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.
I considered what you said in the OP to be similar to what I experience. I suffer because of the apostasy of the church. Errors of belief and traditions of how to meet are defended while the truth "lies trampled in the street." I desire greatly to share with like minded brethren, to MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP and "to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace," with occasion to share that Jesus Who scripture calls, "Savior of All."
I also suffer because I'm not allowed to speak the truth I know (except in supermarket aisles, the post office or on the street, never authorized in the steeple houses or teaching and preaching venues of today) about resurrection, about every member functioning under the headship of Christ without other mediators, -- which is not to deny any ministry to anyone, only restoring the priesthood of all believers rather than being merely enabling audiences for some man's ministry -- also not to speak about the nearer time prophesied (the eschatology) as we enter the Millennial Age of Tabernacles and the manifestation of the sons of God, as well as the more distant prophecies (the teliology) concerning the ultimate disposition of all things. I find it is like Jeremiah:
"...I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.
For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the LORD was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily.
Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But [his word] was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not [stay].
For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, [say they], and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, [saying], Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him."
Jr 20
8-10, KJV
What I shared is what gives rest to me, part of the present answer to my frustrations and what I believe is God's comfort to this tormented soul. "Salvation is of the LORD!!!"
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 05, 2013, 05:58:57 PM
Quote from: misszoolander on March 05, 2013, 01:24:55 AM
Pray about it, ask God what he wants you to do with your faith in UR, and remember as liberating as the belief of UR is, we must pick up our cross and be a Christ-like example to others, this is our first priority, to love others as our Heavenly Father does. Once we do this, God will work and use you for his will, whatever it may be, rest assured that it is a part of something glorious :dsunny:
It seems that it is no coincidence that when we come out/away, from ET, to believe that God opened our eyes for the purpose of us to open others eyes. I am still struggling with this myself but it has become clear to me that I need to follow the example of Christ. Christ did not come here to open every ones eyes, only a small group of disciples and a few others. In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet.
1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
These are two great posts! Thanks MsZoo and Fitter.
Quote: "In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet. " True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who
are ready.
This thread has taken a wonderful path with some ebbs and flow but over all it has remained positive material for future reference. Well done fellow seekers of the truth!! :banana:
This thread has been so encouraging and helpful!
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 16, 2013, 05:06:28 PM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 05, 2013, 05:58:57 PM
Quote from: misszoolander on March 05, 2013, 01:24:55 AM
Pray about it, ask God what he wants you to do with your faith in UR, and remember as liberating as the belief of UR is, we must pick up our cross and be a Christ-like example to others, this is our first priority, to love others as our Heavenly Father does. Once we do this, God will work and use you for his will, whatever it may be, rest assured that it is a part of something glorious :dsunny:
It seems that it is no coincidence that when we come out/away, from ET, to believe that God opened our eyes for the purpose of us to open others eyes. I am still struggling with this myself but it has become clear to me that I need to follow the example of Christ. Christ did not come here to open every ones eyes, only a small group of disciples and a few others. In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet.
1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
These are two great posts! Thanks MsZoo and Fitter.
Quote: "In the excitement of this new revelation to us we naturally want to share it but most people are not ready yet. " True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready.
Yes, thanks to all three posters for such encouraging, challenging words; I have just one thing to add to JBB's "True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready." and/or that we are ready (Col 4:5-6) for the "readied" ones when God leads them to us.
In my walks in the halls here at Maple Terrace (senior housing complex) I often encounter other tenants...and sometimes in these very casual, unexpected conversations, I am able to discuss God's Glorious Plan to bring all to be with Him for all eternity. Just recently, one of our new tenants told me that our conversations about the Scriptures (she knows the scriptures, but told me she was not a believer) are causing her to rethink ... that Jesus is more than just a fictional character... she's really balked down with much scientific information... when she asked me what do I do with scientific discoveries... I interrupted her and said If the scientifc discoveries are valid, they make me say O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have... I avoid debating on any level... scientific, religious, political... oh my this is much longer than I had planned...
Quote from: anna274 on April 16, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
Yes, thanks to all three posters for such encouraging, challenging words; I have just one thing to add to JBB's "True, but we can pray that God lead us to the ones who are ready." and/or that we are ready (Col 4:5-6) for the "readied" ones when God leads them to us.
In my walks in the halls here at Maple Terrace (senior housing complex) I often encounter other tenants...and sometimes in these very casual, unexpected conversations, I am able to discuss God's Glorious Plan to bring all to be with Him for all eternity. Just recently, one of our new tenants told me that our conversations about the Scriptures (she knows the scriptures, but told me she was not a believer) are causing her to rethink ... that Jesus is more than just a fictional character... she's really balked down with much scientific information... when she asked me what do I do with scientific discoveries... I interrupted her and said If the scientifc discoveries are valid, they make me say O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have... I avoid debating on any level... scientific, religious, political... oh my this is much longer than I had planned...
Yes, Anna, we do need to pray that we are ready too share also. And I love your response to the questions about scientific discoveries: "they make me say O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have." That is awesome. I often tell folks that the scientific discoveries don't contradict God's word, they show his glory all the more!
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 05, 2013, 05:08:13 AM
Due to popular request, here is the link to a thought provoking book, "SO you don't want to go to church anymore"
http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf (http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf)
Thank-you very much for that link.
I've been down for a while. I sure needed to read and be reminded of how much our Father loves me.
I can't tell you how much I needed to read that.
Quote from: anna274 on April 16, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
In my walks in the halls here at Maple Terrace (senior housing complex) I often encounter other tenants...and sometimes in these very casual, unexpected conversations, I am able to discuss God's Glorious Plan to bring all to be with Him for all eternity. Just recently, one of our new tenants told me that our conversations about the Scriptures (she knows the scriptures, but told me she was not a believer) are causing her to rethink ... that Jesus is more than just a fictional character... she's really balked down with much scientific information... when she asked me what do I do with scientific discoveries... I interrupted her and said If the scientifc discoveries are valid, they make me say O what a great, wonderful, powerful God we have... I avoid debating on any level... scientific, religious, political... oh my this is much longer than I had planned...
I have a friend, a Jewish Christian (that I've mentioned here before,) who was a researcher at IBM. He has earned doctorates in physics and electrical engineering. He wrote computer code for the 2nd and 3rd Mars rovers and something about the human machine interface on the B-52's in Iraq during the gulf war. Whatever...I just tell this to help explain who I'm talking about and to communicate that he's real. We have some great talks but, due to my limited math skills he considers I basically can't understand so very much.
God has shown up between us, even though we've never met in the flesh. We've had some deliverances from evil, and healings. One occasion we both saw a light appear in the darkness. I saw a sorta pin-prick of light, a grain of mustard seed out from the heavens into here. We both felt something lift. The weight was lifted off of our experience of the whole universe. A powerful peace breathed into our world. He was healed of something you just don't get over, humanly speaking. The word of knowledge given to me was that this happened because God was delighted with our fellowship.
"The salvation of all" in my friends mind makes a lot fall into place. The Bible makes more sense and the God of the Bible is believable. He's not just a evil ogre in a fairy tale. This wideness of salvation, God redeeming all His creation, appeals to thoughtful people. Those who have cement brains have to wait.
One simple point I like to make with the more scientifically minded is that there is something rather than nothing at all. It is what causes everything to be manifesting right now? Not so much what made this something emerge into the nothingness, not what started it all off; but, what right now is behind the world of appearances. Why, right now, is there something rather than nothing at all?
I am 50 years old and live in my parents house. My parents are good people who tried to do the best they could. My life was very successful at first but then it all fell apart and I moved back home with my parents. After much "revelation" I am convinced of UR and have a burning desire to share it with someone else. God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 17, 2013, 03:48:51 PM
God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:
Are you Sure?
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 17, 2013, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 17, 2013, 03:48:51 PM
God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:
Are you Sure?
Funny you should ask if I am sure. I ask myself that question everyday. Every day and every moment I ask God what I should say or do and its always the same old answer (I think you know what it is). We are here in this room together right now. You cannot walk out on some street somewhere and just find another one of us because we are so far and few in between. Trust me on this many of us have found each other right here. I am honored and humbled both to be here.
Yep, this place has been a huge blessing to me. I'm glad you ask yourself that question everyday. That is what we should do - question ourselves, measure and check ourselves by God's standards daily. If we are looking to God for guidance, then he will make sure we have what we need when we need it, and that is especially true of guidance. :thumbsup:
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 17, 2013, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 17, 2013, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 17, 2013, 03:48:51 PM
God keeps telling me to shut up and listen to other people and that I am not ready yet for the sharing encounters I so desperately crave. Hmmmm crave is an odd word. Crave is about the same thing as lust is if I am not mistaken. Lust seems to be at the core of most human motives. Until my lust level gets into check I am specifically being directed not to act on anything or say anything to anyone. Ermmmm except all of you here at Tentmaker :banana: :banana: :banana:
Are you Sure?
Funny you should ask if I am sure. I ask myself that question everyday. Every day and every moment I ask God what I should say or do and its always the same old answer (I think you know what it is). We are here in this room together right now. You cannot walk out on some street somewhere and just find another one of us because we are so far and few in between. Trust me on this many of us have found each other right here. I am honored and humbled both to be here.
well said !! :thumbsup:
To this I believe we can all relate :winkgrin: blessings from on High
Quote from: jbertonbounds on April 17, 2013, 06:30:47 PM
Yep, this place has been a huge blessing to me. I'm glad you ask yourself that question everyday. That is what we should do - question ourselves, measure and check ourselves by God's standards daily. If we are looking to God for guidance, then he will make sure we have what we need when we need it, and that is especially true of guidance. :thumbsup:
I so believe this is true Bro Jberton !!
How can we not Love a God who is so merciful and gracious to us ?
Humbling indeed :HeartThrob:
Rosered how fitting of you to use the word humility in this thread. I found a parallel between this thread and another in which you used the word chastise. There is a very strong connection between humility and chastisement. I like the way this is headed. :banana:
:thumbsup:
Hello jbertonbounds,
There is only one online ekklesia (not to be confused with the word "church", which has an entirely different meaning) that believes in UR:
http://ernestlmartin.com (http://ernestlmartin.com)
God has seen fit to scatter those who believe in UR. Online is the only way we can communicate with one another at this time.
Thanks for the question.
Ken
Quote from: Ken on May 02, 2013, 04:32:45 AM
Hello jbertonbounds,
There is only one online ekklesia (not to be confused with the word "church", which has an entirely different meaning) that believes in UR:
http://ernestlmartin.com (http://ernestlmartin.com)
God has seen fit to scatter those who believe in UR. Online is the only way we can communicate with one another at this time.
Thanks for the question.
Ken
As I read it in Ephesians 1:22,23 and 4:4-6 is only one ekklesia period, as well other places like 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 and Colossians 2:18,19.
I always get a little wary when someone claims to be "the only" place or entity or representation of the "ekklesia". I hope that is not what you are saying, but it sounds a bit like you think that the site you are promoting is "the only" such representation of the part of the "ekklesia" that teaches/believes in UR. If that is not the case- could you clarify?
If it is the case, I would definitely disagree.
I agree eaglesway, although I have read pretty much all of Dr. Martin's writings and agree with most of what he says, I don't think we should look to one man, or depend on one man for all of our knowledge. I have made this mistake before. When I hear, this is the only way, I back off, unless it is referring to Jesus.
CHB
Would someone please explain to me the difference between "ekklesia" and "church?"
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 02, 2013, 04:52:32 PM
Would someone please explain to me the difference between "ekklesia" and "church?"
The Greek word "ekklesia," is used 115 times in the New Testament, and in most bibles, it is always translated as "church" (except in Acts 19:32,39,41, where it is properly translated as "assembly"The "patristic writings" would be the Church fathers after the apostles and Christ. So that's where the word "church" popped up, and it's not in the Word of God, so obviously it's a creation of man.
The ekklesia is an assembly, group, or body but the Church is just a building.
CHB
So the word "church" did not occur in the original scripture texts? It was "ekklesia" all the time?
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 02, 2013, 06:10:18 PM
So the word "church" did not occur in the original scripture texts? It was "ekklesia" all the time?
Yes "church" is an English word that people who proclaim to be Christians use to describe all sorts of things other than "the called out ones".
Hello eaglesway,
Perhaps we are not talking about the same ekklesia? I am referring to an ekklesia as a designated group of like-minded people, as opposed to a church, which dominates its members through a heiarchy of "ministers". More information on this subject is available here:
http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ekklesia&sa=Google+Search (http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ekklesia&sa=Google+Search)
There are some groups that use the word ekklesia, but none seem to be online only. There are also churches that mistakenly use the word ekklesia. Either way, none seem to believe in universal reconciliation.
Now, if you do a Google search for "online ekklesias universal reconciliation", only one seems to come up:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ekklesias+universal+reconciliation+online&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#client=firefox-a&hs=iEJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&oq=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&gs_l=serp.12...8044.13037.1.14462.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1834.0j14.14.0...0.0...1c.1.12.serp.qckGvWayPX0&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.aWM&fp=a53dde7358203403&biw=1920&bih=953 (https://www.google.com/search?q=ekklesias+universal+reconciliation+online&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#client=firefox-a&hs=iEJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&oq=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&gs_l=serp.12...8044.13037.1.14462.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1834.0j14.14.0...0.0...1c.1.12.serp.qckGvWayPX0&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.aWM&fp=a53dde7358203403&biw=1920&bih=953)
Now, you could argue that all of those who believe in universal reconciliation are an ekklesia. But I would counter that it is not stated anywhere on the Tentmaker website or any others that I am aware of (that this is a specific ekklesia). And, more significantly, while most of those who participate here believe in UR, there are many other doctrinal understandings that many would probably disagree with.
The ASSOCIATES ONLINE has a stated lists of beliefs, so there should be no confusion as to where it stands: http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm) Anyone is free to start their own particular ekklesia (or, for that matter, church). The book of Revelation list seven specific ekklesias in existence at that time.
Thanks for asking.
Ken
Hello CHB,
Out of curiosity, where did you hear "this is the only way"?
Ken
Quote from: CHB on May 02, 2013, 04:23:36 PM
I agree eaglesway, although I have read pretty much all of Dr. Martin's writings and agree with most of what he says, I don't think we should look to one man, or depend on one man for all of our knowledge. I have made this mistake before. When I hear, this is the only way, I back off, unless it is referring to Jesus.
CHB
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on May 02, 2013, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 02, 2013, 06:10:18 PM
So the word "church" did not occur in the original scripture texts? It was "ekklesia" all the time?
Yes "church" is an English word that people who proclaim to be Christians use to describe all sorts of things other than "the called out ones".
ekklesia - called out ones. set aside for a purpose.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew2/D2-CirceDaughterOfTheSun.html&sa=U&ei=F7-CUc7SNoTKqAGe1oCQCg&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNECSLTjid9Rs0Gd5QhLcaa5OxDnoA
Quote from: CHB on May 02, 2013, 05:58:46 PM
The ekklesia is an assembly, group, or body but the Church is just a building.
CHB
:thumbsup:
I know you've referenced Dr. Martin several times in the past C, sharing some good info from him. It seems to me he has some helpful things to share, for sure. I believe many have have bits and pieces of the truth, with some seeming to have been given a little extra by God to share. Still, I believe as Gary says, we live in an age of a mixture of truth and error. I've never known anyone I thought had all the answers, but maybe part of that is that I also see through a glass darkly and don't have or know all the answers either. :Oops:
Anyway, all parts of the body have things to contribute, but I believe with everything, we must use discernment. :2c: God will eventually completely clear our eyes.
Quote from: jabcat on May 02, 2013, 11:56:38 PM
Quote from: CHB on May 02, 2013, 05:58:46 PM
The ekklesia is an assembly, group, or body but the Church is just a building.
CHB
:thumbsup:
I know you've referenced Dr. Martin several times in the past C, sharing some good info from him. It seems to me he has some helpful things to share, for sure. I believe many have have bits and pieces of the truth, with some seeming to have been given a little extra by God to share. Still, I believe as Gary says, we live in an age of a mixture of truth and error. I've never known anyone I thought had all the answers, but maybe part of that is that I also see through a glass darkly and don't have or know all the answers either. :Oops:
Anyway, all parts of the body have things to contribute, but I believe with everything, we must use discernment. :2c: God will eventually completely clear our eyes.
Anyone who claims to have all the answers is a liar.
They have become "wise and learned" and are thus blinded and foolish.
I do know some who
seem to think they have all the answers, but I cannot judge that.
Quote from: jabcat on May 02, 2013, 10:34:10 PM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on May 02, 2013, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 02, 2013, 06:10:18 PM
So the word "church" did not occur in the original scripture texts? It was "ekklesia" all the time?
Yes "church" is an English word that people who proclaim to be Christians use to describe all sorts of things other than "the called out ones".
ekklesia - called out ones. set aside for a purpose.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew2/D2-CirceDaughterOfTheSun.html&sa=U&ei=F7-CUc7SNoTKqAGe1oCQCg&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNECSLTjid9Rs0Gd5QhLcaa5OxDnoA
The 12 tribes of Israel are also referred to as the ekklesia in the New Testament.
This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel that spake to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living oracles to give unto us:--Acts 7:28
Quote from: Ken
There is only one online ekklesia (not to be confused with the word "church", which has an entirely different meaning) that believes in UR:
Ken, sounded like you were saying ASK is the only ekklesia on the internet? I think the ekklesia is all over the place not just on ASK? There are those who are called out that probably don't even have a computer and have never heard of ASK.
CHB
Quote from: jabcat on May 02, 2013, 11:56:38 PM
Quote from: CHB on May 02, 2013, 05:58:46 PM
The ekklesia is an assembly, group, or body but the Church is just a building.
CHB
:thumbsup:
I know you've referenced Dr. Martin several times in the past C, sharing some good info from him. It seems to me he has some helpful things to share, for sure. I believe many have have bits and pieces of the truth, with some seeming to have been given a little extra by God to share. Still, I believe as Gary says, we live in an age of a mixture of truth and error. I've never known anyone I thought had all the answers, but maybe part of that is that I also see through a glass darkly and don't have or know all the answers either. :Oops:
Anyway, all parts of the body have things to contribute, but I believe with everything, we must use discernment. :2c: God will eventually completely clear our eyes.
Amen, Jab. Dr. Martin has a lot of truth but he doesn't have it all, neither does anyone else.
CHB
Hello CHB,
I suppose we need to more clearly define just what kind of ekklesia we are talking about. The type of ekklesia I am talking about is one that is:
Specifically named.
Proclaimed to be an ekklesia.Clearly defines what the beliefs of that ekklesia are.For the record, ASK has never claimed to be an ekklesia. Not now or when Dr. Martin was alive.
The ASSOCIATES ONLINE (not connected with ASK), however, does make that proclamation.
Now, are there other ekklesias in existence? According to Google, there seem to be a few. None preach UR.
Are there any that are strictly online? According to Google, the ASSOCIATES ONLINE appears to be the only one. And, it believes in UR.
Ekklesias in the early times met in people's homes. Whether each one had a specific name for each home or not, I don't know. I would think they would have to have been named, but it could have been just a general geographic community name, too, as the ekklesias in Revelation are named.
In any event, we certainly don't claim to have all truth. We only claim to have an
attitude of growing in grace and knowledge. We have over 17,000 links to prove that, not including the many links on the ASK site.
Thanks for your comment.
Ken
Quote from: CHB on May 03, 2013, 02:09:45 AM
Quote from: Ken
There is only one online ekklesia (not to be confused with the word "church", which has an entirely different meaning) that believes in UR:
Ken, sounded like you were saying ASK is the only ekklesia on the internet? I think the ekklesia is all over the place not just on ASK? There are those who are called out that probably don't even have a computer and have never heard of ASK.
CHB
Ken you listed : Specifically named.
Proclaimed to be an ekklesia.
Clearly defines what the beliefs of that ekklesia are.
Is this list exclusive? Where did you find this for being the criteria of an ekklesia? I was not aware that there was an excepted definition including certain criteria for an ekklesia. The Associates Online is the only ekklesia which exists online as far as you know but what about called out ones that are not organized or not belonging to a named group of like believers?
Do you believe that an ekklesia could or does exist that is not organized into a named group or that has not proclaimed to be an ekklesia and does not have a statement of faith to publish to the masses?
I know this is quite a list of questions but I would appreciate your answers to them nevertheless.
Hello mplsfitter539,
You are raising some good questions. As far as I know, there are no specific "rules" mentioned in the Bible as to what constitutes an "ekklesia" (other than, "when two or more are gathered in My name..."). The short list I presented is of our own making.
Perhaps to understand the subject better we can temporarily (for the purpose of this discussion) revert back to the word "church", since most of us are more familiar with that term.
Now, the word "church" (when used by itself) is often quoted in Christian articles as being the overall body of Christian believers ("the Church has long taught that..."), those called out to understand the message of Christ. The word "church" in that context is referring to Christian believers in general.
But, as we know, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of groups calling themselves, "The Church of...". They are usually defining either a geographical and/or doctrinal disposition.
Then, you have many thousands of Christians who do not identify with any physical churches (probably most on this forum do not), but are still bound together in a particular, common doctrinal belief. Those who happen to believe in UR tend to congregate here on this forum (and that is a good thing). So, in a sense, you could say that this UR forum is, in effect, a church (or, ekklesia) of believers in UR. Probably there are many others who also believe in UR, too, who either do not know about this forum, or participate on another UR forum, or who participate in no forums. They also could be considered to be part of a greater,
undefined, UR church or ekklesia.
While those who believe in UR (no matter where they are in the world) might be considered to be part of an undefined ekklesia, I would venture to say that all of their
other doctrinal beliefs are probably all over the map. UR is the
only doctrine that is in common to the group. And there is much more to learn than just UR (as we have listed on our statement of beliefs).
What we have done is
named and
defined a group of worldwide believers, based on decades of biblical research. And, so there should be no confusion or discord, we have stated our beliefs in no uncertain terms. Now, that is not to say that we have perfect doctrinal beliefs or have the only perfect "truth". As we say in our byline, we are
"A Worldwide Ekklesia Dedicated to the Life Learning Process". This means we are always learning and are not afraid to change our beliefs as new truth comes our way.
What separates us from any other group is that we are constantly
looking for new truth - in all areas of life. Hence, our site, which not only has articles of its own, but has over 17,000 links to other researched websites and their many dozens of articles. It is a group for
those honestly searching for truth. Universal reconciliation is just a small (but important) part of that venture.
When you get a chance, check out our article on The Seven Levels of Spiritual Understanding:
http://ernestlmartin.com/index3.htm#religion (http://ernestlmartin.com/index3.htm#religion)In the end, we are all saved. What makes a difference is not what group we choose to align ourselves with (if any), but our
attitude. Because our attitude is what will determine whether we will be accepted into the
Kingdom of God:
http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm)Thanks for asking.
Ken
(http://ernestlmartin.com/images/kogpng.png)
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on May 03, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
Ken you listed : Specifically named.
Proclaimed to be an ekklesia.
Clearly defines what the beliefs of that ekklesia are.
Is this list exclusive? Where did you find this for being the criteria of an ekklesia? I was not aware that there was an excepted definition including certain criteria for an ekklesia. The Associates Online is the only ekklesia which exists online as far as you know but what about called out ones that are not organized or not belonging to a named group of like believers?
Do you believe that an ekklesia could or does exist that is not organized into a named group or that has not proclaimed to be an ekklesia and does not have a statement of faith to publish to the masses?
I know this is quite a list of questions but I would appreciate your answers to them nevertheless.
Quote from: Ken on May 02, 2013, 08:34:23 PM
Hello eaglesway,
Perhaps we are not talking about the same ekklesia? I am referring to an ekklesia as a designated group of like-minded people, as opposed to a church, which dominates its members through a heiarchy of "ministers". More information on this subject is available here:
http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ekklesia&sa=Google+Search (http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ekklesia&sa=Google+Search)
There are some groups that use the word ekklesia, but none seem to be online only. There are also churches that mistakenly use the word ekklesia. Either way, none seem to believe in universal reconciliation.
Now, if you do a Google search for "online ekklesias universal reconciliation", only one seems to come up:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ekklesias+universal+reconciliation+online&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#client=firefox-a&hs=iEJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&oq=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&gs_l=serp.12...8044.13037.1.14462.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1834.0j14.14.0...0.0...1c.1.12.serp.qckGvWayPX0&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.aWM&fp=a53dde7358203403&biw=1920&bih=953 (https://www.google.com/search?q=ekklesias+universal+reconciliation+online&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#client=firefox-a&hs=iEJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&oq=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&gs_l=serp.12...8044.13037.1.14462.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1834.0j14.14.0...0.0...1c.1.12.serp.qckGvWayPX0&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.aWM&fp=a53dde7358203403&biw=1920&bih=953)
Now, you could argue that all of those who believe in universal reconciliation are an ekklesia. But I would counter that it is not stated anywhere on the Tentmaker website or any others that I am aware of (that this is a specific ekklesia). And, more significantly, while most of those who participate here believe in UR, there are many other doctrinal understandings that many would probably disagree with.
The ASSOCIATES ONLINE has a stated lists of beliefs, so there should be no confusion as to where it stands: http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm) Anyone is free to start their own particular ekklesia (or, for that matter, church). The book of Revelation list seven specific ekklesias in existence at that time.
Thanks for asking.
Ken
Wherever two or more of you gather in my name(in me, in my presence) there I am in the midst of you.
IMO, This is the ekklesia. Whether it is online or in a home or in a high school gymansium or in a church building(being in a church building or synagogue does not exclude a group of people from being a part of the ekklesia of Christ or from being a local expression of that ekklesia). Jesus wrote some letters through John to seven ekklesias in Revelations, expressing various degrees of approval and disaproval of them. Calling a group of people a "church" does not exclude them from being the ekklesia or a valid local expression of it.
Anywhere"members gather" and share the union and communion of Jesus the "ekklesia" is manifest.
I still get nervous when anyone says they are "the only ekklesia" of anykind, anywhere and I persoally consider it unwise, and usually not true.
Maybe, the only ekklesia "declaring itself as the only UR ekklessia" would be more accurate :o)
Or maybe, the only "officiously declared" online UR ekklesia would be more accurate.
Hello eaglesway,
Please feel free to call it anything you want. It makes no difference to us. The point is that is a place for UR people to fellowship and, more importantly, continue on with the life learning process in an educational environment unlike anything else on the Internet.
What level would you say you are at?
http://ernestlmartin.com/index3.htm#religion
(http://ernestlmartin.com/index3.htm#religion)Like everything else, this is all a matter of attitude. :thumbsup:
Ken
Quote from: eaglesway on May 04, 2013, 01:37:41 AM
Quote from: Ken on May 02, 2013, 08:34:23 PM
Hello eaglesway,
Perhaps we are not talking about the same ekklesia? I am referring to an ekklesia as a designated group of like-minded people, as opposed to a church, which dominates its members through a heiarchy of "ministers". More information on this subject is available here:
http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ekklesia&sa=Google+Search (http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ekklesia&sa=Google+Search)
There are some groups that use the word ekklesia, but none seem to be online only. There are also churches that mistakenly use the word ekklesia. Either way, none seem to believe in universal reconciliation.
Now, if you do a Google search for "online ekklesias universal reconciliation", only one seems to come up:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ekklesias+universal+reconciliation+online&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#client=firefox-a&hs=iEJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&oq=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&gs_l=serp.12...8044.13037.1.14462.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1834.0j14.14.0...0.0...1c.1.12.serp.qckGvWayPX0&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.aWM&fp=a53dde7358203403&biw=1920&bih=953 (https://www.google.com/search?q=ekklesias+universal+reconciliation+online&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#client=firefox-a&hs=iEJ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&oq=online+ekklesias+universal+reconciliation&gs_l=serp.12...8044.13037.1.14462.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1834.0j14.14.0...0.0...1c.1.12.serp.qckGvWayPX0&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45960087,d.aWM&fp=a53dde7358203403&biw=1920&bih=953)
Now, you could argue that all of those who believe in universal reconciliation are an ekklesia. But I would counter that it is not stated anywhere on the Tentmaker website or any others that I am aware of (that this is a specific ekklesia). And, more significantly, while most of those who participate here believe in UR, there are many other doctrinal understandings that many would probably disagree with.
The ASSOCIATES ONLINE has a stated lists of beliefs, so there should be no confusion as to where it stands: http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm) Anyone is free to start their own particular ekklesia (or, for that matter, church). The book of Revelation list seven specific ekklesias in existence at that time.
Thanks for asking.
Ken
Wherever two or more of you gather in my name(in me, in my presence) there I am in the midst of you.
IMO, This is the ekklesia. Whether it is online or in a home or in a high school gymansium or in a church building(being in a church building or synagogue does not exclude a group of people from being a part of the ekklesia of Christ or from being a local expression of that ekklesia). Jesus wrote some letters through John to seven ekklesias in Revelations, expressing various degrees of approval and disaproval of them. Calling a group of people a "church" does not exclude them from being the ekklesia or a valid local expression of it.
Anywhere"members gather" and share the union and communion of Jesus the "ekklesia" is manifest.
I still get nervous when anyone says they are "the only ekklesia" of anykind, anywhere and I persoally consider it unwise, and usually not true.
Maybe, the only ekklesia "declaring itself as the only UR ekklessia" would be more accurate :o)
Or maybe, the only "officiously declared" online UR ekklesia would be more accurate.
Terminology is useful as a means of expressing experience/reality. However, it is not reality itself. By the declaration (with which I find no fault except for the "only" part) with which you seem to define yourselves, the "us" you are in fellowship, I have experienced right here on Tentmaker- whether it has been declared, or defined, as such or not really makes no difference to me, because it is the true experience we are all seeking, I hope, over and above(but of course not to the exclusion of) the definition.
The essence of ekklesia is fellowship.
"If we walk i the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin."(1 Jn)
And I do agree, it is all very much a matter of attitude. :o)
Phil 2:1
Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The verses in Phil 2:1-11, for me, define the essence of what we, the "ekklesia" are "called out" to experience together in Him. These verses incorporate the hope of the gospel,- fellowship with God, through fellowship among men, unto fellowship among every sentient being in the universe from the beginning to the end. Glory to God!
Call it church, call it ekklesia, this is a gathering place for those who are searching for the truth of UR and those who are praising our Father and the name of Jesus, worshiping together, praying together. I have never been to a church where I felt more fellowship, kinsmanship. This forum was literally a God-send to me, and I am thankful for all of you who have made such a difference in my life, at a time when things in my local church are not going so well. You all have brought me joy and friendship from Yahweh, and my local church has brought me stress and hurt. May God bless each of you abundantly. :gimmefive:
:gimmefive:
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 05, 2013, 05:08:13 AM
Due to popular request, here is the link to a thought provoking book, "SO you don't want to go to church anymore"
http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf (http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf)
Beautiful book :thumbsup:
Do you think that was really John the Apostle?
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 04, 2013, 03:19:17 PM
Call it church, call it ekklesia, this is a gathering place for those who are searching for the truth of UR and those who are praising our Father and the name of Jesus, worshiping together, praying together. I have never been to a church where I felt more fellowship, kinsmanship. This forum was literally a God-send to me, and I am thankful for all of you who have made such a difference in my life, at a time when things in my local church are not going so well. You all have brought me joy and friendship from Yahweh, and my local church has brought me stress and hurt. May God bless each of you abundantly. :gimmefive:
God bless you Bro Jb :HeartThrob: :iagree: with you
for me the ''Body of Christ'' assembling , is the true Church , the Head and all authority is already in Place Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Gods glory and work in progress concerning the gifts of Gods grace to find your place and remain faithful in them , where two or three are gathered in His name HE IS IN THE MIDST of them !! :dsunny:
Body is many members as far as walking in Love its is what Christ is doing in the earth His strength legs [the feet are those preaching the gospel of Peace with the Same Spirit of ONE GOD one faith one baptism etc ..
Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the
assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but
exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
we are to Lift HIM UP [Christ ] in one another , buiding one another in His Love
just a few more thoughts on the matter at hand [power,authority ]
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own
right hand in the heavenly [places], Strong's G1188 - dexios
1) the right, the right hand
2) metaph.
a) a place of honour or authority
also just to me Ephesians is all about the mystery of the true Church [Body of Christ ] and its is also the first church mentioned as one of the 7 in Rev 2,3 Ephesus same meaning G2181 - Ephesos Ephesus = "permitted"
Amen Rose. That was awesome. :cloud9:
Amen and amen :o)
Thanks, Rose.